-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Aldric
Member
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the map. The way you can highlight parts of it like a particular kind of door for instance to show all the similar doors in the area is in fact a pretty great way to help people who don't know where to go, even if the game itself does a great job at guiding the player to the critical path.
The rest of the bullet points are stupid and don't really deserve a rebuttal. She's right about the music though it's shit. Metroid Dread confirmed flop if it was called Leftoid Bread no one would care it's ok when Nintendo does it wake up sheeple!!
The rest of the bullet points are stupid and don't really deserve a rebuttal. She's right about the music though it's shit. Metroid Dread confirmed flop if it was called Leftoid Bread no one would care it's ok when Nintendo does it wake up sheeple!!
Is she wrong though? If we're tying production value to cost, which a lot of non-AAA games do, would this really cost 60 bucks in the hands of someone else?
I don't think you really listened to her complaints. She's clearly talking about METROID but basing her larger expectations on the genre. None of the complaints she had that you've highlighted are even the major complaints (in fact she says Samus controls VERY well, despite a few oddities in button layout).
. . .honestly sounds like you went into this video "knowing" she was wrong and watched just enough to convince yourself you were right.
Davey Cakes
Member
Love the comments that are like “thank you for giving this game an HONEST review, now I can feel better about not buying it.”
Why someone needs excuses to not buy something is beyond me. Also, at this point there’s a demo for Dread. Try it first, bozos.
It really highlights the low point of gaming discourse.
Why someone needs excuses to not buy something is beyond me. Also, at this point there’s a demo for Dread. Try it first, bozos.
And people are doing the exact opposite, using the video to validate their preconceptions about the game.
It really highlights the low point of gaming discourse.
Last edited:
Aldric
Member
It's not that she's wrong or right it's that it's an essentially meaningless argument. How do you determine whether Dread should cost 60 dollars or less? Is it based on its budget? Do you know how much it cost? If no then what are you even talking about, some vague feeling based on the fact it's a 2D game and therefore fundamentally less valuable than a 3D one? If the value of a game is tied to its budget then do you think that these ridiculous quintuple A productions with capeshit licensing, celebrity voice acting and absurd marketing campaigns should cost 80 dollars of more? Is it based on the game's length? The game is designed to be replayed multiple times, it's not unreasonable to think one will get a solid 30 hours of gameplay out of the title. Is it because other comparable titles set a precedent with a low price point? Some games are free and have more content than retail titles selling at full price. Should all games be free?
The value of a game is basically entirely subjective and up to the consumer to decide whether the product is desirable enough to shell out the asked price. Saying "I didn't like the game so it's not worth the price" is essentially saying nothing, it's a circular argument.
Lightjolly
Neo Member
Not going to watch, but yeah i dropped it around 30 minutes after the big iconic returning boss.
Level design was very linear and devoid of any interesting themes. Emmis got old quick, a poor attempt at mimicking Fusions SA-X. Only liked the movement and the increased difficulty.
Unfortunately Dread released in a post Hollow Knight, Ori wotw world. Might have liked it more if it had released before them.
Level design was very linear and devoid of any interesting themes. Emmis got old quick, a poor attempt at mimicking Fusions SA-X. Only liked the movement and the increased difficulty.
Unfortunately Dread released in a post Hollow Knight, Ori wotw world. Might have liked it more if it had released before them.
Last edited:
Buggy Loop
Member
If I go and judge Hollow Knight after 30 mins, there won’t be much to talk about.. The most sluggish bloated with poor traversal Metroidvania ever made. There would be nothing interesting to write about it in the first 30 mins.
The feeling of linearity can totally be broken. You can go completely off road in Dread more-so than any Metroids before it, there’s huge sequence and item breaks that were designed in (as in no glitch exploit, but level design).
30 mins and devoid of interesting themes? No shit?
Last edited:
Lightjolly
Neo Member
Uh...read again, slowly this time. "30 minutes after the big iconic boss" you know who im talking about.If I go and judge Hollow Knight after 30 mins, there won’t be much to talk about.. The most sluggish bloated with poir traversal Metroidvania ever made. There would be nothing interesting to write about it in the first 30 mins.
The feeling of linearity can totally be broken. You can go completely off road in Dread more-so than any Metroids before it, there’s huge sequence and item breaks that were designed in (as in no glitch exploit, but level design).
30 mins and devoid of interesting themes? No shit?
So yeah I already had enough hours in the game and i stand by what I said there was no interesting themes
Last edited:
mcjmetroid
Member
That's why it's up for game of the year.....
Fredrik
Member
You shouldn’t care even if this random person was a professional game critic, it’s one of the highest rated games of the year, an opinion that goes against the grain is really just noise that can be filtered away. Unfortunately people can make money today by posting hot take videos where they go against the general consensus, it happens for all popular games. See it as a result that Metroid is popular again! Then go play the game and enjoy one of the most perfect games the industry has seen in years.
Last edited:
Stefan.North
Member
I have briefly, and I said it. I am totally unwilling to give my time to someone inconsistent and undecided on the matter. I have better things to do.
And here I thought she was a bad reviewer, you're making her into a AWFUL one. She should review a game as it is, maybe it doesn't fall into the genre, or is making up it's own subgenre.
She used 7 minutes (a third of a review) on small complaints in a video for "Meh-troid" (her words)? Is there anything to discuss here, I wonder?
Had to change few things. Now you're right.
Last edited:
mcjmetroid
Member
We seem to go through this nonsense whenever Nintendo actually releases a good game.
When it comes to Nintendo these days people sure like to pick on the wrong shit. Pick on Labo or that stupid Mario Kart live circuit game or the million rereleases or the pathetic looking shining diamond and pearl..
Not a great game like this that has effort put into it. This game is becoming the new Breath of the Wild and I expect the same shit when Breath of the Wild 2, Bayonetta 3 and prime 4 is released as well.
When it comes to Nintendo these days people sure like to pick on the wrong shit. Pick on Labo or that stupid Mario Kart live circuit game or the million rereleases or the pathetic looking shining diamond and pearl..
Not a great game like this that has effort put into it. This game is becoming the new Breath of the Wild and I expect the same shit when Breath of the Wild 2, Bayonetta 3 and prime 4 is released as well.
Last edited:
Trimesh
Banned
It's YouTube. YouTube is pure shit.
Banjo64
cumsessed
It’s an amazing game. I absolutely love games with tight controls like this and a great learning curve. Samus handles like a dream.
It’s my first Metroid game and it’s great feeling yourself becoming better and better the more you play. And then I watch YouTube videos of some guy skipping bosses by leaping around like a maniac and blowing walls up by timing his shot to perfection and I realise I’m still an absolute amateur. Skill ceiling is sky high.
I don’t get the complaints about the EMMI. How bad do you have to be to struggle on those sections? You can literally evade them even after they’ve seen you as long as you are quick.
It’s my first Metroid game and it’s great feeling yourself becoming better and better the more you play. And then I watch YouTube videos of some guy skipping bosses by leaping around like a maniac and blowing walls up by timing his shot to perfection and I realise I’m still an absolute amateur. Skill ceiling is sky high.
I don’t get the complaints about the EMMI. How bad do you have to be to struggle on those sections? You can literally evade them even after they’ve seen you as long as you are quick.
Banjo64
cumsessed
All I can say is I bought Dread for day 1 for £34.99 from Curry’s. Compared to the £69.99 that other publishers are charging I think Dread is the best value game of the year hands down.
Oddvintagechap
Member
Interfectum
Member
Spaceman292
Banned
They're not stealth areas, you can just run through them. You can literally jump over the EMMIs.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
I didn't like the EMMI sections, but it kind of made killing them more satisfying. The QTE shit is spot on. Fuck that. You need to deliver a lot of damage to the boss only to have to hit a QTE or several to win. I don't see how that adds anything other than more chance for frustration in some pretty hard bosses. I enjoyed the game, but will never play it again.
Daymos
Member
Attack and defend! The best shield is a reflective one! So saying the OP has never played Metroid Dread wins.
Entertainment is nonsense so all of your opinions are created by virtual excitement or disgust.. the formless ooze of opinion shaped only by your own made-up logic of right and wrong.
Thus arguing game quality is like arguing religion, you'll never win or prove anything.
Entertainment is nonsense so all of your opinions are created by virtual excitement or disgust.. the formless ooze of opinion shaped only by your own made-up logic of right and wrong.
Thus arguing game quality is like arguing religion, you'll never win or prove anything.
Last edited:
Lunarorbit
Member
How do we know she's getting downvoted though? I thought Google disabled the count.
kanjobazooie
Mouse Ball Fetishist
It's still visible.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Yeah but it’s Nintendo game so you have to give it a 10/10 otherwise Nintendo will stop sending you shit and put you on the bad behavior list.
drotahorror
Member
What did you find hard?
The only parts I found frustrating were the EMMI encounters. I didn't like running from them and I didn't enjoy killing them. Not hard, just trial and error usually.
The bosses were good, not very hard but hard enough to give a bit of a challenge. The final boss was definitely the most difficult part of the game for me.
I loved it but I agree with some of the youtuber's points. The EMMI encounters suck, the music was forgettable and the map system was annoying. Too many random teleporters, elevators, trams etc. I understand why it was designed that way, to keep you progressing and moving forward which was an interesting design decision. Usually you just run around aimlessly trying to figure out where to go in these types of games, but not Metroid Dread.
Davey Cakes
Member
At this point I’m convinced that people just don’t like being taken out of their comfort zone. They hate the game design choice from the jump and don’t like having to adapt.
David Jaffe got absolutely roasted for this take. Breakable walls are a Metroid staple, and the game legit tells you to look out for them.
The game instructs the player on pretty much every one of its mechanics, but because it also trusts the player to figure out the rest, people throw a “bad design” label on it. I’d say deliberate design is more appropriate.
The way some people describe Metroid Dread you’d think it’s La Mulana levels of obtuse and Dark Souls levels of hard. It’s just not.
Last edited:
SirTerry-T
Gold Member
If we are talking production values, Samus' animation system alone is worth ten quid...it's been ages since I have felt that "in tune" with controlling a player character.
Last edited:
LavitzSlambert
Member
It’s a hallmark of the series, but easily the first thing that should have died after the SNES era. There is no defense for obtuse mechanics like that. Just like invisible items in Pokemon.
NinjaBoiX
Member
To be fair, he was the main person I was referring to.
But can I ask a question:
Are there any tells that suggest which walls might be breakable? Like a crack, some loose rubble crumbling or a shaft of light shining through?
I’m all for game design that asks you to pay attention to your surroundings, that’s GOOD design.
But if you just need to spam shots at identical looking wall tiles until one gives way to reveal the path then why even include them? Seems like pointless busywork to me.
Exactly.
How about encouraging the player to pay attention, rather than tasking them with the Metroidvania equivalent of just clicking everywhere on the screen?
Last edited:
LavitzSlambert
Member
The strangest part is there ARE those gameplay elements included! I’ve only played the demo so far, but there are growths on walls that you can shoot and it clears a path with an explosion. They are not always 100% obvious at first but they are recognizable and there is no guesswork to be done. Metroid Prime fixed this shit 20 years ago, I have no idea why it’s still in the 2D games.
Buggy Loop
Member
They should have painted every climbable ledges with white paint and all the destructible blocks with a big red X, that way, even gamers in a medical coma could at least advance beyond the initial area.
Davey Cakes
Member
There’s maybe one instance where a breakable wall with “no tell” blocks the critical path, unless I’m misremembering.
Like I said, she wasn't inconsistent. You weren't listening.
I'm pretty sure METROID falls into the Metroidvania genre.
No, because again, you weren't listening to the review if you think she spent seven minutes on "small complaints."
Well you showed me.
Jeeves
Member
The tells are indirect and ask the player to pay a bit more attention to the environment than "see crack in wall, shoot crack in wall". Generally if there's a thin layer of wall/floor/ceiling between you and where you want to be, or where the game seems to be leading you, it's time to test for a breakable section. If you're paying attention, you'll already be suspicious of the area and have a good idea of where to look for it well before you open fire.
The game absolutely does not expect you to mindlessly spam fire at every surface in the game, if that's what you're afraid of.
NinjaBoiX
Member
She’s someone who plays video games that has posted a video with her thoughts on the video game in question. I thought it was sensible, well worded review that gave specific and contextual examples of her perceived failings of the game.
You don’t need to care.
You don’t need to click.
It’s a good system.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Yeah, fair enough.
If you’re familiar with the series then I guess it might go without saying that you’d be prepared to look for these gaps in the geometry as the obvious path forward.
But surely you can appreciate how a modern audience unfamiliar with these games might see such an approach as a little archaic?
Edit: Don’t forget, this is the first mainline Metroid game in a number of years, and the first to launch on a system that has grown quite a sizeable “casual” audience.
It seems to me that some more modern design concessions could’ve been made without spoiling the game for existing fans.
“I can’t believe they felt the need to highlight the breakable section that I already new to look for with a little crack. I want my money back!”
Last edited:
Herr Edgy
Member
Not really.
Either a block stands out as "hey, I'm different" or it's the same as all the other blocks.
Giving it away on sight leads to increasing irrelevancy of this mechanic for exploration. Dread is really well designed and by far most of the time you recognize some level of intent for breaking blocks. That being said, you can get lost in specific situations or if you manage to miss the tells that are pretty obvious in hindsight and I can also understand that someone not used to to this being a series staple will not be in the right mindset at first to expect the unexpected. Dread embracing this tradition yet usually guiding you towards where you want to be is where it differs from the boring gaming landscape. I do not need or want the next watered down game series that makes concessions for people that expect the game to be something that it wasn't originally, at the cost of removing its original identity.
"Let's let light shine through the block or make it seem like rubble because modern players are used to be spoonfed all information necessary to progress, because trying things out and failing can lead to frustration" is a take that has poisoned game design discourse.
Davey Cakes
Member
Plus the game does have modern concessions such as generous checkpoints before EMMI zones and bosses.
Last edited:
NinjaBoiX
Member
Yeah, fair enough.
Honestly, I can absolutely see both sides of the argument, and you make a compelling point. But if I had to fall on either side of the discussion, it would be to add a very slight crumble or similar to highlight the relevant section.
At best, it would have the veterans rolling their eyes a little that the designers felt the need to hold the hand of noobs. But they already knew to look for a breakable block, so I guess you robbed them of the fun 20 seconds of finding the right block? But they knew it was there somewhere anyway so
At worst, it would have said “noobs” feeling frustrated because that’s honesty not something most modern audiences would be expected to have to do. It is a little cryptic by today’s standards, let’s be honest.
Last edited:
Aldric
Member
Cool, that way we won't have braindead shitposters still butthurt about it 5 years later like with Breath of the Wild.
Team Andromeda
Member
The bosses
tassletine
Member
Basically don't mess with the formula. I liked it the way it was.
I don't think those are particularly valid criticisms myself, as wanting something to stay the same is unrealistic.
The only part of the game that really faltered was the end IMO. The boss was very tough and what came afterwards wasn't worth the fight. The game was very good, but not excellent.
I don't think those are particularly valid criticisms myself, as wanting something to stay the same is unrealistic.
The only part of the game that really faltered was the end IMO. The boss was very tough and what came afterwards wasn't worth the fight. The game was very good, but not excellent.
Fredrik
Member
Why is a 2D platformer worth less money?
2D Dread gave me more hours than 3D Ratchet. Probably similar playtime for the first playthrough but I dropped Ratchet as soon as I saw the ending credits while I kept playing Metroid until I saw the 100% label.
cireza
Member
Did the same but after 30 seconds. Man that title screen sure was shit.