Support NeoGAF

[Tiago Rodrigues]

How is it getting a 50M headstart? Does Sony plan on changing the name of PS Plus to Spartacus, and claiming some sort of victory?

It's a headstart because Sony isn't starting this service from scratch. They will implement that service (Spartacus) for the users that are using all of their subscription services.

If you either have PSPlus or PSNow both will be joined together into one service with multiple tiers. And if the rumors of older gens being included + PS5 games also, that's basically Sony's entire catalog of games into one service. Not even going to mention how they might also include Crunchyroll (Eurogamer mentioned this), probably some Apple TV deal thrown in as well to be even more appealing.

I'd imagine they will also release extra content for PSPlus users for some of their multiplayer games or some discounts as well...

It's all smart business for them.

I do hope they somehow get PS3 games to be downloadable. Imagine if they stop having to rely on streaming PS3 games from old PS3 stacked together. It would be great for them...those units won't last forever.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

Might be similar revenue but no chance it's making similar profit.

Yeah Sony isn't spending nearly $80 billion for two publishers to add content on top of the group of AA studios that MS bought a couple of years ago and Playground. I wonder how much MS's payroll will have gone up once the Activision deal is finalized. Between that and Bethesda MS's headcount will have grown by more than 10% all for a division that has likely cost a lot more than it's brought in after these acquisitions.

 

[lh032]

The only thing Sony is losing now, is money.

Sony have to find a way to boaster their content, otherwise spartacus will stomped by gamepass.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Am I dreaming or are people here excited for subscription number growth and Spartacus?

I thought they were bad for the industry.

I think people will come to accept it and although many won't admit it, Microsoft was on the right path all along and pretty damn forward thinking.

Kinf of like, if Sony say it they will believe it. Not in a crazy negative way of they won't listen to anyone else but it sometimes takes that kins of nudge to open people's eyes to realise where the market is headed.

Consoles alone won't cut it anymore and Sony will be maximising pc output as swiftly as possible going forward.

 

[dotnotbot]

Yeah Sony isn't spending nearly $80 billion for two publishers to add content on top of the group of AA studios that MS bought a couple of years ago and Playground. I wonder how much MS's payroll will have gone up once the Activision deal is finalized. Between that and Bethesda MS's headcount will have grown by more than 10% all for a division that has likely cost a lot more than it's brought in after these acquisitions.

Even if you exclude buying publishers, there's a ton of thrid-party games on the service that they need to pay for.

 

[arvfab]

The only thing Sony is losing now, is money.

 

[Hendrick's]

With Game Pass a reality, how can any of you pay for this, or XBL Gold, in good conscience?

 

[SEGA_2012]

I am one of the 48 million proud subscribers !
Each subscriber is basically a CHAD

 

[AV]

With Game Pass a reality, how can any of you pay for this, or XBL Gold, in good conscience?

That's not really got anything to do with the fact that PS+ is mandatory for playing games online on Playstation. Can't really expect people to convince every friend they have to abandon the ecosystem entirely "because Game Pass".

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

Never trust those guys.
Consumers don't care about brand loyalty at all. They care about saving money.

And they don't get hard on if a game is exclusive to one console. I would love to open my box of choice and play all the possible games without having to have 3 consoles in my living room.

 

[kingfey]

Might be similar revenue but no chance it's making similar profit.

Profit wise, ps+ wins easily. Ps+ users spend alot of money on mtx.

 

[kingfey]

And they don't get hard on if a game is exclusive to one console. I would love to open my box of choice and play all the possible games without having to have 3 consoles in my living room.

I would like that option. But after going through gamepass library, I dont like that option anymore.

Each system offers unique experience. You won't get that through 1 box. It would be like netflix library.

 

[JackSparr0w]

That's not really got anything to do with the fact that PS+ is mandatory for playing games online on Playstation. Can't really expect people to convince every friend they have to abandon the ecosystem entirely "because Game Pass".

Why not? Most must have online games are now crossplatform.

 

[Ceadeus]

The PS+ game collection on PS5 must be popular meanwhile the new games release.

 

[JLB]

Sony must be salivating at the prospect of converting a generous percentage of those into a gamepass type of service.

This should be #1 for Sony.

 

[El Pistolero]

I'm not as sure. Sure, there will probably be a PS6 (mainly so that people still have an affordable way to get into the ecosystem), but maybe not a PS7.

You realize there is a whole world outside of NA, Europe and Japan? Zero chance for that to happen as "quickly" as you suggested...

 

[AV]

Why not? Most must have online games are now crossplatform.

Madden, FIFA, NBA are all missing cross-play. That's 3 of the best selling games ever year. We're not quite there yet.

 

[Ozriel]

It's a headstart because Sony isn't starting this service from scratch. They will implement that service (Spartacus) for the users that are using all of their subscription services.

If you either have PSPlus or PSNow both will be joined together into one service with multiple tiers. And if the rumors of older gens being included + PS5 games also, that's basically Sony's entire catalog of games into one service. Not even going to mention how they might also include Crunchyroll (Eurogamer mentioned this), probably some Apple TV deal thrown in as well to be even more appealing.

I'd imagine they will also release extra content for PSPlus users for some of their multiplayer games or some discounts as well...

It's all smart business for them.

I do hope they somehow get PS3 games to be downloadable. Imagine if they stop having to rely on streaming PS3 games from old PS3 stacked together. It would be great for them...those units won't last forever.

Pretty much zero difference between this and how MS handled Gamepass. Both are starting from zero with their higher priced tiers.

Xbox Live Gold is a subset of Gamepass Ultimate, and there are multiple, constant adverts to convert your Gold to the higher priced tiers. We don’t even know yet it Sony will allow conversions.

 

[dem]

Thats some pretty unimpressive growth yoy..

 

[Clear]

Any speculation as to who Sony are partnering with for the infrastructure? Sticking with AWS or changing it up?

Because in order to expand their service offering they need an equivalent expansion on the back end, and especially if they are pushing out into new markets they might be looking for new partnerships especially if Spartacus requires a lot more functionality in terms of cloud compute.

As I've said before, Sony are not in the datacentre business, so they need a partner with the reach and capacity required to achieve the desired result.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Er its been a while since my PS3 but isnt PSPlus Playstations version of Xbox Live?, why are you comparing it to Gamepass?.

It’s a subscription service, the service provided doesnt matter. Production costs are way lower as well.

Plus alot of people subscribe for those 3 games Sony offers a month, not the actual online service. Sony started this “gamepass”.

PS+ is bigger than Xbox Live + Gamepass combined.

these things couldn’t be anymore different too.

 

[Kerotan]

Psss. Gamepass 25m makes around the same money as ps+ numbers. From 8$ range to $15 range. Its between $2.4b to $4.5b.

How much does it cost to get all those games on there. Multiple times more.

 

[NickFire]

And all 48 million of us got shafted this month on the PS+ games.

 

[yurinka]

How are they gonna keep this massive revenue once they move away from being console focused? I guess the plan is to get PS+ (or whatever the GP-like successor is) on PC and maybe even Xbox? Right now they only make this money from people who buy a PlayStation, and that's clearly not their highest priority anymore.

-They will merge PS Plus with PS Now into a single tiered service
-The PS Plus only tier and the new base Gamepass tier-like (a.k.a. a worldwide available PS Now without cloud gaming tier) will be PS only. The third PS Now-like tier will be for PS, PC, smartphones, tablets and smart tvs
-Nothing for Xbox or Switch
-They will include a giant catalog with games from all their generations
-in addition to be available via home internet connection, will be also available via 5G
-They will open the cloud gaming to some countries more

Plus, they will continue expanding to mobile and PC, and will allow Bungie to be full multiplatform, but Sony will continue focused on PlayStation and on growing PS because its software revenue it's their biggest revenue source.

 

[yurinka]

Sony must be salivating at the prospect of converting a generous percentage of those into a gamepass type of service.

Psss. Gamepass 25m makes around the same money as ps+ numbers. From 8$ range to $15 range. Its between $2.4b to $4.5b.

Might be similar revenue but no chance it's making similar profit.

Sony made $3.7B with PS Plus and Now this calendar year:


Considering the huge amount of deals that GP had regarding first month for $1, Gold to GPU convertion for $1, free PC GP months bundled with tons of things etc their GP revenue should be somewhere around a third (if very lucky almost a half, comparing subs) of what Sony does with their game subs. And in terms of profitability, Sony isn't sacrificing day one sales of all their games and aren't paying many 3rd party games to be there day one.

Sony is making way more revenue and profit (well, unlike MS they are getting profit) with their game subscriptions (48M PS Plus subs + back in March, in a growing trend, 3M PS Now bubs).

If Spartacus is real and they will add a PS Now tier without cloud gaming (so download only games, a base Gamepass like tier without day one games) available worldwide the amount of subscribers, revenue and profit that Sony gets from game subs will grow faster than until now.

 

[Chukhopops]

It’s a subscription service, the service provided doesnt matter. Production costs are way lower as well.

Plus alot of people subscribe for those 3 games Sony offers a month, not the actual online service. Sony started this “gamepass”.

PS+ is bigger than Xbox Live + Gamepass combined.

these things couldn’t be anymore different too.

How do you know that:
- « a lot of » people subscribe to PS+ because of the games and not because it’s mandatory to play CoD or Fifa online?
- PS+ is bigger than XBL and GP combined when there’s no Gold MAU numbers?

You don’t.

 

[mejin]

Bring Now to every country that have Plus.....monopoly everywhere.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

How do you know that:
- « a lot of » people subscribe to PS+ because of the games and not because it’s mandatory to play CoD or Fifa online?
- PS+ is bigger than XBL and GP combined when there’s no Gold MAU numbers?

You don’t.

because Playstation’s services numbers destory Xbox’s.

because alot doesnt equal everyone.

 

[ANDS]

Alternate title: "48M Playstation players begrudgingly pay extra for their MP games. . ."

 

[Leyasu]

Sony made $3.7B with PS Plus and Now this calendar year:


Considering the huge amount of deals that GP had regarding first month for $1, Gold to GPU convertion for $1, free PC GP months bundled with tons of things etc their GP revenue should be somewhere around a third (if very lucky almost a half, comparing subs) of what Sony does with their game subs. And in terms of profitability, Sony isn't sacrificing day one sales of all their games and aren't paying many 3rd party games to be there day one.

Sony is making way more revenue and profit (well, unlike MS they are getting profit) with their game subscriptions (48M PS Plus subs + back in March, in a growing trend, 3M PS Now bubs).

If Spartacus is real and they will add a PS Now tier without cloud gaming (so download only games, a base Gamepass like tier without day one games) available worldwide the amount of subscribers, revenue and profit that Sony gets from game subs will grow faster than until now.

What is the split between PSnow and PS+?

 

[kyliethicc]

And all 48 million of us got shafted this month on the PS+ games.

I paid around $45 for a year of Plus. They're giving out 3 games per month. That's 36 games for $45.

When I'm paying around $1 per game... well, beggars can't be choosers. Not every month is gonna get us wet.

 

[yurinka]

How do you know that:
- « a lot of » people subscribe to PS+ because of the games and not because it’s mandatory to play CoD or Fifa online?

Each CoD and FIFA sold around 20-30M copies in all platforms, being generous around half of these copies (~10-15M) in PS and not all of them play online MP. PS Plus has 48M subs. There was also a survey where you could see the results, and the top reason to get PS Plus was to get or keep the monthly games.

- PS+ is bigger than XBL and GP combined when there’s no Gold MAU numbers?

PS+ has 48M, PSN has 111M MAU, back in March PS Now had 3M and has GP 25M according to Sony and MS. We also know that the installbase of PS4+5 is aprox. around 2X the amount of XBO+Series.

Having the 'migrate your remaining Gold months to GPU for $1' deal it's hard to believe there may be many remaining active Gold subs who didn't migrate to GPU, and maybe this is why MS doesn't share the Gold numbers or even mention it.

So we don't have the hard numbers to be 100% sure, but it's super, super likely.

 

[dano1]

How are they gonna keep this massive revenue once they move away from being console focused? I guess the plan is to get PS+ (or whatever the GP-like successor is) on PC and maybe even Xbox? Right now they only make this money from people who buy a PlayStation, and that's clearly not their highest priority anymore.

They will obviously be making more money. Diehard PlayStation players aren’t going to PC and now they have extra money from PC players. Win Win. PS5 is better than 95 percent of most PCs. And much cheaper

 

[reksveks]

What is the split between PSnow and PS+?

No one knows for sure for the same date period, they tend to update ps now numbers either annually or randomly within presentations.

 

[yurinka]

What is the split between PSnow and PS+?

PS+ (as of 31 Dec): 48M subs
PS Now (as of 31 March): 3M subs

We don't know how the revenue splits between the two. Regarding MS, we don't have the revenues from Gold and GP combined or separated so it's hard to compare them.

 

[kyliethicc]

What is the split between PSnow and PS+?

PS Now is basically nothing. Maybe 5 million tops. Hence why its going away and they don't mention those sub numbers much.

 

[Leyasu]

PS+ (as of 31 Dec): 48M subs
PS Now (as of 31 March): 3M subs

We don't know how the revenue splits between the two. Regarding MS, we don't have the revenues from Gold and GP combined or separated so it's hard to compare them.

I was talking about subscriber numbers. So we can safely assume that Sony would love to have more people transition over to a revamped and more expensive gamepass equivalent no?

There's no point in comparing them. Unless you want to have willy waving contest. But you can almost have your own guesstimates if you need to see who is earning the most.

Micrososft comfirmed 25m subs. I'll do some easy numbers... If that is an average of 10 per month per sub, then that is 250m per month. Multiply by 12 and you get 3bn a year. Then you have to chuck the gold subs on top who don't have gamepass. Their numbers I don't know and quite frankly don't give a fuck about.

I don't go in every thread and write bullet pointed walls of text about revenue/growth repeating the same boring shit time after time after time.....

 

[kyliethicc]

I was talking about subscriber numbers. So we can safely assume that Sony would love to have more people transition over to a revamped and more expensive gamepass equivalent no?

There's no point in comparing them. Unless you want to have willy waving contest. But you can almost have your own guesstimates if you need to see who is earning the most.

Micrososft comfirmed 25m subs. I'll do some easy numbers... If that is an average of 10 per month per sub, then that is 250m per month. Multiply by 12 and you get 3bn a year. Then you have to chuck the gold subs on top who don't have gamepass. Their numbers I don't know and quite frankly don't give a fuck about.

I don't go in every thread and write bullet pointed walls of text about revenue/growth or some other boring shit.....

The idea is they add Now into Plus and boom PS Plus is now their Xbox Live and their Xbox Game Pass all in one.

With nearly 50 million subs. That's basically what the Bloomberg article says "Spartacus" is going to do this spring.

 

[reksveks]

The comparison between Spartacus and GamePass numbers ultimate means nothing really if the Spartacus's ARPU is the same and growth stays as it. It really shouldn't but how high who knows.

I suspect that if Sony are looking at GP, it's not about total numbers, its about growth and that's why they are doing this reshuffle.

 

[BennyBlanco]

It’s a subscription service, the service provided doesnt matter. Production costs are way lower as well.

Plus alot of people subscribe for those 3 games Sony offers a month, not the actual online service. Sony started this “gamepass”.

PS+ is bigger than Xbox Live + Gamepass combined.

these things couldn’t be anymore different too.

PS+ used to just be the “free” games. Then they learned from MS that people would pay for the privilege of using their own internet to play online games, and followed their lead down that dark road.

Btw the games offered were way better when it was just the games on PS3 and Vita.

 

[Leyasu]

The idea is they add Now into Plus and boom PS Plus is now their Xbox Live and their Xbox Game Pass all in one.

With nearly 50 million subs. That's basically what the Bloomberg article says "Spartacus" is going to do this spring.

If they can do that complete with a nice price increase then that would be great for Sony for sure.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

With Game Pass a reality, how can any of you pay for this, or XBL Gold, in good conscience?

PS+ XBL for me.

F Gamepass and Spartacus!

 

[kyliethicc]

The comparison between Spartacus and GamePass numbers ultimate means nothing really if the Spartacus's ARPU is the same and growth stays as it. It really shouldn't but how high who knows.

I suspect that if Sony are looking at GP, it's not about total numbers, its about growth and that's why they are doing this reshuffle.

Once Sony merges Plus + Now, and can be like "our service has 50 mil" ... it will lead to Microsoft merging Live into Game Pass to boost their numbers up from 25 mil. Both companies will end up with 1 service each that basically do the same stuff.

Soon shall come the corporate PR subs measuring contest.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

What I don't see people mentioning is Crunchyroll/Funimation.

Funimation has 2.5 million subscribers, 120 million unpaid members
Crunchy roll has 5 million paid subscribers, 70 million unpaid members

Assuming for 1 second there is no overlap (generous obviously), that is 7.5 million subscribers.

These subs cost about 5-10 dollars a month.

It will be interesting to see if the rumors of these services being rolled into the top tier PS+ service end up being true. And how many "free" subscribers not included in those numbers would upgrade to a paid subscription if it aligns with their PS+

The ability for Sony to convert crunchyroll/funimation registrations into PS+ users will be absolutely huge. Very similar in ways to Apple One.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Am I dreaming or are people here excited for subscription number growth and Spartacus?

I thought they were bad for the industry.

Either your dreaming or uou can't read. Who's saying they are excited? It's just speculating on what Sony will do with this new service.

 

[fart town usa]

These acquisitions and other news concerning Sony/MS have melted some of the brains here on GAF.

If the constant Gamepass threads weren't bad enough, we're now warring over console-specific subscription services? lol.

This shit seriously feels like the PS3/360 console war all over again but with infinitely less humor. if you're gonna have ridiculous hot takes, at least try to generate some laughs with it.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Been a subscriber for years, Microsoft and Xbox forced SONY to have an online multiplayer paid service. Back to the 48 million new record high, I'm pretty sure that's a big number elevated by the launch of a new console.

 

[kingfey]

Sony made $3.7B with PS Plus and Now this calendar year:


Considering the huge amount of deals that GP had regarding first month for $1, Gold to GPU convertion for $1, free PC GP months bundled with tons of things etc their GP revenue should be somewhere around a third (if very lucky almost a half, comparing subs) of what Sony does with their game subs. And in terms of profitability, Sony isn't sacrificing day one sales of all their games and aren't paying many 3rd party games to be there day one.

Sony is making way more revenue and profit (well, unlike MS they are getting profit) with their game subscriptions (48M PS Plus subs + back in March, in a growing trend, 3M PS Now bubs).

If Spartacus is real and they will add a PS Now tier without cloud gaming (so download only games, a base Gamepass like tier without day one games) available worldwide the amount of subscribers, revenue and profit that Sony gets from game subs will grow faster than until now.

1$ is fanboys dream. MS is stupid to do 1$, if 1m are paying that money.
You also have to account the remaining months. 1$ lasts 3 month on ultimate, then it's 15$ for the rest of the month.
You dont get 25m users, when they only use 1$.

Even if we use your 1$ math, the average would be 8$. You multiply that by 25m and you get $200m. 1 year would be $2.4b. That is at 25m users only.

Gamepass would grow faster with starfield, and Activision games. By 2023, MS is looking at 35m-40m. By the $8 price average, it's $280m/$320m. Or $3.36b/$3.8b. The more the sub grows, the more it will make. This is your 1$ math. 1+10+15=26/3=$8.67 average price.

Just like ps+, MS is getting more profits with xbox live. Considering the games xbox live is getting, MS is making more banks from that Sub. Then add gamepass money, and you get more profits than Sony. Gamepass alone makes close to ps+. Adding xbox live will make it more revenue, and profit.

Spartacus won't get that boost. Gamepass is clear example. Gamepass ultimate is much better than Spartacus future plan, yet majority of xbox live users are not part of gamepass ultimate. No way Spartacus would get that boost easily. Those xbox live users don't even want day1 xbox games. What makes you think, ps+ users will go to a service like Spartacus?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sony made $3.7B with PS Plus and Now this calendar year:


Considering the huge amount of deals that GP had regarding first month for $1, Gold to GPU convertion for $1, free PC GP months bundled with tons of things etc their GP revenue should be somewhere around a third (if very lucky almost a half, comparing subs) of what Sony does with their game subs. And in terms of profitability, Sony isn't sacrificing day one sales of all their games and aren't paying many 3rd party games to be there day one.

Sony is making way more revenue and profit (well, unlike MS they are getting profit) with their game subscriptions (48M PS Plus subs + back in March, in a growing trend, 3M PS Now bubs).

If Spartacus is real and they will add a PS Now tier without cloud gaming (so download only games, a base Gamepass like tier without day one games) available worldwide the amount of subscribers, revenue and profit that Sony gets from game subs will grow faster than until now.

What this doesn't make clear is where the revenue is placed for royalties.

 

[N30RYU]

Sony, I want my 1$ Spartacus sub...