• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Warriors Series Community Thread | Analyzing the complexities of Square and Triangle

ZhugeEX

Banned
Hi guys.

As some will probably guess by my avatar, I love musou games.

Therefore I have written this report on the sales of Musou games over the year.
This report looks at three things
- Yearly sales of Musou games
- Revenue for Musou games
- Number of games/new IP's released per year

Please read it and enjoy it.

Musou sales in Japan 2000-2014

KT_zpsb0d013d4.jpg


The following report looks at Musou sales in Japan between 2000 and 2014. The chart below shows three things, how many units of Musou games were sold each year in Japan, How much revenue was generated each year by musou games and how many musou games were released each year.

This report will show how this chart was calculated and analyse the results. I hope you all find it interesting.

musou_zps7df51477.jpg

(Red is sales, Green is revenue)

Methodology

Game
The games used in the chart above are only Musou games. This includes the Dynasty Warriors, Samurai Warriors, Warriors Orochi, Dynasty Warriors Gundam, Fist of the North Star, One Piece pirate warriors, Warriors of Troy and Hyrule Warriors games. I have included all musou games whether they be on PS3, PSP or Xbox. I have not included games like Bladestorm or Dynasty Tactics as I do not class them as musou games. Each game is seperated by release date. For example Dynasty Warriors Gundam for PS3 came out in 2007, therefore the sales are added to the 2007 total. The PS2 version was released in 2008 and therefore the PS2 version sales has been added to 2008. Same applies to Dynasty Warriors 6.

Sales
Sales data is from various sources such as Famitsu, Media Create, Dengeki and KOEI themselves. The data for Japan is highly accurate. Here is the method I used to calculate yearly sales of musou games- Dynasty Warriors 3 was released in 2001 and sold 1,150,000 units. These units were sold across the main release, the re release for the same console one year later and the BEST version released after as well. Despite this all the sales for DW3 have been included in the 2001 total as this is when the game was released. So therefore as you can see the total for 2001 is 1,150,000 as that is when DW3 was actually released.

Revenue
Revenue is worked out on a per game basis. For example, Dynasty Warriors for PS3 may have an RRP of ¥7560, yet the PSP version may only retail at ¥5040. This is why in 2008 there is more sales than 2007 but less revenue. Because in 2008 the games were not high value and revenue was not high for the games released that year. In 2007 there were more high profile high budget releases. Revenue is worked out for each game individually then added together to create the year total.

Conclusion

KOEI released it's first 3D action musou game in 2000 with the aim to sell one million copies worldwide. In Japan the game was successful and sold 350,000. Worldwide the game fell just short of a million and so KOEI developed and released their second musou game, Dynasty Warriors 3 with the same aim of hitting one million worldwide. This time the game was hugely successful and not only did the game sell one million worldwide, it sold over one million in Japan. Thus the musou genre was born and started to grow in Japan.

In 2002, KOEI released Dynasty Warriors 3 Xtreme Legends, despite selling close to a million, revenue was low for the game due to the fact it was a spin off and was being sold at a lower price. In 2003 KOEI released two musou games in one year which pushed sales to 1.83m in Japan and revenues hit ¥10,982m. That's an average of ¥5,500m per game in revenue. 2004 saw the release of 4 musou games including one new IP, Samurai Warriors. This was KOEI best selling year yet with over 2.1m sales in Japan and revenues of ¥11,994m. Despite the release of two more musou games compared to the year before revenue had not increased in the same way and the average revenue per game had actually dropped to around ¥3,000m per game. This was due to the fact that only one high budget game was released in 2004 (SW) and the rest were all spin off games.

In 2005 sales fell slightly but revenue was maintained thanks to high profile releases such as Dynasty Warriors 5 and Dynasty Warriors 5 XL. However, there were the only two big games to be released that year so it's understandable why sales fell. In 2006 Musou game sales and revenue fell heavily despite the same number of games being released as in 2004/5. This drove the average revenue per game down even further to just ¥1565m. Samurai Warriors 2 was the only noticeable release in 2006 and it performed half as well as the original release which is why sales were so low for 2006.

In 2007 KOEI released 2 extra musou games taking the total number of musou games up to 6. Over 1.87m units were sold in 2007 and whilst this wasn't the highest performing sales year it was the highest revenue in one year that KOEI ever had, over ¥14,450m. This was due to two new high budget IP's, Warriors Orochi and Dynasty Warriors Gundam. Along with Dynasty Warriors 6 these were the three high profile releases in 2007 and these games drove sales and revenue up. The average revenue per game for 2007 was around ¥2,450 though which meant that KOEI were having to sell more games to get to the same level as of revenue as they were getting to in 2003/4 with less games being sold.

2008 saw musou sales increase but revenue stayed the same. This was due to a number of repeat sales on older games. For example, Warriors Orochi, Dynasty Warriors 6, Warriors Orochi and Dynasty Warriors Gundam were all released on PSP/PS2 to create repeat sales. As these were re released/ported games the sale price was lower and therefore revenue didn't increase while sales did in 2008. 2009 saw the release of KOEI's flagship title, Samurai Warriors 3. However because the game was sold on the Wii, a platform with little to no Musou fans, sales were very low and revenues even lower. The only other notable release in 2009 was Dynasty Warriors Strikeforce which sold just under 400,000 units but revenues were low due to it being a cheap PSP title. Average revenue per game was now at ¥1,450m which was very low compared to the ¥3,000m average revenue per game in 2004.

Between 2007-2009, KOEI had released 6 musou titles per year. In 2010 KOEI only released four musou games including a new IP, Fist of the North Star. The game sold very well with 660,000 units sold through. This caused revenues to be higher than in 2009 despite sales being lower. The average revenue per game in 2010 was now at around ¥2,400m which was much closer to 2004 and 2007's average revenue per game. 2011 saw KOEI go all out and release 10 musou games in one year. This led to sales of over 2.11m units which was KOEI's best selling year yet in terms of Musou games. Despite this, it meant that the average revenue per game had decreased massively to the same as 2009 (¥1440m). Dynasty Warriors 7 was the highest grossing game in 2011 with ¥3742m in revenues. Dynasty Warriors 4 remains KOEI's highest grossing game to date with ¥8500m in revenue. 2011 matched 2007's sales and revenue but had to release 6 more games to achieve this. So really shows that sales per game and revenue per game was low in 2011.

In 2012 KOEI introduced One Piece Pirate Warriors which was KOEI's third best selling IP after Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors. The game sold 860,000 units on PS3 and allowed KOEI to have a fairly good year in terms of sales. 2013 saw a decrease in sales and revenue but this was due to less games being released. This took the average revenue per game to around ¥1,850m which was slightly higher than 2012 which was ¥1650m per game.

It's clear that Musou games are not selling in the same capacity that they were back during the PS2 era. In fact Dynasty Warriors sales have more than halved the amount sold on the PS3 compared to the PS2. Despite this, sales and revenue per year has been fairly high when compared to 2003-2005. But this has come at a price, KOEI have had to develop many new IP's to keep the musou series selling and has had to release more than 6 musou games per year to get to the same amount of revenue and sales that they had in 2001-2005 when they were previously releasing between 2-4 games per year. The average revenue per game has dropped considerably and It's really only a new IP that will cause a spike in sales in revenue. 2014 is currently looking like another 2006 where sales and revenue will be very low and that is understandable due to the transition between next gen consoles just like in 2006. One thing KOEI has done this generation is release DLC to extend the life of each game and to create additional revenue streams for each game. So even though the revenue per game is lower, KOEI are doing everything they can to maximise.

One final thing worth mentioning is that the cost of development is ever increasing, and KOEI are developing many more games whilst sales and revenue just isn't growing YOY. So even though sales and revenue is the same or higher than they were in 2003-2005 it doesn't mean that the cost to develop the games is the same. It's likely that the cost of development is higher now and KOEI need to develop many more games to get sales to the same level as before.

The bottom line is that Musou is still popular in Japan, not as popular as it once was but it still sells and those sales are now split across many different IP's which means that sales are still just as high as they were in 2003-2004. The main difference being is that KOEI need to release many more games for the sales to add up and for revenue to be high where as in 2004 KOEI could easily rely on just a couple of games to do the same thing. Musou is on a decline in 2014 and I don't see us ever getting back to the revenue and sales levels of 2004, 2008 or 2011 unless KOEI freshen up the series and introduce a very good new musou IP. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future.

EXTRA

Average revenue per game for each year.

¥2380m - 2000 (1 Game)
¥7820m - 2001 (1 Game)
¥3025m - 2002 (1 Game)
¥5490m - 2003 (2 Games)
¥3000m - 2004 (4 Games)
¥2380m - 2005 (4 Games)
¥1565m - 2006 (4 Games)
¥2450m - 2007 (6 Games)
¥3525m - 2008 (6 Games)
¥1435m - 2009 (6 Games)
¥2360m - 2010 (4 Games)
¥1450m - 2011 (10 Games)
¥1635m - 2012 (8 Games)
¥1855m - 2013 (6 Games)

Average units sold per game for each year.

0.35m - 2000 (1 Game)
1.15m - 2001 (1 Game)
0.76m - 2002 (1 Game)
0.92m - 2003 (2 Games)
0.52m - 2004 (4 Games)
0.38m - 2005 (4 Games)
0.26m - 2006 (4 Games)
0.32m - 2007 (6 Games)
0.35m - 2008 (6 Games)
0.23m - 2009 (6 Games)
0.31m - 2010 (4 Games)
0.21m - 2011 (10 Games)
0.24m - 2012 (8 Games)
0.27m - 2013 (6 Games)

For more sales information check out the thread here: http://s13.zetaboards.com/koeiwarriors/topic/7234435/1/
 
Ooh thanks for the analysis ZhugeEx (for god sakes man post 5 more times and hit that member status XD).
The drop in sales explains the numerous Japanese CEs and DLCs from Koei then... Hopefully with their new engine they can improve the iteration for current gen better...
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
Ooh thanks for the analysis ZhugeEx (for god sakes man post 5 more times and hit that member status XD).
The drop in sales explains the numerous Japanese CEs and DLCs from Koei then... Hopefully with their new engine they can improve the iteration for current gen better...

300 posts to be a member?

Didn't know that.

Thanks for the kind words. It's clear that KOEI are using DLC and CE as a way to extend sales and increase the revenue stream. It's an easy way to make money really and it doesn't matter to KOEI whether it sells well or not as it's still going to be profitable to them.

One thing that KOEI mentioned in their fiscal report is that they want to partner or collaborate with others to get the musou genre out there. That's why we saw them advertise Lu Bu with Pepsi and why we've seen Hyrule Warriors and Dragon Quest Heroes. Collaboration is a big buzzword for KOEI at the moment and they seem to be partnering with everyone to get their musou games and other games out there and known.

Regarding PS4. KOEI have taken a different approach this gen. With the PS3 launch KOEI threw themselves in at the deep end and announced 4 new exclusive PS3 games. Most were delayed and one never came out. It cost them money and time and in the end they ended up releasing them on PS2 to make up for lost sales (DW6 and Gundam). With PS4 KOEI are not going to make the same mistake and rather than announcing exclusive PS4 games they are working on their last gen engine and getting as many spin offs done using the old engline on PS3 and porting it to PS4. Even Dragon Quest Heroes and Bladestorm aren't exclusive to this gen, they're also on PS3 as well and I guarantee we'll see it with all games this year. We won't see any true PS4 next gen games from KOEI until 2015. (Plus PS4 sales in Japan isn't exactly convincing any developer to go PS4 exclusive right now...)
 

Torraz

Member
Warriors, and warriors-type games (as in Sengoku Basara), are some of my favorite series for some casual playing after a hard day of work. I have played (and usually enjoyed) a little of Fist of the North Star 1, One PIece 2 (just a few hours), Dynasty Warriors 8 + Xtreme Legends, Gundam Warriors 3, Sengoku Basara 3 Utage, and Sengoku Basara 4.

My question is, which of these warrior(-type) games has the least amount of baby sitting of your fellow troops and/or the smartest/strongest allies? It annoys me, currenly in Dynasty Warriors 8 that I am punished with a loss of allies, due to their complete worthlessness.

I really liked being able to focus mostly on the fighting in somewhat straightforward/linear levels in Sengoku basara 4, but now I am slightly burned out from that game, and I do like the larger mobs of enemies in the warriors games.

Is there a specific warriors game you would recommend? I hear many people saying that warriors orochi 3 is one of the best of these type of games. Does it have a lot of babysitting troops / camps?

Thanks!
 

L Thammy

Member
Hi guys.

Have some fantastic numbers porn

Great work. Did you post this in the Media Create thread as well? There might be some interest in it.

I do think it's a bit of a mistake to claim that sales are divided among other titles. If Koei needs to release a larger amount of titles (at increasing budgets, most likely) in order to reach the same sales, that's a problem because a large part of the original audience has left. The crossover games likely draw in audiences that are attracted to the IP and not to the series. I know that I've had a Fist of the North Star fan friend ask me about Ken's Rage. They can only maintain that audience if they keep working with that particular IP and if the curious fans decide to stick around.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
So, fellow musou-ites. Who else hates the Hyrule Warriors 'weak point' system? Because brother, I sure do. Every fight with a general just becomes dragged out for time because they REALLY want you to use their weak point system which just makes it not only tedious but incredibly boring. I get that it's Zelda flavoring, but I can't stand it and hope it doesn't show up in any sequels. And it's not like it makes the bosses harder, I find in this particular game that the only things that hurt are the giant monsters. It's not like Orochi on harder difficulties where a surprise musou at low hp can murder you.

Not to mention the disparity between different enemy types exposing their weak points. Some will show it constantly, but the armored lizardos will almost never show it. Other enemies will give you like a .5 second time frame of exposure on theirs.
 

NeonZ

Member
I just wish the weak point system triggered extra damage, rather than having to hit them several times for a short cutscene attack. Individual 1 vs 1 battles generally don't feel satisfying in DW (even when they're long, like beating powered up Lu Bu), but this kind of fixed them to me.

Regarding making them harder, well, this generally results in longer battles so they end up getting some hits in. It's true that the damage generally isn't big, but I've found myself with low hp several times - although, yeah, I didn't die nearly as much here as in Warriors Orochi 3 (Himiko...).
 

nynt9

Member
What are the best Warriors games? HW was quite fun and I enjoyed DW8XLCE, but not as much as HW. Samurai Warriors 4 looks pretty great. I like the more fantastical take on the gameplay. Regardless, what are everyone's top 5 Musou games?
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
What are the best Warriors games? HW was quite fun and I enjoyed DW8XLCE, but not as much as HW. Samurai Warriors 4 looks pretty great. I like the more fantastical take on the gameplay. Regardless, what are everyone's top 5 Musou games?

-Samurai Warriors 4
-Warriors Orochi 3 Utimate
-Hyrule Warriors
-Fist Of The North Star: Ken's Rage
-Dynasty Warriors 8 XL

I think that would be my current top five. Only counting Koei games here.
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
What are the best Warriors games? HW was quite fun and I enjoyed DW8XLCE, but not as much as HW. Samurai Warriors 4 looks pretty great. I like the more fantastical take on the gameplay. Regardless, what are everyone's top 5 Musou games?

Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate
One Piece: Pirate Warriors 2
Dynasty Warriors Gundam 2
Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3 (I love both for different reasons)
Dynasty Warriors 4 (purely for nostalgic reasons)
 

Foffy

Banned
I figure I'd ask here as it would perhaps partain best here, but it's come to my understanding that with Samurai Warriors 4, not all playable characters are actually playable in the story modes. Does anyone know what characters exactly are not playable in that mode? I haven't played any of those titles outside of the first game, but if I recall the characters omitted from musou modes were unique NPCs who later became playable in the expansion.

I find the apparent lack of a fully playable roster outside of free mode to be silly. I've recently gotten back into the series with Dynasty Warriors 8 Xtreme Legends Complete, so maybe I'm spoiled by every character at least getting two playable parts in the games story mode, as well as unique free mode-only scenarios that have some of these characters in a scenario. Does SW4 do that too?
 
I figure I'd ask here as it would perhaps partain best here, but it's come to my understanding that with Samurai Warriors 4, not all playable characters are actually playable in the story modes. Does anyone know what characters exactly are not playable in that mode? I haven't played any of those titles outside of the first game, but if I recall the characters omitted from musou modes were unique NPCs who later became playable in the expansion.

I find the apparent lack of a fully playable roster outside of free mode to be silly. I've recently gotten back into the series with Dynasty Warriors 8 Xtreme Legends Complete, so maybe I'm spoiled by every character at least getting two playable parts in the games story mode, as well as unique free mode-only scenarios that have some of these characters in a scenario. Does SW4 do that too?

The left out characters for SW4 are Goemon, Okuni, Kojiro and Musashi.

They only appear in the chronicle (CAW) mode of the game and you can only unlock them from there. IIRC, they do have more of a focus in that mode, so its not completely like they are shun from the story. And I think some do appear in the story mode of somebody's just not playable.

You can also tell since Koei didn't even bother giving them new costumes.
 

Foffy

Banned
The left out characters for SW4 are Goemon, Okuni, Kojiro and Musashi.

They only appear in the chronicle (CAW) mode of the game and you can only unlock them from there. IIRC, they do have more of a focus in that mode, so its not completely like they are shun from the story. And I think some do appear in the story mode of somebody's just not playable.

You can also tell since Koei didn't even bother giving them new costumes.

If you unlock them and them use them in those stages in free mode (assuming they do not appear as reinforcements) do they still have the same objectives they do as AI, or are you given the atypical stage pattern by not playing as a central character to that stage?
 

Camwi

Member
What are the best Warriors games? HW was quite fun and I enjoyed DW8XLCE, but not as much as HW. Samurai Warriors 4 looks pretty great. I like the more fantastical take on the gameplay. Regardless, what are everyone's top 5 Musou games?

That's a hard one. I guess mine would go something like -

1. Warriors Orochi 3
2. Warriors Orochi 2
3. Dynasty Warriors 5
4. Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage
5. Warriors Orochi

There are a lot of good ones though, and very few bad ones (DW6, mainly).
 
I can get Sengoku Basara: Samurai Heroes for $12 or Sengoki Basara 3 Utage for $22. Which should I get?

If you want to understand the story and/or play it in English, get Samurai Heroes.

Otherwise, if you want more and more things to do with more characters, get Utage.

If you unlock them and them use them in those stages in free mode (assuming they do not appear as reinforcements) do they still have the same objectives they do as AI, or are you given the atypical stage pattern by not playing as a central character to that stage?

I haven't played SW4 yet, but if it is like DW8, those four will probably end up with the atypical stage pattern you get with using someone that isn't selectable normally for that stage. I'm not sure if they have any stages for them either.
 

TimeKillr

Member
Since DW8XL is on sale on Steam this weekend, I decided to get it. I figure it's as good a time as any, and it's already really good, so...

I have a question, though. There's about a million freakin' DLC pieces on Steam, and the ones I would be interested in (the weapons) I'm very confused about.

They don't add new weapon types, afaik - they just add a new weapon to pretty much every time of weapon? How do you get those weapons? Does it basically break the game? Are the upgrades mostly.. cosmetic? I don't know if I should get anything, really.
 
Since DW8XL is on sale on Steam this weekend, I decided to get it. I figure it's as good a time as any, and it's already really good, so...

I have a question, though. There's about a million freakin' DLC pieces on Steam, and the ones I would be interested in (the weapons) I'm very confused about.

They don't add new weapon types, afaik - they just add a new weapon to pretty much every time of weapon? How do you get those weapons? Does it basically break the game? Are the upgrades mostly.. cosmetic? I don't know if I should get anything, really.

They actually do add new weapon types, with new attack animations and everything. You do get super powerful versions of the weapons, but they are optional. You have to go into a Select DLC menu and select it, so you can avoid it. After you have the DLC, the new weapon types drop randomly in battle like any other weapon.
 

Fevaweva

Member
I bought DW 8 XL on the PC yesterday, it is my first Dynasty Warriors game since 4 on the original Xbox.

First impressions, since I am bored at work:

  • The game's graphics were a lot better than I expected from a port of the Playstation 3 version. Nothing mindblowing, but certainly serviceable
  • The depth to the combat shocked me. Yes it is still X and Y with the occasional B but the rage meter and the stuff you can do in it, the different weapons, officers being weaker or stronger than you etc etc made the game infinitely better than 4
  • I felt that the battles are more objective based rather than "run around the map and kill dudes until you reach the commander" in the 4th one - this may change as I am only 2 hours in or so
  • Th pronunciation of the character's names has improved dramatically, even if I found it jarring at first "Sao Sao" instead of "Kao Kao" especially
  • Huang Gai has a fucking boat for a main weapon and sails it when he attacks? What the fucking hell!
  • I like how the characters look - although I preferred young helmeted Sun Jian
  • Zhou Tai is a beast!
 

squall23

Member
Can anyone recommend Dynasty Warriors Gundam Reborn? How does it compare to Warriors Orochi or mainline Dynasty Warriors games?
There's a lot of stuff in the game. There's an official mode that follows anime canon as best as it can and a what if mode full of different scenarios.

Customization is a little better than the average Musou because you can improve pilots stats and skills and the Mobile Suits' stats and skills.

The actual combat is a little outdated though. It's almost unchanged from the previous game and most of the units are the exact same. Also, not all Mobile Suits are made evenly. There are many that only have AAAB at most with only 1 or 2 Musou variations. Same goes for rage mode. A few units completely change appearance and move sets in rage mode while the rest just move faster and hit harder.

Would I recommend people to play it? Have you played the previous game? If not, I'd say jump right in. But if you have, I wouldn't say to stay clear of it but the lack of combat update may lower expectations.
 

Seik

Banned
Finished Hyrule Warriors yesterday and played a bit of DW8 on PS4 via a friend's copy.

I need more Musou in my life now.
 
I bought DW 8 XL on the PC yesterday, it is my first Dynasty Warriors game since 4 on the original Xbox.

First impressions, since I am bored at work:

  • The game's graphics were a lot better than I expected from a port of the Playstation 3 version. Nothing mindblowing, but certainly serviceable
  • The depth to the combat shocked me. Yes it is still X and Y with the occasional B but the rage meter and the stuff you can do in it, the different weapons, officers being weaker or stronger than you etc etc made the game infinitely better than 4
  • I felt that the battles are more objective based rather than "run around the map and kill dudes until you reach the commander" in the 4th one - this may change as I am only 2 hours in or so
  • Th pronunciation of the character's names has improved dramatically, even if I found it jarring at first "Sao Sao" instead of "Kao Kao" especially
  • Huang Gai has a fucking boat for a main weapon and sails it when he attacks? What the fucking hell!
  • I like how the characters look - although I preferred young helmeted Sun Jian
  • Zhou Tai is a beast!

1st point, yes objective based maps makes things more elaborate than just bumrush the enemy commander. adds variety and depth. but i feel it's also a double-edged sword, because sometimes i just wanna kill everything on sight or just play dumb, and certain maps won't allow you do that because you have to meet to arbitrary requirement to advance.

2nd point yes!
 

Ashkeloth

Member
Both are good games, so it's really down to your mood.

WO3 has just about the most content of any musou game out there, but there's an ultimate version out which has even more content (this might be what you mean, I'm not sure) and the graphics are serviceable but nothing spectacular.

OP: PW2 has more flash and flair than WO3 but less content overall. Of course, If you're a fan of One Piece, the characters are feel more fun and fleshed out than the ones you'll find in Warriors Orochi 3, which goes for quantity over quality sometimes.
 
Both are good games, so it's really down to your mood.

WO3 has just about the most content of any musou game out there, but there's an ultimate version out which has even more content (this might be what you mean, I'm not sure) and the graphics are serviceable but nothing spectacular.

OP: PW2 has more flash and flair than WO3 but less content overall. Of course, If you're a fan of One Piece, the characters are feel more fun and fleshed out than the ones you'll find in Warriors Orochi 3, which goes for quantity over quality sometimes.

I only have a PS3, so maybe I'll wait to play Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate down the road.
 

shaowebb

Member
Wow I did not realize how hard it would be to play two very different musou titles at once. I've been playing a LOT of Hyrule Warriors and I went back in to try and beat some levels on Warriors Orochi 3 ultimate and unlock some folks.

Holy crap...I was trying to dash into a fast run, and kept trying to z target and such. Sooooooo fucked for two matches re-adjusting to Orochi style team play over Hyrule Warriors style dash cancel dodge Godhand style musou fighting. Both are good but man is there ever a difference. Such a great couple of games and its so good knowing that they are both worth owning and it wont feel like a "one or the other it doesn't matter which you play" sort of thing.

Koei is really stepping up Musou lately.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
They most certainly have. I wonder if it has anything to do with Hayashi workign with everybody facilitating communications that up the quality of all their games.
 
Koei is really stepping up Musou lately.

I dunno, I feel like they've been doing it for a while. Especially with all the license spinoffs. At one point I'm pretty sure I swore off all the regular musou games because of the Gundam ones. Between the musou/air musou/near infinite dash combos there was no way I would be tearing up maps in anything close to decent times in the normal ones.
 

mintylurb

Member
Cross-posting to this thread:

I got the PS4 Sengoku Musou 4 yesterday. It is by far the best-looking musou game to date (I have not played Hyrule Warriors yet, though) and the PS4 enhancements are pretty noticeable. The models and lighting/effects are much-improved over the already-awesome PS3 version. I also noticed some nice new effects like slight character reflections on rain-slicked ground. Like DW8XL, there's more enemies on-screen and no enemy pop-in. The frame rate seems about the same as the PS3 version, which is fine since it was already pretty stable. This is by far the definitive version of the game.

Here's 20 screen captures at 1920x1080.
Nice shots and good to hear the frame rate is pretty stable..But what happened to AA?
Although PS4 DW8XL's AA solution wasn't exactly the best, I think it still looks better than having no AA.
I was hoping AA would be standard with x1/ps4 musou games.
 
I was playing Dynasty Warriors 8 XLCE and then starting playing Pirate Warriors 2 and Sengoku Basara. Now, going back to Dynasty Warriors almost feels too tame. I like the over the top crazy moves, and those two have Dynasty Warriors beat.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
The 52 team combos in WO3 has really made me think what else could team omega tackle. Since WO is all about foxes I'd kill for a Naruto Musou since WO3 is so full of reference to what Naruto uses as background.
 

PepperedHam

Member
The decision between DW8XLCE and SW4 is gonna be a tough one (both would be nice, but gotta curb spending during the Autumn months) seeing as how the characters I'm enjoying the most in Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate are Dynasty Warriors characters.

Xu Huang, Zhou Tai, Guo Huai, and Sun Shangxiang are my lovers right now. I have so much fun playing as them.
 

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
Xu Huang isn't quite as fun in 8XL as he is in Orochi 3, and definitely needs some velocity on his axe, but the others are fine. None of them have new weapons in 8 either, but they do have a few new attacks.
 
The decision between DW8XLCE and SW4 is gonna be a tough one (both would be nice, but gotta curb spending during the Autumn months) seeing as how the characters I'm enjoying the most in Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate are Dynasty Warriors characters.

Xu Huang, Zhou Tai, Guo Huai, and Sun Shangxiang are my lovers right now. I have so much fun playing as them.

Quite a number of Dynasty Warriors were nerfed rom 7 (AKA WO3) to 8, I know Zhou Tai is one of them, whilst in SW4 they are probably stronger and plays better thanks to hyper attack and moves getting buffed
 
As much as I'm playing the hell out of WO3U at the moment I'm really perplexed as to why they made all this extra content as an expansion. I really wonder how much more work would have been neeeded to take the what's there and flesh it out into a full WO4 released after SW4 (in Japan, there western release timings have been a little wonky, probably because they need day and date PS4 versions over here).

- take the new characters, add all the new characters and decloned movesets from DW8 and SW4 and you'd have one hell of a roster update.
- the framework of a new story is there, might need more extra stages to flesh it out
maybe build up Yinglong more to add more weight to him becoming Orochi after Tamamo/Kyubi's deception
, but all the CG cutscenes are there.
 
I imagine a WO4 will probably come out after DW9 and SW4XL comes out first.

One of the things they'll need to look into is to how to properly balance everyone now since SW characters have Godspeed which makes them crazy mobile. All the DW cast now has is a second EX move which doesn't really compare. They'll also have to do something about multiple musous now for the DW cast.

And hell, they should finally get around to updating the WO's cast movesets too.

Basically, there's a lot they have to do so it doesn't look like a lazy cut and paste of characters (which I assume they'll probably do that anyway).
 

PepperedHam

Member
Picked up DW8XLCE on PS4 today and holy hell that framerate drop when Dong Zhuo's forces are burning down that village, that was nasty.

Enjoying the game overall though.
 

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
Picked up DW8XLCE on PS4 today and holy hell that framerate drop when Dong Zhuo's forces are burning down that village, that was nasty.

Enjoying the game overall though.

Yeah, some of the fire areas have bizarre framerate drops. If you initiate a fire attack using a bodyguard, there's very little issue, yet the fires built into the level are cataclysmic, despite not having a terribly great difference in visual effect. It's really mind-boggling.
 

PepperedHam

Member
I was worried that trucking through both WO3U and DW8XLCE at the same time would burn me out but so far I'm loving the differences between both. I'm having a blast hopping back and forth between the two.

As of now I give the edge to WO3U only because I like the pacing of the combat a little more. Switching between three characters is more fun for me than switching between the two weapons, but I also really like having three musou bars and the rage meter in DW8.

As someone who hasn't dabbled since DW4/DW5 this is a big treat for me. I can't wait to check out Samurai Warriors 4 later this month.
 

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
I was worried that trucking through both WO3U and DW8XLCE at the same time would burn me out but so far I'm loving the differences between both. I'm having a blast hopping back and forth between the two.

As of now I give the edge to WO3U only because I like the pacing of the combat a little more. Switching between three characters is more fun for me than switching between the two weapons, but I also really like having three musou bars and the rage meter in DW8.

As someone who hasn't dabbled since DW4/DW5 this is a big treat for me.
I can't wait to check out Samurai Warriors 4 later this month.

You picked a great time to jump out and back in. Skipped all the mediocre titles. Warriors Orochi 1 and 2 are excellent though.
 
Top Bottom