Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
I'm starting to feel like I really lowballed the WW. I feel like I'm betting against Iron Man, and that's not a great place to be.
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Wkd BO 0630-070217 - Audiences want the D3, don't put Baby in corner but 2nd,
- Thread starter xaosslug
- Start date
Had the chance to go to Pirates but went to WW again instead. I'll go a third time if that helps make the message clearer to WB/DC.
Cut ties with Zack Snyder already. Just fucking STOP.
Stop him from destroying more DC properties. Hell I'd be ok with a reboot of Superman and Batman. Just bring in alternate dimension stuff and we're good. Just give it to an actual filmmaker this time.
WW's first act was still as boring and mediocre as I remembered. For how long that goddamn boat scene is, they might as well flashback the hell out of Themyscira there. I mean it could've been one of my favorite superhero movies but with that first act bogging it down I just can't.
Third act as enjoyable as ever. Meme's absurd.
No Man's Land consolidated as one of my favorite superhero scenes if not the favorite. Just fucking awe inspiring.
Cut ties with Zack Snyder already. Just fucking STOP.
Stop him from destroying more DC properties. Hell I'd be ok with a reboot of Superman and Batman. Just bring in alternate dimension stuff and we're good. Just give it to an actual filmmaker this time.
WW's first act was still as boring and mediocre as I remembered. For how long that goddamn boat scene is, they might as well flashback the hell out of Themyscira there. I mean it could've been one of my favorite superhero movies but with that first act bogging it down I just can't.
Third act as enjoyable as ever. Meme's absurd.
No Man's Land consolidated as one of my favorite superhero scenes if not the favorite. Just fucking awe inspiring.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Too bad he has to work with a 40 years old depressed and murderer Batman whose Joker is a Justin Bieber millenial wannabe who thinks he's edgy.
I mean I'm sure he'll do a good job but he can't retroactively save the goddamn irredeemable, unlikable mess that is the DCEU old Batman.
What about Superman too? He's yet to become a character. He is nothing. They're making a Justice League movie in which Superman is a non-character. Jesus.
I can already tell what's his input in WW. The bridge scene with the wounded people and the gas killings. Can you imagine if he actually directed a story about WWI and the horrors of war? I can't even imagine what kind of bleak, unpleasant, depressive movie that would've been.
Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman are the cornerstone of the DC universe.
So far, 2 out of 3 are complete failures. How do you build an entire universe around two terrible characters? A good Batgirl movie won't save it. If JL is anything like BvS or MoS and does nothing to redeem Batman and Superman it's kind of over. Sure they'll still making money but it'll be a sad trainwreck of a cinematic universe.
I'd honestly prefer if JL was more like SS. Second best DCEU movie after WW. Hopefully Whedon can salvage it. I'll absolutely take an Ultron over another Snyder hot take.
So far, 2 out of 3 are complete failures. How do you build an entire universe around two terrible characters? A good Batgirl movie won't save it. If JL is anything like BvS or MoS and does nothing to redeem Batman and Superman it's kind of over. Sure they'll still making money but it'll be a sad trainwreck of a cinematic universe.
I'd honestly prefer if JL was more like SS. Second best DCEU movie after WW. Hopefully Whedon can salvage it. I'll absolutely take an Ultron over another Snyder hot take.
The lowest grossing DCU film thus far is Man Of Steel with $291m domestic and $668m globally.
Wonder Woman is (as I predicted) on course for $400m in the US alone. The DCU doesn't need to be 'saved'. Critically it hasn't hit the mark with BvS and SS, I wouldn't argue otherwise, but WW is smash financially and creatively.
To say the DCU is on the ropes is utter nonsense.
True, but a number of people I know are going into Homecoming assuming that it's going to be a buddy film with Iron Man and Spidey on an adventure, not RDJ shooting three days on the set.
This might dent the film's long term chances.
And JL will do huge business with WW alone.
Absolutely. WW caught lightning in a bottle and JL is perfectly placed to follow that up in just a few short months.
I'm not talking about financial success but quality. Nobody doubts they would make money out of a Robotman movie.
The thing is, a C-tier Marvel character like Dr. Strange can make the same money as Superman and goddamn Ant-Man managed to come close. Superman is the second biggest DC character.
If that doesn't constitute a tremendous fail for WB then I don't know what does. And yet they keep giving him films to direct. Wonder Woman corrected the course indeed (and imo SS too, you can say it's cancer incarnate all you want, I enjoyed it, even if it's flawed, and a lot of people clearly liked it too) but they need to keep the wheel straight with Justice League.
We'll see but I'm willing to bet they'll throw away all of the goodwill from WW. Introducing Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman and the Justice League in the same movie sounds like a complete disaster.
The thing is, a C-tier Marvel character like Dr. Strange can make the same money as Superman and goddamn Ant-Man managed to come close. Superman is the second biggest DC character.
If that doesn't constitute a tremendous fail for WB then I don't know what does. And yet they keep giving him films to direct. Wonder Woman corrected the course indeed (and imo SS too, you can say it's cancer incarnate all you want, I enjoyed it, even if it's flawed, and a lot of people clearly liked it too) but they need to keep the wheel straight with Justice League.
We'll see but I'm willing to bet they'll throw away all of the goodwill from WW. Introducing Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman and the Justice League in the same movie sounds like a complete disaster.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Superman should stay dead tbh along with Lex Luther.
I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. So.., now the DCU is in danger of being 'shut down' (and in need of saving) because of critical feedback alone? If that were the case Dark Of The Moon would have been the last Transformers film.
Also, comparing the first DCU film to the 14th MCU film is the ultimate apples to oranges comparison.
BronsonLee
Member
Y'all went from slanderin' me to slanderin' DC Jesus
CaviarMeths
Member
Justin Bieber was born in the mid-90s and stretches the definition of a millennial. Jared Leto is damn near half a century old and certainly not a millennial. We need to stop using this word to describe people we don't like.
Nappuccino
Member
I think people forget how old Leto is as he doesn't look like he's aged the last 20 years.
The blind hate for Snyder is getting a little ridiculous. He's done a lot more good for the DCEU than bad. Hell, we wouldn't have a DCEU without him. Double hell, we wouldn't have a Wonder Woman without him. Triple hell, we wouldn't have a Justice League without him. Quadruple hell, we wouldn't have a feature length Aquaman movie without him. AQUAMAN! The dude that talks to fish has his own movie!
Firelogic
Executive VP of the ZSDF.
Firelogic
Executive VP of the ZSDF.
Fucking bullshit. His fans are so desperate to credit him with everything.
We would have gotten all those things with or without Snyder.
The DCEU would have existed. WW, one of DC's most well known characters and one of the trinity, would have existed. JL would have existed. Solo movies for JL characters would have existed.
The way you're talking, you'd think snyder went to WB and pitched them the idea for the Universe, instead of being hired for it.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
I guess it will come down to if more people are pleasantly surprised by the unmet expectation than soured by it.
The car chase was great, but it was the singing intro and the dancing when he's getting coffee that gave me severe second-hand embarrassment
Not sure if you've seen the movie yet, but it opens with the lead dancing and lip-synching in his car and it's really fucking bad
Nah, Snyder's action is way better than what went down in the final WW fight scene
PhoncipleBone
Banned
The way people are bashing Rogue One, which released this year, it's like Snyder directed it.
Am I doing it right?
Am I doing it right?
Wonder Woman's international take actually isn't all that special. It's on the lower side for a big comic film which released in China. Of the MCU stuff that has launched since Avengers, only Ant-Man had a lower international take. In the DCEU, Wonder Woman will beat Man of Steel by about the difference in their Chinese grosses (granted MoS had better exchange rates). Wonder Woman will top Logan by about $10-20M overseas, but I think it will end up being the second lowest grossing (live-action) superhero film of the year outside the domestic market (where it has a good shot at being the highest grossing).
I just finished True Detective S1 for the first time a few days ago. Amazing mini-series. I am in no rush to watch the second season after seeing its reception here.
Basically the international grosses meant that the film, coming in under $400m, is a disaster rather than an unmitigated disaster.
I think Universal will get Bride Of Frankenstein done and see where they are from there. But it's clear to me, and I imagine them, that this idea of a connected universe of monsters just isn't going to fly.
I'm not sure we're ever going to see Depp in his own Invisible Man film for example.
It makes a ton or mistakes and missteps but, for the most part, I didn't feel like I was wasting my time watching it.
Not a ringing endorsement I grant you but...,
You're totally right. The Wonder Woman movies that were in development hell for decades would have happened without Snyder's involvement. Of course it would have.
Snyder haters are quick to discredit blame him for everything. Everything that was good about WW was all Patty Jenkins and clearly all the parts you didn't like were all Snyder. It would have made $1B had Snyder not been involved.
Dislike his movies all you want but give credit where credit is due. I mean, damn. They're just movies. Why such hatred?
You're not going to convince me he's the worst thing to happen to DC and I'm not going to convince you that he isn't. I'm done talking about this for good.
S2 has a great performance from Colin Farrell but that's about all the good I can say about it.
Random Human
They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
Season two of TD is seriously one of the most entertaining seasons of television I've ever seen. Just... for entire different reasons than the first season.
Although I wonder how much of that was following it week by week and seeing people's reactions to it. Stan, for example, probably doesn't play as well if you binge watch it.
Although I wonder how much of that was following it week by week and seeing people's reactions to it. Stan, for example, probably doesn't play as well if you binge watch it.
I watched Sphere (1998) last night (I'd seen it before, when it came out) and was really struck with two thoughts:
- The book is 1,000,000+ times better than the movie. I know that's the case most of the time but they really butchered this adaptation
- Despite that, the setting (underwater (non-shark) horror) is criminally underused. Space is great and all, but the chances of any one of us having been to space is <0.00000001%. 99%+ of us have been underwater, so it's terrifying to imagine being that far under water when shit starts going wrong.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I really don't find this to be a trusim. Perhaps more often than not, but I can make the case for a lot of movies better than their source material.
It's just that good movies of average books usually means most people aren't familiar with the book.
Uh, yeah...it would. Were they going to be build a Universe with just Batman and superman?
The only reason we've gotten movies like Iron-Man, GotG, Thor, Antman, etc., is because Marvel was building a cinematic universe.
It ain't that surprising that WW, Flash and Aquaman are getting solos. Would have happened regardless of Snyder.
I don't know what you're talking about. Never said or did any of the above.
Sphere was part of that post-Jurassic Park Michael Crichton rush that mostly resulted in mediocre movies.
I'm actually surprised that WB haven't done anything Sphere (that's assuming they still own the rights) in the current remake/reboot era.
Hell, even a TV event series (with a sizeable budget) based off Sphere could be pretty cool.
CaviarMeths
Member
There's absolutely nothing blind about it. We've all been using our eyeballs to watch his shitty films for over a decade now.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Sphere was so frustrating, because they had some great talent in front of and behind the camera. I was excited about Barry Levinson and Paul Attanasio being involved, but looking at the IMDB page now, I see what went wrong.
Kurt Wimmer was credited as adapting it. Seeing his work since, yeah...he is where things really started to go wrong with that film.
Kurt Wimmer was credited as adapting it. Seeing his work since, yeah...he is where things really started to go wrong with that film.
Movies based on short stories and novellas usually hold up better.
A 300 page book translates to 8-10 hours of audiobook content. Even if you take out the time spent describing scenes, that's a lot of dialogue and plot points to trim in order to make a 100-140 minute film. And 300 pages isn't even a very long novel.
Plus, Hollywood adapts a lot of novels that don't really work as well outside of their native format. While some of the films are pretty good, how are you going to adapt the works of Kazuo Ishiguro without completely changing the tone? His novels depend so heavily on self deception giving way to understanding in the course of a meandering, and often unreliable first person narrative.
Whisper of the Heart or Kiki's Delivery Service if you don't mind slice of life stuff.
Both are completely different from what you have seen so far.
Also, try My Neighbor Totoro with your Daughter. My girl was obsessed with that film for about 3 months.
If you want something with more action, Castle in the Sky is still good. A lot of people like Nausicaa, but I saw that after reading the manga (which I'd put up as Miyazaki's best work), and was disappointed.
EDIT: I haven't seen the following Ghibli films yet: Princess Kaguya, Pom Poko, Porco Rosso, Only Yesterday, My Neighbors the Yamadas, The Wind Rises, From Up on Poppy Hill, When Marnie was There, Ocean Waves, and Tales from Earthsea. Can't comment on any of those.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
All of this is true.
I just dismiss the idea that the book is almost always better, or almost always a *lot* better. Lots of movies get made from so-so material and/or take huge liberties, and end up being much better. In those cases, people don't often talk about the books much.
Examples:
High Fidelity and About a Boy are pretty great books, but both improve considerably on screen. Tweaks to tone, and in the case of About a Boy, rewriting the climax altogether made for a better end result. And Rob's employees are just way funnier live than in print.
The first couple Hunger Games movies are improvements over the books by cutting a lot of banal stuff. The third one was terrible and I've never seen the fourth however (the third book is pretty bad, too).
A lot of Hitchcock is adapted from prose, and the one I've read (Rear Window) was only a short story, and pretty lame. The movie is of course amazing.
You're right that most of these are short works. But there are also long meandering books that benefit from editing. I couldn't make it through Lord of the Rings but enjoyed the movies a lot. We didn't need the huge expanses of narrative description of the countryside when New Zealand shots would do the job instantly.
I haven't read it, but I heard Girl With the Dragon Tattoo is also better for being a lot, lot shorter.
And I've never heard anyone say the Godfather novel is as good as the movie.
So yeah, the books are usually better-- but I hate when that's trotted out as a trusim. It's just that the mediocre books get forgotten about.
This is a great point, and Sphere specifically was hurt because of it. The book worked because it was ~500 pages of escalating weirdness, friendships dissolving, etc. The movie didn't show any of that.
Awesome, My Neighbor Totoro it is! I'll give Kiki a chance first as well. I haven't seen much "slice of life" but again, I loved Your Name, so I'm willing to give more of it a shot (I know they're very different movies)
In each of these cases, I prefer the book(s) by a large margin. The LOTR movies are great but the books were as well.
Thank you for saying this. It's so tiring hearing bs like DCU needs to be saved. It's doing absolutely fine.
