Its the latest example atleast.
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Scarlett Johansson talks sexism, sidesteps 'Ghost in the Shell' controversy
- Thread starter lightskintwin
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That's really the saddest part to me. So many k-pop stars speak perfect English nowadays. This country fucking sucks.
freeofgreed
Member
When has white washing ever worked though? Most recent examples I can think of all bombed. So if the producer is thinking this will help his odds, maybe he's not the best bet. Also this movie will probably bomb as well, and the negative press over the casting isn't helping either.
Absolutely.
I'm fairly ambivalent about the issue in this specific case but very against white washing in general. That being said, what else are they going to say? It is in their best interests for the movie to be successful. They're not going to trash talk it.
Discotheque
Banned
Exactly. I liked him in John Carter too but Tim Riggins is one of the tv GOATs. So I also thought he was destined for big things after that show
A shame his career kinda fizzled but hopefully he finds a niche in smaller movies instead of falling off completely
Armie Hammer has been appearing in some cool stuff as of late. He pivoted correctly
Fancyarcher
Member
I'm more interested in the overall quality of the film. Nationality is more secondary to me, but it also important. Personally, I have problem with Johansson's casting, though I can see why some people are upset.
Then he's not a bankable star these days, then again most aren't thanks to the internet age anyway.
Then he's not a bankable star these days, then again most aren't thanks to the internet age anyway.
How does this movie help WoC get cast as leads in more films?
If "no Asian actress are bankable" is the reason this role was whitewashed, how is her success with this film going to change that?
Is Johansson going to try get things changed? She most certain ignored the issue and made it about white feminism when asked about it.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
There is a funny interview or an article or something where someone thought Donnie Yen was a big newcomer after Rogue One, despite having a successful acting career in China for years. It's sad that other countries want someone like Jackie Chan in their movies more than America nowadays. Jackie can't do anything anymore yet Robert De Niro can star in another trash movie.
See, this is exactly what I mean. You want her to not make the film at all. So, you're saying that all women should stay down until all women can be elevated to equality, but how likely is that to happen? I mean, honestly? If you believe that racism exists and its real, then you have to understand that a minority women making these first strides is a lot less likely than a white woman. I'm concerned about women's rights and equality in general and you seem to be advocating an "all or nothing" approach, but if that's the approach we take the answer will obviously be "nothing" for everyone. Until society accepts women in these rolls, generally, no one will have any opportunities. And because racism is real and exists, the odds of that first leap being taken by a minority woman are small. I think small steps now are better than waiting for everyone to suddenly be OK with a giant leap, at some undefinable point in the future. Otherwise, we're just telling all women to wait their turn and the wait will be all the longer for all of us.
Inferno313
Banned
I really only think that's true if by "mainstream" we're literally only talking about the people who see 1-2 Marvel, Fast and the Furious, or Star Wars blockbuster films in the theater each. Even then, it's likely that they may know her as "that girl from the Bourne movie."
But that's kind of irrelevant to my larger point, which is that when we're trying to identify the systems in place that keep these woc down, it's important to be precise. It's true that Hollywood does occasionally spring for genuine unknowns in major films, but it's more common that they hire someone who is an established and successful name in the industry someone on the level of Alicia Vikander. The problem is that there are very, very few asian-american actresses who even get the opportunities to reach that level. There's literally been one asian actress to win an Oscar, and that was decades ago.
It's a deeper issue then: "Why didn't they cast an asian actress for this role", the problem is that asian actresses are almost entirely shut out of the film industry from the ground floor.
Taylor fucking sucked in True Detective. Like he was so bad.
The "no bankable Asian actor/actress" argument has always been a troubling one or at the very least supports a self-perpetuating mindset. The people who say this never bother to offer ideas or solutions they think would alleviate the issue and feel content to just let things be the way they are.
You can have an Asian lead and still draw in crowds if you also have a support cast of recognizable, bankable faces. Budget an issue? Scarlet is one of the highest paid actors in Hollywood, spread that cash around to your supporting cast instead.
They messed this up years past with non-starter schlocke like Warrior's Way. Asian lead, but that movie had a lame concept and what, Kate Bosworth as the support? Yikes.
You can have an Asian lead and still draw in crowds if you also have a support cast of recognizable, bankable faces. Budget an issue? Scarlet is one of the highest paid actors in Hollywood, spread that cash around to your supporting cast instead.
They messed this up years past with non-starter schlocke like Warrior's Way. Asian lead, but that movie had a lame concept and what, Kate Bosworth as the support? Yikes.
My recollection of Ghost in the Shell is that it is somewhat difficult to follow, and almost aggressively ponderous and slow-paced. It's one of those anime "masterworks" where I never understood what all the hype and praise was about.
I'd like to give it a second shot since I haven't seen the movie in like 20 years, but watching it just before the release of the Hollywood version would probably be a bad idea.
davidwhangchoi
Member
thanks! i kinda wondering why it was so popular, i was into Akira and someone told me back then host in the shell was disappointing so i never got around to watching it. it's strange there's a live action movie of it coming out.
shoot! i literally just replied and saw your post. this is exactly what i heard back in high school.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Hari Seldon
Member
Hollywood is pretty shit in general lol. No one but Disney makes any money. Their output is largely garbage. Never in my life have I cared less about Hollywood's output than I do now. Long form TV is where everything is at: quality, money, and public mindshare.
Jackie Chan is a bad example. He's mainly sticking to Chinese movies because he makes a killing on them. He was third highest paid male actor last year.
lightskintwin
Banned
Overall I agree with you, and even agree with with your assesment of Alicia Vikander and her established success in Hollywood, but she is not a mainstream star by any means. You're average Joe Blow who watches movies has never heard of her. It will be Tomb Raider that makes her name to the mainstream.
BronsonLee
Member
Jackie also did Skiptrace which was a fucking weird ass hodge podge of American and Chinese shit
Like they had a Mongolian gypsy troupe inexplicably break out into Rollin' In The Deep
Like they had a Mongolian gypsy troupe inexplicably break out into Rollin' In The Deep
Jackie was estimated to have made $61M last year. Only Dwayne Johnson and Kevin Hart were placed higher. No one needs to cry over his fate vs De Niro's
lol. That movie, man. not even so bad it's good.
While i understand the importance of asking her and pressuring her about GITS and white washing, isn't it kinda undermining her impact for the cause of gender equality by going at her with "but white washing!!"?
Because it all feels like a trap, like "Fuck you scarlet, you are part of whitewashing culture, so that means your pro feminism talk is invalid!"
Because it all feels like a trap, like "Fuck you scarlet, you are part of whitewashing culture, so that means your pro feminism talk is invalid!"
It's not about it being anti-Asian but rather who has a track record. If ScarJo was black and Lucy had still been the slamdunk it was, I imagine she still would have been cast.
People like the producers making this movie are interested primarily in previous results so they can put that on some chart and give a 15 minute Powerpoint presentation to an executive.
BronsonLee
Member
I think Jackie Chan should fight The Rock
Yep, it's definitely strange. I wouldn't call the series famous by any stretch of the imagination, particularly in the west. Sci-fi in general doesn't have a good record of successful movies.
If it is famous, it's famous for its filmic qualities, not because of its significance beyond a specific niche in pop culture.
Oppo
Member
sorry lightskintwin. i'll take the victory of more female roles as an actual win, even while acknowledging that it is not moving every ball down the field.
this below, is poisonous sarcasm btw, it disrespects the progress made thus far, however meagre you deem it:
this below, is poisonous sarcasm btw, it disrespects the progress made thus far, however meagre you deem it:
lightskintwin said:
John Kowalski
Banned
So i take it she doesn't perceive the Major has having a racial identity? The question isn't very specific and the answer doesn't clarify.
Hari Seldon
Member
The Rock would kill Jackie Chan lol.
How will the whitewashing of this role help WoC?
Johansson ignored the questions, so she clearly doesn't care and even WoC have the same opportunities as her, that's one less role for her.
How will society "accept" WoC when they are not even given a chance? How many roles should be whitewashed so society will accept WoC?
Despite what you think, white women aren't the default and them changing things in Hollywood doesn't automatically help WoC.
In a pure muscle fight, maybe, but jackie chan is the master of comedy prop improv fighting, you can't forget about that!
lightskintwin
Banned
SMH. It was her answer that decided whitewashing was unimportant to her impact on gender equality for this role that people have an issue with.
That's fine, but I'll continue to take issue with her lack of acknowledgment of the issue when directly asked about it.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Women of color in the industry face two hurdles, as the label suggests: their sex and their skin color. By saying that fighting sexism doesn't benefit WoC, you are diminishing that part of their struggle.
BronsonLee
Member
The only thing The Rock would do in that fight is make a quip and then get kicked in the goddamn face by the GOAT
Jackie's knees aren't what they used to be. lol
Hari Seldon
Member
True, if props are involved then Jackie Chan would win.
Fancyarcher
Member
Eh, it's not like European countries and the likes are rolling over large amounts of cash to get Jackie cast in one of their films. He largely works in Asian related countries these days, for obvious reasons.
Inferno313
Banned
Considering the character, in this film, is just "The Major" and not "Mokoto" she is correct in that statement. It's not that she's playing a Japanese woman, but that this take on the character is no longer Japanese.
That's not to say this isn't an example of "whitewashing," just that she's ultimately correct in her statement on a technical level.
Extra Sauce
Member
I hope you're wrong regardless of the movie's quality because I want cyberpunk to take off. The potential box office one-two punch of Ghost in the Shell and Blade Runner: Do Androids Dream of Electric Boogaloo could usher in a new wave of big-budget cyberpunk productions.
BronsonLee
Member
Busty's just a hater of all things anime
he's on the right path
The way forward is pretty obvious; either enough people support Asian stars lower on the rungs so they get a shot to headline something, rolling stone and all that, or some studio guy/gal takes a chance on casting on a film that's a success and it slowly breaks down the barriers that way.
I don't disagree it's self-perpetuating, because with these sorts of issues it's very much a chicken-or-egg situation. You can't make a big film without bankable leads, can't generate those bankable leads unless they're given roles, but they aren't given roles because they're yet not bankable leads. This isn't even a racial issue—as anyone who has had to apply to entry-level jobs demanding years of experience, it's bullshit that occurs in every industry, and those who are disadvantaged are going to bear the brunt of it.
The problem is that while the solution is obvious, the mechanics of effecting that change aren't. Are people going to see Hidden Figures because it's about women? Because it's about colored women? Or that it's a good movie, or that it's a good movie that features people of color? More to the point, if Hidden Figures was trash, is it someone's responsibility to support crappy entertainment in the hope it somehow translates to more opportunities for minorities or women? Is that something that is enough of a concern to enough people that it can be a large enough economic force to push the studios to consider? And then with these blockbusters it becomes an even bigger issue because now American sensibilities and concerns are increasingly marginalized for a global audience.
It is true that countries in Asia like Korea, Hong Kong and increasingly China all have their own film industries that means actors don't have to look to Hollywood for 'success'. Just because their ancestral homes offer opportunities, that doesn't mean Asian Americans shouldn't have a place in the country they call home. For guys like Daniel Wu, the US was their home and some even had to learn Cantonese to thrive in HK like he did.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
John Kowalski
Banned
The only thing we have is:
And that's apparently just an edited excerpt. Without reading the issue itself, which is not out until a week from today, there's nothing that can be said as to whether she avoided the question or not, because we don't know what the question actually was. By the looks of her answer, the question might have been very general as well.
There are other concerns pertaining to the exclusion of its japanese origins, mostly concerning the political statements it makes and the themes it explores. Ghost in The Shell, today, is invariably anachronistic, though it might not look it what with the robots and all.
How does this movie help WoC get cast as leads in more films?
But that's the thing, there was no real way to answer that wouldn't make her come off as either a bitch (what she answered) or hypocrite (trash talking the people who gave her the role of a japanese character that she took) and ultimately her credibility was hurt.
And while both topics are important, it's a shitty thing to use Diversity to hurt her valid points about Gender equality.
I'm going to assume that your response is so brief because you are unable to articulate why it's a 'weird' post.
Salty Rice
Member
She is great casting for the Major.
Why are you posting in a thread you don't care about?
Just wanted to let people know you don't care?
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