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[hampig]

I know a few guys who are totally ripped. They're fun, but kind of dicks. I like them. I have a fairly average body. I like me too. They can put whatever kind of guys they want in video games. I'd rather play as somebody more capable than myself most of the time.

I do think Kane and Lynch did a cool job with having unique characters. The first game was awesome.

Anyways, I say let games have idealized humans in them. Whatever.

 

[KrawlMan]

I suppose developers could probably do some work at integrating more unique faces, but the fitness of these characters shouldn't be questioned. You aren't going to accomplish a whole lot physically with a "dad-bod" so it's ridiculous to expect that games portray this type of person.

Go to a rock climbing gym and look around at anybody worth a damn that's bouldering. Now tell me that Nathan Drake shouldn't be "shredded" or at least very fit.

 

[Lionel Richie]

It's the same as any other media, movies, magazines, tv shows, etc. Why is this so hard for some of you to grasp?

Because videogame characters are, and hold on because it might get scary, not real people. It's a work of fiction, it doesn't and shouldn't dictate how you view yourself. People don't expect you to be Sam Fisher, just like they don't expect you to be SpongeBob. If you seriously get sad or shit like that when thinking about it, it's an issue that you need to deal with yourself however you see fit.

 

[Dark_castle]

Great character, memorable character design. If he were just yet another slim/fit, good looking bastard, he probably wouldn't have been as memorable.

 

[Mephala]

The physical appearance of a character isn't the only thing I look at though.

In any case I'm not someone who considers the characters in games to be something to aspire towards. I have never looked at a character and thought that looks awesome, I want to be like that. Except maybe when I was very young. I believe I wanted to roll around as a speedy blue ball as a kid.

 

[Zolo]

Best character in the game, memorable character design. If he were just yet another slim/fit, good looking bastard, he probably wouldn't have been as memorable.

Fixed. Even got his own spinoff, so I guess he was popular in Japan as well.

 

[foolishoptimist]

Go to a rock climbing gym and look around at anybody worth a damn that's bouldering. Now tell me that Nathan Drake shouldn't be "shredded" or at least very fit.

But climbing is more in the fingers/tendons and technique than in the arm strength. The bigger you are, the heavier you are, so it's actually counter-productive.

Really good climbers will usually be kinda wirey.

 

[Speely]

Not to chime in lightly, but I don't feel comfy touching this topic in a serious sense given that I am drunk right now so...

Mario has mega dad bod and he always saves the day and the hot babe. Arguably the most recognizable videogame character. Mario is a fat plumber.

My attempt at levity.

 

[Renekton]

In RPGs where you can customize own appearance... everytime I make my ugly self, it becomes even more jarring when NPCs treat me like Jesus or Batman.

 

[Astral Dog]

Video game characters dont have to represent what real people look like.

Be honest, would you want to play a GTA game with protag that looks like Danny Devito?

most GTA protagonists are average or ugly already, so im not sure what are you getting at.

but yes would be awesome

No guy I know has the balls to tell a girl she's getting fat.

hint, it comes from other girls too

 

[KrawlMan]

But climbing is more in the fingers/tendons and technique than in the arm strength. The bigger you are, the heavier you are, so it's actually counter-productive.

Really good climbers will usually be kinda wirey.

Shredded does not mean huge, Just lean/fit. Nathan Drake isn't some burly man, and I've seen plenty of folks look around his size (yet probably leaner) doing a fine job.

 

[Drac84]

We had a videogame protagonist that accurately represented the average gamer's physique, but he was too beautiful for this world.

I don't know of a SINGLE GUY that does not have somewhat of a spare tire

#America /s.

I'm 32 and only have one overweight friend, everyone else has stayed in shape through basic diet and exercise. That being said, just because the vast majority of my friends are still in shape doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people out there that are overweight, no more than you not knowing anyone who has stayed in shape doesn't rule out the existence of real people that are fit. There's a tendency amongst people to assume that their own observations and experiences are universal, which is often a flawed starting point.

This of course isn't just videogames, but all media pretty much portrays the majority of all male characters completely shredded.

There are no pigeons on the cover of national geographic. There are Hawks, Cassowaries, Eagles, Condors, but not pigeons. Why? Because why would you put something that's common or average on the cover of a magazine? "Extra Extra! That ordinary thing you see 100 times a day in your own life!" - said no newsboy ever. People see hundreds of pigeons every day, why would they buy a magazine with a pigeon on the cover? Magazine covers, television, movies and videogames are for the exceptional. The Hawks, Cassowaries, Eagles and Condors.

Not pigeons.

Aren't most video game characters performing some type of athleticism? I would argue that "dad-bod" would not be possible for what they have to do. It may not be climbing but you run through a city without falling over.

This.

 

[Mechazawa]

I'll say as a general statement that I wish there were more plain/ugly looking characters in video games.

Playing supermodels all the time gets kinda tiring.

Spoiler

Or just let me play as more robots/androids.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

People aren't fighting for unfit women in games or non heroic characters; it's more about clothes that cover more than nipples or the cracks of their ass. That's basically what this thread is about.

A more apt comparison would be if Nathan Drake ran around with a 12 inch dong wearing only a banana hammock to battle.

I guess they keep creating near perfect male characters is because they feel that in a fantasy world, people would generally rather see aesthetically appealing male characters over average, everyday looking males. Imho, it basically works the same way for females. Honestly, I do not care if a video game character male or female is half naked, in a speedo, bikini or whatnot as long as the game is enjoyable. Things like that just do not bother me even if it is out of place. I think his point was more about realistic representation of male characters and I know I've taken heat for this in the past, but I still say that female representation is more realistic in video games compared to men.

Sure, there some half naked women out there which to me is seemingly becoming a thing of the past unless you play a lot of those MMO's which I rarely touch or a few fighting games, but the males in video games are almost always hyper-muscular, beastly looking creatures with an iota of fat or handsome with slender, athletic bodies. I can barely even find a professional wrestler, body builder or MMA fighter with a body like Ryu, Guile from SF5 or Jin Kazama, Akuma, or Feng from Tekken. Look at near 80 year old Heihachi in Tekken, haha. Finding a woman in real life with a body like Nina Williams or a Lara Croft isn't exactly an easy task either, especially where I live but it's definitely easier than finding a male that is comparable to the ones I listed.

 

[nightside]

Why can't I do this now?!?

Uncharted: The Todd chronicles.

 

[Roshin]

Be honest, would you want to play a GTA game with protag that looks like Danny Devito?

If I can play a character that is fat, bald, short, or in any way deviate from the norm, I go there immediately.

 

[Yeezus]

As the medium evolves we, as the game playing public, will probably see more and more complex portraits of human beings instead of stereotypical caricatures--in fact the medium might come to demand it. You noted Max Payne, but I found Rockstar's treatment of the aging relic to be quite interesting.

In any case, people play videogames for lots of different reasons but undoubtedly some kind of escapism is on the list for many. Playing as the handsome soldier-dude allows young kids or those that are older with what they themselves might refer to as a less-than-ideal physique to relish the opportunity to imagine their lives, or their bodies, as something else and experience something different and exciting. I'm not going to try and make a bulletproof case for escapism or wish fulfillment, but I'm sure that's a big part of gaming for a lot of people: doing things you normally couldn't (or wouldn't), or being someone other than your self, possibly a "better" version.

As a sideline note, I think these are important things to talk about and that there is always a place to be critical of the media and these representations. But for every Bloodborne, there will be a Senran Kagura.

 

[astroturfing]

why would anyone look to videogames for examples of what you should look like? that's.. idiotic. i knew not to do that since i was like 7.

 

[Langdon Alger]

How the hell are us real guys supposed to compete? I mean, am I the only that feels like he has shit self-esteem when the guys being plastered everywhere are practically gods?

I don't compare my body with video game character's bodies and then get depressed. I compare my body with real people in the real world, like my co-workers and peers.

 

[Kageshinzo]

Perhaps you'll be able to connect more to ol' Larry Laffer, OP. Might want to try the Leisure Suit Larry series then.

 

[red731]

Doomguy is a fucking jerk.

Demon sympathizer detected.

 

[ambar_hitman]

Ever thought about why most movie stars have great body? Almost 95% of them have great physique. In case of action movies, 99% have great physique, unless it's a comedy like American ninja.

Still it seems alright, because movies.
Video games mostly follow the same template. Was Indiana Jones fat? Did he have a dad body? No. Then why do people expect Nate to be any different? It seems hypocritical tbh.

 

[xxracerxx]

Never said they're harsher. Just said that as a man people have no problem telling me shit to make me feel like shit with no holds barred. I've literally gone to gettys before where everyone just compliments the girls, then literally boom turn to the guys "dude you're getting fat."

Last year in fact, at a friend's party, they posted up mock posters for me and my best friend because both of us had gained some weight, calling our women pig snatchers and cowherders for being with us fat guys

You just have shit friends.

 

[Poimandres]

I think that games have a tendency to present people unrealistically in the same way a lot of media does. Lot's of unreasonably beautiful people that could certainly skew your perspective on normality.

 

[veloxStrix]

I don't agree with the "everyone is overweight" idea for men anymore than for women. I know plenty of people who are overweight, underweight, toned, ripped, fat, skinny. And an other adjectives you can think of. I don't want to play as an obese person or even an out-of-shape desk jockey unless it makes sense. Not every body type needs to be represented. For either gender.

 

[Aenima]

This Danny DeVito game needs to happen

Not the real Danny, but close.

 

[Jonbo298]

Video games = Not reality

It's as simple as that. I'm not competing against something fake. Video games let me escape reality. It's a creation by someone else meant to be enjoyed as a way to forget about life temporarily, it's no different than movies or television or even books.

 

[Dereck]

Video game characters dont have to represent what real people look like.

Be honest, would you want to play a GTA game with the cast from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia?

Yes

 

[icecold1983]

Now before anyone complains about all videogame main characters are generic white, dark haired guys, etc. I wanted to make a thread about realistic expectations on what men should look like. This isn't about gender/race or anything like that. This is strictly body characteristics.

It annoys me to no end that pretty much every single main character is pretty much always shredded, and has a perfect hairline. If they don't, then they're either a joke character like a Rufus or a Birdie. Look at Nathan Drake, he's in his late 30s, early 40s, by UC4 and he has a perfect hairline, and still looks like he's in perfect shape. What the hell? He's a pencil pusher and a diver. How does he retain that physique?

The only characters I can think of that are even slightly realistic, although albeit exaggerated are Trevor (GTAV) and Frank West (DR2: Off the Record), and those two are almost jokes as a whole. Even Michael from GTAV was in great shape for his age.

If a character doesn't have a sixpack then he's immediately bucketed into "dad-bod" a term in which I have come to hate, which I can't even think of a single dad bod charcter. Look at characters like Sam Fisher (Splinter Cell), Joel (Last of Us), Max Payne, Ezio (AC: Revelations). Not only do all of these characters not have dad bods, all of them have perfect hairlines (until Max shaved his head). How is this natural? You never see any of these guys work out (except maybe Ezio who is climbing all damn day). They eat and drink as they please. And they all have amazing genetics.

Look at Chris Redfield for example. The guy is a freaking monster. Leon is much thinner than him but even him you can tell is probably shredded. I'm sure there are a million fanarts of sixpacks on Leon. I'm not even going to touch fighting game characters as they're always damn monsters.

I alluded to this in another thread recently but I kill myself every week working out/dieting and I'm probably at a "dad bod" level at best at 29. My hair is thinning/receding, because I guess I lost the genetic lottery. Yet every single one of my friends in the same age range as me is either losing their hair, or has a dad bod.
Meaning not ripped, just normal, or with a small gut. I don't know of a SINGLE GUY that does not have somewhat of a spare tire. This of course isn't just videogames, but all media pretty much portrays the majority of all male characters completely shredded.

I also notice people are much harsher on men in terms of manners. When my hair started thinning? Better believe everyone and their mother felt the need to point it out to me. When I gained a few pounds last year, everyone and their mother felt the need to point it out to me.

How the hell are us real guys supposed to compete? I mean, am I the only that feels like he has shit self-esteem when the guys being plastered everywhere are practically gods?

P.S. I'm specifically picking on videogame characters so I put it in games forum.

its a video game. how are you competing with them? are girls going to pick them over you???

the reason people are more apt to make comments about a mans physical appearance is because we arent judged nearly as much in society on our looks

 

[Some Nobody]

This is a bad thread. There is no expectation set upon men the way it is for women, which is what he's lowkey implying.

This is kinda conflating two issues which aren't the same thing, so let me see if I can separate them: If anyone tells you the expectations set upon men are worse than the ones on women, they are factually incorrect.

But, saying there are NO expectations? LOL. There absolutely are, and they're getting worse over time.

If you assumed for just one second that this guy wasn't joking or trolling, this thread is terrifying because it's full of people blaming a singular person for a systemic issue.

Having said that, like every other problem in human history its going to get worse before it gets better. But I kinda want to be proven right so I'm fully onboard with doing nothing until bad shit happens.

Still though: OP just needs new friends (his current ones sound awful, lol) and to play different games.

 

[Dalibor68]

Video game characters dont have to represent what real people look like.

I agree with this. If you're looking at videogames for personal self-affirmation you have other, more important issues.

Be honest, would you want to play a GTA game with protag that looks like Danny Devito?

I disagree with this however. Creativity isn't bad and especcially the idea of a GTA with Danny Devito sounds awesome.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

This doesn't really bother me because it's just videogames following the Hollywood trope of everyone being toned and gorgeous, but one specific line from the OP I wanted to comment on:

The only characters I can think of that are even slightly realistic, although albeit exaggerated are Trevor (GTAV) and Frank West (DR2: Off the Record), and those two are almost jokes as a whole. Even Michael from GTAV was in great shape for his age.

Yeah, I started replaying GTAV again recently, and loads of people in the game comment about how Michael is fat or overweight, which I thought was bizarre. He's in pretty good shape for a guy in his mid-late 40s and nowhere near what I would consider fat.

 

[Oblivion]

I've mentioned my story lots of times, but what the hell.

I grew up skinny as fuck. Guys laughed at me, and girls weren't interested in me. This shitty physique stayed with me all the way up until I was 29 when I started to (properly) go to the gym and change my eating habits. I'm still a good distance away from my ideal physique (Solid Snake or Leon Kennedy, if you'd like to keep the comparisons limited to vidya games), but even at my worst, never did I once think to myself that I wish game protagonists (or ANY protagonists) were modeled after myself so that I could "relate" to them, or because healthier physiques made me feel inferior. I mean, why would you want to? In my case, being skinny meant both that you looked pathetic and were functionally pathetic as well (I would have trouble lifting a 20" T.V.). There's zero benefit to being built such a way? So why would you want to play as someone like that?

The whole point (well, one of the major points, I guess) of things like video games, movies and T.V. shows is to provide escapism. You like these type of characters because they're not you. Because they're better than you.

 

[kai3345]

The most popular video game character in the world has a dad bod and the ladies love him.

but how's his hairline tho

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

In ancient polytheist Europe, people celebrated youth and beauty. They didn't do it because everyone actually looked like this (or died at age 20, for that matter). It's a way of worshipping life and mother nature itself. To admire strength, youthfulness and fertility. I don't think there's something wrong with it. Do you?

 

[Shrike_Priest]

I agree with this. If you're looking at videogames for personal self-affirmation you have other, more important issues.

Feeling inadequate as a result of being faced with idealized examples of masculine bodies isn't the same as looking to videogames for self affirmation.

It's the exact same issue with cinema and TV, where the majority of male protagonists share the same features (though videogames are probably even less diverse).

It's a problem, and the ones benefiting are the beauty/gym/roid-industry.

Exercise is great, but the current male ideal is something that causes a lot of grief for a lot of young men. There's no way around that. I see tons of kids working their ass off at the gym, only to be too tired to put in actual school work (both boys and girls). And there's some serious anger coming from those unable to reach those ideals. And a lot of scorn from those who do.


The only solution is, as usual, to highlight the issue and push for more diversity in representation.

I'm really looking forward to Feminist Frequency's male-oriented series, as I think it can do a lot of good. But it's been a bit quiet about it for quite a while.

 

[Dalibor68]

Feeling inadequate as a result of being faced with idealized examples of masculine bodies isn't the same as looking to videogames for self affirmation.

It's the exact same issue with cinema and TV, where the majority of male protagonists share the same features (though videogames are probably even less diverse).

It's a problem, and the ones benefiting are the beauty/gym/roid-industry.

Exercise is great, but the current male ideal is something that causes a lot of grief for a lot of young men. There's no way around that. I see tons of kids working their ass off at the gym, only to be too tired to put in actual school work (both boys and girls). And there's some serious anger coming from those unable to reach those ideals. And a lot of scorn from those who do.

Interesting. I'm going to the gym for 8 years now and never witnessed that. How exactly do you figure that they are bad in school because they are too much in the gym? Removing the gym from their lives suddenly they become grade A students? Sorry but that is so incredibly naive. For many especcially in poorer parts of town fitness and by extension maybe getting into sports through that is actually a positive thing and an escape.

The only solution is, as usual, to highlight the issue and push for more diversity in representation.

By that very same logic, shouldn't we forbid obese characters? How many people feel shitty because they're obese and how much does it cost the healthcare system? And in comparison to that, how many people feel shitty because they're not as ripped as roided up Hollywood actors and how much does that cost the healthcare system?

I feel it's very selective in a certain direction. There is absolutely nothing wrong with idealizing young and healthy humans, because that is the ideal state. Of course that standard shouldn't be anorexic models and roided up guys, but it really isn't, that is mostly another fear tactic used to mudden the narrative. That doesn't mean we can't have diverse characters in terms of weight/height/hairline, especcially where it makes sense(ie not an obese or superskinny squad mate in Mass Effect).

Also from reading the OP again, he/his lifestyle fixation doesn't sound healthy at all, maybe talk to someone?

 

[Sky Chief]

My friends always tell me that I look just like a sightly younger Michael from GTA5 including body type. I would say I'm in pretty good shape for my age and go to the gym regularly but I'm definitely not ripped.

 

[Rotch Crot]

I am the other way around. I want a GTA game where I play as some kind of ex spec ops bad ass.

 

[MattKeil]

Yeah, I started replaying GTAV again recently, and loads of people in the game comment about how Michael is fat or overweight, which I thought was bizarre. He's in pretty good shape for a guy in his mid-late 40s and nowhere near what I would consider fat.

My PS4 replay I noticed this a lot more. Makes me wonder if Michael was originally a much larger character design and he was slimmed down to make it seem more plausible that he could do all the physical activity required of a GTA player character. He really looks pretty good for a pushing 50 guy who doesn't seem to do much of anything.

 

[Monocle]

You're not supposed to compete with the hunks of gaming. (How many people compare guys they meet in real life to game characters anyway?) You're supposed to admire and/or lust after them. A lot of games are power fantasies or escapist adventures. It makes sense for your character to be idealized, unless you're playing some sort of story heavy game where your dude needs to be a schlub.

 

[thelastcrusader]

Feeling inadequate as a result of being faced with idealized examples of masculine bodies isn't the same as looking to videogames for self affirmation.

It's the exact same issue with cinema and TV, where the majority of male protagonists share the same features (though videogames are probably even less diverse).

It's a problem, and the ones benefiting are the beauty/gym/roid-industry.

Exercise is great, but the current male ideal is something that causes a lot of grief for a lot of young men. There's no way around that. I see tons of kids working their ass off at the gym, only to be too tired to put in actual school work (both boys and girls). And there's some serious anger coming from those unable to reach those ideals. And a lot of scorn from those who do.


The only solution is, as usual, to highlight the issue and push for more diversity in representation.

I'm really looking forward to Feminist Frequency's male-oriented series, as I think it can do a lot of good. But it's been a bit quiet about it for quite a while.

Glad to see some people here actually see my point.
It's like people forget that guys can get eating disorders, body dysmorphic disorder, and low self-esteem. I can tell you if I were 13 and chubby again, I would feel like shit if every single character I played was just flaunting his abs. It wouldn't be an escape but a reminder that I'm chunky.

 

[saturnine]

If only the idea that games are about wish fulfilment and "not real life escapism" could finally die, especially amongst core enthusiasts. Maybe then we would have a little more diversity and deeper narratives.

Same thing with the ludicrous appeal to "realism" that is repeated more and more frequently when the subject is brought up. Almost all "action movie" protagonists are already killing machines capable of entirely inhuman feats that wouldn't feel off in fascist propaganda. Would them not being physical übermensch on top of that really break your immersion that much?

 

[KonradLaw]

They're peak humans. I don';t see how it's somehow logically acceptable for a dude to kill humdreds of people with easr, but somehow retaining six pack suddenly becomes impossible for him? Action games star action heroes.
You want less idealized men play adventure games. That's where the ordinary men hide in videgame industry.

 

[DistortionOfReality]

I don't really want to play videogames to be reminded of my own physical inadequacy. I'd rather play as someone who is actually up to the task

 

[{insert code here}]

Be honest, would you want to play a GTA game with protag that looks like Danny Devito?

Hell yes I would lol.

I think it's interesting you point out Drake because he's not who I think of when I think about unrealistic male protagonists. Maybe it's where I live idk but for me the roided out muscle monsters are just as bad as the lightly and inappropriately dressed huge breasted females that are everywhere in video games. And then there's the the obvious Japanese androgynous male leads. It's hard to find characters like Agent 47 for example who is literally the only bald character I've ever seen on a video game box.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Hell yes I would lol.

I think it's interesting you point out Drake because he's not who I think of when I think about unrealistic male protagonists. Maybe it's where I live idk but for me the roided out muscle monsters are just as bad as the lightly and inappropriately dressed huge breasted females that are everywhere in video games. And then there's the the obvious Japanese androgynous male leads. It's hard to find characters like Agent 47 for example who is literally the only bald character I've ever seen on a video game box.

Kratos is bald. Even though he is pretty ripped.

 

[Auto-Reply]

My low self esteem is not influenced by some handsome polygon devil.
But I was heavily influenced by the Schwarzenegger mania in the late 80's, it took quite a while until it dawned on me that the professional bodybuilder figur is more work/effort and needs more time than I'd like to put into it, on top of not really being the prefered bodyform by the other sex, majorily speaking.

So media has influenced me in the way I look at the idealized male body in the past, it warps it to a degree (of course this goes for the female body aswell) I sincerely doubt that videogames are able to have the same effect than celebrities and films.

I have to say though that I am not making the media in general responsible for these effects to the degree that I think that they need to be adjusted so they project a reasonable and healthy view on how we as a society should look at ourselves in a morally correct way.
Not sure I'm getting my point across here but there is something deeply disturbing in the idea that we need to adjust our media in order to be able to look at ourselves or how we should look at ourselves.
I know that media has power, I really hope it does not have that much power over us because that would be a huge disappointment.

 

[Monocle]

If only the idea that games are about wish fulfilment and "not real life escapism" could finally die, especially amongst core enthusiasts. Maybe then we would have a little more diversity and deeper narratives.

Same thing with the ludicrous appeal to "realism" that is repeated more and more frequently when the subject is brought up. Almost all "action movie" protagonists are already killing machines capable of entirely inhuman feats that wouldn't feel off in fascist propaganda. Would them not being physical übermensch on top of that really break your immersion that much?

I mean, you're arguing for male characters to be less fit and attractive. That's kind of a hard sell for an image based medium where the vast majority of customers expect heroes to look heroic by current standards.

If someone wants to play as some tubby balding guy so they can feel better about themselves, I guess that's valid, but it's a highly unrealistic expectation for games that don't have custom character options.

And personally speaking, I'd rather my guy looked stylish or hot than relatable.

 

[Chaos17]

Video games are fictional, so the characters are so seriously this is a stupid point of view of OP. Only moment you can make something close to your look is when there a character creator and even there people won't create themselves in game.

People like fiction since ages ago whatever the medium is and it's not because of low self esteem at all, lol