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Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales
- Thread starter Auto_aim1
- Start date
The Faceless Master
Member
it was sarcasm, sorry.ThoseDeafMutes said:
fabricated backlash
Member
Zaptruder said:
The moment gaming goes all digital will be the moment I quit it for good. Unless consumer rights get completely revamped for such a shift, I won't spend money to rent licenses.
I would buy all my console games digitally if a) they didnt put the price at £59.99 (looking at you halo reach, STILL on marketplace for that outlandish price) and b) they came out on launch.
No physical disk = no second hand market.
But no way would they devs get the market reach they do without the physical copies, so what you gonna do.
Personally I didnt mind the Battlefield "purchase this code to unlock multiplayer" thing, I got the game second hand but the devs still got something. Not really something they could of done with Heavy Rain.
No physical disk = no second hand market.
But no way would they devs get the market reach they do without the physical copies, so what you gonna do.
Personally I didnt mind the Battlefield "purchase this code to unlock multiplayer" thing, I got the game second hand but the devs still got something. Not really something they could of done with Heavy Rain.
To Far Away Times
Member
A better way to get more sales is to make a game that is actually worth playing.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Because they don't factor this kind of thing into the steep rrp already. It's your industries business model dude, deal with it.
_Alkaline_
Member
The Praiseworthy said:
The word 'epic' horribly misused in modern society, but using it to describe the utter shite that is Heavy Rain is almost nauseating.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
"Dev's Gotta Eat Yo'"
Rather than be, 2 million people enjoyed our game and bought it, and another million gave it a try, we will work harder to bring a better product to the market, so from those extra million that took a risk/chance thanks, hopefully next time we can create sales/purchases off them from future products
Not
Waaaahhhhhh, look @ DAT monies I haz no moarz. People playing free, I'm entitled, no I demand to be compensated. Why should those pricks who borrowed/rented/traded/used sale get to play my masterpiece. Don't they know we achieved 2 million sales, if they spent $60 and hated it LOL @ You, I got paid, so it's the users fault, not ours.
Rather than be, 2 million people enjoyed our game and bought it, and another million gave it a try, we will work harder to bring a better product to the market, so from those extra million that took a risk/chance thanks, hopefully next time we can create sales/purchases off them from future products
Not
Waaaahhhhhh, look @ DAT monies I haz no moarz. People playing free, I'm entitled, no I demand to be compensated. Why should those pricks who borrowed/rented/traded/used sale get to play my masterpiece. Don't they know we achieved 2 million sales, if they spent $60 and hated it LOL @ You, I got paid, so it's the users fault, not ours.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Jarmel said:
Developers need to understand games are commodity as any other. They can think of themselves as second coming of Jesus, gift to masses, but for majority of people games are a product, not Holy Grail. Developers feel as entitled in this industry as gamers do.
In the end developers have a right to limit used games sales any way they want. EA made 10-15 million EUR on Online Passes. I would argue loss of goodwill has been many times that.
I'll never understand this ridiculous argument. So if a game disc stays in the same home and is played over and over again, that's fine, but if the first owner is bored with it and passes it on to someone else, and the total time that the game spends inside consoles is identical, that's a big problem because different people were holding the controllers at different times?
Coming around 2013: game developers calculate the average game length and then call anyone spending more time than that playing it a "thief".
"We designed a 60-hour game and priced it at $60, but I'm looking at trophy data and seeing people putting 200, 300 hours into it. They should have been paying $200-300 for that entertainment."
Coming around 2013: game developers calculate the average game length and then call anyone spending more time than that playing it a "thief".
"We designed a 60-hour game and priced it at $60, but I'm looking at trophy data and seeing people putting 200, 300 hours into it. They should have been paying $200-300 for that entertainment."
Coming in 2014: "anti-trophies" that secretly bill your PS Store account when you play the game for more hours than the developer feels $60 is worth
MrCookiepants
Member
The game far exceeded sales expectations. Shouldn't he be more than happy with that?
BlazingDarkness
Member
Heavy Rain hate thread #353564574
Lord Ghirahim
Member
You can say that when you've started refunding remorseful first-hand buyers. It's only fair.
This is GAF. Hyperbole rules here. With enough time you can find hatred for any popular game from Mass Effect to - it's not there yet but we're gettng there - Deus Ex: Human Revolution.The Praiseworthy said:
Plus, as usual the haters will be 10x louder than those who like the game.
Proud to be part of the 2 million buyers.
to haters.
DiscoJer
Member
Zaptruder said:
I don't think DD is going to be all rosy for console publishers either.
It's likely going to drive more and more people to PC gaming, where the competition keeps prices fairly low, and you don't really have to worry about your games suddenly not working in a few years because a platform jump with no BC. You also have just a huge selection, even if you are one of those people that is Steam only. But beyond that, one of the nice things about PC gaming is that old games can look at good as new when you get new hardware. So older titles you've missed can compete with brand new titles (that you might have to run on lower settings).
Beyond that, used game sales helps drive new game sells. People take a lot of the money they get from selling games and sink it into new games. After all, the used game sellers are the ones that are new game buyers.
cvxfreak said:I lent my copy of john tv. Guess that makes us evil.
Oh no you didn't!
We love Fondaumiere, he speaks his mind. Up front, non edited, without PR consent!
Although he is going a bit overboard (Justifiably in my opinion) the industry needs to take notice of the amount lost by second hand trade and and the HUGH cost to the consumer per title.
Before the economic collapse and an increased VAT rate (in UK) I would frown at those who kept lending copies because each copy sold does make a difference especially to a smaller developer.
However today with the cost of games, the amount of titles that come out within the same period the only way to help promote and experience titles we love is via the second hand market and lending games.
This month alone has:
Deus Ex (40)
Driver San Fran (40)
Resistance 3 (40)
Dead Island (40)
El Shaddai (40)
Gears of War 3 (40)
Total: 240 JUST on games! I cant afford that along with life costs! The only way for me to do it, is trading in games and lending titles.
Plus it's only September! Let's not forget how costly November will be, along with whatever DLC is in the pipeline.
I really liked Heavy Rain and the voice acting (I'm not talking but english voice acting, but my own country voice acting).
Play it from start to finish in two days but I'm very angry about them for one reason:
Where is my DLC?! I bought the Limited Edition that came with one DLC they told us they would bring more DLC but nothing...then they told us they were waiting for PS MOVE so they could apply the PS Move to the upcoming DLC then... nothing.
So, let them cry all they want about second hand market, while I cry about second hand devs who can't make a promisse count.
Play it from start to finish in two days but I'm very angry about them for one reason:
Where is my DLC?! I bought the Limited Edition that came with one DLC they told us they would bring more DLC but nothing...then they told us they were waiting for PS MOVE so they could apply the PS Move to the upcoming DLC then... nothing.
So, let them cry all they want about second hand market, while I cry about second hand devs who can't make a promisse count.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I fail to see anything wrong with the quoted comments.
For those people saying "he doesn't get it", I'd say to them: You don't understand the economics of the business. Bottom line is games are high-risk ventures, and if the return on investment isn't enticing enough to attract the money they will simply stop being made.
The thin end of the wedge is what we're seeing now, extreme risk aversion in publisher commissioning, making any title that isn't aimed at the bullseye of the mass market extremely hard to get funded. The thick-end is a situation where outside of massive franchises like Madden/Fifa/CoD/Halo etc. there is nothing else worthy of a retail release.
For those people saying "he doesn't get it", I'd say to them: You don't understand the economics of the business. Bottom line is games are high-risk ventures, and if the return on investment isn't enticing enough to attract the money they will simply stop being made.
The thin end of the wedge is what we're seeing now, extreme risk aversion in publisher commissioning, making any title that isn't aimed at the bullseye of the mass market extremely hard to get funded. The thick-end is a situation where outside of massive franchises like Madden/Fifa/CoD/Halo etc. there is nothing else worthy of a retail release.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Massa said:
Except it doesn't work - Steam prices are the same as at retail, and you do not have retail chain dominance as you have on PS360. The only games that sell for lower than 59.99MSRP are indie games.
Clear said:
Make a game in a timely fashion, with robust multiplayer to keep people interested, have clear DLC schedule to add features and earn money. 6 hour SP game, with no multiplayer, costing 20/30/40/50 million USD to make because of OMFG AMAZING TECH is not going to cut it anymore. A lot of "high-risk ventures" are high risk because the developers were too stupid to leverage those risks.
Night_Trekker
Member
Every time a dev/pub whines about used sales, I smile
No matter what you think of the quality of Heavy Rain, if you didn't trade it in, sell it, or give it away after finishing it you are an idiot. It's a fairly short game where the creator demands you don't play it through a second time. Once you're done it's just an expensive coaster.Nugg said:
Mailenstein
Member
Definitely gonna buy their next game used, because of this cryaton.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Shocked at the Heavy Rain hate. Skimmed and read hyperboles of "piss poor voice acting" (USA version?) and "terrible story". Everyone has their own opinion . But jeez. I thought it was a great experience.
Air Zombie Meat said:
It is likely to have been factored in.
Even then, regardless of whether it was or not, its still a loss.
Castor Krieg said:
I think they understand it, hence why lately we have all these new programs in place to try to make money aside from first hand sales.
IMO its the gamers that don't seem to want to understand that.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Jarmel said:
I'm going to play angel's advocate with this. By buying used games, you're encouraging the used sales market (in which the developer's have already have been paid for the 1st sale of the copy) while with piracy it doesn't benefit anybody due to no monetary exchange will ever take place. That copy belongs to me. I own the disc, box, pamphlet (used to be instruction manual, ah the good days). I can burn it, smash it, destroy it. There is no law that states I can't second hand sell this, trade, give away (goodwill...go see a Free to a Good Home thread...those bastards!)
How about that B/S/T community thread, Damn those commies paying $60 then playing said $60 game, once filled up, no reason to hold on, sell it @ decent low price for others to enjoy....shocking
Make a game that people will want to keep or make a game where those "lost" customers would by the game new.
I hate all this second hand crying. What makes it any different from any other second hand market where the initial vendor sees nothing from future sales.
When I read this stuff you never see the hard to calculate figures such as a second hand buyer of game A will be so impressed with it that they will buy game B by the same developer brand new.
How about thinking about this in a different way. Pick a timescale for new game prices and then at the point where second hand games are entering the market heavily, discount the brand new game to that price point on DD networks.
I'd buy new over second hand at a similar price point every time.
I hate all this second hand crying. What makes it any different from any other second hand market where the initial vendor sees nothing from future sales.
When I read this stuff you never see the hard to calculate figures such as a second hand buyer of game A will be so impressed with it that they will buy game B by the same developer brand new.
How about thinking about this in a different way. Pick a timescale for new game prices and then at the point where second hand games are entering the market heavily, discount the brand new game to that price point on DD networks.
I'd buy new over second hand at a similar price point every time.
The fact that the game was a terrible turd will cost the follow-up millions in sales as well. The people who think the game is good must be mentally ill because that's like saying The Room is a good film. Heavy Rain has some neat ideas but the actual game is just a disaster. At best the game is so bad that it becomes funny.
Castor Krieg said:
At launch, sure, but games often make more money post-launch when they go on sale. Left 4 Dead, for instance, made more money during a weekend sale than at launch.
With games like Heavy Rain a lot of people don't think it's worth $60. With the digital model these people would wait for a sale and buy it for much less than that; with the current retail model, these people would either buy it used or rent it. In either case it's not the people who funded the game that make money and that's bad for the industry.
Portal 2 for example is now $30 on Steam. It will be sold for much less than that by the end of the year and Valve will continue to make money from it. In the console space people are just playing the same copies EA sold at launch.
Night_Trekker
Member
Clear said:
Publishers need to:
1) Reign in their budgets. Every game doesn't need to be "AAA" in every single way. Higher budgets mean more games need to be sold to recoup the dev/publishing costs and turn a profit.
2) Be more realistic when targeting/projecting sales. Not every game is going to be the next Modern Warfare, no matter how good it is or how well it is advertised. Go for lower print runs targeting smaller segments of the install base.
3) Develop for platforms with lower dev costs. A no-brainer.
4) Go DD-only if they think they can afford to do it. That should give them more of the draconian control of their customers they desire.
5) Have a good, long cry that they can't stop people from re-selling their own fucking property.