Serious business right here, I think he knows its his issue with the game. Lighten up.
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The Division: Sponge or not to Sponge
- Thread starter Cabbagehead
- Start date
Serious business right here, I think he knows its his issue with the game. Lighten up.
poodaddy
Member
lol this is me to a t. I thought it was just another generic shooter, kind of in the vain of a Homefront or some other nonsense. I was wondering why the whole world was so stoked for it when it seemed so bland to me, but now that I know it's an RPG I'm actually super intrigued.
GHG
Member
Because "immersion".
I also wonder if these same people complain when their character doesn't die from a single shot to the head from the AI because it breaks immersion.
E3 2013 trailer totally made their message clear. It said:
Online | Open World | RPG.
Not even there they used the word "shooter".
And already in the this very first trailer they showed the damage numbers flying around and the enemies didn't die with 1 shot.
Koutsoubas
Member
Is it? If we look at other games they all have at least Rocket Launchers and big Machine Guns for rapid firepower. Even plain online shooters have them!
This isn't other games. It's The Division.
A few words vs a 7 minute long trailer of a game that looks very similar to almost any shooter these days.
It's pretty obvious most people are more likely to remember.
Koutsoubas
Member
Oh, we wont play this game. Yes its the division, so why not have the humans fly? Lets make it ALL different!
Because small pox killed the winged ones.
Koutsoubas
Member
There are LMG in the game. No RPG (well in the beta) but there is a sticky bomb skill, grenades of all kind and rolling mines. Things go boom in the game!
Koutsoubas
Member
Yes you are right about the LMGs. Im just not impressed from the ''Peak'' firepower. When you are in a pinch, it's good to have something Big to bail you out. The session escalates quickly and you get more satisfaction(in general terms).
What can I say? I like the adrenaline from a high stakes encounter
It bugs me when people can't accept a modern day game unless it has quick kill times. It's like those games are only for aliens or robots or space marines. I enjoy RPGs and I enjoy current settings. Let me have both if I want.
Doesn't even apply to just RPGs. People have no problem with Gears but take the same mechanics and put it on Nathan Drake and we get sponge complaints. I'm tired of everything having to be sci-fi.
Doesn't even apply to just RPGs. People have no problem with Gears but take the same mechanics and put it on Nathan Drake and we get sponge complaints. I'm tired of everything having to be sci-fi.
Do we even know what the end game skills do?
I never looked it up, maybe there is something that fits your style.
Koutsoubas
Member
I saw the IGN-First video and there is nothing like I described. Sure some skills are nice but nothing with massive damage. I dont know if the shooting with AKs and Sticky bombs will become repetitive and dull.
Ive never played a game like that before so time will tell on this one
paperspace
Member
If the beta is anything to by, I'd certainly not call it an RPG. It's Gears of War with 2 RPG elements at best.
It could still be a great game ... I just wouldn't call it an RPG.
It could still be a great game ... I just wouldn't call it an RPG.
You mean the beta that restricted almost every RPG element in the game? Seems like a reasonable conclusion.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Yeah, the part where you make your own character, level up and pick new skills and hunt for better gear is soooo Gears.
Can't believe I didn't see the resemblance earlier.
Signor Rossi
Banned
I played the beta. It's not a RPG. It' a third-person cover shooter.
This thread is ridiculous.
Doesn't asking for "panic button" contradict liking high stakes encounters that make adrenaline run?
Destiny has 2 "panic buttons" / class, super ability and heavy weapon, and that game lacks in high stakes encounters imo. If you got into remotely sticky situation you just pop one or both of those and win automatically 9 out of 10 times. In Taken King I never bothered to use heavy weapons that much because power boost from them feels lacking, but then anything does after Godhorn.
And I have done 100% in PvE content of Destiny: TTK.
All that said Division will have 1 signature skill / specialization and you can have 1 signature skill active. That is intended to be your "super skill / panic button" that can swing outcome of encounter into your favor, e.g. Stamina trees signature skill revives downed players, heals and over heals other players. Stuff like that can be and is game changers during sticky encounter.
Edit: On topic of thread itself. I put 30+ hours into the beta and didn't really encounter this so called bullet sponge. Normal enemies dropped in few seconds where elites and bosses took quite a bit longer, but nothing like Strike bosses in Destiny. When being at same gear level as content that you are doing. Shit got so out of hand when I was stacked in purple gear, enemies did no damage to me while I rekt them in just few hits.
Koutsoubas
Member
Hah, you are too hard! Yes I also believe that this is an RPG, but some people are still fooled by the whole gun through everything aspect!
Could you describe what a RPG is to you?
It's clearly a shooter with RPG features all over the game, you'd be dense to not notice it.
Saying it's not an RPG is even more ridiculous. Please tell what on the RPG checklist doesn't it mark off?
I get the feeling criticisms about bullet sponge enemies are less about firefights taking too long and more about the basic gameplay of the firefights being too shallow to justify taking that long. When you look at stuff like Unreal Tournament, the time between kills in a duel between two players is forever by modern standards, but it's not much of an issue because the whole time they're playing a cat-and-mouse game with each other while simultaneously fighting to control the pickups on the map.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
The devs call it an RPG, the people who play it call it an RPG, and the game is filled with RPG features, and the very thread we are in is complaining that it is NOT a shooter.
And it's somehow not an RPG because you say so?
Yeah, it's this thread that's ridiculous. Clearly.
Classic Junior
I understand mods don't like it, but this seems more like a shitpost more than anything
Koutsoubas
Member
Τhis is a well-constructed answer! Thats what I like here, some people know what they re talking about! So, yes I really liked Destiny's system. Needless to say in many occasions I couldnt get out of a sticky situation even with a Rocket Launcher because of the ammo limitations.
I really liked that I had the option for high burst damage, but when you are surrounded by many high-level minions either in Destiny or Division nothing can save you. Take the Raids for example, shit gets serious and even with infinite ammo you cannot escape! Even more so, when you encounter a Boss. No way your Assault Rifle can bring him down! And by extension, because the Division is an RPG, how are we going to fight bosses? Only with an LMG?
So, I would really like to have access in such weaponery and decide for myself how im gonna use it in a battle!
don't do that, trying to pull the "you're a junior comment" will get you juniored for a WHILE, believe me, i've been there
Dont you think not having the option of rocket your way out or massive nukes adds a more tactical layer?
You need to plan ahead, have abilities that helps both you and the team out as a whole to survive.
You cant just rush in and 'meh' the encounters as much since you could rocket everything to oblivion and back.
these post nailed it. People are so biased. "we want a realistic game" but, how realistic? Aesthetic wise? Game-play wise, both? If a game is too real, the people will say: "WHAT? One hit and I'm bleeding out? This game punish the player for the sake of it, it's harder than bloodborne and dark souls combine" "WTF my character just had a cut and have tetanus it will die if I don't get an antibiotic in 3 days real time"
People want video games or simulators. I don't know.
Koutsoubas
Member
No, but since this is an RPG, I would like to have the ability to Spec for heavy gear. Same as to have the ability to spec for stealth, for run and gun etc
Thats the point of an RPG, to give you the option to play it how you like it!
I think the real issue here is that the op provides an unwanted explanation of the game that will hopefully deter people from writing it off.
It won't work thou, and that's the problem.
People will base their purchase on whether they think the game is fun or not more than asking themselves what genre the game falls upon. Shooting 5 clips into a dude without him going down is not fun, I don't care if it's a puzzle game.
And it's a shooter. It might be a shooter with rpg elements but if what you do is mostly shooting then it's a shooter. Destiny is known as an FPS because that's what it is, this will be known as a tps because that's what it is.
It won't work thou, and that's the problem.
People will base their purchase on whether they think the game is fun or not more than asking themselves what genre the game falls upon. Shooting 5 clips into a dude without him going down is not fun, I don't care if it's a puzzle game.
And it's a shooter. It might be a shooter with rpg elements but if what you do is mostly shooting then it's a shooter. Destiny is known as an FPS because that's what it is, this will be known as a tps because that's what it is.
To a certain degree.
I dont see how peacekeepers use RPGs and GLs to keep civil order.
The furthest I'd see that do is perhaps some Gas GL, but thats about it.
After all we are in a city and trying to protect the civilians and restore order/find out whos behind it, not trying to level the entire thing.
Koutsoubas
Member
Αnd that's exactly why their Genre doesnt suit with the setting. New York is a bad setting for the RPG aspect of their game. Also they are limited in damage, because you only try to kill people, so 1 shot in the head is enough to kill him. Ok maybe 2 because it's a game, but 6?? Nope thats just wrong. Its a mortal contadiction, game-breaking for many people!
Bosses-wise, it's really wrong! How can you fight Boss-humans? They will still die with a shot on the head! Abilities-wise? They are humans in the near future, nothing fancy should exist, and bacause of that, the RPG-element becomes really restricted.
Sorry for rambling but their intentions contradict their actual desicions. Dont get me wrong, I enjoyed the beta, I even wrote a positive article on it, but I have to point out the negatives!
UnemployedVillain
Member
These seem like personal problems. There is no bad setting for an RPG. You're just conditioned to having them in the same fantasy settings over and over that one being placed in a realistic one seems weird to you. The same with firearms as weapons. Have you played the Mass Effect games? Singular shots don't kill humanoid enemies yet people don't ever complain.
I have some issues with the beta looking a bit generic as far as some things go, but I applaud them for trying an RPG in a unique setting.
I don't want to be a dick but it sounds like the game and its setting just went over your head.
Having human vs human beating each other 50 times with giant swords is OK.
Having humans vs aliens shooting each other a million times is also OK, cause cheap cop-out alien shields and all that, but wait? Wouldn't this mean that you would also have much more powerful weapons that just penetrate the shit out of it?
But this game setting works really well with that they set out to do.
A modern day RPG in a "apocalyptic" New York.
Like i don't know what you want, it seems you keep arguing this should be a different game, but its not and it wont be.
So what is Diablo 3? I always play Demon Hunter, so its a top down shooter, as well, I only shoot. Wife plays Barbarian though, its hack and slash then?
Demon Hunter : Shooter
Witch Doctor : Shooter
Wizard : Shooter
Barbarian : Hack and Slash, oh wait he can shoot too : Shooter
So mostly shooting, Diablo 3 is not an action RPG, its a top down shooter with some RPG elements.
Come on man.
Only for some people though. I have no issues with them handling it the way they are and in fact I found it really refreshing and enjoyable. I mean, I don't mean to sound rude, but if folks don't like the way they are handling the RPG aspects with this game, just go play something else that suits your tastes. Not every game has to be the way you want it to be. Plenty of room for different types.
Tezzeractor
Member
RPG Shooters like Borderlands and Destiny are turn offs for me, and it's not because of "realism" or whatever. I just find cover shooter combat to be tiresome enough as it is, and with an extended health bar on enemies it just takes more time to get it over with. I don't mind how long it takes to defeat enemies in turn-based RPGs, action RPGs or tactical RPGs because I think the combat in those games is tuned for it. The only FPSs I can think of where fighting enemies with higher health feels satisfying are ones with dodging or ones with fast paced movement, such as Doom or Metroid Prime. Of course, neither of these are RPGs, but the combat does feel tuned for the kind health the enemies have. Cover shooters I do not think are suited for it.
I really enjoyed the Division beta, but for me the only interesting thing about the game was the Dark Zone. The human players are fun to fight, and none of them felt particularly spongy to me. The AI enemies on the other hand felt like a chore to deal with, especially on the harder difficulty. From what I played, they didn't seem to behave any differently with higher difficulty, so it just took longer to finish them off. That being said, I didn't have access to a lot of features, and I'm still interested in playing the full game. The single player might not be as bad as I found it to be.
I really enjoyed the Division beta, but for me the only interesting thing about the game was the Dark Zone. The human players are fun to fight, and none of them felt particularly spongy to me. The AI enemies on the other hand felt like a chore to deal with, especially on the harder difficulty. From what I played, they didn't seem to behave any differently with higher difficulty, so it just took longer to finish them off. That being said, I didn't have access to a lot of features, and I'm still interested in playing the full game. The single player might not be as bad as I found it to be.
Eh? It's like Mass Effect, not Gears.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Dosn't mean that hit reaction has to be shit.
Dark Souls is an RPG, would you think it has shitty reaction or that normal enemies takes 200 hits to be killed?
Destiny had absolutely nothing you couldn't level with few Gjallarhorn shots, outside of raid bosses. That was ultimate panic button that could hold up to 7 rockets, it was just insanely OP weapon to have. In TTK that role is more or less served by, a lot weaker, raid HMG because of its accuracy for sustained DPS. All classes have supers that also increase your survivability a lots and serve as very powerful panic buttons, especially if you had right sub-class active [e.g. bladedancer sucks balls for PvE].
Destiny Raids have clear mechanics for the bosses that enables you to kill demigod status enemies with "just an assault rifle". Is it realistic? Hell no, but it isn't supposed to be or shouldn't be. After all those encounters are supposed to be about learning mechanics of the encounter and doing good execution around them. Issue with post-Atheon bosses is that encounters aren't interesting in mechanics while being too long. But this is so off-topic stuff.
When it comes to Division we really don't know if and what mechanics they will introduce into more boss like encounters. One we had in beta was clearly designed to be yours "training wheels on" experience, and emphasise use of cover and taking down armor when fighting boss level enemies. I can see bosses getting different healing, shielding and damage dealing abilities as we get further into the game, and own major signature skills that force players to find ways of countering them.
I don't see place for HMG's and RL's in Division. Maybe then if enemy starts to roll around in M1A3 Abrams MBT's etc, but random gangs having MBT's would be such mindfuck on its own.
I don't think RPG has to give player option to play how ever they want in order to be RPG. In case of Division you can go all out in DPS, HP or "Magic", or combine all three branches in different ways to find different ways to play. All in DPS is basically your rogue or paper mage while all in HP is your tank build. You have options, just not unlimited amount.
So your again telling us you weren't in the Beta?
Hey, did you know GTAV was also a racing game?
Garrett Hawke
Member
Honestly yeah the bullet sponginess kind of put me off it. I did the Hospital mission on hard and all I could think about was shitty Heroic missions from Destiny.
Koutsoubas
Member
All valid concerns, but I mentioned the contradiction in realism, since the friend above(dont remember his name) mentioned that an RPG wouldnt seem realistic because we are in actual New York and we are trying to protect people from being casualties.
The thing for me is, go realistic or dont go at all. Half-mesaures like not having RPG because its unrealistic, but have humans require 6 headshots to die, seems a little off.
For me at least! Other gamers seem really fine with it. I respect that
The thing for me is, go realistic or dont go at all. Half-mesaures like not having RPG because its unrealistic, but have humans require 6 headshots to die, seems a little off.
For me at least! Other gamers seem really fine with it. I respect that