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[MidGenRefresh]

What other athletic move or action interaction of a video game protagonist is enhanced by a 1st person view?

Everything that has to do with immersion, world / item interaction, exploration is better in first person. And acrobatic movement can be done amazingly as well, Mirror Edge figured it out 15+ years ago.

Don’t like it, don’t play it. Quit whining.

 

[StueyDuck]

I disagree.
It's impossible to have action adventure title from third-person about globetrotting adventure with relic hunter as main protagonist and avoid comparison with Uncharted. But you can pretend otherwise.

Tomb Raider didn't avoid comparisons even while being pretty different game from design point of view.

Also, bringing Gears of War which is third-person shooter and not third-person action adventure is pretty weird...

And expecting that from MachineGames which is FPS studio and which DNA consists of games like Escape from Butchers Bay and The Darkness is pretty strange in my opinion. It's like expecting FPS game from Naughty Dog.

But I digress.

i disagree because that means the developer lacks the talent to do so. anything can be done, changed, innovated and created. there's no such thing as only one way to do something.

that's like saying Call of Duty would never work with doom and halo existing.

machinegames were the wrong studio for this, even though they make great games. I don't think anyone really want Call of Indy

but i digress

 

[Leo9]

FPS is only good for shooting. Anything athletic where you need to be aware of the physical body of the protagonist in space is handicapped by 1st person view. So this will be less athletic than the 21 year old game Emperor's Tomb.

Mirror's Edge was great.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Mirror's Edge was great.

It was. Still there was a certain disconnect between us, our limbs and the environment.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Don’t like it, don’t play it. Quit whining.

LOL

 

[Godot25]

i disagree because that means the developer lacks the talent to do so. anything can be done, changed, innovated and created. there's no such thing as only one way to do something.

that's like saying Call of Duty would never work with doom and halo existing.

machinegames were the wrong studio for this, even though they make great games. I don't think anyone really want Call of Indy

but i digress

So let me get this straight.

You are saying that because MachineGames didn't make Indy a 3rd person action adventure, they lack a talent? What? Decision about camera perspective has nothing to do with talent of the studio. It's a choice. They felt that making Indy from first-person was a better choice and they went for it.

Pretending like in first-person gaming space there is not space for innovation is pretty strange to me. Like camera perspective has anything to do with potential for innovation in game mechanics and gameplay.

And deciding if MachineGames was wrong studio to do this game will be better suited after release of the game. But if you want to give the game judgement after reveal, then go for it. It's a dumb move in my opinion, but whatever.

 

[Vindicator]

Call of Indy: Archaeological Warfare

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Mirror's Edge was great.

For a broad gamer it was confusing AF and the fights were painful. Hence it flopped despite the pristine visuals.

I mean The Darkness 1 was a great game, but hell it was so confusing for an FPS title (especially the tentacle mechanics).

 

[Team Andromeda]

FPS game and Third person cut scenes are a limiting factor for narrative AND gameplay

Utter tosh. Riddick showed how it could be done and this is coming from the same team. The game looks amazing.

 

[StueyDuck]

So let me get this straight.

You are saying that because MachineGames didn't make Indy a 3rd person action adventure, they lack a talent? What? Decision about camera perspective has nothing to do with talent of the studio. It's a choice. They felt that making Indy from first-person was a better choice and they went for it.

Pretending like in first-person gaming space there is not space for innovation is pretty strange to me. Like camera perspective has anything to do with potential for innovation in game mechanics and gameplay.

And deciding if MachineGames was wrong studio to do this game will be better suited after release of the game. But if you want to give the game judgement after reveal, then go for it. It's a dumb move in my opinion, but whatever.

im saying by your own logic a studio that can't make something in the same genre as another game and make it different probably lacks the talent yes. You are proclaiming that it is impossible for machine games to make a 3rd person game and not make it, copy/paste the exact same as uncharted. which is just nonsense

we don't know with MachineGames Indy because they decided to just make another wolfenstein game.

why are you pretending like we haven't seen the first person gameplay already and that it doesn't already look entirely like Wolfenstein with a new skin? what FPS innovation did you see in that gameplay? the whip? it's just a grapple mechanic that we've seen in plenty other titles already from Grappling hooks to tetherbeams. I see more potential for an indy game that's an adventure game than just another FPS, and so do many others.

there's nothing dumb with people hoping an indy game would be an indy game and a bit more ambitious.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

FPS is only good for shooting. Anything athletic where you need to be aware of the physical body of the protagonist in space is handicapped by 1st person view. So this will be less athletic than the 21 year old game Emperor's Tomb.

Mirrors Edge was pretty popular

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Mirrors Edge was pretty popular

Both of them flopped despite EAs solid push behind the first one

 

[Ozzie666]

You got me Xbox, I’ll sub for a month to enjoy Indiana Jones. Mixed feelings so far but hopeful.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Both of them flopped despite EAs solid push behind the first one

Well they were still acclaimed for their 1st person parkour / athletics. Indian Jones is a bigger IP, wider appeal

 

[nkarafo]

Pass.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Mirrors Edge was pretty popular

Dying Light 1 has 300k reviews on Steam (overwhelmingly positive as well). It’s extremely popular and first person movement was excellent in that game.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Well they were still acclaimed for their 1st person parkour / athletics. Indian Jones is a bigger IP, wider appeal

I love how you ignore jarring combat am shooting that basically was half of the game as the main reason behind it’s demise.

If you want good examples, try Dying Light (but it’s predominantly melee).

 

[bbeach123]

I do really hope they can do the climbing mechanic like doom eternal (not that extreme ) or uncharted 4 grappling hook .

 

[Fenix34]

No Harrison Ford as voice over?

 

[PectacularOz]

Looked amazing, good to see they're not just making a straight-up shooter like Wolfenstein.

I expect it's going to be more shooter than they're showing here.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

I love how you ignore jarring combat am shooting that basically was half of the game as the main reason behind it’s demise.

If you want good examples, try Dying Light (but it’s predominantly melee).

I’m not ignoring anything, the game isn’t out yet. Why so keen to shit on it?

Anyway, you criticised the athletics, so I showed an example of good 1person athletics, then you provided your own good example of good 1 person melee combat. So what are you complaining about?

 

[Majormaxxx]

Mirrors Edge was pretty popular

Mirror's Edge was great - one of the reasons I got a 360. Still it was like 5% off. Especially in hand to hand combat, interacting with the world etc.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Mirror's Edge was great - one of the reasons I got a 360. Still it was like 5% off. Especially in hand to hand combat, interacting with the world etc.

Condemned was good 1st person melee. Maybe they got the best of both?

 

[thief183]

I had zero expectations... now I'm in day 1. It look awesome to me, it could only be better if it was VR.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

No Harrison Ford as voice over?

This supposed to be a younger version of Indiana Jones. Ford is in his 80s.

 

[intheinbetween]

This supposed to be a younger version of Indiana Jones. Ford is in his 80s.

For cases like this AI can definitely help, but it's still too soon not from the technical side but from the legal one

 

[Stooky]

meeeh i would be down for a really good uncharted clone with better puzzles and exploration like og tomb raider.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

meeeh i would be down for a really good uncharted clone with better puzzles and exploration like og tomb raider.

That's literally what this seems to be. They said it's puzzle heavy and a lot of it is options = exploration. What more do you want? Another 3rd person mass-murderer simulator posing as an adventure game?

 

[SmurfMustard]

Looks great to me. Don't really mind the first person view. MachineGames have proven that they know what they are doing.
Troy Baker seems to do a really good job as a younger Indy.
Can't wait to play.

 

[Astray]

I'm trying to understand what you mean by distinct and characterful.

Is it okay to understand you mean not-smooth and a little bit janky?

Hugo's animations are also very smooth.

Lol this is the guy who claimed RDR2 was jank compared to Starfield.

You are wasting your time lmao.

 

[crackajack]

I liked what Machinegames did with Wolfenstein, making stealthy sections in something I would have expected to be a dumb action game, which seems to be a playstyle here as well, and it is kinda in the similar alternate history and time period too, which they handled quite well. I am not sure if I want Todd Howard involved though.

 

[Redneckerz]

Well, that's how the people who hired him think, and half of why they did. It's all in their handbook.

Exactly! That's why we assume these things, because thats how the people who hired him think. I am glad we can all deduce this from looks and a few lines of words. We know everything about this entity.

No, the looks don't "make or break" it for me, what he said is what gives me concern.

Whoa whoa whoa, wait a minute there. Are you using nuance? You know that this doesn't concern most users, right? Its about the looks. Don't come here telling me its their words that concern you. Almost as if their look is an amplification of things.

Especially when it concerns an IP that's set in time period in which it's set. It's not set in "modern times", why does the narrative need to be altered for "modern audiences".
It's just very typical of what someone that looks like that would say.

And there you have it.

But alright, ill go along. You know what the modern audience bit is? The fact it has a female protag, much like the dreaded Dial of Destiny. So we can see different perspectives.

Better wait till its in the bargain bin or there is an Ultimate Edition that allows you to play Indy from third person only.

 

[Majormaxxx]

I looked up the game director - he is directly responsible for Youngblood and Wolf 2. So I expect cringe story and dialogue, as well as acting from Baker. We also saw the weirdoes in their office.

Oh well. I replayed Emperor's Tomb last year and will likely replay Fate of Atlantis and Last Crusade next.

 

[SkylineRKR]

For a broad gamer it was confusing AF and the fights were painful. Hence it flopped despite the pristine visuals.

I mean The Darkness 1 was a great game, but hell it was so confusing for an FPS title (especially the tentacle mechanics).

Mirrors Edge had to click first. And anything involving actual combat I didn't like. ME parkour worked so well because it got away with a very minimalistic art direction with plain red objects being your path.

 

[Clintizzle]

 

[Toots]

Is it VR ?
Looks pretty lame :/

 

[Zathalus]

 

[Topher]

Sure, some of the negativity is likely coming from legitimate criticism, things such as animation quality for one, but some of the posts in this thread are obviously (hilariously so) motivated by console warring.

Which describes just about every thread where a first party game is concerned.

 

[Heisenberg007]

What more do you want? Another 3rd person mass-murderer simulator posing as an adventure game?

Another 93-MC must-play universally acclaimed GOTY winner adventure game ... like the "3rd person mass-murderer simulator" you were probably referring to.

 

[Zathalus]

Which describes just about every thread where a first party game is concerned.

Correct, so a lot of the criticism for this game on this forum is likely console warring. Especially given how hostile it has become here for anything Xbox related. Obviously I'm not suggesting that any criticism is unwarranted, just that quite a bit of it is suspect.

The same goes for any Sony exclusives as well, but the forum is quite a bit more pro Sony so you do see less of it. At least here, Twitter is a cesspool as always.

 

[BlackTron]

Exactly! That's why we assume these things, because thats how the people who hired him think. I am glad we can all deduce this from looks and a few lines of words. We know everything about this entity.

I already pretty much covered the entirety of this by saying "correlation without causation", from which you surmised "we can assume", which you then leapt to "we know everything about this entity".

First, these developers actually do have handbooks and advisors on this stuff, with the intended goal being to reflect ideologies in games and virtue signal in front of a camera. This isn't just known from passive observation, it's known from factual information of leaked documents.

Despite this, it is still correlation without causation to assume that, in this one specific instance, everything will go this way. It's simply an informed prediction based on known facts, history and observable patterns. Any pattern can have a break in it, that does not keep you from recognizing the pattern.

For example, if the first game in a franchise is great, but then the director leaves and the next 2 are duds, and then returns as director and 4 is great again. There is an observable pattern to the outside viewer that if the director leaves for #5, it will be in trouble. It's REALLY correlation without causation: the past games may have had other issues beyond the change of director, and the new game may the best of all without him. We simply don't know, we just make assumptions and predictions based on what we have, which is what we do EVERY SINGLE TIME for everything in life. So if the past 50 games that made you roll your eyes had a team of blue-haired people, then blue hair starts to set off alarm bells.

To think I used to like blue hair. Goth/punk girls! Sometimes good things get ruined because they're associated with something negative. Look at Hitler's mustache. I'm pretty sure not everyone with that look was a dictator but it got ruined anyway.

 

[kruis]

Uh, no?

It would look 10 times better with something like Batman melee combat mixed with Spider-Man levels of animation quality / finishers.

Instead we get first person boring looking whip mechanics that will get old fast and be boring and slow

You can’t do frenetic, fluid, and choreographed fighting well in first person at all. This is a huge step down and a big missed opportunity

Just look at that action sequence from Uncharted 4. The exhilaration of such a moment would be impossible to recreate using 1st person perspective. A 3rd person view is the closest you can get to the feeling you're playing an interactive movie. That's what you would want from a game based on the three classic Indy movies - but you're going to get a completely different experience in a first person perspective. It's the dumbest decision ever.

 

[Ivan]

I would love third person, but with advanced physics and control we haven't seen before.

Make it weighty and make your decisions count.

Something like the first Tomb Raider in 1996 (the effect, not actual controls).

And it should be much more on the adventure side, shooter would just make it stupid and like everything else.

That copy/paste Wolfenstein first person knife throwing looked really bad.

 

[kruis]

Sure, some of the negativity is likely coming from legitimate criticism, things such as animation quality for one, but some of the posts in this thread are obviously (hilariously so) motivated by console warring.

Console warring? Didn't we hear from Sateh Nutella that Microsoft's games will be released for every platform under the sun?

 

[Redneckerz]

I already pretty much covered the entirety of this by saying "correlation without causation", from which you surmised "we can assume", which you then leapt to "we know everything about this entity".

I was, frankly, being sarcastic when i said ''We know everything about this entity'' because that is the gammut of replies when faced with this rainbow person.

First, these developers actually do have handbooks and advisors on this stuff, with the intended goal being to reflect ideologies in games and virtue signal in front of a camera. This isn't just known from passive observation, it's known from factual information of leaked documents.

Despite this, it is still correlation without causation to assume that, in this one specific instance, everything will go this way. It's simply an informed prediction based on known facts, history and observable patterns. Any pattern can have a break in it, that does not keep you from recognizing the pattern.

Then your conclusion should be simple - Don't buy the game or wait for the bargain bin. Problem solved.

Or if that isn't enough - Raise a union and battle this forced inclusion in the industry. Because this clearly is enough of a problem to people that it makes or breaks a purchase (Then again anything these days makes or breaks a purchase so this isn't surprising.)

For example, if the first game in a franchise is great, but then the director leaves and the next 2 are duds, and then returns as director and 4 is great again. There is an observable pattern to the outside viewer that if the director leaves for #5, it will be in trouble. It's REALLY correlation without causation: the past games may have had other issues beyond the change of director, and the new game may the best of all without him. We simply don't know, we just make assumptions and predictions based on what we have, which is what we do EVERY SINGLE TIME for everything in life. So if the past 50 games that made you roll your eyes had a team of blue-haired people, then blue hair starts to set off alarm bells.

But it is a good thing we have Machinegames prior offerings on the table - For all we know, blue-hair kid worked on those too. Weren't that bad a bunch of games, weren't they?

That's the thing - We see this kid and we think the worst, i look at the prior offerings of the studio and think ''Well, this may actually work.''. I judge the game on the final quality of its work.

 

[nemiroff]

This game already looks a lot better and with a more "Indiana Jones / Tomb Raider" feel/atmosphere (and also contemporary) than I feared it would. Bonus. Good times.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Another 93-MC must-play universally acclaimed GOTY winner adventure game ... like the "3rd person mass-murderer simulator" you were probably referring to.

So many assumptions in one sentence! Only low intelligence individuals are fixated about Metacritic scores. We will know what people who actually play games think about this new Indiana Jones as it's releasing on Steam.

I just realized. Are you the same guy who were judging the game based on some Mortal Kombat cutscene? Fucking lol, man. Fucking lol.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Imagine complaining that it's not 3rd person cinematic experience ala Sony bubblegum

You do know third person games have existed before Sony right? Third person Indiana Jones games have existed before Uncharted.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I looked up the game director - he is directly responsible for Youngblood and Wolf 2. So I expect cringe story and dialogue, as well as acting from Baker. We also saw the weirdoes in their office.

Oh well. I replayed Emperor's Tomb last year and will likely replay Fate of Atlantis and Last Crusade next.

Yeah in retrospect I only really liked TNO.

In TNC BJ felt so fucking weak and emo. Narrative wise it made sense, but I didn't enjoy it. And the level design took a hit as well.

 

[CRAIG667]

1st person? WTF? Why is so hard for MS to make a pure 3rd person SP game? Why?

Gears of war?
Hellblade?