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Studios consider Baldur’s Gate 3 anomaly : “It’s Rockstar-level nonsense for scope”

EDMIX

EDMIX

Member
Hibs said:
What the fuck is this bullshit? Fuck you and stop making shitty games.

Even if you don't have the budget or employee numbers, you can still create good written characters, and a story to go along with it. Yet this seems an impossibility these days. Even AAA devs bombing left and right.

The talent in the industry these days is definitely lacking.
Click to expand...

I don't think its enough to say "stop making shitty games" as if THAT is what those teams want to make or something. It simply can be that easy as it sound almost naïve to the issue, its much more complex and had so many moving parts, that i don't think any of us can correct those teams issues with a pep talk and be like "don't make shitty, make good. oh thank god, now we will be successful" lol

Look at Cyberpunk 2077. I can't say talent is lacking based on how bad that game launched, when it might not be the fault of the team, but fault of the publisher. As in, you can have lots of talented developers, but you can't just be like "ok now make an open world with all of these elements, oh yea we are not upping the staff, good luck" and then fucking blame the team as if them being untalented is why it doesn't have a train system or Ai or something, that might be based on the publisher not hiring enough for a project of that scale and magnitude.

You can have a talented team understaffed cause a publisher and the game launch badly.

You can have a talented team FULLY staffed properly and the game launch great.

You can have a team with no talent, understaffed, publisher smokes crack and have a game launch badly.

You can have a team with no talent, publisher staffs them fully, funds them properly and still have a game fail.



I just don't know if its as simple as no talent. How do we know those talented people are in a place that allows them to shine? Really think about this as I think people throw developers under the bus for a lot of shit and some times it may not be the fault of the team themselves.

Any of those combinations could be happening.
 
Tedditalk

Tedditalk

Member
The problem is more money =/= better game, and that high budget games are the only thing Publishers green light nowadays. Smaller, more niche projects like hi fi rush are so rare because their appeal is more limited and thus will not drawn in as many people or make as much money. It does not drawn in as much attention either, so they just focus on making entries in the most profitable and or biggest franchise based on tried and true concepts, and cram enough elements into these games that they appeal to everyone. Been waiting for a dark sides 4 announcement, but that game might not happen because no one wants to fund a series with no large market impact or limited franchising appeal.
 
Hibs

Hibs

Member
EDMIX said:
I don't think its enough to say "stop making shitty games" as if THAT is what those teams want to make or something. It simply can be that easy as it sound almost naïve to the issue, its much more complex and had so many moving parts, that i don't think any of us can correct those teams issues with a pep talk and be like "don't make shitty, make good. oh thank god, now we will be successful" lol

Look at Cyberpunk 2077. I can't say talent is lacking based on how bad that game launched, when it might not be the fault of the team, but fault of the publisher. As in, you can have lots of talented developers, but you can't just be like "ok now make an open world with all of these elements, oh yea we are not upping the staff, good luck" and then fucking blame the team as if them being untalented is why it doesn't have a train system or Ai or something, that might be based on the publisher not hiring enough for a project of that scale and magnitude.

You can have a talented team understaffed cause a publisher and the game launch badly.

You can have a talented team FULLY staffed properly and the game launch great.

You can have a team with no talent, understaffed, publisher smokes crack and have a game launch badly.

You can have a team with no talent, publisher staffs them fully, funds them properly and still have a game fail.



I just don't know if its as simple as no talent. How do we know those talented people are in a place that allows them to shine? Really think about this as I think people throw developers under the bus for a lot of shit and some times it may not be the fault of the team themselves.

Any of those combinations could be happening.
Click to expand...

I was more reacting to that exact tweet, as it just seems asinine to say out in the public. People want quality games, and standards should be expected to rise.

I still feel a lack of talent is playing a big part though. Writing and story is all talent, yet I can count on one hand the number of memorable moments I had in a game concerning those in the last few years, even if it's a buggy mess. Something has shifted in the way games are made these days for sure, and wether it is talent, management, or whatever, it sucks for gamers either way.

I agree with what you are saying for the most part, though.
 
EDMIX

EDMIX

Member
Tedditalk said:
The problem is more money =/= better game,
Click to expand...
Well...it cost money to make big AAA titles. Folks are out here asking for voice acting, 4K, Raytracing, more quest, more content etc as if none of that comes at a cost.

Then ask for less crunch, developers to be paid better and then act shocked that it cost this much for such projects... For such quality, the budget needs to reflect this in the AAA realm.
Tedditalk said:
t high budget games are the only thing Publishers green light nowadays. Smaller, more niche projects like hi fi rush
Click to expand...

Nahhh, its even more weird cause you say this and then bring up a project like Hi Fi Rush. I'd say all major publishers that do AAA big budget IP, also do smaller titles too. This is a horrible myth that kinda needs to stop. Yes, we get big AAA titles, but sir....those titles are so fucking massive, they do not make up the majority of what many major publishers are pushing out or something.

Look at Ubisoft. That list of upcoming AC titles, MOST of those titles are NOT big AAA type titles, its VR smaller title, mobile games, casual games etc. Of the big titles of that 11 game list, 2 of them are AAA ones that we know of, RED and HEXE. So I think its a bit unfair to even trying to make it sound like MOST of the industry is that or something, that simply isn't true from what I've seen.

If anything, you'd have a better argument that most of their money might go to big AAA projects, not merely that they are the only things greet lit.
 
B

Balducci30

Member
I don’t think they’re insulting them I think they’re saying time and resources and support and talent make a project like this possible - which many lower level games don’t have the ability to do. They’re either working with a shitty engine, under shitty management, with a unproven ip, without the time and manpower to polish and expand due to studio pressure.

This game was in early access for like 3 years. It’s been developed for 6. TOTK had a whole year of polish and was built directly on top of a previous game. I just don’t think stars align for games to be at this level very often is what they are saying
 
Guilty_AI

Guilty_AI

Member
Balducci30 said:
I don’t think they’re insulting them I think they’re saying time and resources and support and talent make a project like this possible - which many lower level games don’t have the ability to do. They’re either working with a shitty engine, under shitty management, with a unproven ip, without the time and manpower to polish and expand due to studio pressure.

This game was in early access for like 3 years. It’s been developed for 6. TOTK had a whole year of polish and was built directly on top of a previous game. I just don’t think stars align for games to be at this level very often is what they are saying
Click to expand...
That would be true for a lot of devs. Problem is some of the people chiming in here work under studios that do very much have the stars aligned for them.

Imagine a guy who worked on Diablo 4 talking about needing decades of game feeding into a product... when he worked on Diablo 4.
Or a guy who works at Obsidian talking about needing foundations and funding to achieve a game like this... Obsidian that isn't lacking in foundation from their previous titles... that has Microsoft funding.

The whole problem is that they talk about such conditions as if they don't very much meet all those same criteria.
 
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M

Moneal

Member
Balducci30 said:
I don’t think they’re insulting them I think they’re saying time and resources and support and talent make a project like this possible - which many lower level games don’t have the ability to do. They’re either working with a shitty engine, under shitty management, with a unproven ip, without the time and manpower to polish and expand due to studio pressure.

This game was in early access for like 3 years. It’s been developed for 6. TOTK had a whole year of polish and was built directly on top of a previous game. I just don’t think stars align for games to be at this level very often is what they are saying
Click to expand...
Sorry, but devs do have to deal with that regardless of the resources and support their teams get. Its how the world works. If customers expect a certain level of output and you can't deliver you either adapt or die.

No one is saying indie devs have to put out a polished, deep, AAA style graphic game. Just look at games like vampire survivor and halls of torment. Both are considered good but are low budget graphics games. If a AAA RPG studio like Blizzard or Obsidian with MS money wants to be taken seriously they better be pushing to out do Larian. Do they have to hit that mark? No, but they should be trying.
 
Tedditalk

Tedditalk

Member
EDMIX said:
Well...it cost money to make big AAA titles. Folks are out here asking for voice acting, 4K, Raytracing, more quest, more content etc as if none of that comes at a cost.

Then ask for less crunch, developers to be paid better and then act shocked that it cost this much for such projects... For such quality, the budget needs to reflect this in the AAA realm.
Click to expand...

I am aware of that. Most of that is not necessary for a good game. See Totk for proof of this.

EDMIX said:
Nahhh, its even more weird cause you say this and then bring up a project like Hi Fi Rush. I'd say all major publishers that do AAA big budget IP, also do smaller titles too. This is a horrible myth that kinda needs to stop. Yes, we get big AAA titles, but sir....those titles are so fucking massive, they do not make up the majority of what many major publishers are pushing out or something.

Look at Ubisoft. That list of upcoming AC titles, MOST of those titles are NOT big AAA type titles, its VR smaller title, mobile games, casual games etc. Of the big titles of that 11 game list, 2 of them are AAA ones that we know of, RED and HEXE. So I think its a bit unfair to even trying to make it sound like MOST of the industry is that or something, that simply isn't true from what I've seen.

If anything, you'd have a better argument that most of their money might go to big AAA projects, not merely that they are the only things greet lit.
Click to expand...

Outside of Ubisoft, who else really fit this bill? Nintendo make smaller games. Many AA and other studios do. But the studios like Santa Monica, guerilla, bungie, standard triple A studios, not really. Not too many focused experiences anymore from big names. There was a good deep dive into this that asmongold covered on one of his video, but did not post because people often do not like the dude.
 
peish

peish

Member
should i buy bg3 early access? i am about done with f16, comments to follow.

i can have a week to play with early access until official release, worth my time or better spent elsewhere? any bonus for playing early access?
 
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EDMIX

EDMIX

Member
Tedditalk said:
Outside of Ubisoft, who else really fit this bill? Nintendo make smaller games. Many AA and other studios do. But the studios like Santa Monica, gueril
Click to expand...

yea that doesn't make sense.

Ubisoft, Nintendo etc are publishers, Sony Santa Monica, GG etc are not. So if you mean Sony as a publisher....yes, they make smaller titles too like Nintendo and Ubisoft. Look at the whole VR stuff they have or even them making Team Asobi larger (the team that did Astro Bot).
 
L

Leo9

Member
Renoir

Renoir

Member
So COD don't have resources? Halo? Destiny?Madden? Fifa? Ass creed.These games studios let their brand rot . Put out a shit product you going to deal with the consequences. Even a gamers fave like CD project learn that lesson. It's finally getting through gamers head to teach these studio a lesson with their wallet.

They want to keep trying to appeal to the board, and investors, journalist who don't even play games. Ok go right ahead. See how that worked out...

Finally. They are seeing the writing on the wall.
 
struggler_guts

struggler_guts

Member
peish said:
should i buy bg3 early access? i am about done with f16, comments to follow.

i can have a week to play with early access until official release, worth my time or better spent elsewhere? any bonus for playing early access?
Click to expand...
Buying it now upgrades you to deluxe version, but yeah dont play until launch. The current playable build is missing a ton of stuff that will be there day 1 still
 
B

Balducci30

Member
Guilty_AI said:
That would be true for a lot of devs. Problem is some of the people chiming in here work under studios that do very much have the stars aligned for them.

Imagine a guy who worked on Diablo 4 talking about needing decades of game feeding into a product... when he worked on Diablo 4.
Or a guy who works at Obsidian talking about needing foundations and funding to achieve a game like this... Obsidian that isn't lacking in foundation from their previous titles... that has Microsoft funding.

The whole problem is that they talk about such conditions as if they don't very much meet all those same criteria.
Click to expand...
I do believe baldurs gate is a bit of a unique franchise comparatively tho - it isn’t Diablo 4, which has a more contemporary audience at this point - I feel like executives would get much more involved in that title vs Baldurs Gate. Cus that last baldurs gate was from what like 20 years ago? Which is I think part of what they’re saying. That often when they have the resources and time - they aren’t given the creative freedom to actually do something like this? That’s at least how I’m interpreting
 
amigastar

amigastar

Member
niilokin said:
Hard work and building solid foundations for your games pays off. Larian represents the playfulness and creativity that should be cultivated and cherished and not let go when you "grow up". Problem with alot of game developers is that they have grown up and lost that child like spark.
Click to expand...
Very true, they are passionate and playful and you can tell. Question is how long can they be like this, who knows maybe their next project will loose those qualities?
 
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klosos

klosos

Member
All i am getting from this is that an RPG might raise the bar for the industry , and other studios like Obsidian are a bit annoyed that they might have to do that , Maybe games like Outer Worlds will be shown up for the bang average game that it was.

About time this happens aswell , just as IMO Witcher 3 pushed the standard of Open world , Which games made by Ubisoft couldnt compete with hopefully BG3 will do it to classic RPGs as well
 
Spaceman292

Spaceman292

Banned
EDMIX said:
I don't think its enough to say "stop making shitty games" as if THAT is what those teams want to make or something. It simply can be that easy as it sound almost naïve to the issue, its much more complex and had so many moving parts, that i don't think any of us can correct those teams issues with a pep talk and be like "don't make shitty, make good. oh thank god, now we will be successful" lol

Look at Cyberpunk 2077. I can't say talent is lacking based on how bad that game launched, when it might not be the fault of the team, but fault of the publisher. As in, you can have lots of talented developers, but you can't just be like "ok now make an open world with all of these elements, oh yea we are not upping the staff, good luck" and then fucking blame the team as if them being untalented is why it doesn't have a train system or Ai or something, that might be based on the publisher not hiring enough for a project of that scale and magnitude.

You can have a talented team understaffed cause a publisher and the game launch badly.

You can have a talented team FULLY staffed properly and the game launch great.

You can have a team with no talent, understaffed, publisher smokes crack and have a game launch badly.

You can have a team with no talent, publisher staffs them fully, funds them properly and still have a game fail.



I just don't know if its as simple as no talent. How do we know those talented people are in a place that allows them to shine? Really think about this as I think people throw developers under the bus for a lot of shit and some times it may not be the fault of the team themselves.

Any of those combinations could be happening.
Click to expand...
True. It seems like there are a few unspoken layers of meaning under these tweets. 'Larian is lucky because they're allowed to make the game they WANT to make, as opposed to making compromises with some brainless moneymen publishers.'
 
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Wildebeest

Wildebeest

Member
Spaceman292 said:
True. It seems like there are a few unspoken layers of meaning under these tweets. 'Larian is lucky because they're allowed to make the game they WANT to make, as opposed to making compromises with some brainless moneymen publishers.'
Click to expand...
Surely they had to pitch to Hasbro/WotC and have to get approval from them to do many things with their IP.
 
Kaachan

Kaachan

Member
This is the most confusing complaint I've ever heard but then again it's Twitter so what else to expect

Just what the fuck is the problem exactly?
 
KXVXII9X

KXVXII9X

Member
First Zelda TotK, now Baldur's Gate 3. These kinds of games should be something to strive towards. I think the AAA risk-adverse gaming industry is over reliant on graphical fidelity and got so far behind pushing game design. (I don't want to hear about how indies are revolutionizing gaming because they are just as guilty). I remember the PS3/Xbox 360/Wii generation there were so many cool ways Dev's were pushing the envelope in what they could do. There is a reason Immersive Sims kind of games aren't being made as much despite being less shallow. It takes a lot more work and you can't always sell the game through graphics. If BG3 is anything like DoS2, people will be surprised with the amount of freedom the game allows you. It takes away a lot of the suffocating restraints many games place on you.
 
Fuz

Fuz

Banned
Hibs said:
you can still create good written characters, and a story to go along with it.
Click to expand...
Not when your first priority is diversity and virtue signaling.
07wnr.gif
 
Fuz

Fuz

Banned
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EDMIX

EDMIX

Member
Fuz said:


www.nme.com

‘Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla’ now includes XP Boost microtransactions

Ubisoft has introduced XP Boost microtransactions into 'Assassin's Creed: Valhalla' a month after the open-world game was released.
www.nme.com www.nme.com

You're not hype. You might be hyped.
Click to expand...


Yea, I mean cash grab as in some rushed, shoddy development or something.

Not your feelings on DLC, mtx etc lol

Nothing in those AC titles even comes close to that term, might as well fucking call anything a cash grab using such odd logic

Callisto Protocol, CASH GRAB has animation DLC
Witcher 3, CASH GRAB, has CUT CONTENT sold back to the consumer, disguised as an "expansion" aka...CASH GRAB!
Forza Horizon 4....CASH GRAB, its really just expensive DLC for Forza Horizon 3

Might as well fucking call anything that lol
 
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Fuz

Fuz

Banned
Guilty_AI said:
Imagine a guy who worked on Diablo 4 talking about needing decades of game feeding into a product... when he worked on Diablo 4.
Or a guy who works at Obsidian talking about needing foundations and funding to achieve a game like this... Obsidian that isn't lacking in foundation from their previous titles... that has Microsoft funding.
Click to expand...
I mean, Obsidian can be considered kind of an underdog.
But the guy that worked on Diablo 4 is a whole new level of clown.
 
Roman Empire

Roman Empire

Member
Imagine being offended by your peers delivering good content instead of the mindless grindfest games are these days. BD3 deserves all the success it is coming to it. Show 'em!
 
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