rob305
Member
Too bad you wont be able to experience true next-gen on a 9TF console at all
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Rumor : Xbox Lockhart Reveal soon: 4Tf, Limited next gen features
- Thread starter Agnostic2020
- Start date
Erm, you cannot figure out die size of an APU by extrapolating from a PC GPU die. It's not that simple. APUs are much more complicated, see the chart below to understand what I am getting at.
Keep in mind the estimates of WGP were on the higher side, they are smaller in RDNA2.
Well you can get a rough estimate.
Easier way is xtor density x xtor quantity.
Series x is 360mm² and 15B xtors so just over 41M xtors per mm².
Zen2 with all the cache and IO is 6B but i doubt the console socs have all 32MB of L3 cache and they dont need all the IO so you could probably chop that down to 4B for logic and 8MB cache + the required IO, maybe less even. That leaves 11B for 56CUs and all the gpu logic gubbins. A 20 CU (18 active) @1.6Ghz would hit 4Tflops and if they scale everything then that would be about 4B xtors too.
Total of 8B xtors at the same density and you hit 192mm². Considering Renoir has an xtor density of 63.3M per mm² then at that kind of density (doable due to lower power and less worry about hot spots) then that comes down to just under 130mm².
This kind of SoC would probably get more than double the number of dies per wafer at 192mm² so chip cost would be half.
Combine with smaller ssd, less ram, cheaper cooling solution and you can hit a pretty nice price point for a 1080p machine.
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Starcheif
Member
Could you imagine IF the cheap Xbox was almost as strong as the PS5! The internet would burn down.
MisterXDTV
Member
Too bad you wont be able to experience true next-gen on a 9TF console at all
Wait, now we know that 4TF is enough for next-gen. I think 10.3 might work just fine....
GHG
Member
If a 7-8TF machine is "almost as strong" as the PS5 then is the PS5 almost as strong as the Xbox Series X?
Starcheif
Member
gamerforever
Banned
Too bad you wont be able to experience true next-gen on a 9TF console at all
Enjoy your 12tf monster with no games
ColonialRaptor
Member
My expectation is that for this to work it will be able to run all Xbox SX games at the same detail and graphics quality as the full console however it will be limited to 1080p and maybe 30fps.
Demon2blades
Member
Seen many next gen df's have you ?... I didn't think so I'd save the stomps for when the df comparison articles come out or you have actual proof
geordiemp
Member
I am not interested in a cheap console from Sony or MS to buy but it is interesting from a design standpoint...
But why 30 fps ?
All next gen consoles will have Ryzen cpus, no need to run 30 on any game no more, that was the Jaguar generation.
Zen2 and RDNA2 4TF is fine for 1080p60 and any game
Zen2 and RDNA2 whether is 10.3 or 12.1 are both fine for 4k60, it will come down to things like bandwidth, API efficiency and other things really, Caches, scrubbers and finer detail and efficiencies we do not know yet.
I really dont get the trolling, all 3 are fine machines.
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metareferential
Member
Because we'll have lots of really visually expensive games running at 4k(ish) @30 fps.
So Lockhart games could end up being 1080p30.
GHG
Member
If the CPU is the same then the console will be more GPU limited than CPU limited in most games.
Just because the CPU is strong it doesn't mean 60fps is going to be guaranteed, especially if the games are configured to look as similar as possible to the series X version.
Klayzer
Member
Dont bother. He's to far gone. No gameplay from either console, but the Xbox stomps the PS5 already in his mind. Its literally impossible to have a conversation with him without Microsoft hyperbole flying from his trap.Seen many next gen df's have you ?... I didn't think so I'd save the stomps for when the df comparison articles come out or you have actual proof
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
We'll see how far gone I am when both consoles release my guy.
GHG
Member
Resolution isn't the only limiting factor as far as GPU's are concerned. Certain things like particle effects, volumetric, high quality AA and Ray tracing can all bog a GPU down.
It's not just about bandwidth either, it's raw computational power and if the GPU isn't capable of rendering all of the things being thrown at it fast enough then you can end up with 30fps very quickly, regardless of the resolution.
If 60fps is to be targeted on the lower end machine then expect the visual settings to be lowered in comparison to the Series X version.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Thats not how hardware works.
Look at consoles and a high end PC. A high end PC runs and renders the game tens time better than PS4 pro and one x. Yet all platforms can still play them.
Because the devs maxes out what they can in each platform.
Did they change the Xbox one controller, or are you just trolling?
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GHG
Member
If they eye candy is turned down (substantially in some cases) then yeh of course it will be.
Still don't see consoles targeting anything other than 30fps for the most part next gen though. As always the 60-120fps song and dance will be long forgotten once we are a couple of years in.
DaGwaphics
Member
This! There is no guarantee that all settings would remain the same outside of resolution, a few additional adjustments might be required here and there to even things out.
ColonialRaptor
Member
Do you really expect to see and end of 30fps in the next gen? I’ll believe it when I see it and not before.
DrAspirino
Banned
4 TF is enough for next-gen AT 1080P. 4 TF is nowhere near enough (and even 10.3 isn't enough) for 4K next-gen.
At least in my case, I don't care for 4K, since I don't have any mean to enjoy content at that resolution....and with this economic depression, I seriously doubt many people will buy a new TV just for a 4K console (or even a 4K console they can't fully enjoy).
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Alphagear
Member
10.2 is more than enough for 4K next gen.
geordiemp
Member
Well I will because I intend not to buy any exclusive no choice 30 fps games, even with my C7 OLED I dont give a crap beyond CB 1440 and some nice HDR on Ps4pro. I normally select 1080p to play at 60 FPS if there is a performance option, which many games on pro offer nowadays so ....
Last gen when ps4 pro was coming out, all I wanted was zen and not jaguar, the TF was irrelevant.
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Bolivar687
Banned
This will be what sinks Microsoft's next gen campaign.
Boss Mog
Member
The baseline is already messed up since every series X game has to run on XB1 S.
Starcheif
Member
Great way to bring in the casual consumer guess but I really do not see the need for Lockhart.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
6TF at 199$? I got one better, how about MS just gives it away for free? Now that would really be going for the kill!
Alphagear
Member
Yes and shaft the hardcore.
Casual gamers have a better choice for 299 dollars. Its called the Nintendo Switch.
oldergamer
Member
Not this time.
Syn Marnotrawny
Banned
Switch is for kiddies and man-children
Klayzer
Member
If the Lockhart is priced under 200 (which I know it won't) it could be a genius way to get more Xbox systems into the everyday man's livingroom. Or it could be ignored for the SEX.
Whatever the case, I like Microsoft's aggressiveness with the Xbox brand right now. Nobody can't say that they aren't trying or investing big money into the platform.
Whatever the case, I like Microsoft's aggressiveness with the Xbox brand right now. Nobody can't say that they aren't trying or investing big money into the platform.
Agnostic2020
Member
PocoJoe
Banned
Maybe.... I don't know
I can't wait to see what PS/MS do with all the new power in the coming years.
"people" wont look at TFlop numbers at all, if you mean people as in average customers/common folks
If they look one number it is the "5" after PlayStation, and then they wonder "what the heck is this X thing with dust on top" on the dark corner of the store
This Tflops talk is just pure madness and desperate outburst of insecurity from some fanboys that think that having a bigger number in specs sheet would somehow magically make "people" forgot super popular brand and choose their beloved one instead.
Both systems will get nice next gen games, unless they fuck up something badly like force devs to have restrictions for design
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
That Lockhart shit sounds absolutely terrible. And a great way to hold games back the entire gen.
God bless Sony 1st Party.
God bless Sony 1st Party.
Syn Marnotrawny
Banned
Like I care. Gonna create another acc if there will be a need. Mods here are faggots anyway.Based on your signature, should we report you ?
Agnostic2020
Member
Dude I was joking .wtf is the matter . Lighten up and be respectful .
Syn Marnotrawny
Banned
Respect has to be earned. Clowns like gamernyc are running wild and some brainlet thought it would be funny to put a sig like this one on this acc.
GHG
Member
You have no clue what you're talking about and obviously missed the context of my post.
And lol at you thinking lockhart is in any way equal to PS5.
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
It is though
Agnostic2020
Member
Ps5 is 84% of xsx in gpu and "xsx stomps it".
Lockhart is 36% of ps5 in gpu and "ps5 might have a chance against it and its an even playing field " .
Got it. Thanks for objective factual info . Seems fair
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ABrokenToy
Member
Here's how I see it:
No Disc Drive
No Ethernet Port, strictly wifi
4-6TF - won't need the cooling system of XSX
Same SSD
Same CPU
8-12GB RAM
$299
No Disc Drive
No Ethernet Port, strictly wifi
4-6TF - won't need the cooling system of XSX
Same SSD
Same CPU
8-12GB RAM
$299
AGRacing
Member
Trolololol