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[KyoZz]

If you want all of this at the same time, you play on PC. Period.
Now you believed the lies of Jimbo and Philly, that's on you honestly.

 

[Mister Wolf]

If you want all of this at the same time, you play on PC. Period.
Now you believed the lies of Jimbo and Philly, that's on you honestly.

Pretty much. You get what you pay for.

 

[BusierDonkey]

Every new console gen this shit happens.

I swear people's hype glasses fog up parts of the product pitch at the start of each gen.

Up to 4K, up to 120fps, raytracing in supported software!

The words "up to" and "in supported software" along with the paragraph of small print typically plastered on advertisements have been used for decades and people still can't seem to see them.

It's a $500 box, why did people think it would do what a $2500 box does? Magic?

 

[xPikYx]

I remember starting this Gen all we could hear was how Ray tracing, SSD, 4K and 120fps will change gaming forever. Now all i am hearing is GaaS, live service and meta verse. Publishers and Devs are now looking for more ways to make players give them more cash instead of truly making use of the features and tech that comes with them systems. its sad as now how things are going for this Gen i can see free 2 play GaaS games are going to be the main focus as Open World as in the 8 Gen and First Person Shooters were in the 7Gen.

So when are we going to see what this Gen true games start using all those tech and features.

They are stuck between cross generational (3d geometry, raytracing lightning, SSD) games and marketing bullshit (4k, 120fps)

 

[Hunnybun]

Every new console gen this shit happens.

I swear people's hype glasses fog up parts of the product pitch at the start of each gen.

Up to 4K, up to 120fps, raytracing in supported software!

The words "up to" and "in supported software" along with the paragraph of small print typically plastered on advertisements have been used for decades and people still can't seem to see them.

It's a $500 box, why did people think it would do what a $2500 box does? Magic?

It's a fair point, but on the other hand, they do seem to be able to do what a $2000 box does, and better than a $1500 box can manage.

It's not magic, it's just production at scale. And the willingness to lose money on the hardware, of course.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

There is no RTX3090 in the PS5?! Big surprise.

So for the sake of argument what were you expecting for €$399?

 

[ethomaz]

It's a fair point, but on the other hand, they do seem to be able to do what a $2000 box does, and better than a $1500 box can manage.

It's not magic, it's just production at scale.

Well mostly because the weird prices we are living in PC scheme.
At normalized prices it should be something like $700-800.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Cross gen.
/thread

 

[Hunnybun]

Well mostly because the weird prices we are living in PC scheme.
At normalized prices it should be something like $700-800.

Doesn't that squeeze on supply affect the consoles too?

 

[Shrap]

Man, the performance you get for the price of the PS5/Series X is insane. When both first came out Microsoft and Sony made nothing off of the hardware, and they still make next to nothing. What more can you expect? If they went for a higher price point they'd risk a PS3 launch situation.

I hate the term entitled most of the time but it's completely applicable here.

 

[ethomaz]

Doesn't that squeeze on supply affect the consoles too?

Yes but consoles keep the normalized price.
If you find stock you can buy consoles at MSPR $499/$399 in official retailers.
You can’t buy RTX cards at MSPR anymore.

For example RTX 3080 has a MSPR of $699.
But it is being sold at $1700 in official retailers.

 

[MiguelItUp]

They exist, but it's up to the developers to utilize them. From what I've seen, some games show them off better or do more with it. But not every game, unfortunately.

 

[Andodalf]

4k is pretty common.

Plenty of games have 120 fps

RT is rarely good cus the consoles are weak

Quick Resume is possible because of the SSD and it's the best next gen feature by a mile.

 

[Clear]

I dunno how you could think demon's souls remake loading as quickly as it does isn't a revolution..

Going back to playing Dark Souls 3 after Demon's Souls on PS5 is such a comedown... its shocking.
Its a very good example of generational advancement, especially for sound design which is on a whole other level.

 

[Hunnybun]

Yes but consoles keep the normalized price.
If you find stock you can buy consoles at MSPR $499.
You can’t buy RTX cards at MSPR anymore.

But it's still just a function of the cost of silicon that MS and Sony are subject to, and as far as I know (might be wrong) they're not immune from the shortage.

In any case, it doesn't really matter. You can get extreme value from consoles because of a combination of scale of production and the closed platforms meaning that the manufacturers don't need to make a margin on hardware.

The point is that they DO spectacularly outperform PCs of equivalent price, not exactly HOW.

 

[Kacho]

I mean all that stuff is there with compromises. Consoles are a great value but you get what you pay for. Best build a PC if you want all that stuff with less compromises.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

It's called a sales pitch. Read between the lines to get a better sense of what you might actually get cause they never said you'd get all those at once or even get one of those features at their best.

 

[Hunnybun]

I mean all that stuff is there with compromises. Consoles are a great value but you get what you pay for. Best build a PC if you want all that stuff with less compromises.

Yeah but I'd argue that you don't get what you pay for. To get a really substantial improvement over a console, I'd probably have to get a 3090. I'd have to pay about 6x what my digital PS5 cost me, but I wouldn't get anything remotely like 6x the performance. I don't think it's even 3x, is it?

That's why I just laugh when people say 'if you want 60fps just get a PC!'. It's a bit unhelpful, especially when we still have no idea when PS games become available on the platform. But that's fine, because I can just play the latest Assassin's Creed at REALLY high settings and 200fps. Great.

 

[Allandor]

Doesn't that squeeze on supply affect the consoles too?

Not really, as console makers make contracts for years. Normally, e.g. Sony would have increased production at this point, but as there are no resources they can "buy" there won't be any additional consoles. It seems more like the opposite is the case as Sony will provide less consoles this year than last year. It seems more like they just moved a bit of this year resources forward to the last year in the hope that they can get additional contracts for parts this year. But as the chip-crisis still prevails it doesn't change much instead we just get less consoles this year.
So no, the supply problems don't affect existing contracts, but they just can't increase production as they would want. So PS5 will sell worse than PS4 in the same timeframe, just because they can't increase production because of this
Statistics for the current generation won't look good in comparison to the last generation, but just because they just can't satisfy demand.
Problem with that is, they can't really focus on the current generation until market penetration is high enough so they have so many customers that a high cost AAA title can be profitable (normally only a friction of your potential customers buy a game).

 

[Hunnybun]

Not really, as console makers make contracts for years. Normally, e.g. Sony would have increased production at this point, but as there are no resources they can "buy" there won't be any additional consoles. It seems more like the opposite is the case as Sony will provide less consoles this year than last year. It seems more like they just moved a bit of this year resources forward to the last year in the hope that they can get additional contracts for parts this year. But as the chip-crisis still prevails it doesn't change much instead we just get less consoles this year.
So no, the supply problems don't affect existing contracts, but they just can't increase production as they would want. So PS5 will sell worse than PS4 in the same timeframe, just because they can't increase production because of this
Statistics for the current generation won't look good in comparison to the last generation, but just because they just can't satisfy demand.
Problem with that is, they can't really focus on the current generation until market penetration is high enough so they have so many customers that a high cost AAA title can be profitable (normally only a friction of your potential customers buy a game).

It still indirectly affects their margins though, cos less production means fewer sales, means fewer games sold on their closed platform, means less revenue with which to subsidise the cost of hardware. They're all taking a hit, one way or another.

 

[lastmessiah]

Yeah but I'd argue that you don't get what you pay for. To get a really substantial improvement over a console, I'd probably have to get a 3090. I'd have to pay about 6x what my digital PS5 cost me, but I wouldn't get anything remotely like 6x the performance. I don't think it's even 3x, is it?

That's why I just laugh when people say 'if you want 60fps just get a PC!'. It's a bit unhelpful, especially when we still have no idea when PS games become available on the platform. But that's fine, because I can just play the latest Assassin's Creed at REALLY high settings and 200fps. Great.

A 3090? Even a 3060 would match or exceed the consoles.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Maybe this new realization will tame you guys in the next "Console hardware speculation" thread that will definitely be created for all of you dreamers for the PS6/XsX2. Stop thinking Sony/MS can put $2k GPU tech into a $500 box and I think we will all keep our expectations in check when these games come out.

 

[G-Bus]

Generation hasn't even started yet. Everything is still mostly crossgen and the dedicated stuff we do have is early and somewhat unimpressive. I still think we're going to see a big jump in the next few years.

Not to say we'll see any games with all the buzzwords. 4K, 120fps, ray tracing.

 

[Kerotan]

I just played guardians of the galaxy with awesome Ray tracing.

Now I'm playing uncharted 4 at 120fps. Next doom at 120fps.

I'm playing warzone at 120fps, played siege recently at 120fps. Dirt 5 also. My games are loading in seconds. The promise was real.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Quick Resume is possible because of the SSD and it's the best next gen feature by a mile.

This ^

The faster load times in general is what makes the next gen console worth buying right now if you already play a lot of games.

 

[Hunnybun]

A 3090? Even a 3060 would match or exceed the consoles.

I said substantial. Maybe I should've been clearer - I mean at least 2x the performance, but probably more. A difference undeniably worth having, something like the PS4 Pro over the PS4.

 

[StateofMajora]

Resolution doesn't always equal image quality. Assets I would argue are even more important. Rendering > Resolution.

That’s not what image quality means! Image quality means image sharpness, jaggies, temporal stability etc.

Assets would be described as “detail.”

So yes, ratchet 2016 has better image quality vs. a rift apart’s rt performance mode.

 

[93xfan]

I've seen all of those in games this gen.

Maybe OP has an SDTV with that he plays in a sunlit room with heavy glare?

I do hope we get Minecraft Path Tracing at some point though

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

I really don't think the PS5, XsX and PC are strong enough now to output 4k@120fps with ray tracing on. It'll take a while before we get there for AAA games.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I just played guardians of the galaxy with awesome Ray tracing.

Now I'm playing uncharted 4 at 120fps. Next doom at 120fps.

I'm playing warzone at 120fps, played siege recently at 120fps. Dirt 5 also. My games are loading in seconds. The promise was real.

Destiny 2 is gorgeous on XSX and PS5 and also offers a 120 fps crucible mode.

 

[Kacho]

I said substantial. Maybe I should've been clearer - I mean at least 2x the performance, but probably more. A difference undeniably worth having, something like the PS4 Pro over the PS4.

A 3090 is still overkill and your statement is ridiculous. A 3060Ti outperforms these consoles and the GPU is only part of the equation. I see a substantial difference in performance and image quality between my PC and Series X and I'm rocking a 2070.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Youll get 1440p60 or 4k30 and youll like it

 

[Kerotan]

Destiny 2 is gorgeous on XSX and PS5 and also offers a 120 fps crucible mode.

Yep playing that also atm just haven't been on crucible. Ratchet also with the 40fps / 120fps mode.

 

[soulbait]

Pretty much all my XsX games are running in 4K. Of course if I want a higher FPS, then I may have to have less resolution, but that was pretty much a given.

RayTracing is still young. Never thought we would see all games using it.

 

[Hunnybun]

A 3090 is still overkill and your statement is ridiculous. A 3060Ti outperforms these consoles and the GPU is only part of the equation. I see a substantial difference in performance and image quality between my PC and Series X and I'm rocking a 2070.

I meant genuinely significant improvement. Like 2x performance at the very least.

To spend 4 or 5 times what a console costs, anyone normal would want a really appreciable improvement. I mean 2x would still look like really bad value to most people.

 

[Kacho]

I meant genuinely significant improvement. Like 2x performance at the very least.

How are you quantifying 2x performance here? With PC you get better RT, DLSS support, greater performance and higher settings. On consoles you get better framerates at the cost of settings and a lower res, or higher res and settings at the cost of framerate.

No one is arguing that consoles aren't a great value because they are. But you get what you pay for.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Most titles have some sort of ray tracing in them

We got some SSD showcases like Returnal and Ratchet and Clank

I believe we haven't really seen any "true" next gen games yet. This generation seems to be taking longer to drop last gen support.

Ratchet and Clank is the closest we have to a real next gen game, but I still think it would be possible to run it on last gen machines with loading screens. The rift portal mechanic doesn't seem like it needs an SSD to be possible.

 

[nemiroff]

Only on a narrow class of high end PCs which, lets be real, still can easily struggle to do "it all" at this time. Don't have too much faith in 2.0 software, I suspect you'll rarely see something much more than RT reflections and shadows on consoles. I think Unreal is the only hope for something in the same somewhat ballpark.

 

[Bramble]

Well I am playing games with ray tracing and 2-3 second load times and some at 120fps. Not bad for a cross gen transition.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

I don't blame non technical gamers, kinda sucks. You gotta get more savvy if you don't want to be constantly let down like this, just make friends with a nerd and ask them if you can't be bothered learning yourself.

I had a customer the other week and he wouldn't buy a TV without 4K120 support and I kept asking him what he plays and he just said single-player mostly.

I told him as time goes on there will be less and less 4K120 modes and you certainly won't see them in AAA SP games, so maybe buy the TV with other factors at the forefront instead. He was literally going to get an Sony X85J just to get 4K120 support because he didn't want to pay more than 900, when he should've been getting an LG B1 at 999 if he didn't want to go to C1/A80J price.

I said to him I don't think it's a bad idea to future proof and even if there aren't many 4K120 modes then there will be other benefits for SP games like 4K60@444 HDR output and potential 40hz modes but I don't think it's something you'll notice at all.

The guy couldn't tell the difference between 30 and 60, so absolutely no hope for seeing the 30/40 or 60/120 motion clarity benefit imo.

Usually I can say look I'm a nerd here's what's worth worrying about and they go with it. Sometimes the customer tells me specific PC stuff they want to do and I say well you actually really will benefit so definitely get a 4K120 set, but this 1/1000 customer described above falls into a niche I like to call:

"Enthusi-tard"

It's best to just leave them to it because nothing I say will change their mind and they have things all twisted so it's like arguing with a child who doesn't grasp the basic concept of something.

There are reasons to want a 4K/120Hz screen....

1. Future proofing
2. Games like Ratchet and Clank that have 40fps mode (only possible on 120Hz screens) at full native 4K (only possible on 4K/120Hz screens). Not only does the game look the same as standard 4K/30 fidelity mode, but it also plays more smoothly and has much lower input lag (thanks to 120Hz) of like 8ms or something.

So yeah, there are reasons to want a display that's capable of handling a lot more than your typical 30/60fps games.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

You'll get 1080p60 or 1800p30 and you'll like it

Fixed it for you

 

[StreetsofBeige]

They were promoted, but nobody said all of those things at once in a game.

It's like 360 and PS3 being promoted as 1080p machines, and how many games actually ran at 1080p?

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

It's called a sales pitch. Read between the lines to get a better sense of what you might actually get cause they never said you'd get all those at once or even get one of those features at their best.

Remember Watch Dogs at E3 vs the game that shipped? That was another over-promise, under-deliver game

 

[Hunnybun]

How are you quantifying 2x performance here? With PC you get better RT, DLSS support, greater performance and higher settings. On consoles you get better framerates at the cost of settings and a lower res, or higher res and settings at the cost of framerate.

No one is arguing that consoles aren't a great value because they are. But you get what you pay for.

Roughly speaking double the resolution, or double the frame rate. In practical terms, being able to play fidelity modes at 60fps, as a minimum.

DLSS is pretty much the only major win I see in the PC space. If it were ubiquitous across games, then I'd agree that a 3060 or something would be a much more attractive proposition. Otherwise all the improvements come at a really high marginal cost.

I know I'm being pedantic here, but acknowledging that consoles are particularly good value and saying that you get what you pay for are contradictory positions. With a PC you get significantly LESS than you pay for.

 

[PeteBull]

You can get a next gen rig with a rtx 3060 ti/12gb for around $1500 if you buy pre-build tho. Shouldn't be more than 2000 total if you include monitor M&K, headphones, etc.

Its still expensive, just not 4-5k expensive. But sure, if you go for a rtx 3080 ti and building a pc from the ground up, you might end up having to fork out that much.

Contex of his post was to build topend rig, not something thats just bit better than ps5/xsx, and current streetprice of mentioned by u 3060ti is north of 1k usd alone
He wanted true next gen experience, for that if he goes with 3080ti he gets much better rt capabilities and bit over 2x rasterisation power, for 120fps stable ofc he needs strong cpu too, to feed it all need good psu, 850w goldrated, ofc big case with lots of fans, aio cooling for cpu, it all costs a lot, topend rig is nothing like budget gaming.

 

[WitchHunter]

I remember starting this Gen all we could hear was how Ray tracing, SSD, 4K and 120fps will change gaming forever. Now all i am hearing is GaaS, live service and meta verse. Publishers and Devs are now looking for more ways to make players give them more cash instead of truly making use of the features and tech that comes with them systems. its sad as now how things are going for this Gen i can see free 2 play GaaS games are going to be the main focus as Open World as in the 8 Gen and First Person Shooters were in the 7Gen.

So when are we going to see what this Gen true games start using all those tech and features.

You had a dream... but Morpheus smacked you big time and all that is left for you is Tasty Wheat.

 

[balls of snow]

Aye aye. My advice is to just quit gaming altogether. Take up a new hobby etc etc.

 

[PeteBull]

I know I'm being pedantic here, but acknowledging that consoles are particularly good value and saying that you get what you pay for are contradictory positions. With a PC you get significantly LESS than you pay for.

Currently due to crypto boom all gpus cost roughly 2x its msrp, so yup, its extremly bad value or in other words price/perf ratio, consoles are king there, especially ps5 and xsx, xss not so much coz of 3x weaker gpu and very small ssd.

 

[Edgelord79]

tell me how they revolutionize the games that cant be done on the previous gen.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Those features are present in many games today, just not at the same time. If you want 4K, you must sacrifice ray-tracing. If you want 60fps, you must sacrifice 4K and so on. Maybe the next consoles can do all of these things at once.