• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

What games were ahead of their time?

12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
I feel like most games being named in this thread came perfectly for their time, which is why they were enormous hits.

If you're ahead of your time, you're not understood by most and will get slept on. In this vein, the only game I can think of is demons souls - and people finally caught on some time after dark souls was released
 
Last edited:
Some RPGs even include a "loop" but we call it New Game+. I like the idea of endlessly-replayable games. I think modern roguelikes are the closest thing we have to the repeating loops of the arcade (other than twitchy games inspired directly by arcades, obviously).

Damn I completely forgot about RPGs xD. Wasn't Chrono Trigger the first JRPG with a New Game+ ? I could be wrong about that, but it's something everyone usually points as a feature associated with that game.

That said, have there been any RPGs where a New Game+ genuinely changes the story around, or takes it on a whole different path? Would imagine there's a few but probably not many. Generally they give bonus weapons and a few new dungeons to unlock on the 2nd playthrough. Which is nice, but there's still so much that can be done with that concept.

And I'd like to see other types of games utilize loop-based game concepts creatively, but seeing how so many games are drawing from conventional Hollywood-style narratives , it would be really hard for them to do that.
 

GreatnessRD

Member
Metal Gear Solid: 3
WWF No Mercy
WWE Smackdown vs. Raw 2006
Madden NFL 2006 (With the vision cone)
MAG Think it would be a lot better this generation
 
Damn I completely forgot about RPGs xD. Wasn't Chrono Trigger the first JRPG with a New Game+ ? I could be wrong about that, but it's something everyone usually points as a feature associated with that game.

That said, have there been any RPGs where a New Game+ genuinely changes the story around, or takes it on a whole different path? Would imagine there's a few but probably not many. Generally they give bonus weapons and a few new dungeons to unlock on the 2nd playthrough. Which is nice, but there's still so much that can be done with that concept.
I'm not sure if Chrono Trigger was the first, but it was definitely one of the early notable ones. The problem with loops/replays in an RPG is that you are making more and more content for fewer and fewer players who will see it (diminishing returns). Modern devs aren't interested in making even more assets (one of the most expensive parts of game development) without it being plastered in front of the eyes of as many people as possible.

And I'd like to see other types of games utilize loop-based game concepts creatively, but seeing how so many games are drawing from conventional Hollywood-style narratives , it would be really hard for them to do that.
Videogames with loops and replayability are antithetical to the modern "videogame as an expendable product" mentality. Why make a game that can be replayed when you can get their dollar through DLC and again in next year's iteration? You make a good point about Hollywood-style narratives. The push for narrative and storyline has steered videogames in the wrong direction (imo).

Arcades had serious flaws and limitations, no questions asked, and they definitely had sequels and iterative copy-cats. However, the games were designed to capture money for as long as possible. They somehow distilled the microtransaction system into something simpler and fairer.
 
Metal Gear Solid: 3
WWF No Mercy
WWE Smackdown vs. Raw 2006
Madden NFL 2006 (With the vision cone)
MAG Think it would be a lot better this generation
Did you know there was once a football game with GTA IV physics and you could create your own teams?

1887865-box_bbreaker.png


But it faded into obscurity much like NFL Blitz.
 
Last edited:

cucuchu

Member
Ultima Online

It was my first MMO and I was 13 when I first played it in '97, so I might be biased, but nothing can come close to the level of player-freedom that game allowed. It felt like you could do anything. Want to own a large tower but no longer any land plots that it will fit in? Murder the owner and take his keys. Want to spend 90% of your time at the smithy in Minoc or Britain and just make wares for people? You can do that too. I could spend days just chatting about all the stories from the game and whats interesting is none of it was from any scripted event within the game; it will all player-driven.

So here is a bit of a story from my time with Ultima Online and one instance of the game that will allows stick in my memory:

When factions were implemented in the game, you basically had this giant 4 way capture the flag going on where each faction would attempt to hold onto these sigils for a period of 24 hours (or some similar time period) to control specific cities within the game for a period of time. I was a part of a faction called the True Britannians initially and would spend entire school-nights staying awake defending our castle in Britain (one of the major cities in the game), which was our faction HQ. Over time I decided for whatever reason that I wanted to change factions to the Council of Mages, HQ'd on the island city of Magincia. When I made my split with the True Britiannians, a friend of mine took it VERY personally and we became bitter enemies over the course of the following months. Eventually our faction was able to get a hold of a number of sigils and two of the factions, the True Britiannians and the Shadowlords, both layed seige to us to take our sigils.

What was interesting about each HQ was that each one was distinctly different. The True Brits had a castle with limited access, Shadowlords had a crypt to defend with a very small area to enter from so it was super easy to defend, and the Council of Mages was on an island but there were a number of ways it could be attacked. There was a moongate for people to enter from on the north part of the island, plus you could just recall in the game to most areas, but once on the island you could only enter the HQ via a bridge on the southwest portion of the island. What made our HQ easier to defend was that while you could not use magic to recall into our HQ, you COULD use boats to bring supplies in. Sieges would often become deadlocked and in Ultima Online, you had to us stamina to push through other characters and you could throw down random objects like boxes, chairs, etc to form a wall of which people could pick these items up but you had bag space/weight limits, so it was always a valid strategy to attempt to obstruct entrances. However when these deadlocks occurred, it came down to who could supply themselves the longest. Obviously the ones laying siege had the advantage in this regard, as they could just resupply as needed an the those defending were usually stuck in their HQ, hoping the attackers would wear themselves out and eventually log off or you would cap the sigils. So it was a game of attrition most of the time.

So the siege was underway, and we were holding strong for a number of hours. The TB and Shadowlords pushed onto the bridge but could never make any substantial gains. We had mages placing poison walls up and any other number of obstructions, but as the hours went on and the morning went into the afternoon, their numbers became larger and larger. We had to make supply runs with ships for arrows, bandages, reagents for the mages, and more and it was a hell of a lot of fun coordinating that. I would say the numbers were about 40 to 50 of us in the HQ defending which 100-130 attacking. Server lag did occur but it was never too bad. Eventually though, our numbers were falling and their numbers grew, and they pushed through the bridge and were at our entrance. Until this point, I was using my bow to attack them but I also had Grand Master fencing and was eager to mince up our adversaries face to face. Another hour or two went by with us holding our ground but since we were all engaged in combat at this time, nobody was making supply runs and eventually the inevitable happened...they pushed through and we were making our last stand within our base.

My faction, the 20 or so of us left, we knew were going to die. There was no hope of victory for us this day. I applied deadly poison to my blade (deadly poison would kill people in 3 to 4 seconds if it gets applied to someone after you successfully hit them with your blade), and attacked the closest enemy to me. It was, and I shit you not, it was my friend, now enemy, from the True Brits. The poison applied and I was just in awe, even as I was killed within seconds by everyone around me, to see him die right next to me. It was like something scripted for a movie or something, and it could not have ended more perfectly.



So yeah, I think Ultima Online was well ahead of its time and if someone made a game with the right amount of funding now but similar ideas, it would be huge. Or maybe it wouldn't and thats just nostalgia blinding me but regardless, UO was groundbreaking and ahead of its time in in own right.
 

Husky

THE Prey 2 fanatic
Well, that's Mirror's Edge (2008) parkour over there, not Dying Light's.
I don't remember much climbing in Mirror's Edge, from what I recall its parkour wasn't focused much on precise vertical navigation

(also it's not Dying Light's it's Prey 2's uwu)
 
Last edited:

Deanington

Member
The Elder Scroll II: Daggerfall.
  • Still the best RPG ever made

I wanted to put Morrowind so bad. I have never played Daggerfall. I do recognize all that it has done though. Great choice and I think Morrowind pairs nicely with this ( completely biased ).

Phantasy Star

My first rpg game. This blew me away back in the day. The graphics, exploration, dungeon crawling ( I had to pencil map some of these out ), the almost jump scare in the dungeons ( dragons ), vehicles, etc. What a great game and truly ahead of its time.
 

brian0057

Banned
I wanted to put Morrowind so bad. I have never played Daggerfall. I do recognize all that it has done though. Great choice and I think Morrowind pairs nicely with this ( completely biased ).



My first rpg game. This blew me away back in the day. The graphics, exploration, dungeon crawling ( I had to pencil map some of these out ), the almost jump scare in the dungeons ( dragons ), vehicles, etc. What a great game and truly ahead of its time.
Morrowind is a fantastic game but the things you can do in Daggerfall are so vast that no other game in existence has ever even tried to duplicate.
You can make bank loans, for Odin's sake. You can own multiple houses, boats, carts, and horses. There are dozens of factions, every NPC can give you directions, relays the status of characters, and you can rob and kill every single one. There's an entire legal system where you can actually lie in court to gain your freedom or spend years in jail.
And with a map literally the size of Great Britain, you'll never find yourself with nothing to do. The fast travel system takes into account if you're in a hurry, you level of stamina, etc. The RPG system is just short of actually playing a D&D campaing.

As I said, still the best RPG ever made.

And if you want to play it, it's free on the Bethesda website.
 
Last edited:

Romulus

Member
There are dozens but the one that really sticks out for me is Half Life 2. Even playing it now, it does so many things better than modern games and it's from 2004.
 

Deanington

Member
Morrowind is a fantastic game but the things you can do in Daggerfall are so vast that no other game in existence has ever even tried to duplicate.
You can make bank loans, for Odin's sake. You can own multiple houses, boats, carts, and horses. There are dozens of factions, every NPC can give you directions, relays the status of characters, and you can rob and kill every single one. There's an entire legal system where you can actually lie in court to gain your freedom or spend years in jail.
And with a map literally the size of Great Britain, you'll never find yourself with nothing to do. The fast travel system takes into account if you're in a hurry, you level of stamina, etc. The RPG system is just short of actually playing a D&D campaing.

As I said, still the best RPG ever made.

And if you want to play it, it's free on the Bethesda website.

Amazing, and its kind of sad how far removed Beth are becoming from what made them, them.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
EverQuest gets my vote. To build such a large and vibrant 3D virtual world with systems and mechanics that really encouraged communities and conflicts to form in 1999 was a huge accomplishment.
 

buizel

Banned
Ultima Online

It was my first MMO and I was 13 when I first played it in '97, so I might be biased, but nothing can come close to the level of player-freedom that game allowed. It felt like you could do anything. Want to own a large tower but no longer any land plots that it will fit in? Murder the owner and take his keys. Want to spend 90% of your time at the smithy in Minoc or Britain and just make wares for people? You can do that too. I could spend days just chatting about all the stories from the game and whats interesting is none of it was from any scripted event within the game; it will all player-driven.

So here is a bit of a story from my time with Ultima Online and one instance of the game that will allows stick in my memory:

When factions were implemented in the game, you basically had this giant 4 way capture the flag going on where each faction would attempt to hold onto these sigils for a period of 24 hours (or some similar time period) to control specific cities within the game for a period of time. I was a part of a faction called the True Britannians initially and would spend entire school-nights staying awake defending our castle in Britain (one of the major cities in the game), which was our faction HQ. Over time I decided for whatever reason that I wanted to change factions to the Council of Mages, HQ'd on the island city of Magincia. When I made my split with the True Britiannians, a friend of mine took it VERY personally and we became bitter enemies over the course of the following months. Eventually our faction was able to get a hold of a number of sigils and two of the factions, the True Britiannians and the Shadowlords, both layed seige to us to take our sigils.

What was interesting about each HQ was that each one was distinctly different. The True Brits had a castle with limited access, Shadowlords had a crypt to defend with a very small area to enter from so it was super easy to defend, and the Council of Mages was on an island but there were a number of ways it could be attacked. There was a moongate for people to enter from on the north part of the island, plus you could just recall in the game to most areas, but once on the island you could only enter the HQ via a bridge on the southwest portion of the island. What made our HQ easier to defend was that while you could not use magic to recall into our HQ, you COULD use boats to bring supplies in. Sieges would often become deadlocked and in Ultima Online, you had to us stamina to push through other characters and you could throw down random objects like boxes, chairs, etc to form a wall of which people could pick these items up but you had bag space/weight limits, so it was always a valid strategy to attempt to obstruct entrances. However when these deadlocks occurred, it came down to who could supply themselves the longest. Obviously the ones laying siege had the advantage in this regard, as they could just resupply as needed an the those defending were usually stuck in their HQ, hoping the attackers would wear themselves out and eventually log off or you would cap the sigils. So it was a game of attrition most of the time.

So the siege was underway, and we were holding strong for a number of hours. The TB and Shadowlords pushed onto the bridge but could never make any substantial gains. We had mages placing poison walls up and any other number of obstructions, but as the hours went on and the morning went into the afternoon, their numbers became larger and larger. We had to make supply runs with ships for arrows, bandages, reagents for the mages, and more and it was a hell of a lot of fun coordinating that. I would say the numbers were about 40 to 50 of us in the HQ defending which 100-130 attacking. Server lag did occur but it was never too bad. Eventually though, our numbers were falling and their numbers grew, and they pushed through the bridge and were at our entrance. Until this point, I was using my bow to attack them but I also had Grand Master fencing and was eager to mince up our adversaries face to face. Another hour or two went by with us holding our ground but since we were all engaged in combat at this time, nobody was making supply runs and eventually the inevitable happened...they pushed through and we were making our last stand within our base.

My faction, the 20 or so of us left, we knew were going to die. There was no hope of victory for us this day. I applied deadly poison to my blade (deadly poison would kill people in 3 to 4 seconds if it gets applied to someone after you successfully hit them with your blade), and attacked the closest enemy to me. It was, and I shit you not, it was my friend, now enemy, from the True Brits. The poison applied and I was just in awe, even as I was killed within seconds by everyone around me, to see him die right next to me. It was like something scripted for a movie or something, and it could not have ended more perfectly.



So yeah, I think Ultima Online was well ahead of its time and if someone made a game with the right amount of funding now but similar ideas, it would be huge. Or maybe it wouldn't and thats just nostalgia blinding me but regardless, UO was groundbreaking and ahead of its time in in own right.

I love stories like this, I wish Elder Scrolls Online was a 3D version of this. I read about Neverwinter Nights 1991 and all the player-driven stories and it makes me wish we had them so much, but everything is scripted and limited in MMO's not, it's like the antithesis of what they were made to be. Thanks for the story I love these :D

I only played Ultima 4 really on Master System, but UO sounded awesome, is the game still like that?
 
Phantasy Star (SMS) - The 8 Bit Graphics, Animation and Wireframe Dungeon design was well ahead of stuff like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. A real treat for the Master System and it is a damn damn shame we didn't get more magnificent efforts like that on the system by either SEGA or anyone else.

Pokémon Red/Blue/Yellow (Game Boy)- We like to mock Game Freak now for the stuff they have pulled lately, but back in 1999 (UK), the game blew my mind!

An overworld, catching 150 Pokemon with over 100 Moves and many different ways of approaching each Gym. The Spritework and even the Story didn't like it should be on the Game Boy...or even the NES! The game honestly felt like it should have been on the SNES/Mega Drive to me. By far the most advanced "Overworld" RPG, matching Phantasy Star in design but surpassing just how many places you could go in the game.

Metal Gear Solid 3 (PS2) - I think it literally pushed the hardware to its absolute limits on the realistic Injuries that Naked Snake could get, the Animals and how they react when you move past them or go to shoot at them, as well as the Graphics for the time looking almost HDish. It's also pretty lengthy and meaty in content!

Xenoblade Chronicles (Wii) - The stuff you could do in this game, my word! EVERYWHERE IN THE GAME IS ACCESSABLE! The Graphics weren't exactly amazing, but the depth, the amount of Quests you could do and the Voice Acting were pretty incredible. You could easily get lost in the game and waste so many hours doing everything you can to complete the List of Collectables.
 
Last edited:

Belmonte

Member
Ultima IV - Deep moral system which follows each and every action of the main protagonist. The game didn't judge your actions by good and evil dichotomy only. There are 8 virtues the game: honesty, compassion, valor, justice, sacrifice, honor, spirituality and humility. If you let enemies flee from the battle you receive compassion for example.

Ultima VII - Highly interactive world and NPCs have complex schedules.

Wizardry VII - Other adventurer parties competing with you in the game. They can even loot chests before you.

TBH, this thread could easily be about CRPGs from the 70s to 2000s. There were so much innovation in the quest to emulate tabletop RPGs in a eletronic format. Many horrible interfaces also, but highly innovative games. To this day, every game I discover in the genre I'm blowed away in some form or another.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Xenoblade Chronicles (Wii) - The stuff you could do in this game, my word! EVERYWHERE IN THE GAME IS ACCESSABLE! The Graphics weren't exactly amazing, but the depth, the amount of Quests you could do and the Voice Acting were pretty incredible. You could easily get lost in the game and waste so many hours doing everything you can to complete the List of Collectables.
This game was so ahead of it's time that it's Wii U spinoff and Switch sequel (which each borrow heavily from the first game) ALSO feel like they're ahead of their time. The Wii game released 9 years ago, and it's still very much playable. We're also getting a "definitive edition" next year. They don't need to change any of the game's mechanics - I think they're just updating the graphics for the Switch - and unlike most ports from 2 generations ago this will still feel fresh and fun.
 
H

hariseldon

Unconfirmed Member
Morrowind is a fantastic game but the things you can do in Daggerfall are so vast that no other game in existence has ever even tried to duplicate.
You can make bank loans, for Odin's sake. You can own multiple houses, boats, carts, and horses. There are dozens of factions, every NPC can give you directions, relays the status of characters, and you can rob and kill every single one. There's an entire legal system where you can actually lie in court to gain your freedom or spend years in jail.
And with a map literally the size of Great Britain, you'll never find yourself with nothing to do. The fast travel system takes into account if you're in a hurry, you level of stamina, etc. The RPG system is just short of actually playing a D&D campaing.

As I said, still the best RPG ever made.

And if you want to play it, it's free on the Bethesda website.

Well that’s one I’m gonna have to play.I honestly didn’t know half that stuff, thanks for a truly epic write up. Once I’m done with Alpha Protocol and Planescape Torment I‘ll poke it and see how I like it.
 

anthraticus

Banned
I love stories like this, I wish Elder Scrolls Online was a 3D version of this. I read about Neverwinter Nights 1991 and all the player-driven stories and it makes me wish we had them so much, but everything is scripted and limited in MMO's not, it's like the antithesis of what they were made to be. Thanks for the story I love these :D

I only played Ultima 4 really on Master System, but UO sounded awesome, is the game still like that?
Yea, if MMOs would have followed in the footsteps of an Ultima Online instead of WoW, I just might have given a shit about the genre.
 

buizel

Banned
Well that’s one I’m gonna have to play.I honestly didn’t know half that stuff, thanks for a truly epic write up. Once I’m done with Alpha Protocol and Planescape Torment I‘ll poke it and see how I like it.

Check out Daggerfall Unity, it recently hit it's first Complete Release! It has mods and stuff you can make it look beautiful, but it can just be the OG Daggerfall, running better on the Unity engine.

DhE0u83VMAA9pJv.jpg



Stuff is added really often, loads of visual mods, quest mods, airships and so much more! Daggerfall and ES1 is also FREEEEEE from Bethesda!
 
Last edited:

pramod

Banned
Elite was so ahead of its time that playing it felt like it's something that should not exist yet.

As for my own picks:

All the 8-bit Ultima games
Herzog Zwei
Street Fighter 2
 
Last edited:

stranno

Member
Codename: Eagle. The Battlefield Zero, three years before Battlefield 1942. Earliest example of multi-player focused game with gigantic maps and vehicles?

DICE was basically the Pinball Fantasies/Dreams/Illusions guys until they bought Refraction Games, the developers of Codename: Eagle. They tweaked the formula a bit and BAM! : Battlefield 1942.

The game was set in an alternate World War I, so yeah, Battlefield 1 wasnt technically the first WWI "Battlefield".




The previous game from GSC, Codename: Outbreak, was pretty acclaimed back in the day. I dont remember if it was any good.

 
Last edited:
The previous game from GSC, Codename: Outbreak, was pretty acclaimed back in the day. I dont remember if it was any good.

That is also a very rad choice. I bought that game back in the day for very cheap, but I didn't really understand it at the time. Bought it on GOG a couple of years ago, and when I look back on it, yeah...that game was certainly ahead too, and you can see that it is the direct lineage of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl.
 

brian0057

Banned
Well that’s one I’m gonna have to play.I honestly didn’t know half that stuff, thanks for a truly epic write up. Once I’m done with Alpha Protocol and Planescape Torment I‘ll poke it and see how I like it.
You can get the game for free from Bethesda's website. Here's the link:


You also get it for free, along with Elder Scroll: Arena, through GOG when you buy any Bethesda game.
And as buizel buizel said, you can use the Daggerfall Unity mod to make the game a lot more presentable.
 

Hairball

Neo Member
I find most Mario games are always something that takes a step ahead. Super Mario 64 was definitely one, it kind of redefined how 3D platformers would play.
 

wolywood

Member
Metal Gear Solid 2 both for being the first postmodern video game and predicting fake news and the echo chamber of today's internet.
 

nkarafo

Member
Oh man, but it was so hard to control the camera in Goldeneye, but at least they tried...
What do you mean? It's the exact same controls as modern shooters. Even if you don't use the dual analog scheme with the two controllers you can still use the D-pad for movement and the analog for the camera/aim.

I assume you tried the other control methods and you didn't only use the defaults, right?
 
Last edited:
GTA IV using true motion euphoria on the PS3 & 360, Now that was pretty cool back in the day. It's like that technology was just made for that game when it comes to running people over with a car.
 

Handel

Member
Ico's one of the best examples, with how it integrates narrative with gameplay, it's use of bloom lighting, the interconnected level design, the physics at play with Yorda, cinematic camera framing, proper character animations in line with the environment especially on stairs, etc.

It was way ahead of it's time and hard to describe to anyone what kind of game it was at the time. Now when a game in that style is talked about, we can just say, "Oh, it's like Ico."(credit to Wired for the quote).
 
Top Bottom