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[01011001]

like I said, Sony, being the customer unfriendly company they are, artificially stopped VRR support until their terrible TVs are ready to support it

 

[ethomaz]

Yes that's correct.
I was surprised to see no difference on ps5 when playing 4k40fps120hz ratchet. People said that 4:2:2 looks worse but I couldn't detect anything wrong.
So full on always 120hz on ps5 would be welcome

Because artifacts from chroma subsampling are visible in smaller text.
Video and imagem is barely noticeable... 4:4:4 and 4:2:0 are virtually the same in 4k for image and movies.

"Now, its importance with smaller text is undeniable, but what about with movies? 4:2:0 subsampling has been an industry standard for a long time now, and it isn't without reason. The benefits of having full color in video are debatable, especially at 4k. It would be tough to recognize the difference between a full 4:4:4 sequence and the same content in 4:2:0.

4:2:0 is almost lossless visually, which is why it can be found used in Blu-ray discs and a lot of modern video cameras. There is virtually no advantage to using 4:4:4 for consuming video content. If anything, it would raise the costs of distribution by far more than its comparative visual impact. This becomes especially true as we move towards 4k and beyond. The higher the resolution and pixel density of future displays, the less apparent subsampling artifacts become."

 

[Skifi28]

My PS5's fan already goes VRRRRRR. I don't need more, they can keep it.

 

[Rea]

Too many grenades go off at once or something of that nature that tanks the performance.

Rachet And Clank on PS5 has so many shits going- on on screen and still lock frame rates, its all up to Developer.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I'm saying yes Returnal devs shipped the game dropping to 40fps... it is a fixed hardware after all... they know it.
There is no anomalies that the dev didn't know in a fixed hardware rendering.

The hardware is fixed... it runs exactly the same in every single machine.
The framerate the dev shipped will be the same to everybody... so it in dev hands to ship a constant framerate game.

There is no random variable.


That is not random... that is a expected behavior that dev coded to happen.
You know the limit of how many grenades can be throw at the same time was set by the dev themselves.... including the animation, effects, physics, etc.
Same for the number of enemies... etc etc etc.

The developer has control from all of that.

so you are saying housemarq developed the game to drop framerate?

imagine if there was a technology that could see that drop happen and update the screens refresh rate to mirror it perfectly, so to me the game would still feel smooth with no framerate issues, no tearing and still provide an excellent experience not a stuttery mess for 10s of seconds of gameplay?

why wouldn’t we welcome that?

 

[assurdum]

Did you even look at the link? That's an old page. I have an X90J. It got the firmware update for the PS5 auto tone mapping about a month ago. Look at that page, there is nothing talking about VRR there. It's all about the auto-settings Bravia's have for the PS5. The January 2022 date was them covering their ass. The update is already out. If you have one of the 2021 TVs, and update it, the next time you turn on your PS5 it'll detect the settings and auto-configure the HDR.

Do you even have one of these Bravias or a PS5 or are you just console warring?

I have a Bravia of 2021 and VRR update was released in late November. I have the suspicious your Bravia doesn't support it and never will, I guess.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Rachet And Clank on PS5 has so many shits going- on on screen and still lock frame rates, its all up to Developer.

I completely agree but there is only so many devs that are that good and on a level of insomniac. Also, it’s pretty obvious that ratchet is running comfortably over the framerate lock to ensure no drops happen. They are basically sacrificing headroom to ensure a locked experience.

 

[Sosokrates]

Sony are being really slow on this feature, 1.5yrs after the competition, not the best outcome, but at least its better then not having the feature at all.

 

[Fredrik]

The "problem" with showing off VRR is actually not what you can see, but what you don't see t judder, tearing, input lag etc., because how are you going to show people all those drawback if the're not there anymore?

In real life it’s easy to show by just deactivating and activating it. But if you’re trying to show it off remotely online to someone trying to understand why it’s awesome you’re out of luck.

 

[ethomaz]

so you are saying housemarq developed the game to drop framerate?

imagine if there was a technology that could see that drop happen and update the screens refresh rate to mirror it perfectly, so to me the game would still feel smooth with no framerate issues, no tearing and still provide an excellent experience not a stuttery mess for 10s of seconds of gameplay?

why wouldn’t we welcome that?

That is exactly my point.
Devs are shipping unfinished games... I'm loud about that even before that VRR discussion.

VRR is a required feature for next-gen console.
But VRR should not be needed for games imo... developers should target and optimize fixed framerates.

Developers needs to stop to ship messed and/or unfinished games.

 

[Rea]

like I said, Sony, being the customer unfriendly company they are, artificially stopped VRR support until their terrible TVs are ready to support it

You mean the terrible TV called A90J which won the best TV award in 2021?

 

[assurdum]

That is exactly my point.
Devs are shipping unfinished games... I'm loud about that even before that VRR discussion.

VRR is a required feature for next-gen console.
But VRR should not be needed for all games imo.

Developers needs to stop to ship messed and/or unfinished games.

Ask no tearing to Ubisoft is pure utopia. Unfortunately VRR is the only alternative to them.

 

[MonarchJT]

sure
stop talking ...better start to deliver on your promises

 

[assurdum]

sure
stop talking ...better start to deliver on your promises

You should pretend the same to MS if I can say.

 

[ethomaz]

Ask no tearing to Ubisoft is pure utopia. Unfortunately VRR is the only alternative to them.

Stop to buy their games and you see what is utopia .

The game industry is become worst and worst with delivery... they basically release any shit to fix after with post patches.
When they started to see the sales of their games dropping they will start to take the time to delivery finished products from day one.

Just follow exemple of developers that releases full finished games with locked performance from day one.

Why some devs can but Ubisoft not?

 

[rofif]

sure
stop talking ...better start to deliver on your promises

Watch the video... There is no statement by sony. And no date by vincent. He is just guessing

 

[assurdum]

Stop to buy their games and you see what is utopia .

The game industry is become worst and worst with delivery... they basically release any shit to fix after with post patches.
When they started to see the sales of their games dropping they will start to take the time to delivery finished products from day one.

Just follow exemple of developers that releases full finished games with locked performance from day one.

Why some devs can but Ubisoft not?

Probably depending on the nature of the engine? Not everything is easily fixable

 

[ethomaz]

Probably depending on the nature of the engine? Not everything is easily fixable

Do you think they ship unfinished games due the Engine?
Man each excuse people made up lol

Imagine even using the same engine (Unreal Engine 4) and have a game with lazy framerate and other with solid framerate... what will be your made up excuse?

 

[assurdum]

Do you think they ship unfinished games due the Engine?
Man each excuse people made up lol

Let's say that to DICE, CDPR, Ubisoft, etc etc etc.

Tearing has nothing to do to unfinished games ....

 

[ManaByte]

I have a Bravia of 2021 and VRR update was released in late November. I have the suspicious your Bravia doesn't support it and never will, I guess.

I have an X90J, it's the 2021 model. If they don't give it VRR then it's the last Bravia I ever buy.

 

[assurdum]

I have an X90J, it's the 2021 model. If they don't give it VRR then it's the last Bravia I ever buy.

I don't know what to tell you. VRR update is there on my X85JP.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ive already got a PS5, had one ages.

I'll be talking about all the apologies and backpedalling when people realise what a great feature it is.

An even greater perspective is one where you shut up about it...

 

[ethomaz]

Tearing has nothing to do to unfinished games ....

Tearing has everything to do with unfinished games...
There are several ways to devs fix, avoid, etc tearing without need any post bandaid.

Why most PS5 games doesn't have tearing? Think a bit about that.

 

[omegasc]

Fixed refresh rates were the problem to begin with: a tech limitation that got (at least partially) solved. One of the benefits of having higher refresh rate monitors before VRR was to enable more steps for v-sync to drop to, trying to make stutters less noticeable.
VRR is the solution to a problem. You will hardly notice the game dropping to 40fps on a good monitor/TV, and devs can push visuals whenever needed while taking care that the framerate does not drop too much. "Lazy" devs can use it as a clutch but do you see those caring enough to optimize for 60 anyway?

 

[assurdum]

Tearing has everything to do with unfinished games...
There are several ways to devs fix, avoid, etc tearing without need any post bandaid.

Why most PS5 games doesn't have tearing? Think a bit about that.

Not true at all. Just depending to the engine nature/flexibility. Not everything is tied to laziness.

 

[ethomaz]

Not true at all. Just depending to the engine.

So why the same engine can have a game with tearing and others without?
I mean most PS5 games doesn't have tearing and uses the same engine of others platforms.

Gamers in the past = blame the dev for tearing in games.
"Gamers " today = blame the consumer for tearing in games.

 

[assurdum]

So why the same engine can have a game with tearing and others without?
I mean most PS5 games doesn't have tearing and uses the same engine of others platforms.

As? From what I know at 60 FPS Ubisoft games on console have some issue to maintain vsync constantly. Why Ubisoft has never fixed it if it was that easy? They improve the performance in later patch in every their releases but seems impossible eliminate completely the tearing. The only reasonable explanation seems is not fixable completely.

 

[MonarchJT]

You should pretend the same to MS if I can say.

I do ?

 

[assurdum]

I do ?

 

[ethomaz]

As? From what I know at 60 FPS Ubisoft games on console have some issue to maintain vsync constantly. Why Ubisoft has never fixed it if it was that easy? They improve the performance in later patch in every their releases but seems impossible eliminate completely the tearing.

You are talking about Valhalla, no? Because it is the only Ubisoft PS5 game with tearing.
You should ask why Ubisoft never fixed it? I already explained to you buy you seems to not understand... why should they fix something when the gamer will accept they unfinished game without think twice?

Valhalla is a clear example of what I'm talking about.

 

[01011001]

You mean the terrible TV called A90J which won the best TV award in 2021?

their TVs are bad for gaming... they are always 2 years behind the competition in terms of features.

a 2021 TV with no 4k120hz VRR support is. or a good TV for gaming

compare that to LG TVs that have not only HDMI2.1 VRR but also freesync and Gsync support

 

[assurdum]

You are talking about Vanalla, no? Because it is the only Ubisoft PS5 game with tearing.
You should ask why Ubisoft never fixed it? I already explained to you buy you seems to not understand... why should they fix something when the gamer will accept they unfinished game without think twice?

All the Ubisoft games at 60 FPS have soft vsync on console. Maybe the sport games or the BC ones are graced.

 

[ethomaz]

All the Ubisoft games at 60 FPS have soft vsync on console. Maybe the sport games or the BC ones are graced.

So why only Valhalla has tearing? Bingo.

 

[intbal]

I know, I know.

But still, variable refresh rate has been a thing (or rather, a must-have) for pc gaming for quite some time now.

It's actually awesome that consoles now get to participate. It really is a game-changer.

Xbox One S/X have had variable refresh rate support since the April 2018 update.
Although we were mostly confined to monitors at the time, so it was "little" gaming.

 

[assurdum]

So why only Valhalla has tearing? Bingo.

I have Watchdog Legion, Far Cry 5. They exhibit tearing and from what I seen on VGTECH channel practically every Ubisoft games suffer of tearing at 60 FPS on console. Where do you get only Valhalla have it? The only way to have Ubisoft games totally vsyncred it's select the 30 FPS.

 

[ParaSeoul]

I have Watchdog Legion, Far Cry 5. They exhibit tearing and from what I seen on VGTECH channel practically every Ubisoft games suffer of tearing at 60 FPS on console. Where do you get only Valhalla have it? The only way to have totally vsyncred it's 30 FPS.

The solution is simple. Stop buying Ubisoft games.

 

[ethomaz]

I have Watchdog Legion, Far Cry 5. They exhibit tearing and from what I seen on VGTECH channel practically every Ubisoft games suffer of tearing at 60 FPS on console. Where do you get only Valhalla have it? The only way to have Ubisoft games totally vsyncred it's select the 30 FPS.

So you are not happy with their games, why you continue buying them and not force the dev to change this behavior?
Like I said it is an example of what I said before... unfinished games being released and never fixed.

I believe the last Ubisoft games I played was AC: Resurrection on PS3?

 

[assurdum]

Xbox One S/X have had variable refresh rate support since the April 2018 update.
Although we were mostly confined to monitors at the time, so it was "little" gaming.

It was AMD Freesync not VRR.

 

[Kerotan]

So it was all about their TVs this whole time? Such a weird thing to get hung up on...

Is it going to work with all 2.1 enabled TVs and monitors or just Bravia?

Well I'm sure they pay royalties on this software tech like VRR so I presume they didn't want to enable it until their new range of tvs were out?

Technically you can do 4K res at 120hz with 32GBps if you lower BitRate to 10 instead of 12 and use 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 instead of 4:4:4 (RGB) but that's a shitty concesion to have to make

Didn't sony say they will increase the bandwidth in the ports when the time comes? Not that you'll be playing games at full 4k 120fps anyway lol.

Image quality only degrades on sony TVs that do not really support 4k120 like the x9...h/j (xh/j90) series. When you set your console to 60hz + VRR on those TVs everything should be fine. But as 120 FPS games are not that great in image quality on current gen consoles, it might still be a good sacrifice.

The Sony x90j with it's bravia XR processor and full hdmi 2.1 ports do support it?

 

[tommib]

You mean the terrible TV called A90J which won the best TV award in 2021?

Sony TVs are state of the art stuff but of course someone on GAF will shit on them because SONY!

 

[assurdum]

So you are not happy with their games, why you continue buying them and not force the dev to change this behavior?

Probably because I have fun to play with them? You can't force the developers to put vsync. We can't know what the reason of such issue and I doubt it's simple laziness. If Ubisoft was that lazy won't improve constantly performance in their games via patches even months later the release.

 

[ethomaz]

Probably because I have fun to play with them? You can't force the developers to put vsync. We can't know what the reason of such issue and I doubt it's simple laziness. If Ubisoft was that lazy won't improve constantly performance in their games via patches even months later the release.

So you are part of why the industry release games like game sadly

I will just left something here... it is becoming worst each new year... it was already a thing with PS4 and now PS5 become even a bigger issue.

 

[ParaSeoul]

I don't think I've played anything on PS5 so far that had screen tearing. Pretty much none on PS4 too except for Saints Row 4 but that was just a mess in general.

 

[assurdum]

So you are part of why the industry release games like game sadly

It's not all white and black as you try to simplify. I ask to you if tearing is easily flexible why Ubisoft can't, meanwhile improve the FPS via patch? Probably they could cause frame pacing issue or who know what .

 

[tommib]

I don't think I've played anything on PS5 so far that had screen tearing. Pretty much none on PS4 too except for Saints Row 4 but that was just a mess in general.

I remember some very slight tearing on Deathloop but I was playing the 60 fps Quality Mode. All good with Performance Mode.

 

[ethomaz]

I don't think I've played anything on PS5 so far that had screen tearing. Pretty much none on PS4 too except for Saints Row 4 but that was just a mess in general.

There is few games on PS5 (or PS4) that has screen tearing.
It is rare but it does exists... Valhalla is an example.
Most PS5 (PS4) games are VSynced btw... I suspect the PS5 (PS4) SDK has forced VSync and you need to opt-out to not use it.

Screen tearing is so big a flaw that it fast become meme on internet.

 

[assurdum]

There is few games on PS5 (or PS4) that has screen tearing.
It is rare but it does exists... Valhalla is an example.
Most PS5 (PS4) games are VSynced btw... I suspect the PS5 (PS4) SDK has forced VSync and you need to opt-out to not use it.

I really don't get it your hate for VRR lol. Now we can have more games with vsync and more stable performance but your problems is the developers "laziness".

 

[ethomaz]

I really don't get it your hate for VRR lol. Now we can have more games with vsync and more stable performance but your problems is the developers "laziness".

I don't hate VRR at all... I don't hate bandaid either... in fact it helps a lot in specific cases.... people started to say I'm against VRR because Xbox have it and PS5 not but I'm supporter of games on fixed hardware (consoles) not needing VRR since before... said that it was Sony huge mistake not putting VRR since day one as an option on PS5.

I hate games are not delivered like it should... you should not need VRR at all in a fixed hardware because you don't have anything variable on the end-user.... it is the same for all of them.

In a fixed hardware the developer can be 100% sure they are delivering the target framerate they wish... so the VRR is just something not needed if the game was delivered correct.

 

[TheFawz]

Didn't sony say they will increase the bandwidth in the ports when the time comes? Not that you'll be playing games at full 4k 120fps anyway lol.

Never heard of such a statement, but the community theorized it was technically possible for them to increase the bandwidth without a hardware refresh.

It's more about the output resolution than the render one in this case, so yes many games can currently and would be run in 4K res 120hz output with most supporting HDR so you want to keep 10bit minimum for that

 

[Physiognomonics]

VRR in 2022 would mean only 5 years after the main competitor. Not bad.