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To OLED, or not to OLED
- Thread starter Celcius
- Start date
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Doesn’t matter what you game on, obviously the bigger the better.
kiphalfton
Member
And if it gets burn in, don't be cheap and just buy another one.
Not like people don't needlessly spend money on other crap they don't use, so not sure why everybody devotes more mental energy deciding what to buy than inecessary.
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MaestroMike
Gold Member
Oled for games, older plasma television for watching television and movies I have already seen. Both LG
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
The two high end 4K LCDs to consider this year are Samsung's QN95C and Hisense's U8K. Samsung dropped the ball on the QN90C because they don't consider it a flagship TV, and they are in the OLED business now.
![[Sigma]](/data/avatars/m/701/701747.jpg?1685439978){kind=avatar}
Majormaxxx
Member
I first had a 21.5 inch TFT monitor in around 2006-8 maybe.. Not great for movies. Then got an led 23 inch monitor. Improvement but not great viewing angle. Then got a 27 inch tv/monitor. Great for work and gaming but smallish for movies at over 10 feet. Currently a 49 sony bravia. Next one I want is an oled bravia 55.
hououinkyouma00
Member
OLED 1000%
While I'm sure I could go back to a non-OLED display, I would never want to. The picture quality is just so much better, alongside basically every other important aspect of a display.
I would buy a OLED monitor in a heartbeat if they weren't so expensive.
While I'm sure I could go back to a non-OLED display, I would never want to. The picture quality is just so much better, alongside basically every other important aspect of a display.
I would buy a OLED monitor in a heartbeat if they weren't so expensive.
If you sit in a dark room all day and night, don't care about HDR and never pause games for extended periods of time without turning the TV off, then go with an (LG) OLED.
If you enjoy being in a decently lit room, like a bright, vivid, real HDR experience and don't want to feel panic everytime you take a break from gaming without turning the TV off, then I'd recommend a (Samsung) QLED.
If you enjoy being in a decently lit room, like a bright, vivid, real HDR experience and don't want to feel panic everytime you take a break from gaming without turning the TV off, then I'd recommend a (Samsung) QLED.
radewagon
Member
Truth. I've got an OLED tablet that has transformed reading comics. Mike Mignola's Hellboy is stunning with the deep blacks of an OLED screen.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
It’s visibly choppy for anything low fps. TV and movies absolutely need interpolation, otherwise that “30fps is a slideshow” gamer’s complain becomes a sad reality. But even interpolation isn’t a complete solution. Anime and cartoons, for example, actually look even worse with interpolation. Having to change motion settings to accommodate every different content was driving me even crazier, especially because the motion settings are quite deep in LG’s menu.
And of course you don’t want interpolation for games, otherwise you get unacceptable input lag. Therefore, anything below 50-something fps just plain blows due to OLED’s ultrafast refresh, and I assure you that even at 60 fps the motion of some games feels wrong. While some people swear that black frame insertion works wonders on newer OLEDs, on the fabled LG C9 I was duped into buying it was simply useless. I quickly came to loathe the very idea of turning on that TV, and I had simply stopped playing quite a few games on it.
I am never buying an OLED again unless I can extensively test it with every possible type of content before purchase. So, never.
I’m not saying that the LED TV I’m using now is perfect on the motion front, but it’s leagues better than my experience with LG’s OLEDs.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
These LGs do not get very bright as I had the 27" and now the 45" ultrawide and even with the latest firmware it only raised its brightness about 9 nits.
The newest panels coming are brighter though
JeloSWE
Member
Sony 85" X95K LED (uses a QD panel)
2000 nit highlights
800 nit full screen
100hz and 120hz BFI
Reasons not to go OLED: I use it 16 hours a day for work and entertainment, OLED is way to riskey with my static work desktop. I love intense bright HDR and don't like brightness limiting algorithms that reduces the risk of burn in. This year's LG MLA panels doesn't support 120hz BFI only 60hz which is an absolute no go once you're used to 120hz BFI. Also the X95K has virtually ZERO brightness drop when using BFI, it's quite ridiculous turning the feature on and off and trying to spot the difference, I measured with my light meter and it was at most a drop of 50 nit in some scenarios. An OLED would be closer to losing half of its light output.
I'm not hating on OLED and eventually this tech or similar will be able to do intense 2000+ nit HDR without dimming or worry of burn in, but we are not there for my type of use case.
2000 nit highlights
800 nit full screen
100hz and 120hz BFI
Reasons not to go OLED: I use it 16 hours a day for work and entertainment, OLED is way to riskey with my static work desktop. I love intense bright HDR and don't like brightness limiting algorithms that reduces the risk of burn in. This year's LG MLA panels doesn't support 120hz BFI only 60hz which is an absolute no go once you're used to 120hz BFI. Also the X95K has virtually ZERO brightness drop when using BFI, it's quite ridiculous turning the feature on and off and trying to spot the difference, I measured with my light meter and it was at most a drop of 50 nit in some scenarios. An OLED would be closer to losing half of its light output.
I'm not hating on OLED and eventually this tech or similar will be able to do intense 2000+ nit HDR without dimming or worry of burn in, but we are not there for my type of use case.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
I agree with you both for my main TV I would never pick just an OLED because I tend to leave it on a lot where static images are displayed plus I need the overall brightness higher battling the natural sunlight coming into my house
I am in minority but I bought the 42 inch C2 and to tell you the truth I'm not blown away. If I had to do it all over again I probably would have gotten the 42 inch Samsung QN90B instead. I have always like a vivid picture and never care about proper calibration of my tvs, so this is why I am not crazy in love with my C2. The C2 is pretty dim compared to my LED tvs from the past, but the blacks are great on the C2 don't get me wrong.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yeah, I hope flagship OLED TVs start taking advantage of DSC so we can get 240Hz at 4K on HDMI 2.1.
Yes, I know most games can barely take advantage of 120 fps, but 240 Hz is great when you can take advantage.
daveonezero
Banned
I’m hesitant to get an oled because my wife wants a “frame” like tv displaying art.
My parents have a Sony X90k and I’m quite impressed with it. I just can’t justify spending oled money when I want something 65”+
And it would work not have always on to display art of pictures when not in use.
I didn’t know Hisense was releasing an update. I’ve heard some great things about the U8H
My parents have a Sony X90k and I’m quite impressed with it. I just can’t justify spending oled money when I want something 65”+
This is the model I’m eyeing.Hisense U8H 65inch that cost me $800. Coming in at #3 at RTings in HDR Movies and HDR Gaming.
And it would work not have always on to display art of pictures when not in use.
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StereoVsn
Member
LG C2/3 or G2/3 OLED cannot be beat for the price/performance. Especially C series, IMO, you get a lot for that price. G line is better but a lot more $$$. Samsung I don't trust QC or longevity. Sony is great but more for non-gaming content and a bit more $. Panasonic - no idea.
Unless you are in a bright room, OLED is just so much better vs anything else unless you go MicroLED which is major $$$$.
Unless you are in a bright room, OLED is just so much better vs anything else unless you go MicroLED which is major $$$$.
StereoVsn
Member
I mean its great for PC, but for consoles, we have been going back and forth about 30 FPS taking front-center on the current gen, lol. We'll probably see 240hz in the near future (think there has been a monitor released recently with that), but its utterly pointless for 99% of gamers.
lostinblue
Banned
OLED is overated.
If price is cheap or same as LCD, OLED. Otherwise get a good LCD and use it as a stopgap until OLED replacement technologies arrive. (that's mini-led and micro-led)
Don't pay a lot extra for a top of the line OLED, is what I'm saying.
The main reason for brightness limitation on plasma being power consumption, the main reason on OLED being that LED lifespan is not determined by hours but how much energy goes to the diode.
Motion on OLED is disappointing and as important when it comes to moving images as sheer image quality. This is theoretically not a unsurmountable problem if there is good post-processing involved which is why Sony and Panasonic managed to do flagships that massively beat LG for movie viewing while using LG panels, but we're simply not there yet, 240 Hz panels are needed for that as well as a lot of clever implementations.
When these happen, we'll probably already have MicroLED and they'll instead enhance micro-led motion (that'll otherwise suffer from the same issues as OLED).
If price is cheap or same as LCD, OLED. Otherwise get a good LCD and use it as a stopgap until OLED replacement technologies arrive. (that's mini-led and micro-led)
Don't pay a lot extra for a top of the line OLED, is what I'm saying.
Funny how when plasma was on the way out, lack of brightness was the main reason OLED was the future. Samsung even did a last run of plasmas (F8500) who at least one reviewer pinned down as "Plasma that looks like OLED".
The main reason for brightness limitation on plasma being power consumption, the main reason on OLED being that LED lifespan is not determined by hours but how much energy goes to the diode.
Motion on OLED is disappointing and as important when it comes to moving images as sheer image quality. This is theoretically not a unsurmountable problem if there is good post-processing involved which is why Sony and Panasonic managed to do flagships that massively beat LG for movie viewing while using LG panels, but we're simply not there yet, 240 Hz panels are needed for that as well as a lot of clever implementations.
When these happen, we'll probably already have MicroLED and they'll instead enhance micro-led motion (that'll otherwise suffer from the same issues as OLED).
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thebigmanjosh
Member
OLED with 120hz BFI is Like 80/90% there. It’s a shame manufacturers stopped putting that in last year because it was about as close as any TV tech has come to plasma motion res
Kuranghi
Member
Theres no point in even discussing it unless you want to buy specific old used LCDs.
In 2023: LG's LCDs use IPS panels so contrast is trash, Sony's have VA but don't have enough dimming zones, the X95K has a great amount of zones but not spectacular + isn't available in 55", Samsung's Neo QLEDs have had broken game modes since inception.
Hisense's 2022 U8H has a VA panel and a great amount of dimming zones in the 55" and 65" (75" not enough) but the image processing and gradient handling is subpar vs. LG + Samsung and especially Sony. Motion processing is also slightly worse than Samsung on Hisense (Sony best, LG 2nd, Samsung 3rd, etc) but thats kind of irrelevant to gaming. Upscaling isn't as good either but thats not relevant when the console is doing all the scaling, image processing differences are in how the content is identified and presented.
This year Samsung might fix their game mode in the Neo QLED C range but if they don't then its just Hisense again, which this year will actually have more dimming zones than the Sony ZD9 in 75", same in 65" (Sony 2016 ZD9:~650/~850 vs. Hisense 2023 U8K: ~650/1000). If they can improve the gradient handling to be as good as Samsung (Who are also 3rd place in that regard vs. Sony and LG) and the general image presentation to be a bit better I think they can be an actually worth considering alternative to OLED due to having the usual ultra-high end LCD advantages over OLED, "good enough" blooming control and black level + big price advantage.
I think if you buy a Hisense U8H (Samsung QN90/95B can't be considered due to fucked game mode even though it has more zones than the U8H imo, but its not terrible or anything) you'll still get a fantastic experience with the LCD benefits over OLED, but they have their downside as listed above. I wouldn't say they are nearly as good enough of a competitor to OLED for dark/challenging scenes like Sony's 2016 ZD9 or Samsung's 2018 Q9FN was/is.
I assume Samsung don't want to go back to thicker TV's so until backlight advancements are made, like better image processors to keep up with so many dimming zones or even Electroluminiscent Quantum Dots, they will have this messed up game mode. They don't want to increase input lag which would probably be another way to solve the issue.
TL;DR - Close this thread and buy an OLED since you won't even know what you're missing from specific ultra-high LCDs without having experience with both.
In 2023: LG's LCDs use IPS panels so contrast is trash, Sony's have VA but don't have enough dimming zones, the X95K has a great amount of zones but not spectacular + isn't available in 55", Samsung's Neo QLEDs have had broken game modes since inception.
Hisense's 2022 U8H has a VA panel and a great amount of dimming zones in the 55" and 65" (75" not enough) but the image processing and gradient handling is subpar vs. LG + Samsung and especially Sony. Motion processing is also slightly worse than Samsung on Hisense (Sony best, LG 2nd, Samsung 3rd, etc) but thats kind of irrelevant to gaming. Upscaling isn't as good either but thats not relevant when the console is doing all the scaling, image processing differences are in how the content is identified and presented.
This year Samsung might fix their game mode in the Neo QLED C range but if they don't then its just Hisense again, which this year will actually have more dimming zones than the Sony ZD9 in 75", same in 65" (Sony 2016 ZD9:~650/~850 vs. Hisense 2023 U8K: ~650/1000). If they can improve the gradient handling to be as good as Samsung (Who are also 3rd place in that regard vs. Sony and LG) and the general image presentation to be a bit better I think they can be an actually worth considering alternative to OLED due to having the usual ultra-high end LCD advantages over OLED, "good enough" blooming control and black level + big price advantage.
I think if you buy a Hisense U8H (Samsung QN90/95B can't be considered due to fucked game mode even though it has more zones than the U8H imo, but its not terrible or anything) you'll still get a fantastic experience with the LCD benefits over OLED, but they have their downside as listed above. I wouldn't say they are nearly as good enough of a competitor to OLED for dark/challenging scenes like Sony's 2016 ZD9 or Samsung's 2018 Q9FN was/is.
I assume Samsung don't want to go back to thicker TV's so until backlight advancements are made, like better image processors to keep up with so many dimming zones or even Electroluminiscent Quantum Dots, they will have this messed up game mode. They don't want to increase input lag which would probably be another way to solve the issue.
TL;DR - Close this thread and buy an OLED since you won't even know what you're missing from specific ultra-high LCDs without having experience with both.
Crushed blacks on an oled? I remember people complaing about House of the dragon and Mando season 3 ep2 being too dark and not being able to see much, but when I watch on my OLED they looked great, I cant see the problem.
lostinblue
Banned
I disagree. As a tech bracket, it retains every advantage it had 10 years ago, against both LCD and OLED. Disadvantages as well, btw.
Bells and whistles? Sure. you don't have a built in chromecast, 4K, HDR, VRR, high refresh rate and modern state of the art stuff. But it's not as if the tech/panel couldn't handle it, and I'd argue perhaps it doesn't need it, perhaps we don't need it as well. That said, for most of these bells and whistles there's nothing keeping these 2013 panels from being able to do it, other than that, at the time these implementations didn't exist.
At the distance my 65VT60 is, 4K would be redundant. high refresh rate? 60 Hz is honestly fine for this generation; HDR is basically a novelty if the screen doesn't get bright enough. We could go on.
Top range, last generation plasmas are still some of the best TV's ever manufactured, if you test them side by side with OLED you'll be surprised. Image quality wise, motion is comparatively unmatched
I would probably go the latter, to be honest.
I agree with your points, although personally there's another option.
Buy into price/quality and wait until a better product without the caveats surfaces. I believe that was what you were highlighting while speaking about the Hisense U8H or comparable TV set.
In regards to dimming zones, I'm waiting for a "1 dimming zone per each pixel" boom at some point (same thing as saying mini-LED). It'll be a perfect first step towards micro-led building facilities (1 subpixel instead of 3 or 4 means better yields and hopefully cheaper prices) but that's clearly still not this year. Perhaps 2024.
That's the tech I'm most interested in personally. Specially in sets with those panels made by Sony.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's just impossible for OLED's to operate at a very low light emission. LCD's are also lit by LED's but due to the layers above them they need to "over-expose" to get through, hence worse blacks. Pick your poison.
JeloSWE
Member
Once you go Nit you can never quit.Once you go black you never go back.
Barakov
Member
Once you go black you never go back.
Vblad88
Member
Oh that is so untrue to me. I'm rocking a Benq 32" 4K VA LCD HDR with sub 400 nits (so fake HDR as they call it) and it is actually soothing. Plus low lit HDR plays way better with dark games on sunny days. That's all I need. OLEDs burns my eyes in the first place.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
The U8H is a great TV and a steal at its current prices now that they are clearing them out to make room for the upcoming U8K.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
I care about not having a dim TV.
JeloSWE
Member
Just because a TV can go bright doesn't mean it has to. It just meanest that it can if you or the content want to. Generally, you don't want anything full screen to be very bright but it's the pop in highlights and light sources that gives you that sparking briliance you are looking for in HDR. You are used to seeing things in everyday life that far exceeds the HDR standard of 10.000 nit without getting blinded let alone 2000 or 1000 nit. At least I have the ability when I want to.
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fran.fernandez
Member
Always had LCD and every time I bring the tv home from the store I was kinda disappointed, it does not look good like in store…
Bough oled like 3/5 year ago. Never go back , impressive.
Bough oled like 3/5 year ago. Never go back , impressive.
Buggy Loop
Member
Still on my 2008 (? Or 2009?) last series of the legendary Pioneer Kuro, plasma. The best of plasma tech as even after Panasonic bought the tech, they could not quite match. (Too expensive)
Still blows my mind even after all those years and still not super impressed by what I see in the stores.
Also acts as a heater for Canadian winters!
I’m rebuilding the whole basement for a proper home theater. I’m going 120” projector laser lens. Acoustic transparent screen to have the LCR speakers behind at the same height.
Still blows my mind even after all those years and still not super impressed by what I see in the stores.
Also acts as a heater for Canadian winters!
I’m rebuilding the whole basement for a proper home theater. I’m going 120” projector laser lens. Acoustic transparent screen to have the LCR speakers behind at the same height.
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flying_sq
Member
I don't know man, it generates so much heat, by the time I'm done watching a movie it's much warmer in my living room, fine for fall and winter, but the spring and summer it's just way too hot. The blacks look fine, but if you have any small white light on a dark background it just smears or has a significant halo. I never notice any motion issues on the portable OLED stuff I have. It's so dim in comparison too, just feel like the image quality isn't what people are on about. When I get a QD OLED I'll do my own comparison, but I really don't think it will be that big of a deal. 120 hz would be nice, I'm on PC, and 4k 120 is pretty nice, I'm about 5-6ft from my tv, with movies I don't really tell a difference, but I can on games for resolution.
LordBlodgett
Member
Can't you return it?Well I am gutted.Been saving for some time, and last week went out and purchased a Sony A80J OLED. Quick (glance) inspection at the warehouse and it all looked alright. Today, finally had some time so decided to unbox and set it up. After I took it out the box, and put the stands on, The horror! I noticed a circular hairline crack at the bottom centre. My heart sunk. Went to turn it on. Flash of red lines ,then nothing and the red light blinking. Sitting here now. Feels like a real bad dream.
Kuranghi
Member
That's why I still use my ZD9 as my gaming display, the HDR impact is insane and dark scenes are almost always amazing.
The main issue for ZD9/ultra high end MiniLED LCDs is just lunatic devs not allowing you to control the brightness of the UI, so it blooms into the dark scenes, like in RE4 Remake recently, which has quite nice HDR but generally the presentation of shadows/dark scenes is weird in some areas, as it usually is in RE Engine games (RE7 and RE8 are best in this regard, almost perfect).
If you could only control the UI brightness in HDR mode that would solve most of my issue with LCD over OLED for gaming. I prefer my LCD motion over OLED, I dislike motion so clear that even motion blur can't make it smooth, I'm gaming at 30 and 60 for various reasons, so I can't just generate more frames to smooth it out.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I have burn in on my oled from my kid watching Minecraft videos all the time. It’s an older oled though. Been almost 7 years now though and it’s just showing up now.
I still recommend it though as it looks so good.
I still recommend it though as it looks so good.
Have to laugh at some of the comments in here everyone is a expert now from watching YouTube videos. I've a oled in living room for few years won't mention brand because they all the same really people say this one has 10 more nits or 3% quicker input lag it doesn't matter as long as it's oled, I bought a Samsung 42 inch LCD for bedroom and sold it on with a week the difference to oled is huge went and got a 48 inch oled for bedroom then. When you go oled you won't go back forget about all the burn in rubbish just get a oled if you are remotely interested in picture quality.