Support NeoGAF

[twilo99]

So what the verge found out months ago was actually accurate...

Velocity Architecture
DirectStorage
Sampler Feedback Streaming
True 4K
The Cloud
Machine Learning

The list goes on....

Do you consider these clever words/terms?

Its all fluff.

There are technologies in there that obviously do provide benefits, but very often those benefits DO NOT correspond with what the marketing department is telling you, case in point.. this very story.

 

[John Wick]

What cost savings? The console is $500 for disc edition just like Microsoft. If there were cost savings it didnt get passed down to the consumer then why should I worry about it?

And the IO does not take up much space at all. The PS5 APU is around 308 mm2. XSX APU is 360mm2. Thats around a 18% difference. That manifests in a 18% performance advantage. If the IO was so huge, their APU wouldve been much more closer to the XSX APU in size.


This simply isnt true. A faster SSD will always be more expensive. What's next? A faster RAM isnt more expensive? Then why did they go with only 448 GBps RAM bandwidth? Why not go with the 560 GBps? Because it's more expensive and they had already blew their budget on a SSD.

What other games Sony has shown that you see fully utilizing the SSD? Sony has literally shown games coming out in 2023 and beyond. That's 3-4 years into a console life cycle. Which game can only be done on the 5.5 GBps PS5?

So why don't you stop bitching and just buy a Series X? The 18% extra teraflops should keep you more than happy. Everything you bitch about being in the PS5 that is bad shouldn't present a problem for you in the Xbox.
All we get is complaints Sony haven't released any information, they haven't done an E3 style presentation, why they showing Deathloop, now the SSD isn't being utilised fully or properly, Sony made bad decisions on SSD etc etc.
As for your points. The SSD in PS5 is a gen 4 like the Xbox. Sony aren't using the premium fastest chips. It's the 12 lanes and priority that help along with the IO complex. So how did they blow their budget on the SSD?
Cost savings? The Xbox APU is more expensive than PS5 one that's how. Sony have already announced the PS5 Disc is no longer sold at a loss.
Your right the IO was free and didn't cost Sony anything.
When engines get designed around only SSD you'll see why the speed was necessary.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Yes. Any NVME SSD on a decent PC has similar (if not better) SSD than the PS5. The main trick is software, NOT hardware, since the architecture is exactly the same.

Why do you praise so much Cerny and his "kinda normal" SSD like he was some kind of genius, when he's clearly not?

I mean... as a system architect, Dr. Christian Jacobi and his Z15 CPU for mainframes with massive L2 cache, or MSc. Johnny Srouji, with the extremely customized M1 CPU are far more innovative than what Cerny did with the PS4/5 (both of which are glorified x86 PCs).

To me, if a person can't create aunique architecture and/or innovate in ways that are impossible for regular PC manufacturers or builders, then that person isn't a true system architect, and is just another glorified PC builder (like Apple was before the M1, during the x86 era).

As much as I hate Apple, I agree wholeheartedly. Apple did an amazing job on the m1. The same with the other people you mentioned. It's odd people give Cerny a pass, and hold him to high regards, when he didn't really do much, besides pick the parts from AMD, and make minor adjustments. It's not like he created RDNA himself. If anything Lisa Su is owed more credit for both Xbox and ps5, than cerny or the guys behind Xbox.

 

[twilo99]

Spot on.

Not only is the 3.2 gb/s SSD just as good as the other two compared against (aside from a few examples the write tests DF did which were oddly high), but nobody even knows how much lower it could go and the loading and gameplay would still be in tact.

You never know. If DF had a compatible WD SSD running at 2 gb/s it might had worked just as well too. Nobody knows the bottom, but at minimum a cheap 3.2 gb/s SSD works just as good.

Now everyone knows why Sony said "recommended 5.5 gb/s". They are just trying to cover their ass, but they fully know that SSDs running at lower speeds works fine. If games didnt work well or not at all, they would had made it mandatory the SSDs have to be minimum 5.5 gb/s.

It's not even like a PC game with min and reco specs where a gamer running the game on min specs will have a game that looks and runs much worse than a pimped out high end rig. Instead, it's like a game where two gamers have two PCs, but the games look and play the exact same except one game loads in a fraction of a second faster than the other. Thats it. And it's not even like the person with an SSD that is 40% slower has 40% worse loading times. It's more like only -10% worse loading times.

So even the mighty R&C "It can only be done on PS5 SSD" isn't so mandatory after all. The one game they were touting as SSD central due to warping from world to world. And the shittiest compatible SSD DF could get their hands on worked perfectly fine.

Ratchet could probably run just fine on a 2gb/s drive, the decrease in performance, if any, would be negligible.

I think this particular "next gen" game would run perfectly fine on a "last gen spec" xbox series S console without a problem.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think we eventually will see some games use this speed at some point but who knows when or even if that happens.

I will say this several of us watched the road to ps5 reveal and the actual PS5 full reveal and even then some higher up people within Xbox laughed and said that SSD was way too overpowered and Sony spent way too much time and money on it as it would never become the norm outside of a small handful of games MAYBE

We shall see someday

Yet the PC arena are adopting a direct storage method just for these scenarios. Sony must've been on to something.

 

[THE DUCK]

As far as instant loading levels, as far as actual gameplay goes, it does nothing for gamers in 99% of games. (The instant jumps in ratchet were cool, didn't really make or break the game, many sections could have just been a grapling hook instead)

However, if they do manage to leverage the ssd/io in terms of real time asset loading, it could have a real effect on the output graphics. But this remains to be seen.

 

[twilo99]

As much as I hate Apple, I agree wholeheartedly. Apple did an amazing job on the m1. The same with the other people you mentioned. It's odd people give Cerny a pass, and hold him to high regards, when he didn't really do much, besides pick the parts from AMD, and make minor adjustments. It's not like he created RDNA himself. If anything Lisa Su is owed more credit for both Xbox and ps5, than cerny or the guys behind Xbox.

The engineers behind the actual silicon are the real heroes, but there are a lot of people involved in these projects that deserve credit, including Cerny, even if he is just a manager that made sure the PS5 project was heading in the right direction.

Apple made an amazing investment when they acquired Palo Alto Semiconductor, that's the only reason they are where they are in terms of their silicon development, and obviously they have to rely on TSMC for production. Their CPUs are indeed stellar..

The team behind the current xbox machines seems to very capable as well, if I had to guess this is the best team of people they've had behind the project since the very beginning and it shows in the products, they are both very elegant designs, but you are right.. AMD takes huge credit here.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Yet the PC arena are adopting a direct storage method just for these scenarios. Sony must've been on to something.

Faster storage is just that, faster storage. Anyone who thinks PC would remain stagnant, and not getting fastest I/O is a clown. Drives get faster, i/o becomes faster. Nothing to do with Sony, and people who believe that, aren't the highest IQ in the basket.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The engineers behind the actual silicon are the real heroes, but there are a lot of people involved in these projects that deserve credit, including Cerny, even if he is just a manager that made sure the PS5 project was heading in the right direction.

Apple made an amazing investment when they acquired Palo Alto Semiconductor, that's the only reason they are where they are in terms of their silicon development, and obviously they have to rely on TSMC for production. Their CPUs are indeed stellar..

The team behind the current xbox machines seems to very capable as well, if I had to guess this is the best team of people they've had behind the project since the very beginning and it shows in the products, they are both very elegant designs, but you are right.. AMD takes huge credit here.

Thats the way PR works.

Companies choose one or a handful of people to be the face of the company. And for Sony hardware it's Mark Cerny. 1000 R&D guys in a lab can be doing all the hardcore work, but I dont think there is one gamer who knows anyone else other than Cerny for hardware. The image is he does all the work.

Same goes for Tesla. Most people probably think Elon Musk is the guy who drafted up all the design and engineering for cars. You never know. He might do jack shit for EV R&D. But his goal is to the face of the company as CEO and brand promoter. I bet most people don't know any other employee names at Tesla except for Musk.

 

[sircaw]

Too much hate in this thread

Sad times.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

The whole test was useless without something to compare it to. The SSD said it was rated 3500MBps but the PS5 rated it at over 5000Mbps and they just assumed the PS5 was incorrect . Some of these drives are rated for a temp range under constant load so it may well be 3500Mbps some I/O scenarios but it may also be running over 5000 for short periods of time if the drive is not being used . DF need to benchmark this drive on PC for burst and long term speeds instead of assuming the # on the package is correct

 

[SlimySnake]

So why don't you stop bitching and just buy a Series X? The 18% extra teraflops should keep you more than happy. Everything you bitch about being in the PS5 that is bad shouldn't present a problem for you in the Xbox.
All we get is complaints Sony haven't released any information, they haven't done an E3 style presentation, why they showing Deathloop, now the SSD isn't being utilised fully or properly, Sony made bad decisions on SSD etc etc.

lol Whats this nonsense? You call yourself John Wick and let yourself get triggered by some valid criticisms of a fucking console. Get a grip. Thats what we do here on gaming forums. If you want a safe space where we do nothing but jerk off Cerny, Phil Spencer and Myamoto, try era.

A console that is being potentially bottlenecked by its ram bandwidth and tflops count because of its architect's fascination with having the biggest baddest SSD deserves some criticism. Bitching is the least we can do. When MS first announced the 52 CU GPU without infinity cache, many here speculated that increasing the CU count without increasing shader arrays might bottleneck the system. When they revealed their split ram architecture, people also speculated that it would cause issues throttling the entire bandwidth. Is that bitching? The entire forum went up in flames when Series S was confirmed, to have terrible specs. Should we never talk about the series s? Should we not have talked about the potential bottlenecks in the system because John Wick might get triggered? I mean I get that you overreact over people killing your dog, but over some criticisms of a console's architecture? Get a grip.

And I couldnt care less that Sony is making profits off of their console. How does that impact me? Sure Jim Ryan gets to afford a Yacht, but at the end of the day I get faster loading and 18%-44% fewer pixels because of fewer tflops and ram bandwidth.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Faster storage is just that, faster storage. Anyone who thinks PC would remain stagnant, and not getting fastest I/O is a clown. Drives get faster, i/o becomes faster. Nothing to do with Sony, and people who believe that, aren't the highest IQ in the basket.

Did I say it had anything to do with Sony?

It'll be okay. The PC will be okay when Sony is mentioned in the same sentence.

 

[Rea]

i do you do ? because it wouldn't seem

Then expain, how is GPU bottlenecked when data transfering. I'll wait

 

[NickFire]

Feisty thread. Understood that it's early in the consoles life cycle, but we are a year in and it now appears the vaunted SSD speed so loudly proclaimed as one of the reasons the PS5 was superior to the X has seriously been diminished by this reveal.
Remember, Sony believes in gen.........errrr wait, remember, Sony has all the best gam .......errrr wait ......a lot of great games!!!
Still, relax PS5 owners, while the PS5 may not be better than the X, it's still great, the machine delivers the games in a very nice way, your self esteem is intact!

Is there a secret second GAF that no one ever invited me to? Cause to me it feels like there must be with all the revisionist history I am seeing over this DF test.

Imagine people dunking a football on a 6 foot basketball hoop, and then beating their chest and screaming homerun. Arguments like the bolded remind me of that.

Spoiler though - being at peace with a design choice =/= claiming one is superior for hardware reasons. Everyone has always known Series X has the faster cpu and gpu. The issue was PS5 fans just didn't care very much.

 

[THE DUCK]

Is there a secret second GAF that no one ever invited me to? Cause to me it feels like there must be with all the revisionist history I am seeing over this DF test.

Imagine people dunking a football on a 6 foot basketball hoop, and then beating their chest and screaming homerun. Arguments like the bolded remind me of that.

I'm not sure what you missed, but there were tons of posts about how the PS5 was clearly superior due to the SSD......dude it's all about the SSD!!!! MS is toast they said. You must have missed the party, no revisionist history.

It was like this: Xbox side - TFLOPS !!!!! RAW POWER!!! GAMEPASS!!!!! BACKWARD COMPAT!!! ................ Sony Side - SSD!!!!!! CERNY!!!!!! GENERATIONS!!!!!! GAMESSS!!!!!!!!

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Did I say it had anything to do with Sony?

It'll be okay. The PC will be okay when Sony is mentioned in the same sentence.

It seems insinuated from your post, and post history, as a console warrior, so yes. I can infer what you more than likely meant. I could be wrong, but the probability of that, is very low, based on you being a PS stan.

 

[On Demand]

So you are telling me that a SSD that is rated at 1 GBPS can magically become a 2gbps drive, just from the I/O, while bypassing the max SSD speeds?! Holy shit! Why would i buy a 7gbps SSD for my PC, if I can just get a magical 3.5gbps drive, and apply Cerny cecret cause!


Hint: compression can help, but you aren't turning a slower drive into a faster drive, by just the I/O. That's like me turning a 350HP car into 700HP by applying a new coat of paint. Not gonna happen.


Insult ontop injury occurred when you called me a clown, without realizing you got the entire clown outfit on, plus the clown car .

What a dumb post.

I never said slower drives would magically become faster and run at 100GB second.

The point is you can’t assume the performance of PS5 SSD just by using a slower drive. Because that same slower drive is still taking advantage of the custom I/O. It isn’t completely independent of it. So a 3GB drive would still perform better in the PS5 than it would without the PS5 hardware.

That’s why all these slower drives test are useless and doesn’t prove anything about PS5 5.5GB SSD not being needed. For a test done properly a game designed around PS5’s SSD and I/O would have to be made for other platforms that don’t have PS5 SSD speeds and custom I/O. All these test are doing is showing that PS5 can use extended storage.

A lot of people in this thread jumping to conclusions claiming victory over a flawed pointless test. Wouldn’t expect anything else from the green discord cult though.


Ringling Brothers Circus clown show is that way

 

[scydrex]

What a dumb post.

I never said slower drives would magically become faster and run at 100GB second.

The point is you can’t assume the performance of PS5 SSD just by using a slower drive. Because that same slower drive is still taking advantage of the custom I/O. It isn’t completely independent of it. So a 3GB drive would still perform better in the PS5 than it would without the PS5 hardware.

That’s why all these slower drives test are useless and doesn’t prove anything about PS5 5.5GB SSD not being needed. For a test done properly a game designed around PS5’s SSD and I/O would have to be made for other platforms that don’t have PS5 SSD speeds and custom I/O. All these test are doing is showing that PS5 can use extended storage.

A lot of people in this thread jumping to conclusions claiming victory over a flawed pointless test. Wouldn’t expect anything else from the green discord cult though.


Ringling Brothers Circus clown show is that way

Jumping to conclusions because of a game that is not even fully utilizing the SSD/IO according to the people who made the game.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

What a dumb post.

I never said slower drives would magically become faster and run at 100GB second.

The point is you can’t assume the performance of PS5 SSD just by using a slower drive. Because that same slower drive is still taking advantage of the custom I/O. It isn’t completely independent of it. So a 3GB drive would still perform better in the PS5 than it would without the PS5 hardware.

That’s why all these slower drives test are useless and doesn’t prove anything about PS5 5.5GB SSD not being needed. For a test done properly a game designed around PS5’s SSD and I/O would have to be made for other platforms that don’t have PS5 SSD speeds and custom I/O. All these test are doing is showing that PS5 can use extended storage.

A lot of people in this thread jumping to conclusions claiming victory over a flawed pointless test. Wouldn’t expect anything else from the green discord cult though.


Ringling Brothers Circus clown show is that way

This reminds me of when I upgraded to gigabit internet. I had a modem that only could sustain 500 plus megabytes per second. Within not even 24 hours I've upgraded to a 2 GB router.


You have shown absolutely nothing two substantiate your original post which I replied to. You have done nothing besides proving that you are a clown. There is nothing in this post that refutes what I originally said. What is your point anyways? Especially if you aren't refuting anything that I've said? What a fucking


The game can run on much slower SSD's, change my FACTS.

 

[phil_t98]

Ratchet? Never seen a comment about that. I think the portals wouldn’t be the same experience right now on the pc. UE5, we haven’t seen the demo as a playable one on pc (only editor breakdown) and not the equal PS5 demo. Otherwise we would’ve seen a side by side by now.

DonJuanSchlong you must be a bot that only shows up when someone post “UE5”.

have you not looked into the rachet thread or the unveiling of rachet thread? Full of people saying only possible because of ps5 SSD

unreal 5 demo can definatly be done in Xbox and probibly even better on PC. Let’s not pretend it cant

 

[DeepEnigma]

It seems insinuated from your post, and post history, as a console warrior, so yes. I can infer what you more than likely meant. I could be wrong, but the probability of that, is very low, based on you being a PS stan.

Well, you are wrong. Throwing stones at glass houses and all.

To get to the point, if speed is the natural evolution, and Sony opted for a faster I/O instead of bare bones PCIE/SSD, then why are they being bashed FOR THAT NATURAL EVOLUTION all the time on here?

Goalposts stay derping.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm not sure what you missed, but there were tons of posts about how the PS5 was clearly superior due to the SSD......dude it's all about the SSD!!!! MS is toast they said. You must have missed the party, no revisionist history.

It was like this: Xbox side - TFLOPS !!!!! RAW POWER!!! GAMEPASS!!!!! BACKWARD COMPAT!!! ................ Sony Side - SSD!!!!!! CERNY!!!!!! GENERATIONS!!!!!! GAMESSS!!!!!!!!

Yeah I can attest to this. Because I was part of the Sony squad who fell for their generations lies and SSD overhypes. I remember someone saying that the I/O and SSD will allow for more detailed graphics. The only game where we got that was in AC Valhalla where PS5 had more foliage than even the PC version. None of the other games had better textures or any other kind of graphical improvement over the xbox or PC versions.

 

[mckmas8808]

I dont know man. You said you knew for a fact.

Sony has announced just two next gen only games from today until 2023. Spiderman and Wolverine which is most likely a 2024 title. Which game do you see coming out in Fall 2022 that will be fully utilizing the PS5 SSD?

I'm not convinced that we know of all the 2022 games that Sony will have. But honestly, I think it's mainly due to Covid and the later 2022 games will just be 2024 games anyway.

You know exactly what these people are basing their statements on...the logo tattooed on their asses.

You can't honestly read comments from people with hundreds/thousands of posts, who are constantly slanted in one direction, that also just happen to move the goalposts any time the shit they spew isn't accurate, and believe that it's all innocent assumptions based on paper specs? No one is this naive.

Seriously, read the room. We've gone from "impossible" to "improbable" to "it technically works but will be worse" to "this game is first gen" to "wait 3 years", blah, blah, blah. It's never ending. We'll be at the end of the gen and these same people will find a way to spin this shit instead of maybe admitting they fell a little too hard for the marketing of their favorite toy.

And speak of the devil:


We literally do not know this. This is just an assumption with nothing to back it up. Literally not a fact.

We can easily deduce that information. It's happened with literally every Playstation console. Why would it stop now? Only an idiot would think a super fast SSD and good hardware I/O is "MARKETING". It's as stupid as thinking that the CELL processor, 8 GBs of RAM, or a built-in LAN port was "4 teh maRKetING".

Physics are physics. It is what it is.

Erm, surely they should prioritise whatever will result in the most console sales and overall revenue?

Which is ALWAYS creating something unique about your platform's software, networking, or hardware that maybe 3rd parties don't take full advantage of, but your 1st party teams will.

 

[Sir_Teraflop]

Lol no guys. The times of having rambus/edram/exotic CPUs and specialty chips like good old blitter and whatever to accerate certain GPU functions IS DEAD.

It's dead since the last generation launched.

It's all about PC nowdays and the only difference is the quality of a studio and it's funding along side it.

Since it's all about PC anyway the console with the wider/bigger CU count will almost always win, just like it happens ...on the PC

The rest is a story of old games not using the wider CU configuration and or quality of a studio making an exclusive game for that hardware.

End of Story.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Well, you are wrong. Throwing stones at glass houses and all.

PC has always been ahead of the curve on games. Not sure why you think you've right, as you've been proven wrong by many others, as well as myself.


Direct storage would be a thing regardless of Sony or whatever weird stuff you believe.



Again, everyone fails to realize the point you are trying to make, and have been failing to make this entire time?

 

[NickFire]

I'm not sure what you missed, but there were tons of posts about how the PS5 was clearly superior due to the SSD......dude it's all about the SSD!!!! MS is toast they said. You must have missed the party, no revisionist history.

It was like this: Xbox side - TFLOPS !!!!! RAW POWER!!! GAMEPASS!!!!! BACKWARD COMPAT!!! ................ Sony Side - SSD!!!!!! CERNY!!!!!! GENERATIONS!!!!!! GAMESSS!!!!!!!!

Even if what you say is true, you're really in here trying to dunk on people for claimed PS5 would be better because of CERNY?????? That's like spending the weekend at a mental hospital and laughing at people for being crazy bro.

 

[DForce]

So what the verge found out months ago was actually accurate...



Its all fluff.

There are technologies in there that obviously do provide benefits, but very often those benefits DO NOT correspond with what the marketing department is telling you, case in point.. this very story.

Let's go over it again.


Velocity Architecture
DirectStorage
Sampler Feedback Streaming
- Required for "next gen" games that take advantage of faster storage speed.

True 4K
- Not as advertised for the Xbox One X.
The Cloud
- Cloud computing wasn't as advertised.

Machine Learning
- Similar to DLSS. How it works under DirectX is unknown, but AI scaling has proven to have its benefits and not fluff.

And no, it's not this case in point "this very story".

 

[DeepEnigma]

PC has always been ahead of the curve on games. Not sure why you think you've right, as you've been proven wrong by many others, as well as myself.


Direct storage would be a thing regardless of Sony or whatever weird stuff you believe.



Again, everyone fails to realize the point you are trying to make, and have been failing to make this entire time?

 

[ABnormal]

A console that is being potentially bottlenecked by its ram bandwidth and tflops count because of its architect's fascination with having the biggest baddest SSD deserves some criticism.

But it's not. Comparisons continue to show that both consoles perform exactly the same.

Returning to topic, open worlds will be some of the games that will receive the most benefit from the new data management possibilities. No more detail limits due to streaming speed, so the limit will be only the total weight of a game, but no more of the streaming capability. So, "unlimited detail and/or very fast movement across the open world (with all the possible gaming implications). Or detailed fast-changing worlds with all-RAM detail level in a Silent Hill kind of game, or the ability to move from a world to another just by opening a door, going from detailed aerial gaming to ground level detailed gaming seamlessly, etc.
It's just a matter of vision. Now the architectures are there.

 

[DrAspirino]

As much as I hate Apple, I agree wholeheartedly. Apple did an amazing job on the m1. The same with the other people you mentioned. It's odd people give Cerny a pass, and hold him to high regards, when he didn't really do much, besides pick the parts from AMD, and make minor adjustments. It's not like he created RDNA himself. If anything Lisa Su is owed more credit for both Xbox and ps5, than cerny or the guys behind Xbox.

Indeed. Dr. Lisa Sue is owed far more credit for both consoles right now. AMD with their chiplet strategy has been quite innovative.

 

[mckmas8808]

The engineers behind the actual silicon are the real heroes, but there are a lot of people involved in these projects that deserve credit, including Cerny, even if he is just a manager that made sure the PS5 project was heading in the right direction.

Apple made an amazing investment when they acquired Palo Alto Semiconductor, that's the only reason they are where they are in terms of their silicon development, and obviously they have to rely on TSMC for production. Their CPUs are indeed stellar..

The team behind the current xbox machines seems to very capable as well, if I had to guess this is the best team of people they've had behind the project since the very beginning and it shows in the products, they are both very elegant designs, but you are right.. AMD takes huge credit here.

Thats the way PR works.

Companies choose one or a handful of people to be the face of the company. And for Sony hardware it's Mark Cerny. 1000 R&D guys in a lab can be doing all the hardcore work, but I dont think there is one gamer who knows anyone else other than Cerny for hardware. The image is he does all the work.

Same goes for Tesla. Most people probably think Elon Musk is the guy who drafted up all the design and engineering for cars. You never know. He might do jack shit for EV R&D. But his goal is to the face of the company as CEO and brand promoter. I bet most people don't know any other employee names at Tesla except for Musk.

Are people being dumb on purpose? You guys do realize that Mark Cerny isn't just a manager right? Cerny is literally an engineer. He's not just overseeing the creation of the PS4 and PS5. He's the HEAD designer of those consoles!!!

 

[THE DUCK]

Even if what you say is true, you're really in here trying to dunk on people for claimed PS5 would be better because of CERNY?????? That's like spending the weekend at a mental hospital and laughing at people for being crazy bro.

LOL, well not so much trying to dunk vs pointing out that they were a little premature in their conclusion. But I get your point.......

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Yet the PC arena are adopting a direct storage method just for these scenarios. Sony must've been on to something.

Holy shit, it's almost as of you and O On Demand have a combined IQ! Possibly diced by 2!


What did you mean by that, if you think my responses are unfitting?
You are giving credit to Sony, while implying PC guys must be thinking the same things as Sony? Just state what you meant, instead of beating around the bush. We all know what your meant, especially as a console warrior.

 

[mckmas8808]

Holy shit, it's almost as of you and O On Demand have a combined IQ! Possibly diced by 2!


What did you mean by that, if you think my responses are unfitting?
You are giving credit to Sony, while implying PC guys must be thinking the same things as Sony? Just state what you meant, instead of beating around the bush. We all know what your meant, especially as a console warrior.

Do you think it's even possible that engineers in the console space and working with the PC engineers to create the next "big thing" for video games? Because you are speaking as if they are working in two different Silos with no knowledge of each other.

 

[3liteDragon]

have you not looked into the rachet thread or the unveiling of rachet thread? Full of people saying only possible because of ps5 SSD

Few people said that but plenty of us knew that wasn't gonna be the case with a first-wave game.

unreal 5 demo can definatly be done in Xbox and probibly even better on of. Let’s not pretend it cant

I think it's possible on any device as that's what the engine was made for, and no, I don't see the SX rendering a higher number of triangles per frame (20M, not 16 billion like someone else was saying here, the source geometry for the entire demo is a 100 billion polygons people, and the PS5 was rendering about 20M every frame in real-time) than the PS5.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Do you think it's even possible that engineers in the console space and working with the PC engineers to create the next "big thing" for video games? Because you are speaking as if they are working in two different Silos with no knowledge of each other.

Possibly, console warriors think only Sony is implementing next gen tech. My previous post you quoted was deleted by the mods, so I'll let the console warriors fight this one though. Guess the mods prefer the console warriors on this site?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Holy shit, it's almost as of you and O On Demand have a combined IQ! Possibly diced by 2!


What did you mean by that, if you think my responses are unfitting?
You are giving credit to Sony, while implying PC guys must be thinking the same things as Sony? Just state what you meant, instead of beating around the bush. We all know what your meant, especially as a console warrior.

Dude, STFU, I swear.

You sound like a total hypocritical asshole incapable of parsing any reading comprehension and always leading with emotion.

Possibly, console warriors think only Sony is implementing next gen tech. My previous post you quoted was deleted by the mods, so I'll let the console warriors fight this one though. Guess the mods prefer the console warriors on this site?

You're a damned wArRiOr yourself.

 

[SlimySnake]

We can easily deduce that information. It's happened with literally every Playstation console. Why would it stop now? Only an idiot would think a super fast SSD and good hardware I/O is "MARKETING". It's as stupid as thinking that the CELL processor, 8 GBs of RAM, or a built-in LAN port was "4 teh maRKetING".

No one is saying the PS5's SSD isnt fast enough. Specs are specs just like how tflops are tflops. However, its far easier to fully utilize tlfops than it is to fully max out the SSD. And Sony's own first party has failed to do that so far and nothing on the horizon seems to be taking advantage of it.

Because its not simple. You have to design your game around the SSD and even then you dont even come close to maxing it out. If this 3.2 GBps ssd can run Ratchet without any slowdowns then i will bet a 2.4 GBps ssd can as well. It's clear that the I/O is doing most of the heavy lifting.

Notice how despite the 3.2 vs 5.5 vs 7.0 GBps difference in SSD speeds, the time spent in portals is pretty much the same. The loading that happens is still 2-3 seconds. It's constant. So the faster SSD speeds do not help reduce those load times. That means the bottleneck is somewhere else. Maybe in the I/O. Maybe in the RAM. So in effect, the extra speeds on the SSD were an overkill.

If Sony had revealed a bunch of games that looked like Ratchet at the reveal then yes, it would be easy to deduce that the SSD power was being utilized. But they didnt show anything of that sort. Even their cross gen games like Horizon and GoW are not utilizing the SSD to push higher fidelity textures and graphics as was speculated when Cerny did his Road to PS5 talk. So if first party studios wont push higher fidelity assets and use the SSD then why would third parties do it?

Like you said, it only makes sense that Sony would include a feature that their first party will take advantage of. Well, they arent doing that and are settling for simple resolution and fps boost. Does Horizon have flying now that you can stream in assets on the fly? is the flying going to be as fast as the spiderman demo? We both know the answer to those questions.

 

[DrAspirino]

Are people being dumb on purpose? You guys do realize that Mark Cerny isn't just a manager right? Cerny is literally an engineer. He's not just overseeing the creation of the PS4 and PS5. He's the HEAD designer of those consoles!!!

I do realize and still think that guy is lazy (at best) compared to other real system geniuses, like Dr. Lisa Su. If creating a balanced PC on a custom-made piece of plastic or wood makes you a system architect, then I'm a f*cking system architect too!! (and no, I'm actually a licensed Pharmacist with an MPH).

To truly be a systems architect, you have to know and do far more than build a custom pc on a plastic box; just like to be a pharmacist you need to know and do far more than "counting pills" or diluting alcohol from 90° to 70°.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Dude, STFU, I swear.

You sound like a total hypocritical asshole incapable of parsing any reading comprehension and always leading with emotion.


You're a damned wArRiOr yourself.

Emotion? You sound like the most softest person in existence right now. Get out your feelings, and argue with facts, rather than your soft tears. Don't try that whole "Naga please" bs with me. You must be softer than kleenex tissue.


You sound absolutely retarded right now, with absolutely nothing to refute my claims. Fucking console warrior. Lol



You'll get no further response from me unless you come correct.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Emotion? You sound like the most softest person in existence right now. Get out your feelings, and argue with facts, rather than your soft tears. Don't try that whole "Naga please" bs with me. You must be softer than kleenex tissue.


You sound absolutely retarded right now, with absolutely nothing to refute my claims. Fucking console warrior. Lol



You'll get no further response from me unless you come correct.

 

[Hunnybun]

Which is ALWAYS creating something unique about your platform's software, networking, or hardware that maybe 3rd parties don't take full advantage of, but your 1st party teams will.

Is it? It seems more likely to me that third party support is more important.

Definitely was for the PS1 and PS2, same for the 360. Less so for the PS4, but the reason that dominated had very little to do with unique hardware.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Cringe response. Of course you got nothing to add, as usual. Whenever you get cornered, you leave? Why is that? Why can't you argue simple points? Anyways, you are a wash on this site. A peon with nothing to add to the discussion.


I wonder if someone can test a SATA SSD somehow? It would possibly still work for r&c

 

[3liteDragon]

I wonder if someone can test a SATA SSD somehow? It would possibly still work for r&c

A SATA SSD, I'm like 90% sure that's not gonna work with the fidelity of the game running on the console. A decent PCIe 3.0 SSD should be able to run the game though, but I'm just guessing here.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Cringe response. Of course you got nothing to add, as usual. Whenever you get cornered, you leave? Why is that? Why can't you argue simple points? Anyways, you are a wash on this site. A peon with nothing to add to the discussion.


I wonder if someone can test a SATA SSD somehow? It would possibly still work for r&c

I've said what I said. Work on that comprehension, instead of emotional assumptions.

 

[Snake29]

have you not looked into the rachet thread or the unveiling of rachet thread? Full of people saying only possible because of ps5 SSD

unreal 5 demo can definatly be done in Xbox and probibly even better on of. Let’s not pretend it cant

Show me the exact replies then?

unreal 5 demo can definatly be done in Xbox and probibly even better on of. Let’s not pretend it cant

What will be done better on the XSX? I do not think the last scene will ever been done better on XSX if that part is heavenly using the streaming tech. You guys hope too much, want too much, because you're struggling that the PS5 ends up doing better than you expected. By saying that the XSX would do better anyway is a bit of a pathetic way to be able to call something out.

 

[SlimySnake]

But it's not. Comparisons continue to show that both consoles perform exactly the same.

What comparisons? XSX started off disastrously, yes but has since won nearly every comparison. I pointed out how the Hitman 3 ran at native 4k 60 fps on the XSX and only 1800p on the PS5 while the 9.6 tflops 5700xt averaged well over 60 fps at native 4k ultra settings on PC. There is clearly a bottleneck on the PS5 and tflops arent it.

In two days, Death Stranding is going to launch on the PS5 and they dont even have a native 4k 60 fps option. Only a native 4k 30 fps option and a 60 fps performance mode with reduced resolution. Why? The 5700xt can average 60 fps at max settings and should be able to run the PS4 version at its medium settings at native 4k 60 fps on the PS5.



So clearly, the 448 GBps ram bandwidth shows the PS5 is being bottlenecked despite having more tflops than the 5700xt. They shouldnt have cheaped out on the ram bandwidth especially when their SSD solution is clearly an overkill.

 

[DrAspirino]

Do you think it's even possible that engineers in the console space and working with the PC engineers to create the next "big thing" for video games? Because you are speaking as if they are working in two different Silos with no knowledge of each other.

Right now, most computer architects and PC engineers couldn't care less about videogames, and more about keeping up with Moore's law, all while reducing power consumption to a minimum.

And the true innovators are indeed studying implementing new or innovative architectures, or new materials to use to replace transistors altogether, since we're now hitting the barrier of what's physically possible without having too much electrons noise.

 

[Snake29]

What comparisons? XSX started off disastrously, yes but has since won nearly every comparison. I pointed out how the Hitman 3 ran at native 4k 60 fps on the XSX and only 1800p on the PS5 while the 9.6 tflops 5700xt averaged well over 60 fps at native 4k ultra settings on PC. There is clearly a bottleneck on the PS5 and tflops arent it.

In two days, Death Stranding is going to launch on the PS5 and they dont even have a native 4k 60 fps option. Only a native 4k 30 fps option and a 60 fps performance mode with reduced resolution. Why? The 5700xt can average 60 fps at max settings and should be able to run the PS4 version at its medium settings at native 4k 60 fps on the PS5.



So clearly, the 448 GBps ram bandwidth shows the PS5 is being bottlenecked despite having more tflops than the 5700xt. They shouldnt have cheaped out on the ram bandwidth especially when their SSD solution is clearly an overkill.

The PS5 won so far the most (and still win some of these comparisons) and the only game people keep bringing up to make a argument every time is Hitman 3. I said it before but i do not believe the PS5 hardware was the issue with Hitman 3, but they game engine. I said it in another thread, but if the devs would patch the game or revisit and optimize it a bit more, the game would be the same on both platforms. It is also the only game namely. I even believe that the next Hitman will suddenly be completely equal on both consoles. On the other hand. The PS5 version had the best performance with hardly any frame pacing issues. Something much more important than a resolution bump that barely added to the game.