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Twitch bans Adults Only games
- Thread starter gai_shain
- Start date
I think he's agreeing with you but just worded it a little awkwardly -- that users have other options if a service they use runs afoul of their expectations.
hymanator
Member
I'm confused about this policy. Is nudity and sex in games allowed to be shown as long as it is an "M" rated game? Is extremely graphic violence allowed as long as it is an "M" rating as well?
So it is perfectly fine to stream Mortal Kombat X but it is not ok to stream Thrill Kill?
You are allowed to stream gameplay of picking up prostitutes and going to a strip club in GTA V, but GTA: San Andreas (which had a sex mini-game only playable through a mod) is off-limits?
What sort of content was in Manhunt 2 that made it "worse" than MKX and GTAV?
So it is perfectly fine to stream Mortal Kombat X but it is not ok to stream Thrill Kill?
You are allowed to stream gameplay of picking up prostitutes and going to a strip club in GTA V, but GTA: San Andreas (which had a sex mini-game only playable through a mod) is off-limits?
What sort of content was in Manhunt 2 that made it "worse" than MKX and GTAV?
DidntKnowJack
Member
Oh no. How will I ever live without my streams of Manhunt 2 and extremely console specific versions of San Andreas?
Much ado about nothing. And by the way, crucifying an entire nation based on ratings by the ESRB - stay classy, ignorant subsection of NeoGAF. Its like condemning all Australians when their government bans a video game. I mean, what the fuck Australians - what's wrong with you? Yeah we all have stupid rules and laws, the ESRB is certainly no different.
Much ado about nothing. And by the way, crucifying an entire nation based on ratings by the ESRB - stay classy, ignorant subsection of NeoGAF. Its like condemning all Australians when their government bans a video game. I mean, what the fuck Australians - what's wrong with you? Yeah we all have stupid rules and laws, the ESRB is certainly no different.
You sound not confused at all.
The problem is, you can't really set a person to judge what games step over an arbitrary line. There is already a rating system in place, and they're using it to set a guideline.
If you have a grievance with the content of those products, that grievance is with ESRB and general american values. Not twitch.
posts like this trigger me
Is Walmart censoring their store by selling the brand new Flintstones dvd but not porn? They are, right?
Imagine a world where you have spongebob and dora on channel 6 and then hardcore anal on channel 7
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
They have a worse time with the DMCA and people streaming leaked content more than they do with games rated AO. You're showing up rather LTTP if you're worried about people streaming AO games. AO typically exists on the black market where games get made more than they get played. I wouldn't even think half of the games made with porn themes even get a rating by the ESRB and what's been released isn't anything to write home about.
What about the Roms streamers are using? That poses a larger threat than AO games do. I understand what you're saying.
You're like finding a needle in a haystack. You'll find them and what not but it's typically a mistake or a game that's been made in incredibly low quality. Look how dated RapeLay was and it never saw the light of day in the U.S. It looks like it's awful. Controls are awful, camera etc etc. yet people bring it up regardless because of the content. No one cares about it.
ChosenPredator
Banned
so i can't stream the south park game D:
benicillin
Banned
Nudity and sex are completely allowed as long as it's not the focus of the game/stream or modded in. That's literally what it says in their policy. Manhunt 2 got an AO for a handful of things, like being able to rip the testicles off an enemy with a pair of pliers and a bunch of gruesome execution scenes that were removed from the M rated version resubmitted to ESRB.
Pathfinder
Member
As long as there is an age/parental/content lockout option available to use, why would that be a problem?
They do have the Playboy channel on lots of cable networks. A person of any age could hypothetically punch the correct numbers to inadvertently or purposely access the channel.
So wait
What about this:
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/16/7557639/hatred-esrb-ao-rating
They said they confirmed the rating with the ESRB
What about this:
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/16/7557639/hatred-esrb-ao-rating
They said they confirmed the rating with the ESRB
Fixed1979
Member
I'm not sure if that would fall under "censorship" or not as they are not actually producing or creating anything only choosing not to supply, I suppose it could be argued to be a form of self-censorship, though regardless they certainly have every right to make that decision...
You can.
If I responded to your post with a bunch of dick and vagina pictures and I got banned for it is Neogaf censoring me?
Pathfinder
Member
That's not the point here.
The point is this announcement is coincidentally coming very close to the release of Hatred. So basically, Twitch is saying you can't stream Hatred without actually saying you can't stream Hatred.
It's not their choice not to allow it that bothers me the most. It's how they're being sneaky with it and trying to pretend its for the greater good.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
That's stupid IMO. I can show you nudity, but I can't exceed violence in a 3D game. In ten years it won't even look like it deserved the rating. It's a beefed up more surreal version of State of Emergency.
Hatred is not an AO rated game. It can and will be streamed. It might have been AO early on but it is no longer rated by the ESRB, and so will release unrated.
Fixed1979
Member
If they removed the pictures you posted? Yes. I'm not sure why people think that private institutions, groups, companies or people can't engage in censorship or that it's necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps it has something to do with the whole American idea of free speech above everything.
Pathfinder
Member
We shall see what happens next week.
DidntKnowJack
Member
Walmart would never sell pornography, but removing that from the equation there are zoning laws that forbid the selling of such material in certain areas. So its not necessarily under their control dependent on their location.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Someone many years ago thought low poly count sex games that were hidden inside the game's code somehow influenced everyone. I couldn't access the mini game by default if you payed me.
That whole thing was a bunch of scare tactics. It was like how they wanted to blame DOOM and Halo for mass killings. They try to put blame on video games.
benicillin
Banned
Hatred might not be an official AO because they decided not to go through with the rating, but Twitch isn't a computer that you can trick by finding loopholes. They know it's an AO and it'll be treated as an AO.
LOL, censorship is not limited to governments. This is censorship. A legal form of it, yes, but censorship nonetheless.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Someone refusing to not participate in something is not censorship.
Fixed1979
Member
I don't doubt that you're correct, I thought it was an odd example/comparison to make...
What are they not participating in? I would consider this the same as a TV station showing a live broadcast on a 5 second delay so they can bleep any words that aren't allowed to air...
Iorv3th
Member
Also not all copies of San Andreas are AO. Just the first shipments with hot coffee, they took it out of later shipments and actually had a 'recall' of the game where you could send your version in to get a copy without hot coffee.
Didn't you have to use a gameshark or something to get into that area anyway? Seems odd they would ban it because of that.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
They're not participating in content that they don't approve.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Only really skimmed the first page but the number of games rated AO by the ESRB is so small that they should be able to make exceptions but it looks like this only covers that reclassified version anyway. GTA:SA's reclassification had less to do with the content and more to do with Rockstar not disclosing that the content, even if it was originally locked away and hidden. Let's not forget that the original, PS2 version of "Hot Coffee" involved fully clothed character models basically dry humping in a shitty mini-game that was more likely cut because it was fucking terrible. The blow up over the whole deal was ridiculous.
Yes, or a modded save file IIRC.
Yes, or a modded save file IIRC.
Pathfinder
Member
There's a very fine line between "not participating" and "rejecting".
Demoskinos
Member
This doesn't even approach censorship. People are just getting mad on principle here. Hey, I just woke up on this fine Thursday morning what can I be outraged by today? They never allowed AO games before this this just makes it extremely public and official.
DidntKnowJack
Member
I see what you're saying. And you're right - NeoGAF isn't censoring pornography by not allowing it on their site. That would mean the porn is already there and they're removing it. Its not censorship if you're merely disallowing such materials to be displayed on your domain. Same with Twitch. (Though I'm not comfortable equating AO games with pornography across the board either.) Twitch is not depriving anyone of their right to view such materials, they're certainly within their right to disallow it however.
Pathfinder
Member
And what curious timing to be making an extremely public and official announcement such as this... hmm...
benicillin
Banned
No one is pretending that the timing isn't vaguely related to Hatred, but it's not JUST to prevent Hatred. That's ridiculous and is only being peddled by people who have for some reason decided that this edgy game is the hill they want to die on. The reality of the situation is that Twitch has never allowed AO games, they saw Hatred coming up and said "oh maybe it would be good to update our policy so it's clear and there are no questions about what we allow or don't allow," not "OH GOD HATRED IS COMING BAN EVERYTHING."
Fixed1979
Member
Thanks for expanding on this. I'm realizing that I didn't really explain my point correctly, or perhaps was just arguing the wrong point.
Pathfinder
Member
You're absolutely right. The announcement must also be for all of those die-hards who need their fix of BMX XXX and Manhunt 2.
benicillin
Banned
You're being purposefully obtuse at this point. Twitch has never allowed AO games so their policy hasn't changed at all, they just wrote something up so people understood their position.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
So is this like an automated thing? That doesn't really ban much. They do know that there are plenty of sex games not rated by the ESRB, right?
Demoskinos
Member
#Chemtrails #Followthemoney #Eyeroll
Pathfinder
Member
You're being purposefully obtuse if you are ignoring the notion that this could potentially be completely agenda-driven.
Repeating the same thing another person said seems to be the ultimate solution to everything ...
autoduelist
Member
While you're absolutely correct about this, and, obviously, as the service Twitch is well within their right to stop people streaming Pokemon if they wanted to -- it's still important to recognize that when a dominant player in an industry 'bans' stuff, it does actually have an impact. Just because its within their right, doesn't mean one can't take issue with it.
Demoskinos
Member
And even if it is again its their business their rules either play by them or don't. If you feel the need to stream AO games there are other places to do so.
Pathfinder
Member
Which is exactly a point I made earlier in the thread.
I just feel like Twitch should be more up front and honest about their want to not have Hatred on their streaming service, and not try to sugar coat it. They should stick to their convictions.