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[StreetsofBeige]

What a dumb post.

I never said slower drives would magically become faster and run at 100GB second.

The point is you can’t assume the performance of PS5 SSD just by using a slower drive. Because that same slower drive is still taking advantage of the custom I/O. It isn’t completely independent of it. So a 3GB drive would still perform better in the PS5 than it would without the PS5 hardware.

That’s why all these slower drives test are useless and doesn’t prove anything about PS5 5.5GB SSD not being needed. For a test done properly a game designed around PS5’s SSD and I/O would have to be made for other platforms that don’t have PS5 SSD speeds and custom I/O. All these test are doing is showing that PS5 can use extended storage.

A lot of people in this thread jumping to conclusions claiming victory over a flawed pointless test. Wouldn’t expect anything else from the green discord cult though.


Ringling Brothers Circus clown show is that way

They arent useless tests.

The tests currently show R&C works on a 3.2 gb/s WD750.

If PS5's 5.5 gb/s SSD is so important for gaming, why does R&C work perfectly fine and Sony's SSD advice is "recommened 5.5 gb/s". It's not a mandated minimum.

As for waiting for a game that purposely uses PS5's SSD specs, where a PC SSD cant match it and the game only works if it runs off PS5's SSD, ok fine. Which game?

 

[Mr Moose]

What comparisons? XSX started off disastrously, yes but has since won nearly every comparison. I pointed out how the Hitman 3 ran at native 4k 60 fps on the XSX and only 1800p on the PS5 while the 9.6 tflops 5700xt averaged well over 60 fps at native 4k ultra settings on PC. There is clearly a bottleneck on the PS5 and tflops arent it.

In two days, Death Stranding is going to launch on the PS5 and they dont even have a native 4k 60 fps option. Only a native 4k 30 fps option and a 60 fps performance mode with reduced resolution. Why? The 5700xt can average 60 fps at max settings and should be able to run the PS4 version at its medium settings at native 4k 60 fps on the PS5.



So clearly, the 448 GBps ram bandwidth shows the PS5 is being bottlenecked despite having more tflops than the 5700xt. They shouldnt have cheaped out on the ram bandwidth especially when their SSD solution is clearly an overkill.

Ah yes, Hitman, that game that has a 60fps version on PS4 Pro and not the One X. The only game that matters when it comes to benchmarks between the consoles, let's forget about all the games that are the same between them or slightly better on the PS5, those don't count, even the ones that recently came out.

They arent useless tests.

The tests currently show R&C works on a 3.2 gb/s WD750.

If PS5's 5.5 gb/s SSD is so important for gaming, why does R&C work perfectly fine and Sony's SSD advice is "recommened 5.5 gb/s". It's not a mandated minimum.

As for waiting for a game that purposely uses PS5's SSD specs, where a PC SSD cant match it and the game only works if it runs off PS5's SSD, ok fine. Which game?

Let's forget what the devs themselves said and pretend they are maxing out the SSD.
Let's all buy slower SSDs and save £5, don't even think about future games, it'll work fine!

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Let's forget what the devs themselves said and pretend they are maxing out the SSD.
Let's all buy slower SSDs and save £5, don't even think about future games, it'll work fine!

Maybe. You never know. A year from now every dev might be hard working the SSD to 5.5, so every gamer running games off extended storage should had bought a 5.5 gb/s or higher PC SSD.

If thats the case, Sony should say external must be "5.5 gb/s or higher".

Why let gamers buy and attach slower SSDs if games in the future will be hitting 5.5?

 

[SlimySnake]

Ah yes, Hitman, that game that has a 60fps version on PS4 Pro and not the One X. The only game that matters when it comes to benchmarks between the consoles, let's forget about all the games that are the same between them or slightly better on the PS5, those don't count, even the ones that recently came out.

Hitman 3 is important because it shows the issue the console might have with its ram bandwidth. It's not the only one as shown by Death Stranding which is only native 4k 30 fps on the PS5.

But I have no idea why you seem to be under the impression that XSX and PS5 ports have been the same. Nearly every big game in recent months has shown the xsx lead in performance. Metro Exodus, Doom, Resident Evil Village all show higher resolutions on the XSX. Not as high as the Hitman 44% gap, but in line with the 18% performance advantage. Actually, Minimum resolution xsx were upto 30% higher than the ps5 in Doom.

 

[Mr Moose]

Maybe. You never know. A year from now every dev might be hard working the SSD to 5.5, so every gamer running games off extended storage should had bought a 5.5 gb/s or higher PC SSD.

If thats the case, Sony should say external must be "5.5 gb/s or higher".

Why let gamers buy and attach slower SSDs if games in the future will be hitting 5.5?

Sequential read speed

5500 MB/s or faster is recommended

You should carefully review drive specifications prior to purchase and contact the vendor or manufacturer if you need further information. SIE cannot guarantee that all M.2 SSD devices meeting the described specifications will work with your console, and assumes no responsibility for the selection, performance or use of third-party products.

Not all games are necessarily playable with exactly the same performance provided by the PS5 console's internal Ultra-High Speed SSD, even where the M.2 SSD device's sequential read speed is faster than 5500 MB/s.

 

[On Demand]

This reminds me of when I upgraded to gigabit internet. I had a modem that only could sustain 500 plus megabytes per second. Within not even 24 hours I've upgraded to a 2 GB router.


You have shown absolutely nothing two substantiate your original post which I replied to. You have done nothing besides proving that you are a clown. There is nothing in this post that refutes what I originally said. What is your point anyways? Especially if you aren't refuting anything that I've said? What a fucking


The game can run on much slower SSD's, change my FACTS.

LOL.

Oh man discord have you bots on crack.

Nothing in your post , or anybody else’s for that matter, proves that because of PS5 being able to use slower drives that means the 5.5GB SSD and I/O is wasted.

You have no proof other than a bunch of videos showing PS5 supporting extended storage and drives lower than the onboard speed that still connects to the I/O. These aren’t bench test with any real data and comparisons you clown. It’s a PS5 game using another high speed drive that still using PS5 hardware.

Now run back to discord green team with Alex Bugagga and suggest what other pointless console war videos DF should make.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sequential read speed

5500 MB/s or faster is recommended

Only recommended specs are pertinent to the PC arena. If Sony says so, they're lying... or their I/O is that damned good. Considering it bypasses the much slower controllers on third party SSDs. Or we will feign ignorance depending on which brand or platform, while at the same time writing up paragraphs of expertise.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sequential read speed

5500 MB/s or faster is recommended

Nowhere does it state a minimum speed requirement.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Only recommended specs are pertinent to the PC arena. If Sony says so, they're lying... or their I/O is that damned good. Considering it bypasses the much slower controllers on third party SSDs. Or we will feign ignorance depending on which brand or platform.

The I/O helping and devs not fully utilizing the full potential is exactly what it is.

 

[Mr Moose]

Hitman 3 is important because it shows the issue the console might have with its ram bandwidth. It's not the only one as shown by Death Stranding which is only native 4k 30 fps on the PS5.

But I have no idea why you seem to be under the impression that XSX and PS5 ports have been the same. Nearly every big game in recent months has shown the xsx lead in performance. Metro Exodus, Doom, Resident Evil Village all show higher resolutions on the XSX. Not as high as the Hitman 44% gap, but in line with the 18% performance advantage. Actually, Minimum resolution xsx were upto 30% higher than the ps5 in Doom.

Huh? Resident Evil Village is the same res, slightly better fps on Series X in RT mode.
Loads up to 400% faster on PS5.
It will depend on the engine and game, and how much time is spent on them.
Recent F1 2021 game, same res on both, slightly better on PS5.
Chivalry 2, slightly better on PS5.
CoD beta (I expect improvements on all though when released) slightly better on PS5.

Nowhere does it state a minimum speed requirement.

5500 MB/s or faster is recommended.
If you go below it, good luck in the future (prices on that drive tested are almost as much as the SN850).

 

[DeepEnigma]

The I/O helping and devs not fully utilizing the full potential is exactly what it is.

 

[Snake29]

They arent useless tests.

The tests currently show R&C works on a 3.2 gb/s WD750.

If PS5's 5.5 gb/s SSD is so important for gaming, why does R&C work perfectly fine and Sony's SSD advice is "recommened 5.5 gb/s". It's not a mandated minimum.

As for waiting for a game that purposely uses PS5's SSD specs, where a PC SSD cant match it and the game only works if it runs off PS5's SSD, ok fine. Which game?

He is not wrong. As he mentioned already, without the I/O complex, the SSD would behave very differently. The test would be more useful if they could test Rift Apart with a PS5 with internal and added storage vs PS5 with internal and added storage that operates seperatly from the I/O complex.

Since that is not possible, this test is not really useful. Both (both internal and added SSD), need their data to go through the I/O complex.

 

[Snake29]

Hitman 3 is important because it shows the issue the console might have with its ram bandwidth. It's not the only one as shown by Death Stranding which is only native 4k 30 fps on the PS5.

But I have no idea why you seem to be under the impression that XSX and PS5 ports have been the same. Nearly every big game in recent months has shown the xsx lead in performance. Metro Exodus, Doom, Resident Evil Village all show higher resolutions on the XSX. Not as high as the Hitman 44% gap, but in line with the 18% performance advantage. Actually, Minimum resolution xsx were upto 30% higher than the ps5 in Doom.

The only thing Hitman 3 is showing is a engine thing, not ram bandwidth or any "issues" what you guys hope it has.

 

[Md Ray]

Lmao, what do you type for this gif?

 

[DeepEnigma]

He is not wrong. As he mentioned already, without the I/O complex, the SSD would behave very differently. The test would be more useful if they could test Rift Apart with a PS5 with internal and added storage vs PS5 with internal and added storage that operates seperatly from the I/O complex.

Since that is not possible, this test is not really useful. Both (both internal and added SSD), need their data to go through the I/O complex.

Now that's just too logical. Back to the next video drawing board.

Lmao, what do you type for gifs like this to show up?

Hodge twins

 

[Snake29]

Now that's just too logical. Back to the next video drawing board.

Hodge twins

Well it's not possible, so they can't. It's like disabling the I/O complex for a vs comparison test. If that was possible, then this video would've made more sense.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

He is not wrong. As he mentioned already, without the I/O complex, the SSD would behave very differently. The test would be more useful if they could test Rift Apart with a PS5 with internal and added storage vs PS5 with internal and added storage that operates seperatly from the I/O complex.

Since that is not possible, this test is not really useful. Both (both internal and added SSD), need their data to go through the I/O complex.

So what your saying is the IO is boosting PC SSDs so even a 3.2 gb/s module works just as good as the 5.5 gb/s internal.

Thats great news. Then gamers definitely dont need a minimum 5.5 gb/s external.

 

[Riky]

Huh? Resident Evil Village is the same res, slightly better fps on Series X in RT mode.
Loads up to 400% faster on PS5.
It will depend on the engine and game, and how much time is spent on them.
Recent F1 2021 game, same res on both, slightly better on PS5.
Chivalry 2, slightly better on PS5.
CoD beta (I expect improvements on all though when released) slightly better on PS5.

Both F1 2021 and Chivalry 2 are within margin of error, I think it was like 0.02% on Chivalry 2, unless the runs are absolutely identical you can't draw a winner from those.
I've played Vanguard beta on both and the Series X version clearly runs at a higher average resolution in 120fps mode, it's quite obvious.

 

[Sir_Teraflop]

There is no problem with PS5/XSX hardware.

It's just like the past console hardware like past home computers PC does more bang for buck.

Consoles will be assimilated from PC.

History dictates so.

And so it will be.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Well it's not possible, so they can't. It's like disabling the I/O complex for a vs comparison test. If that was possible, then this video would've made more sense.

The unknown was known in the making. Makes for more arguments into the void...

 

[Sir_Teraflop]

Both F1 2021 and Chivalry 2 are within margin of error, I think it was like 0.02% on Chivalry 2, unless the runs are absolutely identical you can't draw a winner from those.
I've played Vanguard beta on both and the Series X version clearly runs at a higher average resolution in 120fps mode, it's quite obvious.

I wouldn't really engange in replies with people who do not understand hardware and/or the parity devs aim between XSX/PS5.

There is a wooping 44% shader discrepance and the rest is tales of history about parity, clause by sony or not.

Nobody dares to compare a 2060 against a 2080 etc...nomatter the clock speed.

Only fanboys.

 

[Snake29]

So what your saying is the IO is boosting PC SSDs so even a 3.2 gb/s module works just as good as the 5.5 gb/s internal.

Thats great news. Then gamers definitely dont need a minimum 5.5 gb/s external.

No, that means the developers are just scratching the surface. And with a game like Rift Apart...that's already impressive. And Insomniac has already said they have a lot of headroom in a DF interview with John. They never said they are using the full bandwidth because they are still learning how to develop for the PS5 and the tools will mature overtime. A game like Rift Apart was in development before they had a retail PS5. The PS5 was still in development, so it wasn't even possible. And why does a game have to use everything like PC games use your hardware 100% of the time?

Why is it so hard to understand that these consoles are not made for just a few months? If it's not important, then why bother buying a pcie4.0 SSD for your pc since you would never utilize the full 7GB/s at all. No dev will ever bother because it's not standard compared to the PS5 were every console has the same hardware. Never in all the console generation have I've seen this kind of brainless and stupid discussion over "why don't they utilize everything from the start", "The console makers lied because of bla bla bla bullshit talk bla bla gut feelings bla bla".

 

[Mr Moose]

Both F1 2021 and Chivalry 2 are within margin of error, I think it was like 0.02% on Chivalry 2, unless the runs are absolutely identical you can't draw a winner from those.
I've played Vanguard beta on both and the Series X version clearly runs at a higher average resolution in 120fps mode, it's quite obvious.

Yup, it's a draw with them overall, just showing that the Series X isn't always winning the face-offs recently.
Not sure about Vanguard, I am just going by the numbers I've seen (same highest and lowest res, slight fps advantage on PS5 which I would've thought meant the res is at its max and only drops res when it takes a fps hit?).
That game looks like shit anyway, fuck Sledgehammer

 

[ABnormal]

What comparisons? XSX started off disastrously, yes but has since won nearly every comparison. I pointed out how the Hitman 3 ran at native 4k 60 fps on the XSX and only 1800p on the PS5 while the 9.6 tflops 5700xt averaged well over 60 fps at native 4k ultra settings on PC. There is clearly a bottleneck on the PS5 and tflops arent it.

In two days, Death Stranding is going to launch on the PS5 and they dont even have a native 4k 60 fps option. Only a native 4k 30 fps option and a 60 fps performance mode with reduced resolution. Why? The 5700xt can average 60 fps at max settings and should be able to run the PS4 version at its medium settings at native 4k 60 fps on the PS5.



So clearly, the 448 GBps ram bandwidth shows the PS5 is being bottlenecked despite having more tflops than the 5700xt. They shouldnt have cheaped out on the ram bandwidth especially when their SSD solution is clearly an overkill.

Which comparisons? Hitman is clearly some misstep, and has been the exception since (it has also graphics that can hardly be considered "hardware pushing"). The other cases are mostly related to retrogaming, which is not showing differencies in power, but rather on the way the vendors managed retrocompatibility.
On next third party gen titles, differences are almost always very negligible, and even recently in some cases ps5 won by a very slight edge.
Actual performance differencies are very far from the theoretical 2 Tf difference (which anyway only takes in account the number of CUs, which is not the only variable, regarding actual Tfs performance).
The point is that if the differencies are only visible through some strumental performance analisys, then they are worthless. And in that case, every other feature capable of potentially constitute a structural and visual difference, is a better cost trade-off.

 

[Sir_Teraflop]

lol seriously would you compare 52 CU vs 36 Cu GFX cards in the PC space?

Why are you doing that here right now?

I guess you all prefer higher clocked 2060 vs 2080 because of clocks?

Lmao.*

*Unless you believe in SSD Rendering (TM).

 

[John Wick]

lol Whats this nonsense? You call yourself John Wick and let yourself get triggered by some valid criticisms of a fucking console. Get a grip. Thats what we do here on gaming forums. If you want a safe space where we do nothing but jerk off Cerny, Phil Spencer and Myamoto, try era.

A console that is being potentially bottlenecked by its ram bandwidth and tflops count because of its architect's fascination with having the biggest baddest SSD deserves some criticism. Bitching is the least we can do. When MS first announced the 52 CU GPU without infinity cache, many here speculated that increasing the CU count without increasing shader arrays might bottleneck the system. When they revealed their split ram architecture, people also speculated that it would cause issues throttling the entire bandwidth. Is that bitching? The entire forum went up in flames when Series S was confirmed, to have terrible specs. Should we never talk about the series s? Should we not have talked about the potential bottlenecks in the system because John Wick might get triggered? I mean I get that you overreact over people killing your dog, but over some criticisms of a console's architecture? Get a grip.

And I couldnt care less that Sony is making profits off of their console. How does that impact me? Sure Jim Ryan gets to afford a Yacht, but at the end of the day I get faster loading and 18%-44% fewer pixels because of fewer tflops and ram bandwidth.

Valid Criticism? Any discussion here devolves into a shit show. People crying and bitching about things they know little about.
Your complaining about the SSD yet where are the next-gen engines that will take advantage of the SSD and IO on PS5? You've literally took the first games released on the system as its final performance metric. Pointless debating with people who have already made their mind up that the PS5 was a cock up judging by your constant ranting. You have no patience. Clearly the performance metric bothers you that's why you keep on harping about 18% tf advantage of the SX. I'll let the games do the talking and leave the numbers alone. Its never bothered me that PS5 has a GPU disadvantage. The IO excites me to the possibilities of what it can do with moving and decompressing data at speed.
Same goes for Deathloop. It was shat on without even being given a fair chance. Kena got the same treatment. I can't wait when Cerny and the development community are vindicated with SSD and IO of the PS5.

 

[tommib]

I only see dead bodies in this war zone.

 

[Sir_Teraflop]

The PS5 won so far the most (and still win some of these comparisons) and the only game people keep bringing up to make a argument every time is Hitman 3. I said it before but i do not believe the PS5 hardware was the issue with Hitman 3, but they game engine. I said it in another thread, but if the devs would patch the game or revisit and optimize it a bit more, the game would be the same on both platforms. It is also the only game namely. I even believe that the next Hitman will suddenly be completely equal on both consoles. On the other hand. The PS5 version had the best performance with hardly any frame pacing issues. Something much more important than a resolution bump that barely added to the game.

Gtfo m8. PS5 would win shit if they where PCs and they are. There is no fucking way a 36 CU part would have parity and/or win a 52 CU part from the same gpu vendor.

Enjoy Parity while it lasts.

Now if you ask me if sony studios can do more and better i would say yes.

But that has nothing to do with hardware.

 

[ABnormal]

lol seriously would you compare 52 CU vs 36 Cu GFX cards in the PC space?

Why are you doing that here right now?

I guess you all prefer higher clocked 2060 vs 2080 because of clocks?

Lmao.*

*Unless you believe in SSD Rendering (TM).

There's no thing such ssd rendering, such concept doesn't even make sense. And nobody sane ever talked about such a thing, so, please do not try to use invented bullshit to make it appear to be some widespread belief. If you have concrete arguments you are welcome, but resorting on bullshit like that is typical of fanboys who don't have any mean to discussion.

Also, comparisons between the two aforementioned are constantly done and there's no performance difference that could even be called proportional. Infact, only ignorant people still believe that the number of CUs is the only parameter that defines Tf output. Frequency is another, and there are more. But it's always all simple in the mind of stupids.

"PS5 would win shit if they where PCs and they are. There is no fucking way a 36 CU part would have parity and/or win a 52 CU part from the same gpu vendor."

Such a number of wrong assumptions there: 1) Consoles just use pc components for the cpu and gpu, but all the custom parts, and above all, all the way to develop to the metal, are well different from the pc world (as Carmak explained, and surely he knows the matter better than you). Only lazy developers would just slap pc code on a console. But they would have always far inferior results compared to a dedicated work.

"Enjoy Parity while it lasts."

Well, it is lasting quite long. But surely the monster, in the future, will show its true mighty strenght. Tools are coming. Some are already here.

 

[DenchDeckard]

This is pretty good news for future pc ports and also good news for ps5 because its still loading games in like a second or two so everyone wins.

 

[John Wick]

lol seriously would you compare 52 CU vs 36 Cu GFX cards in the PC space?

Why are you doing that here right now?

I guess you all prefer higher clocked 2060 vs 2080 because of clocks?

Lmao.*

*Unless you believe in SSD Rendering (TM).

Consoles aren't the PC space though are they?
A game isn't just made up of raw theoretical GPU grunt though is it?
The whole system has to work in harmony and efficiently to get the maximum performance. That also includes the engine and code too.
No one sane here ever claimed the PS5 to have a more powerful GPU. So I don't get why your trying to stir shit along with the other clowns well known on here.

 

[ABnormal]

Edit: double

 

[phil_t98]

Show me the exact replies then?



What will be done better on the XSX? I do not think the last scene will ever been done better on XSX if that part is heavenly using the streaming tech. You guys hope too much, want too much, because you're struggling that the PS5 ends up doing better than you expected. By saying that the XSX would do better anyway is a bit of a pathetic way to be able to call something out.

typo. probably be better on PC

 

[BigLee74]

Crackdown 3 certainly streamed the destruction geometry….

Also mods just deleted my post because it’s offensive! Was it the word play on Drivertars with an extra D? Or hurting console fee fees somehow? No explanation, no idea.

And what’s a drivertar, then?

Is it like a drivatar, but spelt really badly?

 

[Snake29]

Gtfo m8. PS5 would win shit if they where PCs and they are. There is no fucking way a 36 CU part would have parity and/or win a 52 CU part from the same gpu vendor.

Enjoy Parity while it lasts.

Now if you ask me if sony studios can do more and better i would say yes.

But that has nothing to do with hardware.

if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if.

Reality check: the PS5 already won most of the comparisons, did win the last 3 also. Might even win CoD, so maybe...just maybe another one for you with BF2042? maybe not..who knows.

You come across as a pathetic little kid who can't take his loss. Or better, who can't handle the fact that the PS5 is performing way better then what you guys had hoped for.

typo. probably be better on PC

Without RTXI/O? i'm not so sure about the last part of the demo at this time. But for that they should release a side by side:

 

[twilo99]

Are people being dumb on purpose? You guys do realize that Mark Cerny isn't just a manager right? Cerny is literally an engineer. He's not just overseeing the creation of the PS4 and PS5. He's the HEAD designer of those consoles!!!

There are a lot of engineers that have moved into managing/supervisor roles, it doesn't take anything away from their contribution.. just take a look at Formula 1.

I have no idea what or what Cerny was doing during the development of the PS5, but whatever it was, it was probably instrumental.. that's why he is there.

 

[mckmas8808]

Possibly, console warriors think only Sony is implementing next gen tech. My previous post you quoted was deleted by the mods, so I'll let the console warriors fight this one though. Guess the mods prefer the console warriors on this site?

No reasonable person actually thinks Sony is the only video game company with next-gen tech.

No one is saying the PS5's SSD isnt fast enough. Specs are specs just like how tflops are tflops. However, its far easier to fully utilize tlfops than it is to fully max out the SSD. And Sony's own first party has failed to do that so far and nothing on the horizon seems to be taking advantage of it.

Because its not simple. You have to design your game around the SSD and even then you dont even come close to maxing it out. If this 3.2 GBps ssd can run Ratchet without any slowdowns then i will bet a 2.4 GBps ssd can as well. It's clear that the I/O is doing most of the heavy lifting.

Notice how despite the 3.2 vs 5.5 vs 7.0 GBps difference in SSD speeds, the time spent in portals is pretty much the same. The loading that happens is still 2-3 seconds. It's constant. So the faster SSD speeds do not help reduce those load times. That means the bottleneck is somewhere else. Maybe in the I/O. Maybe in the RAM. So in effect, the extra speeds on the SSD were an overkill.

If Sony had revealed a bunch of games that looked like Ratchet at the reveal then yes, it would be easy to deduce that the SSD power was being utilized. But they didnt show anything of that sort. Even their cross gen games like Horizon and GoW are not utilizing the SSD to push higher fidelity textures and graphics as was speculated when Cerny did his Road to PS5 talk. So if first party studios wont push higher fidelity assets and use the SSD then why would third parties do it?

Like you said, it only makes sense that Sony would include a feature that their first party will take advantage of. Well, they arent doing that and are settling for simple resolution and fps boost. Does Horizon have flying now that you can stream in assets on the fly? is the flying going to be as fast as the spiderman demo? We both know the answer to those questions.

I do realize and still think that guy is lazy (at best) compared to other real system geniuses, like Dr. Lisa Su. If creating a balanced PC on a custom-made piece of plastic or wood makes you a system architect, then I'm a f*cking system architect too!! (and no, I'm actually a licensed Pharmacist with an MPH).

To truly be a systems architect, you have to know and do far more than build a custom pc on a plastic box; just like to be a pharmacist you need to know and do far more than "counting pills" or diluting alcohol from 90° to 70°.

I don't think you know who Mark Cerny is then. Because the bolded is an insane thing to say. You keep crediting Lisa Su, but fail to realize that Cerny was working with your team to create new things "FOR" AMD, that they'll be using going forward. And he also did so during the PS4 building process too.

Is it? It seems more likely to me that third party support is more important.

Definitely was for the PS1 and PS2, same for the 360. Less so for the PS4, but the reason that dominated had very little to do with unique hardware.

I'm not saying 3rd party support isn't needed. I'm saying that if creating something so forward thinking that 3rd parties really won't use it, still doesn't mean it shouldn't be added to the console "IF" the 1st party devs will use it. There's no reason to remove something from a console just because 3rd parties don't care about it. That's the point about creating a console. Creating an experience that not everyone can achieve. Otherwise, why not just get a PC?

Right now, most computer architects and PC engineers couldn't care less about videogames, and more about keeping up with Moore's law, all while reducing power consumption to a minimum.

And the true innovators are indeed studying implementing new or innovative architectures, or new materials to use to replace transistors altogether, since we're now hitting the barrier of what's physically possible without having too much electrons noise.

Right. And that's exactly what Mark Cerny did. He likes to do the bolded, within certain constraints of course. I mean.....everything has a budget of course. So why are some trolls now not considering Mark Cerny a computer architect?

 

[mckmas8808]

There are a lot of engineers that have moved into managing/supervisor roles, it doesn't take anything away from their contribution.. just take a look at Formula 1.

I have no idea what or what Cerny was doing during the development of the PS5, but whatever it was, it was probably instrumental.. that's why he is there.

The answer to the bolded was, he was designing the PS5 from the ground up. I'm just not sure why some here want to down play this. It's odd to me.

 

[NEbeast]

Hitman 3 is important because it shows the issue the console might have with its ram bandwidth. It's not the only one as shown by Death Stranding which is only native 4k 30 fps on the PS5.

But I have no idea why you seem to be under the impression that XSX and PS5 ports have been the same. Nearly every big game in recent months has shown the xsx lead in performance. Metro Exodus, Doom, Resident Evil Village all show higher resolutions on the XSX. Not as high as the Hitman 44% gap, but in line with the 18% performance advantage. Actually, Minimum resolution xsx were upto 30% higher than the ps5 in Doom.

Buy a sx then, you have flip flopped so hard I've lost count. One day you're pro Sony, the next you're rage posting.

 

[Snake29]

No reasonable person actually thinks Sony is the only video game company with next-gen tech.





I don't think you know who Mark Cerny is then. Because the bolded is an insane thing to say. You keep crediting Lisa Su, but fail to realize that Cerny was working with your team to create new things "FOR" AMD, that they'll be using going forward. And he also did so during the PS4 building process too.



I'm not saying 3rd party support isn't needed. I'm saying that if creating something so forward thinking that 3rd parties really won't use it, still doesn't mean it shouldn't be added to the console "IF" the 1st party devs will use it. There's no reason to remove something from a console just because 3rd parties don't care about it. That's the point about creating a console. Creating an experience that not everyone can achieve. Otherwise, why not just get a PC?



Right. And that's exactly what Mark Cerny did. He likes to do the bolded, within certain constraints of course. I mean.....everything has a budget of course. So why are some trolls now not considering Mark Cerny a computer architect?

There is only one answer for that:

 

[Concern]

This thread is going so well lol. Pure entertainment.

 

[Hunnybun]

I'm not saying 3rd party support isn't needed. I'm saying that if creating something so forward thinking that 3rd parties really won't use it, still doesn't mean it shouldn't be added to the console "IF" the 1st party devs will use it. There's no reason to remove something from a console just because 3rd parties don't care about it. That's the point about creating a console. Creating an experience that not everyone can achieve. Otherwise, why not just get a PC?

Because an equivalent PC costs about 4x as much?

Consoles are there to capture the mass market, and that's really all there is to it.

Btw, I'm not sure why you even replied to me in the first place. I'm not against the focus on the SSD: I just said that the potential flaw in the strategy is pretty obvious. But I also said that we have to wait and see whether the pay off from exclusive games is worth it, because it might well be. Certainly, the power differential ceded to the Xbox is fairly insignificant in my view, so it's certainly possible that exclusive games will more than make up for it.

 

[Sir_Teraflop]

if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if.

Reality check: the PS5 already won most of the comparisons, did win the last 3 also. Might even win CoD, so maybe...just maybe another one for you with BF2042? maybe not..who knows.

You come across as a pathetic little kid who can't take his loss. Or better, who can't handle the fact that the PS5 is performing way better then what you guys had hoped for.



Without RTXI/O? i'm not so sure about the last part of the demo at this time. But for that they should release a side by side:

Did you watch the latest DF video about control about 52 CUs eating the 36 Rdna 1.1. alive?

Sorry...


Aside trolling, on a serious note. Shader count difference will show soon. It is 44%. That will show soon on specific games not burdened by parity with the lesser hardware.

 

[Sir_Teraflop]

if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if if.

Reality check: the PS5 already won most of the comparisons, did win the last 3 also. Might even win CoD, so maybe...just maybe another one for you with BF2042? maybe not..who knows.

You come across as a pathetic little kid who can't take his loss. Or better, who can't handle the fact that the PS5 is performing way better then what you guys had hoped for.



Without RTXI/O? i'm not so sure about the last part of the demo at this time. But for that they should release a side by side:

Lol -Just another victim!

 

[mckmas8808]

Because an equivalent PC costs about 4x as much?

Consoles are there to capture the mass market, and that's really all there is to it.

Btw, I'm not sure why you even replied to me in the first place. I'm not against the focus on the SSD: I just said that the potential flaw in the strategy is pretty obvious. But I also said that we have to wait and see whether the pay off from exclusive games is worth it, because it might well be. Certainly, the power differential ceded to the Xbox is fairly insignificant in my view, so it's certainly possible that exclusive games will more than make up for it.

I replied because I thought your post was interesting. And I haven't seen a PS console not take full advantage on the hardware from their 1st party teams. I'm surprised there are this many people that question it. The biggest issue right now (concerning the SSD) is that there aren't any game engines that can take half or full advantage of the fast SSDs and I\O in either the PS5 or XSX. UE5 will be the first one and it's not going to be ready until the end of this year.

 

[Snake29]

Lol -Just another victim!

Says they person with an alt account.

 

[Armorian]

Did you watch the latest DF video about control about 52 CUs eating the 36 Rdna 1.1. alive?

Sorry...


Aside trolling, on a serious note. Shader count difference will show soon. It is 44%. That will show soon on specific games not burdened by parity with the lesser hardware.

Too bad XSX will be always dragged down by Series S, especially in memory department. Shit... this console will haunt third parties for the entire gen, they barely have more memory for games than on PS4/X1... They can only play with texture size for true next gen versions, nothing gameplay related.

 

[John Wick]

As much as I hate Apple, I agree wholeheartedly. Apple did an amazing job on the m1. The same with the other people you mentioned. It's odd people give Cerny a pass, and hold him to high regards, when he didn't really do much, besides pick the parts from AMD, and make minor adjustments. It's not like he created RDNA himself. If anything Lisa Su is owed more credit for both Xbox and ps5, than cerny or the guys behind Xbox.

Do you think only Lisa Su worked on these chips? Mark Cerny was the lead architect on the PS5. I don't even understand why these people have been brought up for? A team of engineers work on these projects. Unless your qualified I wouldn't even bother calling out real engineers and programmers. Otherwise you wouldn't be wasting your time on here posting crap like Lisa Su and Cerny regurlaly do on this very site.....

 

[Leyasu]

before you hit the max you will be so fuckin GPU bound as always @VFXVeteran and me tried to told you guys
and in any case I understand that one can always invent novelties but what kind of use people expect is GREATER to change the whole scene in a second? exactly there isn't ...or rather there would be ... change the whole scene with let's say 1.5x more polygons ... but as I said the PS5 gpu would not hold up. Let's face it all the PS5 ssd is great but it is obvious that naming it so much has served to make up for other hw deficits

Nobody told me anything because I never believed that it was going do anything more than speed up loading times. All the bullshit after the UE5 reveal was painful to wade throug as well.

That being said, it is obvious that a the gen progress's, 1st party devs will squeeze more out of it than insomniac did with R&C

 

[twilo99]

The answer to the bolded was, he was designing the PS5 from the ground up. I'm just not sure why some here want to down play this. It's odd to me.

Do we actually have any idea what his role is within the development team? Obviously its a HUGE team of engineers, its not just him.

My guess is that he is a "lead designer/boss" of some sort, and also he probably has multiple roles/positions that he fills.