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The price of Hot Coffee: >$50 million

It's funny. I was going to make a thread about how much this could hurt Gamestop & EB because of used copies. I think they'll have to see the copies for pennies on the dollar to some group that would be willing to see the used copies online or through some other outlet. I'd cautiously put the number of used copies out there > 200,0000 copies, just from seeing at least 20 copies at every EB & Gamestop I've been to and together they've got over 2,000 stores.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129661.html

Gamespot said:
As retailers pull games from shelves and eat the cost of used copies, money gets left on the table...or goes to other games.

As retailers count up lost revenues that would have been made from sales of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas this summer, some business writers are suggesting Take-Two is privately reveling in the publicity the "Hot Coffee" controversy has brought it. "After all, nothing says 'buy me' to a 15-year-old quite like a message that this product is too racy to sell at Circuit City and GameStop," Business Week columnist David Kiley wrote. "In my opinion, censorship and uproar will only make San Andreas and future GTA games more appealing to teen gamers, Take-Two's target audience," said Motley Fool editor Nathan Alderman.

Cheeky theorizing aside, it's clear who the losers on the front line are. Almost every major retailer in North America, including Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, and the aforementioned Circuit City, has pulled the game from its shelves. GameStop yesterday said it would lose more than $1 million just from not being able to sell used copies of the game.

Take-Two itself said in a statement that it's lowering guidance for the third fiscal quarter (which ends July 31) to $160-$170 million in net sales. "Accordingly," the company said, "guidance for the fiscal year ending October 31, 2005 is also being lowered to $1.26 to $1.31 billion in net sales and $1.05 to $1.12 in diluted earnings per share."

But when the new M-rated San Andreas is released--sometime in the next six to eight weeks--it may still be hard to find. The New York Times today is reporting that some retailers, including Wal-Mart and Best Buy, have said they might decline to carry even the "cleaned-up" version of the game.

Given that San Andreas was the best-selling game of 2004, the losses could be staggering. Even six months into this year, the franchise has demonstrated continued selling power. The Xbox version of San Andreas was June's top-selling game, according to NPD Funworld.

One analyst's math? Starting with the numbers Take-Two put out yesterday--lowered guidance of about $40 million--and figuring that number to be 80 percent of the retail sales (assuming a markup of 20 percent), the analyst's estimate of lost retail sales could go as high as $50 million. "Specialty stores stand to lose more, as they had to pull their more profitable used titles off the shelves also," the analyst added.

But it's not just front-line retailers that stand to suffer. Renters of games are also reacting to the rerating. In an e-mail to its customers, GameFly said, "Due to the ESRB's new AO (Adults Only) rating for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, GameFly has decided to temporarily suspend rental and purchase of the current version."

Are there any winners in this game industry controversy? Maybe other publishers.

Another analyst told GameSpot that "maybe as an offset, more people go to the stores looking for the game--given all the publicity--and then buy something else." In a memo to investors yesterday, Shawn Milne of Friedman, Billings, Ramsey & Co. echoed those thoughts. He said that while "retailers are obviously upset with Rockstar/Take Two," given that the AO rating "blocks big box retailers, such as Wal-Mart, from selling the game," it opens the field up to other games. "We believe that the removal of GTA could benefit other publishers, such as Activision, with more shelf space (there is the possibility that True Crime 2 could be pulled forward)," he said.

And then there is the entertaining logic of Kiley to revisit. "Perhaps Take-Two should consider shrink-wrapping the game with a 16-ounce can of malt liquor and a pack of Luckys... In the long run, it might increase sales even if the company is taking it on the chin in the short run."

Yes, perhaps.
 
Gamestop didn't have to pull the game. What are they afraid of by selling an M game that's recently been changed to AO because of political pressures? Gamestop caters to the hardcore gamer, not parents wanting to buy little Jimmy the latest Scooby Doo game. They shouldn't have caved in; I can understand Walmart is afraid of a backlash, but Gamestop??? Gamestop and EB should have continued to sell the game, they could have earned so much respect and admiration from the base of customers they have come to rely on over the years. They have wasted a golden opportunity to make a stand for gamers and propel their image as THE place to go for hardcore games. Now, they're just like the rest...I have never shopped at Fry's or fye.com before, but I will definitely go there first from this moment on for my gaming needs, and I'm not alone. 6 million people bought GTA last year, that's an awful big number to snub as a retailer and an awful big number to lure from your competitors if you're trying to earn some points with males 18-35 with disposable income.

Rant mode OFF
 
Amused_To_Death said:
Gamestop caters to the hardcore gamer, not parents wanting to buy little Jimmy the latest Scooby Doo game.

Rant mode OFF

Do you work for Gamestop, or are you just "special"? :lol
 

Jado

Banned
Amused_To_Death said:
Gamestop caters to the hardcore gamer, not parents wanting to buy little Jimmy the latest Scooby Doo game.
belgurdo said:

That pretty much stood out to me as well. Maybe they cater to a slightly less casual gamer than Toys R' Us or Wal-Mart, but not really.
 

DrEvil

not a medical professional
EBGames Canada pulled the game from shelves, but we're still authorized to sell it pre-played in PS2 and xbox form if we have it in stock. Currently we have 10 copies of it left in the ps2 preplayed, and we've sold at least two copies a day as a result of this hot-coffee mod, and we inform customers that we can only sell it used.

Our daily E bee line said that we would NOT be carrying GTA:SA as long as it carried the AO rating, as we are a 'family' oriented company.

d
 
Amused_To_Death said:
On a percentage of sales basis, who benefits most of sales of games like GTA, HALO, MGS, RE, etc..Gamestop or Toys R Us?

Toys R US.

Most of the "casual" stores top "100" skus sell signficantly better as a percentag of overall sales vs specialty stores because people don't go to TRU to buy anything but the top selling games.
 

Truelize

Steroid Distributor
DrEvil said:
EBGames Canada pulled the game from shelves, but we're still authorized to sell it pre-played in PS2 and xbox form if we have it in stock. Currently we have 10 copies of it left in the ps2 preplayed, and we've sold at least two copies a day as a result of this hot-coffee mod, and we inform customers that we can only sell it used.

Our daily E bee line said that we would NOT be carrying GTA:SA as long as it carried the AO rating, as we are a 'family' oriented company.

d

Really? I wonder who will actually carry this game once it has that rating. Blockbuster and TRU also consider themselves a "family " oriented company.
 

Mooreberg

Member
In my opinion, censorship and uproar will only make San Andreas and future GTA games more appealing to teen gamers

Ding Ding Ding.

This reminds me of the uproar surrounding Eminem's second album. All it did was fuel demand for it.

Good job Hillary. :lol
 
On a related note, I was talking to the manager yesterday at a local independent game store. He said they will continue to sell the game but only to people who are over 18. And since the game's rating changed and larger chains started pulling it from their shelves, his sales have gone through the roof.
 

acidviper

Banned
sonycowboy said:
I'd cautiously put the number of used copies out there > 200,0000 copies, just from seeing at least 20 copies at every EB & Gamestop I've been to and together they've got over 2,000 stores.

How does 20 x 2000 = 200,000?

Is this Xbox math.
15 million Xbox 1 sold = 1 billion Xbox Live users in teh future.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Amused_To_Death said:
Gamestop didn't have to pull the game. What are they afraid of by selling an M game that's recently been changed to AO because of political pressures? Gamestop caters to the hardcore gamer, not parents wanting to buy little Jimmy the latest Scooby Doo game. They shouldn't have caved in; I can understand Walmart is afraid of a backlash, but Gamestop??? Gamestop and EB should have continued to sell the game, they could have earned so much respect and admiration from the base of customers they have come to rely on over the years. They have wasted a golden opportunity to make a stand for gamers and propel their image as THE place to go for hardcore games. Now, they're just like the rest...I have never shopped at Fry's or fye.com before, but I will definitely go there first from this moment on for my gaming needs, and I'm not alone. 6 million people bought GTA last year, that's an awful big number to snub as a retailer and an awful big number to lure from your competitors if you're trying to earn some points with males 18-35 with disposable income.

Rant mode OFF

:lol

Everyone knows real hardcore gamers buy their games at places like Fry's or Best Buy where when you buy a NEW game it will always be NEW and not a resealed copy that has been rented by every employee in the store.
 
if anything gamestop is frequented by less hardcore gamers than Bestbuy/Fry's/TRU. Its always filled with annoying ass litttle brat teenagers who get dropped off at the mall by their parents for the day.
 
Truelize said:
Really? I wonder who will actually carry this game once it has that rating. Blockbuster and TRU also consider themselves a "family " oriented company.


Well I'm pretty sure Take 2 is just gonig to remove the content now, because virtually none of the major chains will touch the game if they just stick with it as an "AO" game.
 

GamerShu

Banned
Amused_To_Death said:
I don't know about you, but I haven't seen many 20 somethings walk into TRU to buy games!

im 21 and go to TRU...they generally have the best selection of games for all current consoles..especially GBA...holy crap, they carry alot of GBA titles
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
GamerShu said:
im 21 and go to TRU...they generally have the best selection of games for all current consoles..especially GBA...holy crap, they carry alot of GBA titles

And they are usually always cheaper than EB/Gamestop and you don't get harassed to pre order something when you buy the game!
 

Tellaerin

Member
ManaByte said:
:lol

Everyone knows real hardcore gamers buy their games at places like Fry's or Best Buy where when you buy a NEW game it will always be NEW and not a resealed copy that has been rented by every employee in the store.

No, that's 'real anal dickheads'. A real hardcore gamer is concerned with playing games, not whether a game is in the original shrinkwrap or the package has a 'Greatest Hits' stripe on it or any of this other retarded nonsense people here like to whine about. It takes about two seconds to ask the person at the counter to show you the disc for a gutted game before you buy it. The sad part is that there are people here who still wouldn't buy a gutted game even if the disc was pristine, because somebody somewhere might have secretly played the game and left invisible dust and scratches (and germs!) on it even if they can't see it! The fact that you actually consider the Howard Hughes gamers who obsess over stupid minutiae like that more 'hardcore' than the ones who are focused primarily on playing the games is pathetic.
 
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