SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Damn, I’ll be jumping on any $1 promos when this hits.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Team Ninja Explains Why They Chose to Launch Wo Long Fallen Dynasty Day One on Game Pass
- Thread starter The_Mike
- Start date
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Well, let's be honest here: Does anyone actually believe its going to increase sales for multi-platform titles? Either in the short or long term?
And if so, what's the rationale for that thinking, because I don't see it myself.
I'm nobody
Member
Win for everyone is it on ps plus I don't play these types of games
Also what's wrong with demos
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Yes it will, since sales = revenue.
KingT731
Member
KT isn't a big publisher for some of those games 50-100K sales on Xbox is better than none and they already go to PC so not difficult ports.
anthony2690
Banned
I am still genuinely surprised Nioh never came to Xbox, as it seemed like a big seller for Koei Tecmo & it doesn't seem like Sony paid anything to make it exclusive either.
& I'm sure it landed on pc too right? I could be wrong though.
Roxkis_ii
Member
If you have to pay people to participate in your service to make it worth it to them, isn't that a bad look on your service?
As a PS gamer, I feel dumb paying full price for something that's on game pass. Grants on the devs for getting their bag, but I feel like it cheapens the game.
KingT731
Member
Nioh was funded by Sony and published by Sony on consoles outside of Japan which is pretty standard fare as it's not overly expensive to self publish at home.
Also Nioh was originally intended for release on PS3. Here's the original trialer:
Last edited:
anthony2690
Banned
Ah okay, I was fully unaware off that tbh!
Ni Oh2 is a game I really wanted to play, luckily I can play fallen dynasty, what looks to be fairly similar. (I enjoyed the demo, so hopefully I really enjoy the full game)
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Look, I've got both PS5 and Series S. What do you think I'm going to do?
I'll join Gamepass for a month and wait for it to come on sale on PS5 a few months down the line *IF* I decide I care enough. Whereas were the GP option not available, I'd probably buy it day#1.
Bear in mind that given I prefer the Playstation controller for this sort of game, so by switching platform Its likely going to add an extra complication to enjoying the game, further discouraging me from buying in.
Last edited:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yes.
Because there is research that shows it. They spent 50% more than non subscribers.
How these kind of posts are allowed in every single game pass thread is always surprising/disappointing.
Last edited:
Pedro Motta
Member
Those stats are sooo sketchy it hurts.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Good for you. The devs got their money from Microsoft already so they don't really care.
Chukhopops
Member
It’s always the same people anyway, with the same non-arguments.
Nobody pays anything for GP and nobody spends anything outside of GP subs. MS made 16.28bn USD in gaming revenue in 2021 just from the Pringles partnership and 1$ GP trials.
KingT731
Member
Okay not even being funny but these stats are Hella misleading. Using percentage based data without disclosing the baseline is very dodgy. If you're subbed to GP you still have to buy games and dlc that isn't in the service so by default you spend more...
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yeah, subscribers get a near unanimous 20% discount on everything along with a lot of unique sales and discounts on in-game content like DLCs, it encourages buying more and people reportedly spend 50% more compared to the ones who aren't subscribers.
Hence the tweet/research/comment saying the same.
Yep, they get the upfront deal and the added bonus of a lot more eyes on their game which will result in more people purchasing additional content or the game to keep permanently than there would have been before.
Last edited:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Err, sorry but what that slide shows is inconclusive.
Let's go point-by-point:
* Subscribers play 40% more games after joining: Note "play" not buy, and all that's saying is rather than 2 games played over some arbitrary time-frame turns into just under 3. The extent of play-time for the "additional" title is not stated.
* Subscribers spend 50% more: More than whom? An average casual user, a person who pays the additional premium for GP (the cost of which may or may not be factored into that increased spend), its pretty vague. Moreover the material value of this really depends on how much the user was spending prior to joining the service. If they were buying 4 games a year previously then its a solid increase, but below that -and the fact is the overwhelming majority of users are in this category- its less impressive.
* Games on Average see 8.3x lift in players. Presumably this is total number of users who at least download the title, which is pretty meaningless as there's little impetus not to download if access is part of a package! Its not a particularly informative stat as it doesn't indicate anything more than a minimum level of interest.
* 3.5 lift in players for big publishers day#1/15x for Indies, Day #1. I think the disparity here is very telling because on the face of it, why should indies benefit so much more statistically if not for the fact that the total number of downloads is in fact fairly constant irrespective of product type. i.e. Indies generally sell way lower day #1 than major publisher offerings, so the effect is basically to bring up everyone's download tally to roughly comparable numbers. Which indicates to me that a certain percentage of GP subscribers will *always* download new monthly spotlighted titles, presumably more out of habit or curiosity than particular interest and enthusiasm.
*Indies see triple-digit revenue growth: This the strongest piece of evidence but again its deliberately a little vague. Triple digit simply means greater than 100%, and there's no specification as to a what point along the release cycle this increase is tabulated. Indies -particularly on console- tend to fall into obscurity pretty shortly after launch, so any sort of placement is likely to trigger a significant uptick in sales be it on GP or as part of a regular sales promotion. Mainly because the number of monthly sales is going to be miniscule by that point!
Look the bottom line is simply to look at what's NOT being claimed on these slides. Variance in unit sales are not mentioned once, either positive or negative.
And no. Sales are not revenue. They are an element of revenue, and given the number and potential of revenue streams is dependent on product type (initial buy-in cost, presence of post-sale mtx etc.), and even whether the initial acquisition premium onto GP is factored in... Its simply not convincing based on that evidence, especially in respect of multi-platform offerings where MS are not certain to be fully informed about sales outside of their ecosystem.
That being said, if I was Sony, the presence of a title day#1 on GP would impact my sales projections and hence the amount of promotional backing offered!
Last edited:
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
There is never another reason lol.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Non subscribers on average.
Allow me to present an average GAF game pass thread tableau.
* Thread gets posted *
User 1: lol show us the numbers !
User 2: *shows numbers*
User 1: I don't believe you.gif
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Black Myth Wukong is not Wo Long Fallen Dynasty.
recma12
Member
This is a very good point and will become an issue for MS in the future.
I did the 3yr conversion thing when I got my XSX, so I have another year left before I have to pay the real price.
Despite GPU being such amazing value, I doubt I will resub for more than 3months at a time at 15€ a month.
I also own a Switch and PS5, I guess I will get GPU for 3 months every year, play all the games I like and fuck off.
Disney+ and HBO switched to weekly releases to combat the "sign-up, bingewatch, fuck off" users, I'm really not sure what MS can do to stop that.
In video games, 90% of the big games release in Fall or Spring, so cancelling Gamepass from April to September seems logical.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Don't believe the numbers, but absolutely believe the numbers that aren't there. Big brain time.Non subscribers on average.
Allow me to present an average GAF game pass thread tableau.
* Thread gets posted *
User 1: lol show us the numbers !
User 2: *shows numbers*
User 1: I don't believe you.gif
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I think one way to combat that would be to tie Gamepass goodies to the big GaaS games like CoD (or Halo once it is resurrected). They're already gonna do it with League of Legends and Valorant. Gamepass runs out? You lose most of your LoL champions, for example.
KingT731
Member
But like the slide says compared to "Non Subscribers" which doesn't tell you how much non subscribers spend at all. Are those non subs people who were just playing Apex/Fortnite or the person who only buy 2 games a year? Context is very important and within the info provided there isn't any. It could be very impressive or not at all but as i just said without context there's no telling.
Last edited:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Non subscribers on average.
Allow me to present an average GAF game pass thread tableau.
* Thread gets posted *
User 1: lol show us the numbers !
User 2: *shows numbers*
User 1: I don't believe you.gif
My analysis is sound. You want to rebut it, bring some actual counterpoints to the discussion. I welcome polite, reasoned debate on the subject.
LOL emoji's don't cut it contrary to what some people seem to think.
I can understand why many publishers/developers would choose to opt-in and see how it goes for their product on the simple basis of risk-mitigation. A bird-in-the-hand being worth two in the bush and so forth. BUT, that doesn't address my issues with the premise.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The context is that these are comparisons made to non subscribers, that's usually how most services do. No service reveals the kind of nuances per-user detail that you're asking for. We only get averages.
But then again we also have a solid numerical figure from their YoY earnings report. We know game pass earns roughly $180 million monthly from subscriptions.
The last known figure as of Jan 2021 was 25m subscribers and it may be at or beyond 30m right now. So that's a lot of users getting eyes on games like Wo Long than wouldn't without it being on game pass day 1. I think that's what MS and Team Ninja are more concerned with than revenue breakdowns.
I'm gonna be real bummed if they stop the Gold > GPU conversion before my next renewal period lol.
I'm currently upped till 2025 so I've got a while to wait for that tho.
Last edited:
KingT731
Member
Then you're not understanding at all. There's not even an average presented which is what the data would be based on. I'm not saying the numbers are bad just, as they're presented, misleading.
Also as for eyes on the game...there's literally a free demo out. That is
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This is where the slides are from, they compare game pass subscribers to "look alike" users, users who also have a high tendency to spend, the research is using that data point, not the kind of users who only buy 1 game a year or so. There's no exact numerical average spent on how much a user spends but I don't think you get those exact kind of figures from any company.
Relevant section timestamped below:
Last edited:
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
I've played and completed these games so far this year :
1. Crackdown 3
2. Outriders
3. Serious Sam 4
4. Back 4 blood
5. Zombie army trilogy *
6. Rage 2
7. Zombie army 4 dead war
8. Nier automata
9. Doom (x360)
10. Doom 2(x360)
11. Greedfall
12. Battlefield bad company
13. Battlefield bad company 2
14. Doom 64
15. Man eater
16. Minecraft dungeons
17. Scarlet nexus
18. Aliens: fireteam elite
19. Dantes inferno
20. Sniper elite 5
21. Crysis
22. Crysis 2
23. Crysis 3
24. Donut County
25. Raji
26. Hades
27. Into the pit
28. Titanfall 2 *
29. Watch dogs *
30. Max Payne 3 *
31. Sleeping dogs *
32. Dead Island *
Games marked with * was games I already had. There's still plenty of games I'm giving a shot but also got a great backllg
Or maybe, just maybe, people who has GP doesn't buy 70 euro games every or every second month, and just plays whatever seems interesting and available on GP? And buys heavily discounted games?
You have to pay for dlc whether you have GP or not anyway. I don't remember when I last bought dlc though they are often not necessary imo.
Last edited:
GHG
Member
This doesn't need an explanation, they were offered an amount of money that they felt would exceed initial sales on Xbox so took it. Anything else is waffle.
If you want people to try the game then you can do a trial or a demo (the latter of which they've already done).
Every time we have one of these threads we have people talking about how less money entering the industry from the consumer side is a good thing. It's not and the chickens will come home to roost eventually.
If you want people to try the game then you can do a trial or a demo (the latter of which they've already done).
Every time we have one of these threads we have people talking about how less money entering the industry from the consumer side is a good thing. It's not and the chickens will come home to roost eventually.
Last edited:
onnextflix5
Member
Why, are we not allowed have a opinion on how bad we think Xbox and game pass is.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Of course this is the only answer, but you see alot of people in GP related threads saying only bad games comes to GP, or that the poor devs earn literally nothing on it.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Isn't he allowed to answer your question?
Zathalus
Member
Well that is just objectively false on both fronts. There have been plenty of great games released over the past year and if devs didn't earn any money on it, word would get around and nobody would consider it a option.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I think it's not that simple, the difference is between a one-time upfront model (sales) and a monthly recurring payment model (subs). The upfront model has a bigger pay off on the off set but the sustained subscription model has a slower but a much longer tail.
It's less opinion and more blatant bad faith discussion/trolling when the same couple of usernames use the same comments every time one of these threads is made.
Last edited:
Punished Miku
Gold Member
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
one does not exclude the other
GHG
Member
1) They got money that exceeds Xbox sales. Chicken and waffles, mic drop.
2) Less money entering the industry is terrible and angry chickens will roost in your house soon, and they have a taste for human blood.
Thanks for twisting my words.
I was quite clear in my statement:
"less money entering the industry from the consumer side"
Right now the consumer is being subsidised - that's a good thing for those who don't care about ownership or can only afford the monthly subscription as it's priced at the moment. However if overall consumer spend continues trending downwards then money flow issues will arise.
The money that is being given to the publishers/developers to put these games on subscription services doesn't get created out of thin air.
The only way this all works is if the money flowing in to monthly subscriptions increases enough to offset the decreases in all other areas of spending.
See above.
Last edited:
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Yeah, that's true. I wasn't following what you were saying the first time I guess.
I just think that the potential is easily there for more money, not less. Nearly everything is switching to subs for this reason. If you can get casual gamers to give you $15 a month, that adds up to more than they were spending annually previously. For hardcore users that used to buy lots of games, I suspect that many of them are still buying games after they leave Gamepass as well. I know I am. Anything I liked goes on my wishlist.
I'm not seeing the doom and gloom just yet. When I started gaming it cost quarters in the arcade. Monetization styles change.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I agree with you, a more healthier sub environment and user base means it'll become easier to offset development costs on it fully. Game Pass is currently earning upwards of $180m a month in revenues at roughly 25m subscribers. It's a number that will naturally increase with an increase in the install base. We're not all the way there, hence we don't get exclusive sub service games and they all sell at retail as well.
But the model is definitely a very viable window in the future, hence both Sony and MS are doing it. I won't be surprised if Nintendo has a more robust entry into it in their next console generation.
Last edited:
Gudji
Member
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
marjo
Member
Why are we not allowed to have an opinion on how idiotic we think your posts are?
Amiga
Member
GP and PS+E are good deals to interduce players to unconventional franchises. developers get plenty of money upfront and million$ more worth in marketing value. Yakuza got big after launching on GP and is now finally mainstream. leading to rise in value of older Yakuza games. So Yo Long could lead to more players discovering NiOh and becoming fans of Team Ninja.
Roman Empire
Member
Well. I was about getting this on launch anyways. So now I'm getting it through GP day one? Nice.
DonJorginho
Banned
praise to Turkey vpns!