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[Sosokrates]

This happened while I was just driving around and crashed. For a while, I didnt even realize that traffic had begun to pile up. I never see stuff like this in current gen games. Most of them basically have traffic stop displaying two blocks down the road.

The whole AI system is simulated. it's not faked and scripted like RDR2 AI. Here is what Epic had to say:

Thats certainly a long traffic jam, I wonder how they would prevent the framerate from tanking when you fire many rockets at them.

 

[Haggard]

Nah, i believe my eyes. I have played the Matrix demo on my 10 tflops ps5. A full living breathing city with better AI simulations and destruction physics than any game last gen. No one can convince me its not possible.

The city is set in stone in every sense of the word.... If that is "living and breathing" for you then the age old gta5 is a full fledged life simulation.

So far ue5 is only good for static setpieces with Nanite and Lumen is still a massive resource hog if not tuned to the t and coupled exclusively with nanite meshes..

Epic have shown an absolute best case scenario for their technologie which still struggled to keep 30fps on the current gen machines.
And that seems to be enough for you to basically make their marketing your gospel....
That's just very..... very naive.

 

[SlimySnake]

Thats certainly a long traffic jam, I wonder how they would prevent the framerate from tanking when you fire many rockets at them.

The demo supports full chaos destruction physics. The framerate does drop but it’s due to the engine not currently supporting nanite and collision physics so they are using a hybrid system.

Regardless, this demo has 50k car, 35k driveable with no faked traffic routines that only come into play when you get close to them like they do in gtav. The actual simulation handles everything from collisions to traffic jams and other AI routines.


You can fly up in the air look down and still see all the traffic and crowd waking about. Its incredibly Impressive.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

"All games"
uh huh...... aren`t we forgetting a teeny tiny thing here? Budget!
~1% of games have cutting edge graphics and that is exactly the fraction that may maybe be able to reach the level of something like the matrix demo by the end of the gen...

VIP, I can literally guarantee you that won't happen. Whatever is going on in your mind and the real world is essentially operating with v-sync toggled off right now.

There's more to CGI than just posting a cherry picked screenshot on this forum, there are massive amounts of frames/screenshots dedicated to simulating motion. To be fair those CGI trailers are not even impressive man, but it's a huge gap compared to those tech demos. Just look at the Enemies demo, the animation is ass; There's hardly anything moving in the frames and when things do move like her dress it don't even look like soft cloth it looks like newspaper with obvious object clipping at 1:19 in the video, at least the Horizon trailer masked the object clipping with so many things moving in the frames.

Ignoring those CGI trailers, we probably won't even get that Enemies tech demo quality no time soon. Shit, I'm still waiting on visual quality from tech demos that were published over 10 years ago on GTX 680, GTX 580 hardware by videogame developers!

Its like you guys literally ignore the matrix awakens and yes I meant “alot of” not all…AAAA titles will be otherworldly…Also I have a background in tech and animation…I’m in sync with reality. Welcome to MY thread..

 

[Negotiator101]

Thats certainly a long traffic jam, I wonder how they would prevent the framerate from tanking when you fire many rockets at them.

Not well I'd imagine, also what about the peds AI? what do they do in this demo? For comparison in RDR2 the NPC's go about their day working etc The Matrix demo is doing nothing like that and as a simulation it's very basic.

 

[GymWolf]

This happened while I was just driving around and crashed. For a while, I didnt even realize that traffic had begun to pile up. I never see stuff like this in current gen games. Most of them basically have traffic stop displaying two blocks down the road.

The whole AI system is simulated. it's not faked and scripted like RDR2 AI. Here is what Epic had to say:

No offense, but i give 2 fucks about traffic ia dude...it literally sound like a waste of resource like the fucking dynamic clouds in certain games that you only notice in photo mode.

Who gives a damn if the traffic simulation continue when i'm not even there anymore.

Yeah i take rdr2 fake simulation that has a big number of variables and you can play with it compared to this useless thing.

 

[Sosokrates]

Not well I'd imagine, also what about the peds AI? what do they do in this demo? For comparison in RDR2 the NPC's go about their day working etc The Matrix demo is doing nothing like that and as a simulation it's very basic.

They dont do much just walk about, cant remember how many are on screen though, could be like the cars where there is better distance detail.

 

[SlimySnake]

No offense, but i give 2 fucks about traffic ia dude...it literally sound like a waste of resource like the fucking dynamic clouds in certain games that you only notice in photo mode.

Who gives a damn if the traffic simulation continue when i'm not even there anymore.

Yeah i take rdr2 fake simulation that has a big number of variables and you can play with it compared to this useless thing.

It's an example you asked for. The whole point of simulations is to get away from RDR2's scripted simulations that take 5-8 years to hand code. I mean RDR2 is amazing because it was made by 3,000 devs working on nothing but RDR2 for 5 years after shipping GTAV. Sure, it's great to be able to interact with every NPC and have them be voiced or have all kinds of different so-called dynamic encounters in the open world, but they are not really dynamic if they are scripted. RDR2 still doesnt feel like an open world sandbox you can play around in. They look to be doing the same thing with GTA6 which is probably why its going to take 7 years after RDR2 to finish one damn game. Id rather they create systems instead of scripting everything that clearly takes years upon years of work.

Like I said, I wasnt even trying to create a traffic jam here, it just happened because of the simulation system they created where it can track literally tens of thousands of cars and NPCs without having to script anything. Im sure its being governed by some kind of scripting behind the scenes that says stop if the car in front of you is stopped, but the fact that it is able to extend that logic for miles would simply not be possible last gen thanks to shitty jaguar CPUs.

Lastly, persistence is the key to immersion. It's why we still bitch about enemy dead bodies disappearing after they die. If Im playing spiderman and Ive been in a fight leveling buildings and causes all kinds of chaos in a neighborhood, I dont want to come back to it and see everything reset and back to normal.

 

[SlimySnake]

Its like you guys literally ignore the matrix awakens and yes I meant “alot of” not all…AAAA titles will be otherworldly…Also I have a background in tech and animation…I’m in sync with reality. Welcome to MY thread..

It's absolutely bizarre to see Matrix get dismissed as a CG tech demo when it's playable, set in an open world, running actual simulations in the background. Sims so heavy, even fancy PC GPUs cant get above 45 fps. Part of it is its unoptimized nature, but isnt it refreshing to finally see something completely bring your PC to its knees? Other open world games like Spiderman and RDR2 on PC literally run at like 200 fps only coming down when ray tracing is enabled. This demo hits the CPUs harder than anything before it. It's a real thing. Not some cutscene running on 3x 580s like the Smaritan demo. You can play around with it.

I've spent over 30 hours playing the PS5 version alone crashing into cars and no other game has better crash physics. You can play the opening setpiece and it will never play out the same. My favorite thing to do was making two cars crash at once and see if they can crash into other cars and have them crash. It worked because despite the onrails section being scripted, the crashes are not scripted thanks to chaos physics.

Like I have no idea what Epic can do to convince people that it is realtime, playable, and easily doable seeing as how 50-70 devs did this in a very short amount of time WHILE UE5 was still in development. They said they can do it even faster today.

Even the Unity demos are realtime cutscenes. People wont dismiss Naughty Dog's fancy cutscenes, but dismiss other people showing whats possible in cutscenes. Why? it's a cutscene. Of course its not running gaming logic just like how realtime cutscenes in Death stranding, TLOU, uncharted and well every other last gen game dont have to run ingame logic or the entire world which lets them push visual fidelity in cutscenes. It's why these games look so much better in cutscenes which fancy lighting, way higher quality character models and depth of field effects. So why are they not dismissed as tech demos?

The funny thing is that everyone is going to start losing their minds when Sony studios or their favorite developer starts to show off games that look just like these tech demos. You will see comments like wizards, naughty gods, we dont deserve you, while completely forgetting they spent the last 2-3 years downplaying these graphics as fake CG.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[GymWolf]

It's an example you asked for. The whole point of simulations is to get away from RDR2's scripted simulations that take 5-8 years to hand code. I mean RDR2 is amazing because it was made by 3,000 devs working on nothing but RDR2 for 5 years after shipping GTAV. Sure, it's great to be able to interact with every NPC and have them be voiced or have all kinds of different so-called dynamic encounters in the open world, but they are not really dynamic if they are scripted. RDR2 still doesnt feel like an open world sandbox you can play around in. They look to be doing the same thing with GTA6 which is probably why its going to take 7 years after RDR2 to finish one damn game. Id rather they create systems instead of scripting everything that clearly takes years upon years of work.

Like I said, I wasnt even trying to create a traffic jam here, it just happened because of the simulation system they created where it can track literally tens of thousands of cars and NPCs without having to script anything. Im sure its being governed by some kind of scripting behind the scenes that says stop if the car in front of you is stopped, but the fact that it is able to extend that logic for miles would simply not be possible last gen thanks to shitty jaguar CPUs.

Lastly, persistence is the key to immersion. It's why we still bitch about enemy dead bodies disappearing after they die. If Im playing spiderman and Ive been in a fight leveling buildings and causes all kinds of chaos in a neighborhood, I dont want to come back to it and see everything reset and back to normal.

Yeah ok but traffic ia is not exactly my first thought when someone says what you said...and i was not the only one who quoted you on that.


Traffic ia is the last of my worry when we are so behind with even elementary ia interactions, it is the equivalent of a better flashlight effect if you catch my drift.


Rdr2 and days gone have bodies persistency and the games would lose absolute nothing without it, it's ok to not have bodies that disappear after 5 sec but i don't need to waste memory when i completely leave the scene, it's literally a waste of resources and we don't have super powerfull cpus in these console, far from that.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah ok but traffic ia is not exactly my first thought when someone says what you said...and i was not the only one who quoted you on that.


Traffic ia is the last of my worry when we are so behind with even elementary ia interactions, it is the equivalent of a better flashlight effect if you catch my drift.


Rdr2 and days gone have bodies persistency and the games would lose absolute nothing without it, it's ok to not have bodies that disappear after 5 sec but i don't need to waste memory when i completely leave the scene, it's literally a waste of resources and we don't have super powerfull cpus in these console, far from that.

What is your expectations from next gen AI* in open worlds going forward? I personally want to a more Infamous style system where civilians remember your actions mixed in with GTA's wanted system and RDR2's dynamic encounters. And I dont want all that at the expense of having every game take 7 years to make.

Matrix has something crazy like 50k parked cars, 35k driveable cars, and 25k civilians in their world. I want to see just what I could do with those systems.

 

[GymWolf]

What is your expectations from next gen AI* in open worlds going forward? I personally want to a more Infamous style system where civilians remember your actions mixed in with GTA's wanted system and RDR2's dynamic encounters. And I dont want all that at the expense of having every game take 7 years to make.

Matrix has something crazy like 50k parked cars, 35k driveable cars, and 25k civilians in their world. I want to see just what I could do with those systems.

I don't know, skyes are the limit and i'm not a videogame dev.

But sure as hell traffic ia is the last thing i'm worried about.

You are too fixated with big numbers when like i said we lack the most basic interactions in the moment to moment gameplay before even looking at how many cars are on screen, little steps dude.

You don't even know if what matrix does could be possible in a real game where the ia has to think at many things and not only how to drive a damn car.

 

[ChiefDada]

The demo supports full chaos destruction physics. The framerate does drop but it’s due to the engine not currently supporting nanite and collision physics so they are using a hybrid system.

Regardless, this demo has 50k car, 35k driveable with no faked traffic routines that only come into play when you get close to them like they do in gtav. The actual simulation handles everything from collisions to traffic jams and other AI routines.


You can fly up in the air look down and still see all the traffic and crowd waking about. Its incredibly Impressive.

All show and no substance, which is entirely permissible for a tech demo. But you constantly compare it to actual games and use it as the basis to support why you think "Jimbo", "Cuckman" (childish btw), and dev studios are offering "half assed games" because of greed or laziness. It's nonsense.

Traffic ia is the last of my worry when we are so behind with even elementary ia interactions, it is the equivalent of a better flashlight effect if you catch my drift.

 

[GymWolf]

All show and no substance, which is entirely permissible for a tech demo. But you constantly compare it to actual games and use it as the basis to support why you think "Jimbo", "Cuckman" (childish btw), and dev studios are offering "half assed games" because of greed or laziness. It's nonsense.

I love you too.

 

[Toots]

I will quote my post again.


Im not playing knack. I am playing nothing.

Well, finally decided to give th cod campaign a try but you can see how amazing it looks above. I wish i was playing nothing.


My son wants me to buy knack 2 which is only $8 but why the fuck is it not on PS+ Premium? It's a first party game. It's shovelware. You are essentially giving it away for price a kids meal, and its not on your premium service? WTF are they doing? TLOU isnt on the trial either. So they were supposedly forcing devs to release all games as trials but wont even release their own game on their own premium service worth $120 a year. Nothing Jimbo does makes sense to me.

Im not buyng it on principle. 1. It's trash. 2. I got it for free thanks to the NZ store debacle at launch, but cant remember my NZ account username and password. 3. it should be on PS+ premium.

It’s only 8 bucks so your son can have a good time…
You raise him as you want but I really think you should not bring him in your (totally justified) personal vendetta against Jim Ryan and his anti consumer choices…

 

[SlimySnake]

True, it's really impressive work. It might not necessarily be defined as next-gen technology though?

I believe they did the traffic and pedestrians through the Niagara VFX/particle system, which was introduced in UE 4.2X in 2018 (to replace Cascade) and works to some capacity on all platforms UE4/5 supports. This is how flocks of fish and birds are managed, you can also do armies of soldiers in this way by tracking masses of independent objects as "particle" behavior, and then you can of course do effects and things which are less tangible and more what one would expect from a "particle system".



The ability to manage that many cars and people without having to drop them into low-fi models or sprites or even fading them out on the horizon, that's pretty amazing, and that's Nanite (at least, for the cars) doing the impossible rendering of all of these cars all on screen all at full detail all the way into the distance of the highways. Then just the sheer amount of cars and people is I would assume beyond what an old console could handle on a good day? It's a great flex of these new consoles and high-end PC hardware. It's more volume and lack of fidelity compromise than shall we say "next-gen magic" making this possible, though.

As I've said about other topics on this thread, I believe the missing wow-factor of next-gen consoles isn't necessarily because these new consoles have been held back from accomplishing something never possible before because they're anchored down by barnacle hardware. (There's some of that, but that factor is IMO overblown, as much as I hate to say it. I was bullish on cross-gen-never before the gen started, but the more I come to understand scaling approaches, the more I get how even cellphones can play apps previously only possible on ultra-high-end systems not too long ago.) Rather it is more to do with new features/technologies coming late into maturity (Niagara came out of beta and certified production-ready in May of 2020; UE5's Lumen and Nanite were still classified as experimental and early-access until 2021; Chaos Physics is still considered to be in beta; and that's just UE5 features, there's a lot else out there swirling around in experimentation but only solidified in usage in professionally-produced games here and there) and this wretched plague (and unexpected complications of development... and bad management) pushing back everything that was on the leading edge of technology. 2023 should be to be the second wave of "real next-gen" if you will that 2022 or even 2021 should have been, and some of it is even going to come in cross-gen flavors as well as in next-gen exclusives.



Small correction: you apparently would still have different LODs in a Nanite environment, they're just included as steps in on the detail scaling approach. Reflections also isn't solved just by going to UE5, in a Lumen environment would still put upon you the same choices (with the same positive/negative aspects) of SSRO or raytracing or whatnot to make reflections. And then, baking in lighting... phew, that seems to be a toughie with graphic technicians as far as how much Lumen can or can't handle the demands of an entire scene, but basically it's a tool and it;s a great tool but it's not the one ultimate tool which makes all other tools obsolete.

...I'd really like somebody smarter than me to come between us and say what it's like actually working with these technologies (I am not a game designer) but I think at the very least it's fair to say that the promise of UE5 solving all of the problems of game development is a little bit of salesmanship.

You dont need UE5 to do niagara particle systems or better NPC simulations just like how you dont need lumens in order to have realtime GI. Something Epic introduced back in 2013 and then took out because console GPUs werent powerful enough.

The reason why you are seeing it now is because the consoles finally have powerful enough CPUs. You can look at PC benchmarks and see just how CPU bottlenecked that Matrix demo is. You can turn off the NPCs, traffic and parked cars and see framerate go from low 20s to a locked 30 fps on consoles. Those things are possible today because of the CPU upgrade. You simply cannot do that on last gen machines even if UE4 supports the niagra particle system.

Going from GTAV to RDR2, the crowd density actually decreased. Go walk around in St. Denis and you will see far fewer NPCs on the streets than there in GTA4 and GTAv. Other games like Miles, Infamous and Watch Dogs arent doing anything more fancy with their NPCs than what Rocskstar did in the PS360 era. Of course, the upgrade in the number of NPCs, vehicle density and collisions is due to next gen technology.

 

[SlimySnake]

Found this in the Matrix DF video. They rooftop scene is apparently realtime and uses the original Neo model from the movie. Touched up as well. We've literally hit photorealism.

Clipped:

✂️ Neo

15 seconds · Clipped by TheNegativeDude · Original video "The Matrix Awakens Tech Analysis + PS5 vs Xbox Series S/X Performance Analysis" by Digital Foundry

youtube.com

All show and no substance, which is entirely permissible for a tech demo. But you constantly compare it to actual games and use it as the basis to support why you think "Jimbo", "Cuckman" (childish btw), and dev studios are offering "half assed games" because of greed or laziness. It's nonsense.

I have never called Druckmann cuckman. I actually just did a search on all my posts to be sure. In fact, I found three instances where I chastised a guy for calling him cuckman.

Wont apologize for calling greedy execs greedy, but I love how you will go to bat for them. Keep up the good work.

 

[rofif]

Found this in the Matrix DF video. They rooftop scene is apparently realtime and uses the original Neo model from the movie. Touched up as well. We've literally hit photorealism.

Clipped:

✂️ Neo

15 seconds · Clipped by TheNegativeDude · Original video "The Matrix Awakens Tech Analysis + PS5 vs Xbox Series S/X Performance Analysis" by Digital Foundry

youtube.com

I have never called Druckmann cuckman. I actually just did a search on all my posts to be sure. In fact, I found three instances where I chastised a guy for calling him cuckman.

Wont apologize for calling greedy execs greedy, but I love how you will go to bat for them. Keep up the good work.

For me, the most realistic part is him just sleeping on his desk. Madness

 

[ChiefDada]

Found this in the Matrix DF video. They rooftop scene is apparently realtime and uses the original Neo model from the movie. Touched up as well. We've literally hit photorealism.

Clipped:

http://[URL]https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxkwHT7eSe9Jg-GxEqUAg02QV8dJTJBwZi

[/URL]


I have never called Druckmann cuckman. I actually just did a search on all my posts to be sure. In fact, I found three instances where I chastised a guy for calling him cuckman.

Wont apologize for calling greedy execs greedy, but I love how you will go to bat for them. Keep up the good work.

Then I sincerely apologize.

 

[Neilg]

With UE5, devs will no longer have to create different LODs for every single object in the game. Create reflections for every single reflective surface in the game. Baking in lights is a thing of the past which is going to save artists a ton of time since they can now dynamically adjust light sources inside the editor. There will always be work for them to do, but a lot of the roadblocks have been removed with UE5 and any engine using dynamic GI or ray tracing.

All of that work is the work they were outsourcing to sweatshops in India though. you don't put a lead artist on 150k/yr dropping light probes in when he's got lead characters to work on in his to-do list.

What it does is remove all the friction to get assets into a roughly playable version. I guarantee they're going to spend just as long, potentially even longer making them - but now this level of production friction will allow them to more efficiently say 'was that the right move? lets try and improve this'. it's going to get prototyping off the ground much quicker. It's going to prevent a lot of frustration, and make for a more creative work environment.

Good lighting artists dont need to see the final baked result to know if it's good either - i've been working as a 3d artist for 15 years and I spend most of the day working blind because i'm familiar with what all the numbers are going to do. You spend a day doing work and let it cook while moving on to work on something else. People will still continue to light like that because it's better to take little breaks to see things with fresh eyes.

You're absolutely right that it'll help AA studios more than the big ones. The big ones will always custom scan their own assets and textures - they'll do everything from scratch and need 300 artists working for 2 years to churn through it all. A AA developer with 15 people can build environments that now look just as good, if they dont mind sharing textures, assets and objects with other studios. That is pretty exciting!

 

[alloush]

Since we keep bringing GTA into the Matrix Awakens demo, thought of posting this here, a very cool video:

 

[SlimySnake]

Tekken showing everyone how it's done! These are 60 fps graphics too!

Tekken 8 breaks into a new generation

Director Katsuhiro Harada dives deep into the game’s first trailer, showcasing footage rendered in real-time and captured from the game running on PS5.

blog.playstation.com

This trailer was actually taken directly from a certain part in the current work-in-progress Tekken 8’s story mode, played on PlayStation 5. In other words, all the character models, backgrounds, and effects are the same ones that are used in-game. Although this was captured from the story mode, it is not a pre-rendered movie made for the trailer but rather real-time rendered footage, running at 60 frames per second, similar to how you would experience the game in versus battle modes. (Of course, some of the effects, dialogue as well as the camera angle is currently being updated and may change when the game launches)

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Yeah ok but traffic ia is not exactly my first thought when someone says what you said...and i was not the only one who quoted you on that.


Traffic ia is the last of my worry when we are so behind with even elementary ia interactions, it is the equivalent of a better flashlight effect if you catch my drift.


Rdr2 and days gone have bodies persistency and the games would lose absolute nothing without it, it's ok to not have bodies that disappear after 5 sec but i don't need to waste memory when i completely leave the scene, it's literally a waste of resources and we don't have super powerfull cpus in these console, far from that.

Its called immersion. Sure its a waste of memory, but if it doesn’t hurt the fidelity of the game, why not? If it fits the genre or vision..

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

For me, the most realistic part is him just sleeping on his desk. Madness

That part actually tricked me… I thought it was the actual movie lmao…

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I see some people in here want to see the same games we have right now filled with the same dumb AI, bland lifeless world and all that jazz with just a glossier coat of paint.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Tekken showing everyone how it's done! These are 60 fps graphics too!

http://[URL][URL]https://blog.playstation.com/2022/09/13/tekken-8-breaks-into-a-new-generation/

[/URL][/URL]

Its an arcade fighting game. Not exactly graphically taxing when you're rendering budget goes into only those 2 characters on screen. You can literally go to town with detail so this doesn't impress me at all. It was expected. Have this kind of detail or similar in a 3rd person shooter or semi open world game then I'll be impressed.

 

[Falc67]

Tekken showing everyone how it's done! These are 60 fps graphics too!

http://[URL]https://blog.playstation.com/2022/09/13/tekken-8-breaks-into-a-new-generation/

[/URL]

Someone said this isn’t next gen

 

[SlimySnake]

Its called immersion. Sure its a waste of memory, but if it doesn’t hurt the fidelity of the game, why not? If it fits the genre or vision..

Yep. Why not is actually a great answer here because otherwise why are you creating an open world with cars and pedestrians and not have proper systems governing them. It's actually why GTA felt so revolutionary back in 2001. NPCs would finally react to you murdering them. You find a hooker? You can kill it. You commit a crime, they will send police after you then the FBI then the army. Nothing has changed since. It's all so predictable now.

So why not have a traffic accident create a traffic jam? Everyone went nuts watching that watch dogs car crash that we never actually got. It was amazing to see such realism from cars crashing into each other to NPCs dying in cars and struggling to come out. We need to move to a more systems based sandbox and having AI govern entire simulations is the only way to go about doing that. Otherwise, they will be limited to scripted setpieces.

 

[ChiefDada]

Tekken showing everyone how it's done! These are 60 fps graphics too!

http://[URL]https://blog.playstation.com/2022/09/13/tekken-8-breaks-into-a-new-generation/

[/URL]

The fact that virtually everyone I saw reacting to the trailer automatically assumed it was CG despite caption clearly stating it being rendered in real-time on PS5 confirms that consoles have reached CG quality. But yeah this looks great and what I expect from current gen fighting games.

 

[Sosokrates]

Does anyone know or have an idea what graphical advancements we would have if the seriesS was not a thing?

 

[ChiefDada]

Does anyone know or have an idea what graphical advancements we would have if the seriesS was not a thing?

Not sure what you mean. I don't think there's any feature of the series x that's absent in series s so in general no.

 

[Sosokrates]

Not sure what you mean. I don't think there's any feature of the series x that's absent in series s so in general no.

I mean does anyone think the SeriesS being the base will cause less graphics then if it was just XSX and PS5?

The reason why I am asking is because I'm curious to what it would be, I remember a remedy Dev saying that they have to cater for the seriesS, so my question is how would games be different if they didn't have to cater to the seriesS. I wonder if he is correct here because I was thinking maybe it could mean we will get slightly inferior fluid simulations, but then I thought they would not have interior fluid simulations because instead they would just need to create a fluid simulation which is more scalable. Is there anything that could not be scalable these days?

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Not sure what you mean. I don't think there's any feature of the series x that's absent in series s so in general no.

Oh yes there is…tons of devs talked about how it holds games back…

 

[PeteBull]

Does anyone know or have an idea what graphical advancements we would have if the seriesS was not a thing?

Even matrix demo can be run on it, ofc its scaled down a lot, especially in terms of resolution(4tf gpu vs 12tf like in series x), so as long as games/projects are build for series X/ ps5 and scaled down- series S wont affect anything, if game is made for series S in the first place, then only expanded upon, then it will be noticable, but so far best looking xbox game, aka forza horizon 5 doesnt suffer from even being on xbox one/one x so u shouldnt worry too much, ofc, u got very talented devs behind it, that matters a lot too.

Same way on ps5 u got new horizon and ragnarok, that still have to run on og ps4, but again- if they are scaled down and ps4 isnt lead platform, everything turns out great(here i think only gt7 doesnt look super impressive on ps5 vs ps4, ofc things got added/expanded but ps5 doesnt look miles better unfortunately.

The difference between being lead platform and not can be seen nicely if u check TLOU ps4 remaster vs part 2 running on ps4(or pro), both running and looking great but u can tell right away og tlou was ps3 game, u can later even compare it to part1 on ps5 which is probably one of best looking games atm.

 

[Negotiator101]

It's absolutely bizarre to see Matrix get dismissed as a CG tech demo when it's playable, set in an open world, running actual simulations in the background. Sims so heavy, even fancy PC GPUs cant get above 45 fps. Part of it is its unoptimized nature, but isnt it refreshing to finally see something completely bring your PC to its knees? Other open world games like Spiderman and RDR2 on PC literally run at like 200 fps only coming down when ray tracing is enabled. This demo hits the CPUs harder than anything before it. It's a real thing. Not some cutscene running on 3x 580s like the Smaritan demo. You can play around with it.

I've spent over 30 hours playing the PS5 version alone crashing into cars and no other game has better crash physics. You can play the opening setpiece and it will never play out the same. My favorite thing to do was making two cars crash at once and see if they can crash into other cars and have them crash. It worked because despite the onrails section being scripted, the crashes are not scripted thanks to chaos physics.

Like I have no idea what Epic can do to convince people that it is realtime, playable, and easily doable seeing as how 50-70 devs did this in a very short amount of time WHILE UE5 was still in development. They said they can do it even faster today.

Even the Unity demos are realtime cutscenes. People wont dismiss Naughty Dog's fancy cutscenes, but dismiss other people showing whats possible in cutscenes. Why? it's a cutscene. Of course its not running gaming logic just like how realtime cutscenes in Death stranding, TLOU, uncharted and well every other last gen game dont have to run ingame logic or the entire world which lets them push visual fidelity in cutscenes. It's why these games look so much better in cutscenes which fancy lighting, way higher quality character models and depth of field effects. So why are they not dismissed as tech demos?

The funny thing is that everyone is going to start losing their minds when Sony studios or their favorite developer starts to show off games that look just like these tech demos. You will see comments like wizards, naughty gods, we dont deserve you, while completely forgetting they spent the last 2-3 years downplaying these graphics as fake CG.

Absolute nonsense.

The Matrix demo is using advanced physics but the simulation as you put it is basic. What do the NPC's do for instance? Nothing is the answer, yet in RDR2 they have different things they do throughout the day as do the many animals. You've got very impressed by moving traffic, it's not impressive and certainly nothing compared to what Rockstar have been doing for decades.

 

[GymWolf]

Tekken showing everyone how it's done! These are 60 fps graphics too!

Tekken 8 breaks into a new generation

Director Katsuhiro Harada dives deep into the game’s first trailer, showcasing footage rendered in real-time and captured from the game running on PS5.

blog.playstation.com

Yeah the close up on the rubber looking skin really show how it's done


Boy i'm gonna annoy you to death with this game

 

[GymWolf]

Its called immersion. Sure its a waste of memory, but if it doesn’t hurt the fidelity of the game, why not? If it fits the genre or vision..

You waste resoruces on that dude, nothing is free.

 

[ChiefDada]

Oh yes there is…tons of devs talked about how it holds games back…

Oh sure I thought he was talking about a specific hardware feature set such as ray tracing or mesh shaders. I'm on record saying series s existence could potentially hold back series x, and in the case if multiplatforms, ps5 as well, because of development hurdles more than anything else.

GymWolf , what's funny about my tekken comment? Literally 100% of the reactions I've seen assumed it was CG. I myself was surprised that people were so skeptical because, while it looks good, it's about what I expected from early current gen. But if you don't think their assumptions are telling then so be it. But we have achieved real time fidelity on consoles that was only achievable via prerendered CG up until very recently.

 

[GymWolf]

Oh sure I thought he was talking about a specific hardware feature set such as ray tracing or mesh shaders. I'm on record saying series s existence could potentially hold back series x, and in the case if multiplatforms, ps5 as well, because of development hurdles more than anything else.

GymWolf , what's funny about my tekken comment? Literally 100% of the reactions I've seen assumed it was CG. I myself was surprised that people were so skeptical because, while it looks good, it's about what I expected from early current gen. But if you don't think their assumptions are telling then so be it. But we have achieved real time fidelity on consoles that was only achievable via prerendered CG up until very recently.

Characters look like cg to you? Really?

You must watch very shitty cg dude.


I laughed because you are always too fast with these cg comparisons, first with some sony games and now with tekken.

Again, we must watch wildly different quality of cg if the model i posted look like cg to you.

 

[ChiefDada]

Characters look like cg to you? Really?

You must watch very shitty cg dude.


I laughed because you are always too fast with these cg comparisons, first with some sony games and now with tekken.

Again, we must watch wildly different quality of cg if the model i posted look like cg to you.

But I literally said the opposite of this.

 

[GymWolf]

But I literally said the opposite of this.

Console reaching cg quality is the opposite of what i said??

No, console are not near cg quality.

Journalist reacting in a exagerate way like they always do or tekken fans being excited because this one looks vastly better than 7 doesn't mean that this looks near cg level.

Unless we are talking about old shitty quality cg, surely not the stuff you see on avatar 2 trailer or even love\robot on netflix level.

I feel like many people have no idea of the power you need for actual cg, the difference between a ps5 and a renderfarm that take HOURS to render one single frame is like earth and sky dude.

I admit that it looks pretty good and the trailer got me a little hyped even if the last tekken i enjoyed was t3, but people acting like this is the second coming of sliced pepperoni is just bizzare to me.

The closest thing to CARTOONY looking cg in some locations\moment is ratchet, but realistic looking cg is another beast entirely.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah the close up on the rubber looking skin really show how it's done


Boy i'm gonna annoy you to death with this game

Bring it on.

 

[SlimySnake]

Since we keep bringing GTA into the Matrix Awakens demo, thought of posting this here, a very cool video:

This is amazing. The traffic and NPC improvements are fantastic and create a far more believable world. The cyberpunk traffic comparison was hilarious. Arguably the best looking game on PC and they completely dropped the ball with the traffic by targeting last gen console CPUs.

 

[alloush]

This is amazing. The traffic and NPC improvements are fantastic and create a far more believable world. The cyberpunk traffic comparison was hilarious. Arguably the best looking game on PC and they completely dropped the ball with the traffic by targeting last gen console CPUs.

Man, I already am in love with The Matrix demo but after watching this video I realized how even more technically amazing it is. I suggest people watch this video I posted it puts into perspective how much of a technical feat The Matrix demo is!

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Even matrix demo can be run on it, ofc its scaled down a lot, especially in terms of resolution(4tf gpu vs 12tf like in series x), so as long as games/projects are build for series X/ ps5 and scaled down- series S wont affect anything, if game is made for series S in the first place, then only expanded upon, then it will be noticable, but so far best looking xbox game, aka forza horizon 5 doesnt suffer from even being on xbox one/one x so u shouldnt worry too much, ofc, u got very talented devs behind it, that matters a lot too.

Same way on ps5 u got new horizon and ragnarok, that still have to run on og ps4, but again- if they are scaled down and ps4 isnt lead platform, everything turns out great(here i think only gt7 doesnt look super impressive on ps5 vs ps4, ofc things got added/expanded but ps5 doesnt look miles better unfortunately.

The difference between being lead platform and not can be seen nicely if u check TLOU ps4 remaster vs part 2 running on ps4(or pro), both running and looking great but u can tell right away og tlou was ps3 game, u can later even compare it to part1 on ps5 which is probably one of best looking games atm.

Yeah ...man it especially ticks me off that Gt7 looks so similar on ps5 pro/ps5 since Sony was advertising it as a Ps5 exclusive for a long time.

Does gt7 in particular puss anyone else off? I find this game to be the epitome of Sony's cross gen bullshit.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Console reaching cg quality is the opposite of what i said??

No, console are not near cg quality.

Journalist reacting in a exagerate way like they always do or tekken fans being excited because this one looks vastly better than 7 doesn't mean that this looks near cg level.

Unless we are talking about old shitty quality cg, surely not the stuff you see on avatar 2 trailer or even love\robot on netflix level.

I feel like many people have no idea of the power you need for actual cg, the difference between a ps5 and a renderfarm that take HOURS to render one single frame is like earth and sky dude.

I admit that it looks pretty good and the trailer got me a little hyped even if the last tekken i enjoyed was t3, but people acting like this is the second coming of sliced pepperoni is just bizzare to me.

The closest thing to CARTOONY looking cg in some locations\moment is ratchet, but realistic looking cg is another beast entirely.

Current CG will always be ahead of current Real time stuff, until both mediums reach the limit and then there will be no difference at all…but yeah Tekken 8 looks like CGI…it looks like the pre rendered trailers you would get a few years ago…super high quality all around…these consoles are capable of pre rendered looking real time stuff, they just need the proper engines.. Look at Spiderman Miles Morales, Ratchet, HFW, TLOU II, TLOU I Remake, Flight Simulator…The Matrix Awakens…these show high levels of fidelity…

Edit: Love Death and Robots has been matched with Both Unity Real time demos and The Matrix Awakens (Sort of)…late gen games will be mind blowing…look at the calisto protocols face models…its a glimpse into possibilities!

 

[SlimySnake]

Man, I already am in love with The Matrix demo but after watching this video I realized how even more technically amazing it is. I suggest people watch this video I posted it puts into perspective how much of a technical feat The Matrix demo is!

I played that demo for like 25 hours last year lol.

I think what this video shows is that it's not just a tech demo. It's the real thing with a lot of open world systems already implemented. It's not a cutscene. It's completely playable and interactive. There is no trickery here. The only thing thats missing is NPC death animations and some people shooting guns at you, but ive seen demos of people flying into cars and having them get thrown half way across the map because all the physics are there. It's as real as it gets.

The Rush Hour video below just showcases how absolutely mind blowing this game looks and feels. It's not just how photorealistic it looks, it's the fact that the game logic can handle what seems like tens of thousands of cars on screen at once.

 

[Sosokrates]

Since we keep bringing GTA into the Matrix Awakens demo, thought of posting this here, a very cool video:

Thats a cool comparison and there is definitely some significant upgrades in the matrix.
I know this is a graphics thread, but with a game like GTA, visuals are not high on the agenda of improvements.
After a while of playing you are not going to be thinking about about the visuals that much. This gen I would vastly prefer improving the world simulation, open worlds (and other genres) are basically the same as GTA3 in terms of the simulation, its time for improvement in that area, realistic NPC's alone would be revolutionary. Even basic interactions are as fake as shit.

 

[SlimySnake]

Current CG will always be ahead of current Real time stuff, until both mediums reach the limit and then there will be no difference at all…but yeah Tekken 8 looks like CGI…it looks like the pre rendered trailers you would get a few years ago…super high quality all around…these consoles are capable of pre rendered looking real time stuff, they just need the proper engines.. Look at Spiderman Miles Morales, Ratchet, HFW, TLOU II, TLOU I Remake, Flight Simulator…The Matrix Awakens…these show high levels of fidelity…

Edit: Love Death and Robots has been matched with Both Unity Real time demos and The Matrix Awakens (Sort of)…late gen games will be mind blowing…look at the calisto protocols face models…its a glimpse into possibilities!

I am watching some of the Tekken 7 CG cutscenes and they've come very close to matching that level of fidelity. I cant say for sure if they are there yet since its just one level, and rain hides a lot of imperfections, but i would love to see their fog and smoke effects.

Found some tumblr gifs. God this game looks awesome.

 

[SlimySnake]

Meanwhile, here is Street Fighter 6. Gymwolf's Graphics GOTY.