Comment makes zero sense unless he bought it off someone on street as you say would be returned straight away. It's got serious panel defect not a issue with oled that could happen with any TV and would be returned.
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To OLED, or not to OLED
- Thread starter Celcius
- Start date
captainpat
Member
I'm surprised to see oled being so popular here. I would have lcd would win you can get them a lot cheaper.
I have oled btw
I have oled btw
lostinblue
Banned
That is true, big plasmas are warm, you feel a difference in that regard.
I don't notice it as much on my 42" unit with passive cooling (instead of fans), I mean I'm sure the PS4 phat that plugs into it generates more heat.
By portable OLED, you mean switch, mobile phone/tablet or a laptop? those can get brighter, but...
on TV's...
Source: https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/10/...certification-brightness-color-viewing-angles
Full screen being what matters here.
So,
2022 QD-LED - almost 200 nits
2021 LG G1 - 167 nits
2013 Panasonic 60VT60 - 158 nits
2013 Samsung F8500 Plasma - 301 nits
It really doesn't feel like we've come a long way here. They are a bit brighter, but not "problem solving" brighter. Current OLED TV's are not that much brighter than plasmas in real-life scenarios. Remember brightness in OLED case means lower lifespan, so every manufacturer wants to go soft on them.
Yeah, the best full array LCD is still competitive. In a lot of cases that's the balance that I prefer, specially if it has a 240 Hz display and Sony's image processing.
But as always with marketing going all OLED tv set quality on the LCD side of things has been dimming. Not because it can't be done but because there is no demand.
I have the suspicion that they implement HDR without having a good reference set to test it on. They're probably using OLED's as reference panels now, so HDR if present is dim.
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Kuranghi
Member
2022 QD-LED - almost 200 nits
2021 LG G1 - 167 nits
2013 Panasonic 60VT60 - 158 nits
2013 Samsung F8500 Plasma - 301 nits
2016 Sony ZD9/Z9D FALD LCD - 600 nits
I still think my flatmates XF9005 is still a great set, even moderately zoned local dimming sets that are 600-800 nits are still infinitely better for HDR than entry level sets.
I hope Hisense kind of reignites the LCD tech race, I think Sony has hard decisions to make and they could drop LG OLED and just have the Samsung panel as the top of the range with LCD below like back in late 2017. Or at least only 1 model instead of 3 like 2022. model.
I've spoken to some developers and they definitely were grading it on substandard HDR monitors like last brightness IPS panels and were like, looks great to me because they haven't seen better contrast
The OLED as reference panels is definitely the other problem, so you end up with games where they don't consider LCD users because for them the UI is perfectly defined with no blooming risk.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Perfect quote from that article
If you’re gaming or watching movies on your TV in a dimly-lit environment, OLED screens are a better choice. However, if you’re a fan of HDR viewing experience in a brightly-lit room, Mini LED excels in those areas.
StereoVsn
Member
Yep, it's basically about your viewing environment.Perfect quote from that article
If you’re gaming or watching movies on your TV in a dimly-lit environment, OLED screens are a better choice. However, if you’re a fan of HDR viewing experience in a brightly-lit room, Mini LED excels in those areas.
I took it back to Harvey Norman (AUS retailer) this morning. They will take it up with Sony (that's the protocol apparently) and will call me back in 1-2 days. What also seemed really strange was that TV had the energy star rating sticker on the panel. Instead of regular Sony Sticker on the top right-hand corner. I am not sure, but these energy rating stickers are supposed to be stuck only on store displays only. Staff member also thought that was a bit strange. Perhaps someone put the ex-display model into the box? Now, wait and hope for the best.
Regards
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Rockondevil
Member
Recently got a Samsung QN90B (QLED) and I love it.
I didn't care too much about having the blacks that OLED is great for which made the choice easier.
I'm probably just paranoid but I'm so worried about burn in over the long-term so that just gets me scared of the OLED.
I didn't care too much about having the blacks that OLED is great for which made the choice easier.
I'm probably just paranoid but I'm so worried about burn in over the long-term so that just gets me scared of the OLED.
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
OLED you fuckn pussy
Also Im better than you, and you know it
Also Im better than you, and you know it
MacReady13
Member
What are peoples thoughts here on the Samsung Neo QLED? Thinking of picking up the newest 55” model QN90C (wanted the QN95C but not looking like Australia will get this model). I game mainly on it and that burn in factor for OLED is the only factor I will not go down that path.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
The QN90C is a downgrade from the previous year. QN90A or QN90B are your best bet from Samsung. The Hisense U8H is a good LCD. The Hisense U8K releasing this year will likely be even better.
daveonezero
Banned
Yeah and it’s too bad they stopped making the U9H.
And price. You’re looking at over twice as much for marginal improvements. I steered my family to a Sony LED because it’s a daytime TV and they do a good job of a wide variety of content.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
OLED
reinking
Gold Member
Meh. I had a TV die tonight. It was an LED and I am replacing it with a budget LED (U8H). Unfortunately, my espresso machine also died this week and I am in the middle of replacing it too. It is the current priority since I will probably stick to my plan of upgrading this TV around black Friday or early next year.
* I decided to hold off on the U8H. Too close to closeout pricing on this year models and I read that Costco might start their clearance tomorrow. How is this for LCD? I pulled an old Vizio I had in storage. 32" of 1080p glory. I still have my 65" Sony in the bedroom and there is always PSVR2 if I really need to watch something on a big screen.
* I decided to hold off on the U8H. Too close to closeout pricing on this year models and I read that Costco might start their clearance tomorrow. How is this for LCD? I pulled an old Vizio I had in storage. 32" of 1080p glory. I still have my 65" Sony in the bedroom and there is always PSVR2 if I really need to watch something on a big screen.
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//DEVIL//
Member
I do not like low brightness. I had Sony A90k Oled that I returned after 2 weeks. if I want an acceptable brightness I have to put the brightness to the highest almost.
I am also very OCD, I had to put a wallpaper engine that moving wallpaper slightly and hide the taskbar and hide icons from the desktop just so I avoid burn-in. but the idea of burn-in kept playing in my head.
my monitor is Acer X27p from 2019. It's 4k 144 IPS with FLAD. I can not even put the brightness to more than 50% because it will be too high for my eyes. sometimes I keep it running for hours I do not even worry about it.
I know about the warranty of Oled and it will take 1000s of hours or whatever crap they want to feed us, I am just not ready for the hassle or doing returns and shit.
my next TV / Monitor will be the micro IPS. I do not fall for the hype influencers try to push on social media and youtube trying to push the oled technology. it's not for me and I do not think it's the future either.
I am also very OCD, I had to put a wallpaper engine that moving wallpaper slightly and hide the taskbar and hide icons from the desktop just so I avoid burn-in. but the idea of burn-in kept playing in my head.
my monitor is Acer X27p from 2019. It's 4k 144 IPS with FLAD. I can not even put the brightness to more than 50% because it will be too high for my eyes. sometimes I keep it running for hours I do not even worry about it.
I know about the warranty of Oled and it will take 1000s of hours or whatever crap they want to feed us, I am just not ready for the hassle or doing returns and shit.
my next TV / Monitor will be the micro IPS. I do not fall for the hype influencers try to push on social media and youtube trying to push the oled technology. it's not for me and I do not think it's the future either.
MacReady13
Member
I actually get a fairly sizeable discount on all things Samsung, hence why I’m looking at the Samsung TV’s!!!
Calverz
Member
LG 65CX in living room with Series x, switch and ps3 connected.
LG 42C2 in office with PC, gamecube and ps2 connected.
Shitty Samsung LCD in bedroom with series s connected.
kittoo
Cretinously credulous
If you are planning to get the new LG G3 OLEDs, then the 'OLEDs are not for bright rooms' argument also goes out the window. These TVs are blasting 1500 nits peak brightness in filmmaker mode, so are indeed extremely bright. Just watch digital trends review of the G3. He literally says these are now excellent bright room TVs too.
I bought a G2 last year so am almost sad that I didn't wait a year, but on the other hand I find the G2 to be plenty bright too.
I bought a G2 last year so am almost sad that I didn't wait a year, but on the other hand I find the G2 to be plenty bright too.
Unknown Soldier
Member
OLED is not the future of anything, much like plasma it is a transitional technology as we work towards an emissive display technology that doesn't have pixels which wear out.
People replace their phones every 2-4 years and OLED is fine for short lifespan devices like that. Most people keep their TV's a decade or more, mainly because TV's are big and a pain in the ass to move around.
If you're fine with throwing your TV away every 2-4 years and buying a new one, then OLED is pretty amazing. But it has a short projected lifespan and the lifespan gets shorter the more you watch content that will wear pixels unevenly and cause burn-in. Gaming is an example of content that wears pixels unevenly and causes burn-in. I know a guy who has the Fortnite UI burned into his LG OLED because his son plays that incessantly.
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Soodanim
Gold Member
My only experience with BFI is on a ~10 year old G-Sync monitor that cut the brightness right down, but my god it was worth it for the motion clarity. And now you're telling me I can have that at an every day brightness?
Fuck all the rest of the arguments, that is the stuff I need from my next TV. I hope they do that on something about half the size, though.
MasterDerico
Member
I use an LCD on my game room, i play old games, 11 consoles hooked. So, for low fps its amazing.
In my living room i have an OLED.
Both LG.
In my living room i have an OLED.
Both LG.
sertopico
Member
I really wanted to get one of those new 1440p 27 inches OLEDs but since it's gonna be a gaming/work monitor I am now in doubt. As an owner of a 65 inches CX I know how good it can look but I think the time is not ripe for this tech yet. There are too many things you have to be careful about to prevent burn in in an office environment and so many static elements on screen.
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Bojji
Member
OLED is the best display tech available in fairly reasonable prices. More expensive mini LEDs can come relatively close in IQ but pricing is close to OLEDs as well so it doesn't make much sense. Only scenario when mini led might be a better choice is for well lit rooms.
Perfects blacks, ultra low response times, excellent vrr support (at least on LG from 40-120hz), amazing image quality and good (for not super bright environments) HDR support.
Burn in is non issue in latest LG models and only other thing that can be considered as negative is that with almost instant response times 30fps games without motion blur can look stuttery. Solution to that is of course not to play and support games that are 30fps in 2023
Perfects blacks, ultra low response times, excellent vrr support (at least on LG from 40-120hz), amazing image quality and good (for not super bright environments) HDR support.
Burn in is non issue in latest LG models and only other thing that can be considered as negative is that with almost instant response times 30fps games without motion blur can look stuttery. Solution to that is of course not to play and support games that are 30fps in 2023
Unknown Soldier
Member
Who needs OLED when you can have this??
www.samsung.com
110" Class MICRO LED Samsung (2022) | Samsung US
Discover the latest art display TV features and innovations available in the 110" Class MICRO LED Samsung (2022).
www.samsung.com
JeloSWE
Member
Please note that this is on Sony miniLED TVs. I can't vouch for other brands or regular full array LEDs. Although regular ones tend to not lose too much brightness, I was still shocked when I saw how little my miniLED dropped.
JeloSWE
Member
Burn in is not a complete non issue. It's just that the brightness limiting algorithms and pixel refreshers (wear leveling) will keep things looking uniform. But eventually you will have burn in, especially if you view the same content all the time, such as a monitor with a taskbar or watch cnn everyday for hours. But if the content is varied and static content is kept within reason and brightness is kept reined in it may take years before it shows up on the newer models and before that that time you will likely buy a new one.OLED is the best display tech available in fairly reasonable prices. More expensive mini LEDs can come relatively close in IQ but pricing is close to OLEDs as well so it doesn't make much sense. Only scenario when mini led might be a better choice is for well lit rooms.
Perfects blacks, ultra low response times, excellent vrr support (at least on LG from 40-120hz), amazing image quality and good (for not super bright environments) HDR support.
Burn in is non issue in latest LG models and only other thing that can be considered as negative is that with almost instant response times 30fps games without motion blur can look stuttery. Solution to that is of course not to play and support games that are 30fps in 2023
Fact is, if burn in was a no issue. OLEDs wouldn't have all those anti burn in features and would be able to do bright 1000+ nit full screen content as well as highlights of over 2000 nit.
MikeM
Member
10 year old ST50 Panasonic plasma checking in- no burn in. Also have a LG C1.
If you know your tech you can easily mitigate any burn-in risk in today’s panels.
Boots_the_God
Member
C2 OLED currently. Might go with a QLED next though as my kids are getting into gaming and have a habit of leaving the game running. The risk of burn in is real. It happened to my previous model. Also, for how beautiful the picture is, I do find myself wishing the tv could get brighter when watching content on extra sunny days.
Boots_the_God
Member
Just return it?Well I am gutted.Been saving for some time, and last week went out and purchased a Sony A80J OLED. Quick (glance) inspection at the warehouse and it all looked alright. Today, finally had some time so decided to unbox and set it up. After I took it out the box, and put the stands on, The horror! I noticed a circular hairline crack at the bottom centre. My heart sunk. Went to turn it on. Flash of red lines ,then nothing and the red light blinking. Sitting here now. Feels like a real bad dream.
lostinblue
Banned
There's a distinction to be made there.
Initial generations of plasma screens suffered from two types of "retention", one being actual aging of the subpixels when displaying the same content for prolonged amounts of time; the second being phosphor excitation (that's an actual term/phenomena) which means that pixels displaying brighter colors (more energy) for prolonged amounts of time will remain excited for a while, by excited we mean those pixels will appear brighter.
The first, was/is burn-in akin to the one OLED's are prone to and was completely solved, later plasmas had crazy panel lifespans, way higher than CRT and LCD. They could over-engineer on that tech so they did. You can't comparatively over engineer OLED on that front.
The second wasn't burn-in but prolonged retention. Which was semi-mitigated by creating new Phosphor formulas that reduced it's "excitedness", adding subfields to the panel, adding plasma grain, pixel orbiter settings and screensaver/dimming (some of these help with burn-in as well, which is why OLED sets have them, but this is not why they were implemented on Plasma sets). This isn't dangerous for the panel, and while it looks like burn-in it isn't; just part of the tech and something they could not engineer out.
The only caveat here, was that they were still supposed to be more prone to burn-in during the initial period, which is why people did a break-in run on plasmas, with the manufacturers after a certain point saying they already did it in the factory. This burn-in is most likely phosphor retention and will clean up over time, it's just that it'll take a lot longer than if that excitedness happened before the panel had some miles on it. I personally hate retention when I see it on LCD's, so it's not cool on Plasma either, but I'll take it any day over burn-in. On my experience, LCD retention is usually more pronounced, but clears up really fast by comparison, so I can live with plasma retention. I'm not sure I could say the same thing if I used plasma as a pc monitor though.
If you see "retention" on an OLED panel, it's most likely burn-in (uneven aging of the pixels), if you see retention on a Plasma it's a temporary thing, but it might last a while if the panel was abused (playing the same game over and over on dynamic mode or with high brightness settings).
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Bojji
Member
That's why I said on LG models
Longevity Burn-In Investigative Paths After 3 Months: QD-OLED vs. WOLED, LG vs. Sony, And More
Our accelerated longevity test has been running for over three months, and we've already encountered some very interesting results. We've already had three partial TV failures and one complete failure, which wasn't expected this early in the test.
www.rtings.com
They have done the worst possible stress test for OLED tvs and LG models remained untouched by burn in issues. For normal usage probably all current OLED tvs will be fine.
lostinblue
Banned
Hah, the thing is they're doing an insane thing to prevent burn-in, which is every few hours when you turn your tv off, it'll "pencil sharpen" it's pixels, by aging them all, and run a longer extra process every few thousands of hours when off. Send a OLED screen to LG for warranty and they might as well fix it through "pencil sharpening" and increasing voltage to compensate the loss of brightness that would occur, but that's not what you should want. Increasing voltage has a low ceiling limit too.That's why I said on LG models
Longevity Burn-In Investigative Paths After 3 Months: QD-OLED vs. WOLED, LG vs. Sony, And More
Our accelerated longevity test has been running for over three months, and we've already encountered some very interesting results. We've already had three partial TV failures and one complete failure, which wasn't expected this early in the test.
They have done the worst possible stress test for OLED tvs and LG models remained untouched by burn in issues. For normal usage probably all current OLED tvs will be fine.
Both things are not great, both halve the lifespan and together they'll halve more than if they were separate. There's no way they're underdriving these displays so much as to compensate for that. Also remember LG does every OLED out there that's not samsung QD-OLED, so the A90K Sony panel in that test (suffering from burn-in), is LG through and through. No aggressive LG "pixel pencil sharpening" routines are what seems to be "hurting it". Sony A95K uses a Samsung panel, but seeing Samsung TV's are also having issues it's harder to isolate.
On that link you posted, check the Brightness category near the end. Sure they're not worried about it and IMO even argue some stupid stuff in there (they argue it's within margin of error when they have a freaking lab for that and still it actually flunctuates down on a graph on both tests? I'm sure they also measure multiple times then do an average for each reading... so it's sounds like something undeniable being denied, so denial/bias) but fact is they provide data enough to know that something is happening, as well as mentioning Hisense U6G decreased by 15.9% on the 10% window and the LG QNED99 8k decreased 13.8% in the same time, which is 1200 hours in (I'm sure voltage compensation will kick-in so the drop is not linear, but it'll happen). Notice they don't talk about any of the Sony TV's losing brightness (seeing it's pencil sharpening a lot less), the caveat being that they now have burn-in.
That's the most interesting part of that readup tbh and you have to read between the lines, the rest is kinda barebones.
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Rocco Schiavone
Member
I did. Guess what It wasn't LCD with worse picture quality in game mode.
captainpat
Member
I wonder who buys those "consumer" level Micro-led tvs.Who needs OLED when you can have this??
110" Class MICRO LED Samsung (2022) | Samsung US
Discover the latest art display TV features and innovations available in the 110" Class MICRO LED Samsung (2022).
DaciaJC
Gold Member
I only have a PC monitor for my desktop, and while I would absolutely love an OLED for those inky blacks - even high-end IPS monitors are subpar here - I'm concerned about burn-in. I don't want to have to resort to using a black wallpaper or getting rid of my desktop icons or minimizing the taskbar, so I guess I'll continue to wait while the technology matures further.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
This LCD from Hisense is going to be amazing and targeting rich people.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Even reading that is still blows my mind how Apple packed 10,000 mini LEDs 2500 zones and peak 1600 nits into their 12.9" Ipad Pro thats now 2 years old (I think its about 2 years old anyhow)
Woffls
Member
OLED 55C7 since late 2017. The panel always had some banding, which I didn't bother resolving for like 4 years - they just straight up replaced the panel for free. No burn in on either.
Always thinking about an upgrade because it looks tiny next to my speakers, but still very happy with image quality. Would be nice if Quick Start worked with Wake-on-LAN though
Would be nice to have an OLED monitor for my PC as well, but they're like a grand so no thanks.
Always thinking about an upgrade because it looks tiny next to my speakers, but still very happy with image quality. Would be nice if Quick Start worked with Wake-on-LAN though
Would be nice to have an OLED monitor for my PC as well, but they're like a grand so no thanks.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
You get what you pay for. Honestly the reason why they aren't pushing these Mini LEDs harder with the dimming zones and backlighting is because they just want you to buy the OLED. We both have QN90A and it has taken Samsung 3 years to release a significant upgrade in the tech(upcoming QN95C). Hisense will be the one to continue pushing LCD tech forward. That UX from Hisense is going to be something special.
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