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[sublimit]

saying the main character's name wrong, is to people looking to discredit a bad review a lot like handing a gun to someone who wants to shoot you, and then turning your back to them. it doesn't invalidate anything you say, but it makes it incredibly easy not to take you seriously.

how do you fuck up something like that?

It's an American thing.From what i heard the name Lara is Laura there.Even someone from the developers themselves once called her Laura (it was Karl Stewart).

It's a really lame excuse for the fanboys to bash the reviewer.

 

[Andrew.]

Ooh oh shit..

 

[OriginofHysteria]

The reviewer explains his criticisms fluently, and articulately. He isn't hyperbolic at all and gives credit where it's due.

The one thing that gets me in the review is his criticism of feeling remorse for killing a guy and then five minutes later is killing hordes of people and I get that some people might not like that. I can see how people might want it to be more of a character growth and not be a killing machine in a span of 5 mins but for some reason I don't see that working in a video game, especially when its an action/adventure video game.

Far Cry 3 had the same thing, where I stabbed a guy in defense and was all "oh boo hoo im sorry" to shooting boars and killing pirates within the next mission and I didn't mind that because what else is there to do in the game when the situation comes where you're going to have to kill people?

 

[plagiarize]

It's an American thing.From what i heard the name Lara is Laura there.Even someone from the developers themselves once called her Laura (it was Karl Stewart).

It's a really lame excuse for the fanboys to bash the reviewer.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just telling you that he handed them something with which they could easily discredit his review with in their own eyes. Getting the name of the main character of the game wrong (and saying it repeatedly, each time which will be seen as a separate blunder) isn't very professional.

 

[sleepykyo]

Ooh oh shit..

Doesn't posting pictures of her every time the thread gets heated just provide positive reinforcement?

 

[Andrew.]

I'm just making people happy here.

The pictures certainly get me smilin'.

 

[Jedi2016]

The one thing that gets me in the review is his criticism of feeling remorse for killing a guy and then five minutes later is killing hordes of people and I get that some people might not like that. I can see how people might want it to be more of a character growth and not be a killing machine in a span of 5 mins but for some reason I don't see that working in a video game, especially when its an action/adventure video game.

Far Cry 3 had the same thing, where I stabbed a guy in defense and was all "oh boo hoo im sorry" to shooting boars and killing pirates within the next mission and I didn't mind that because what else is there to do in the game when the situation comes where you're going to have to kill people?

There really isn't any way to do it in a game. I don't much care for it, either, but it is what it is.

I just say "Well, the first is always the hardest" and leave it at that.

 

[AllBusinessJr]

Just play the damn thing. Then come back and offer your thoughts without slamming other people down, regardless if it's postive or negative.

I wish everyone took this stance. Sure, it is getting very good reviews, but that hasn't stopped people from pre-judging games in the past. This game seems to have garnered more vitriol around here than any other title in recent memory. Given the circumstances, I can understand why some have gloated about the positive reviews, but we should ALL wait to give our on impressions after we've sunk our teeth into the title.

The biggest takeaway (for me) is that I think we should be happy that a developer/publisher was confident enough in its product to drop the review embargo over a week before release. Good, bad, or indifferent, this is a pro-consumer practice that should be applauded - unless you're so cynical that you swear that this upper-80s metacritic score was "bought"...

 

[nbthedude]

I'm just making people happy here.

The pictures certainly get me smilin'.

It's just kind of gross to me personally. It's like having a conversation and someone walks in the room wanking to some porn. People here are posting from the internet. I'm pretty sure they know where to find scantily clad pics of women if they want.

 

[MormaPope]

The one thing that gets me in the review is his criticism of feeling remorse for killing a guy and then five minutes later is killing hordes of people and I get that some people might not like that. I can see how people might want it to be more of a character growth and not be a killing machine in a span of 5 mins but for some reason I don't see that working in a video game, especially when its an action/adventure video game.

Far Cry 3 had the same thing, where I stabbed a guy in defense and was all "oh boo hoo im sorry" to shooting boars and killing pirates within the next mission and I didn't mind that because what else is there to do in the game when the situation comes where you're going to have to kill people?

Thing is Far Cry 3 didn't heavily advertise the protagonist as a helpless dude whose extremely vulnerable, they simply advertised that he was a yuppy kid that got mixed up in some crazy shit. Plus he got the zany tatttau that made him part of a warrior clan.

Far Cry 3 could've done it better, but the focus in Far Cry 3 isn't on the story at all.

 

[Lime]

fair enough. i don't see it being a worrying trend though, or something new for the Tomb Raider series, which was criticised for adding too much action to it's very first sequel back in 1997.

the story was praised in its debut for being cinematic. trying to be more cinematic may make the game seem more like others here in 2013, but again, it's nothing new for the franchise.

the franchise hasn't been innovative since 1996, but that hasn't stopped a lot of those sequels from being good. when it aped Sands of Time platforming with Legend, for example... that made it a better game.

if I saw this as a worrying trend, as you may do, then I might be concerned by it, but gaming is only creatively stifled if you look at games which have budgets in multi millions... and those are always going to have to go after sales.

True, I don't disagree with that.

By TR 4, the series was basically an action game with hordes of enemies in industrial landscapes. Crystal Dynamics dialed the series back but they modernized other aspects, like the tedious jump backs from the edge of ledges. I don't recall of people called that the "dumbing down" of Tomb Raider at the time, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Then again, Core had trampled the series into the ground so much by that point that maybe they were just happy to see someone else take the reigns. I know I was.

My only point is that I really really get suspicious when any game becomes "evidence" in the crusade against the "dumbing down" of games. It's like everything that happened to the series previously gets crammed into this procrustean narrative of the trajectory of modern game design. It rings false to me and it is my first sign that people aren't even talking about the game itself but abstracting to some meta-narative they have developed about the industry as a whole. Hey, the original Tomb Raider series became more and more "action oriented." was that also proof of the dumbing down of games back in 1999? Lobbying some meta-narrative of the direction of the game industry on any one particular game is not a fair thing to do and it often results in a highly skewed picture of reality.

The original TR games undoubted borrowed a lot from games that came before them too. It borrowed heavily from Prince of Persia. It stole lock on mechanics from other games and made us all wish it would have stolen cameras from Legend of Zelda. Borrowing aspects of other games is not something new to the series. Nor is it automatically proof in favor of some meta-narrative about the homogenization of videogames. It is how it incorporates the elements it borrows that matters.

I'm not saying that the earlier history of Tomb Raider is some kind of perfect holy grail - far from it. As plagiarize and you perfectly put it, it is a mainstream series that covered many of its contemporary genres, such as PoP and Mario64. And this could probably be argued in many other cases of the recent examples of games changing direction to have a broader appeal.

However, I think you're basing too much of your "shoe-horning of this example into a meta-narrative of the games industry becoming homogeneous" claim on how the history of a series has devolved. Whether or not Hitman was once Game B and turned into Game A, or if Tomb Raider was once Game C and turned into Game A does not counter-argue that developers and publishers are more risk-averse than ever and larger budgets demand extremely safe game design.

What I am trying to get at is that mainstream games have become bigger, budgets are bigger, risks are much higher, tried-and-true methods are preferred rather than experimentation, game marketing is carefully planned and targeted towards predictable demographics, developers and so on. Many industry persons and studios have corroborated this trend.

As for the narrative disconnect, I don't mind having that discussion and I think it is an interesting one. But I also think it is a criticism that can be lobbied at virtually 80% of the games on the market if not more. It seems highly disingenuous to me to cherry pick this as the game that deserves to be beaten up on that principle. I also don't see how this wasn't also a problem with every previous TR game. Lara was always a mass murderer from game one. Does it really matter in terms of narrative disonance whether we are talking about hundreds of people or a thousand?

I also think it's an interesting topic, but I don't think the fact that because "80%" of games employ this disconnect excuses its existence. If I encounter it, I'm going to call it out, no matter what game it is. Even if a series has a history of suffering from ludonarrative dissonance.

Moreover, there are nuances in the ludonarrative dissonance debate. Games that rely heavily on characterization, themes, or dramatic impact need to have a coherent game experience between the ludic and narrative aspects, whereas games with less emphasis on its narrative can more likely get away with a jarring disconnect between the two aspects. Thus the former type of games are much more open to criticism, while the latter is more excused.

 

[JohnsonUT]

I have watched a couple of reviews and have not seen any mention of the enemy AI. In the videos, Lara is standing up, slowly pulling her bow back and the enemies shoot erratically or charge strait at her. Is the AI as bad as it looks?

 

[Zaventem]

Cool.The game has pretty decent review scores.I guess the people angry at tomb raider will say the reviewers got paid off.

 

[sublimit]

The one thing that gets me in the review is his criticism of feeling remorse for killing a guy and then five minutes later is killing hordes of people and I get that some people might not like that. I can see how people might want it to be more of a character growth and not be a killing machine in a span of 5 mins but for some reason I don't see that working in a video game, especially when its an action/adventure video game.

The problem though is that this was supposed to be Crystal's main selling point for this game.It was supposed to be all about Lara's realistic growth to become the character she used to be.
Crystal called the old Lara "teflon" and "unrealistic" while this new version was advertised as a realistic and grounded version.

So if they failed at that what was then the true reason for the reboot? To transform the series into a cover shooter with tacked on multiplayer?

 

[Andrew.]

It's just kind of gross to me personally. It's like having a conversation and someone walks in the room wanking to some porn. People here are posting from the internet. I'm pretty sure they know where to find scantily clad pics of women if they want.

Thanks for making me spit out my beer. Gross pictures huh?

*shaking my damn head*

This place has recently gotten better and better by the day.

 

[Lime]

Thanks for making me spit out my beer. Gross pictures huh?

*shaking my damn head*

This place has recently gotten better and better by the day.

I think the problem with posting pictures of half-naked females in a thread on a game with a female lead on a forum focused on a medium with already-existing heavy gender-imbalanced problems, create a certain kind of atmosphere that might exclude or offend other people.

I.e. it motivates a certain type of boys-club mentality. Just trying to explain why some might not like it.

 

[Gbraga]

I guess they took more away from Alan Wake, like those stupid and experience-breaking collectible coffee thermoses.

They took the dodge as well, but that's good imo.

 

[OriginofHysteria]

The problem though is that this was supposed to be Crystal's main selling point for this game.It was supposed to be all about Lara's realistic growth to become the character she used to be.
Crystal called the old Lara "teflon" and "unrealistic" while this new version was advertised as a realistic and grounded version.

So if they failed at that what was then the true reason for the reboot? To transform the series into a cover shooter with tacked on multiplayer?

You can say that holds true when you look at the overall picture of the game but not so much when you look at how it passes in a time frame.

Really the only way system I can see to make that please everybody was to utilize the xp system better. But I won't really know until I actually play the game to make a comment on that but that's just an idea to be thrown out there.

 

[Harlequin]

Thanks for making me spit out my beer. Gross pictures huh?

*shaking my damn head*

This place has recently gotten better and better by the day.

Well, you have to remember that not everyone - even on a gaming forum - likes women that way. I for one don't and while I wouldn't call those pictures gross they certainly are somewhat annoying.

 

[-tetsuo-]

My boy got a review copy. He doesn't even play non fighting games. I'm gonna write that review for him!

 

[nbthedude]

True, I don't disagree with that.



I'm not saying that the earlier history of Tomb Raider is some kind of perfect holy grail - far from it. As plagiarize and you perfectly put it, it is a mainstream series that covered many of its contemporary genres, such as PoP and Mario64. And this could probably be argued in many other cases of the recent examples of games changing direction to have a broader appeal.

However, I think you're basing too much of your "shoe-horning of this example into a meta-narrative of the games industry becoming homogeneous" claim on how the history of a series has devolved. Whether or not Hitman was once Game B and turned into Game A, or if Tomb Raider was once Game C and turned into Game A does not counter-argue that developers and publishers are more risk-averse than ever and larger budgets demand extremely safe game design.

What I am trying to get at is that mainstream games have become bigger, budgets are bigger, risks are much higher, tried-and-true methods are preferred rather than experimentation, game marketing is carefully planned and targeted towards predictable demographics, developers and so on. Many industry persons and studios have corroborated this trend.

Yeah I recognize that as happening and it certainly concerns me, especially where the FPS genre is concerned. But I also have two thoughts about it:

1. "Risk-adverse" does not automatically mean dumb or bad design. Actually it can often mean the reverse. Even though I am a big fan of Dark Souls, I'm not sure I want to go back to the version of Tomb Raider that had me tediously lining up 15 jumps in a row and spending 10 minutes climbing while holding "left" on the controller only to fail to reach a save crystal and spend 20 minutes repeating those actions. Is removing that "jump back" and long distance between save crystals a way to avoid alienating a larger part of the audience? Absolutely, but in this case I see it as a win/win. That stuff that some more serious gamers were willing to put up with but I don't think it is what made those games interesting.

2. When you approach a game with a particular meta-narrative about the gaming industry in mind, it is pretty easy to find a way to see that game as a validation of the narrative you wish to find. So while I don't disagree with you that this development is real and a concern, I also am automatically suspicious when anyone's first conclusion is that a particular game is just another example of this process.

I also think it's an interesting topic, but I don't think the fact that because "80%" of games employ this disconnect excuses its existence. If I encounter it, I'm going to call it out, no matter what game it is. Even if a series has a history of suffering from ludonarrative dissonance.

Moreover, there are nuances in the ludonarrative dissonance debate. Games that rely heavily on characterization, themes, or dramatic impact need to have a coherent game experience between the ludic and narrative aspects, whereas games with less emphasis on its narrative can more likely get away with a jarring disconnect between the two aspects. Thus the former type of games are much more open to criticism, while the latter is more excused.

That's fine. I'm not against anybody bringing it to the surface, though, as I have said elsewhere it really doesn't bother me that much and never has. I often have a suspension of disbelief where this sort of thing kicks in where I kind of view the gameplay as symbolic of the types of things the character does rather than literal (or vice versa--the cinemas are there to set a symbolic tone or mood). I don't particularly care whether or not the two match up any more than I care that films jump around in time from one event to another rather than presenting a clear and consistent chronological perspective.

However, I think when the conversation of a particular game gets reduced to a discussion of this it really empties out the interesting specificity of the game we are discussing since it is a criticism that, as I said, can be lobbied at most games. I don't know about you, but I never played Tomb Raider for it's narrative consistencies or its nuanced character development. Nor do I know anybody that ever did. And that's fine to discuss it's failures in these regions, but if it overshadows all other conversation (as it did in that Machinima dude's review) then it not only does a disservice to the game, in my opinion, it just make the conversation kind of... reductionist and boring.

 

[Harlequin]

BTW: It seems like a lot of the reviewers who said that the challenge tomb puzzles were easy used Survival Instinct . So I wouldn't really take their word for it.

 

[Lime]

Good post, nbthedude. I especially like your suggestion on being cautious of avoiding the pitfall of shoehorning specific game examples into a meta-narrative on the devolution of the industry. That is one of the positive things (among several others, of course) that I will definitely take away from this thread.

However, I think when the conversation of a particular game gets reduced to a discussion of this it really empties out the interesting specificity of the game we are discussing since it is a criticism that, as I said, can be lobbied at most games. I don't know about you, but I never played Tomb Raider for it's narrative consistencies or its nuanced character development. Nor do I know anybody that ever did. And that's fine to discuss it's failures in these regions, but if it overshadows all other conversation (as it did in that Machinima dude's review) then it not only does a disservice to the game, in my opinion, it just make the conversation kind of... reductionist and boring.

I see your point, but the problem is that this game or at least what the developers have stated over and over again is the high emphasis on Lara as a character and her growth within the narrative. If the goal really is to provide a believable, coherent narrative with emotional/dramatic impact through this characterization, then this goal will fail entirely if Crystal Dynamics doesn't make sure that the gameplay reinforces or support this goal.

Basically, if what we know of the game didn't aim for a serious tone with characters intended to be empathetic for the player, then the ludonarrative dissonance wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately this isn't the case and we are left with a paradoxical incoherent game experience. On the bright side, let's be constructive and applaud CD for trying, I guess.

 

[SlasherJPC]

BTW: It seems like a lot of the reviewers who said that the challenge tomb puzzles were easy used Survival Instinct . So I wouldn't really take their word for it.

Yeah if you overuse this you won't have fun figuring stuff out or exploring as much. It's basically a walkthrough assistant.

 

[genjiZERO]

Of the various Tomb Raider my favourite is still the first. More than any that came after it it was so large and bleak. It felt like one gigantic cavern and you were left alone to figure out where to go and what to do. I also like that the fighting was space. I'd be interested in seeing how this new one compares. If it has that same quality I might pick it up.

 

[Dahbomb]

BTW: It seems like a lot of the reviewers who said that the challenge tomb puzzles were easy used Survival Instinct . So I wouldn't really take their word for it.

So the game gives you a cheat mode for puzzles?

 

[NullPointer]

Yeah if you overuse this you won't have fun figuring stuff out or exploring as much. It's basically a walkthrough assistant.

Can you disable the Survival Instinct tip from popping up on your screen?

I used the notebook in Uncharted because the damn icon was so in my face I just wanted to get those parts over with.

I don't even mind if its enabled by default, as long as I can disable it from the options. It's always a shame to see clutter ruin what would otherwise be a nice, clean, almost non-existent HUD.

 

[Lime]

On the note of the writer's job clashing with the designer's, (and thus creating a tension between these two creative domains) I was reminded of this interview with Béland from Ubisoft's Splinter Cell: Blacklist development studio:

"Our lead writer on Blacklist is Richard Dansky," Béland said. "When I called him, I said, 'Hey Richard, we're making Splinter Cell six, do you want to write it for us? And his first question was, 'Do I need to come up with a story that's gonna require Sam to take out 800 guys?' And I paused for a second and I said… 'This is sad, Richard, but I think so. We can talk about it, but I think at the end of the day… we want it to be more and more "ghost," [to have non-lethal options], but yeah, at the end of the day, it's just Sam Fisher and bad guys and maps, right?'

I could imagine Pratchett was faced with the same dilemma with Tomb Raider.

 

[SlasherJPC]

Can you disable the Survival Instinct tip from popping up on your screen?

I used the notebook in Uncharted because the damn icon was so in my face I just wanted to get those parts over with.

I'll try and find out tonight. That was annoying since it kept popping up.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

I didn't know fans didn't like Legend. That was the game that brought me back into Tomb Raider. Well I don't know if I should say brought me back since I had played them all up until that point....but Legend certainly made Tomb Raider fun again.

Legend was fine when it came out, it was something new and fresh. Lara's big comeback from grave after the awful AoD. However, once you replay it few times (especially if you play it after Anniversary and Underworld) you notice how short and easy the game is and how much shoot-outs there is.

The one thing that gets me in the review is his criticism of feeling remorse for killing a guy and then five minutes later is killing hordes of people and I get that some people might not like that. I can see how people might want it to be more of a character growth and not be a killing machine in a span of 5 mins but for some reason I don't see that working in a video game, especially when its an action/adventure video game.

There are two solutions to the problem:
1) don't even try to create an "emotional" cut-scene if you intend to make the main character brutally kill hundreds of people in the game

2) don't put so many human enemies if you want to concentrate on emotional development of your character;

And about the whole "it wouldn't work in a video game" - Anniversary managed to do the whole "first human killed" and the impact of it much better by having only one human character actually killed by Lara. All the other villains were either killed by monsters (Pierre), or killed each other in a fight (Kold and The Kid).

If they wanted to focus on the story and Lara's development they should do a similar thing in this game - make most enemies non-humans and make each fight with human enemy something special. But that would be boring by todays standards (covers are useless when you're fighting against wolves or other predators) so we end up with what we got in the final game - a sociopath Lara.

 

[Harlequin]

Legend was fine when it came out, it was something new and fresh. Lara's big comeback from grave after the awful AoD. However, once you replay it few times (especially if you play it after Anniversary and Underworld) you notice how short and easy the game is and how much shoot-outs there is.

If we're talking about the "true Tomb Raider experience" then Legend certainly wasn't fine. The level desig, atmosphere, platforming and puzzling didn't feel like TR at all. They weren't nearly as fun or challenging. Legend was a good game. But it wasn't a good TR game if you take Core's games as a standard for that. This reboot isn't either but it never claimed to be. With Legend it was always "we're going back to the roots of the franchise"...yeah, right. This one was announced as a reboot from the beginning.

Angel of Darkness is a fun game if you're playing the patched PC version and ignore Kurtis' controls and the combat (there is very little combat so that shouldn't be hard). It might have a lot of modern environments but the gameplay and level design are true to the original games. The story is great, too. Although there are some plotholes because of all the stuff they cut out before release. And the cutscenes and soundtrack are still amazing even by today's standards IMO. Best soundtrack in the series.

Man...I would've REALLY loved to have played Core's Anniversary Edition .

 

[The Praiseworthy]

As a diehard fan of the series since 1996... finished every game that titled TOMB RAIDER, I had my own worries about the game.

But after playing for few good hours.......... all I can say is, I'm very happy and pleased

 

[CoolS]

Just bought this on amazon because I was under the impression it would give me a Steam key for the preorder. That wasn't the case though.

Did I jump the gun or will they release keys in time?

 

[AgentOtaku]

Watching the Gamespot footage. Like, I still can't get over how solid this game looks visually. Just great all around
Just shows how much solid framerate, great art, neat camera work, and good animation can really take a lead over just flat out tech.

Scared that the PS3 version won't hold up though ;(

 

[~Kinggi~]

Well this thread has played out about how i expected lol. Anyways great reviews. Looking forward to playing this, sounds awesome.

 

[kuroshiki]

Just bought this on amazon because I was under the impression it would give me a Steam key for the preorder. That wasn't the case though.

Did I jump the gun or will they release keys in time?

Did you buy digital copy? If so you should have gotten the key.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

If we're talking about the "true Tomb Raider experience" then Legend certainly wasn't fine. The level desig, atmosphere, platforming and puzzling didn't feel like TR at all. They weren't nearly as fun or challenging. Legend was a good game. But it wasn't a good TR game if you take Core's games as a standard for that. This reboot isn't either but it never claimed to be. With Legend it was always "we're going back to the roots of the franchise"...yeah, right. This one was announced as a reboot from the beginning.

Angel of Darkness is a fun game if you're playing the patched PC version and ignore Kurtis' controls and the combat (there is very little combat so that shouldn't be hard). It might have a lot of modern environments but the gameplay and level design are true to the original games. The story is great, too. Although there are some plotholes because of all the stuff they cut out before release. And the cutscenes and soundtrack are still amazing even by today's standards IMO. Best soundtrack in the series.

Man...I would've REALLY loved to have played Core's Anniversary Edition .

I always figured the old ones were challenging because of how incredibly stupid the controls and the grid system were. I was more than happy to be done away with that shit. I welcomed Legend with open arms. Absolutely loved it and Anniversary.

 

[Derrick01]

As a diehard fan of the series since 1996... finished every game that titled TOMB RAIDER, I had my own worries about the game.

But after playing for few good hours.......... all I can say is, I'm very happy and pleased

You are like the anti-me though. I've never seen you criticize a game. Your damn name is the praiseworthy!

 

[nbthedude]

I always figured the old ones were challenging because of how incredibly stupid the controls and the grid system were. I was more than happy to be done away with that shit. I welcomed Legend with open arms. Absolutely loved it and Anniversary.

I totally agree. I put up with that crap at the time because I had to.

Actually now that I think of it, though I'm not sure I ever finished Aniversary (I did finish and love the other two Crystal D games). I think I picked it up in a Steam sale... I know what I'm re-installing tonight...

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Ooh oh shit..

Look guys, let's just make the entire |OT| nothing but GIFs and photos of Camilla. Seriously, straight up. I'm straight serious right now.

Caught bits and pieces of the video reviews. Game looks quite beautiful. And I'm really happy to hear that they pulled off a great story and character out of this.

 

[NullPointer]

All of these reviews and I'm still not sure whats positive, gameplay-wise. Lots of talk about graphics and combat though. Besides combat, what gameplay do these reviewers find rewarding?

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I've started watching The Final Hours series. Is Zach Levi in this game or something?

 

[Dead]

I've started watching The Final Hours series. Is Zach Levi in this game or something?

I think he's a multiplayer character or something?

 

[kaskade]

Well I just preordered from Amazon with the CAGROCKS code. 35 bucks is good enough for me.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

His facial hair in Final Hours 2 annoys me.

 

[sublimit]

I always figured the old ones were challenging because of how incredibly stupid the controls and the grid system were. I was more than happy to be done away with that shit. I welcomed Legend with open arms. Absolutely loved it and Anniversary.

I'm completely the opposite.I want to be in control of my games and not my game to play by itself.Especially when it comes to Tomb Raider.
The old games had precise controls and they always felt like i was in control.No automatic bullshit and no pointless QTEs.

Of course they required from you some time and devotion to master them which i knew that not everybody was patient enough to learn them.I had a friend who simply sucked at them and he wanted to rush through the levels.It's no surprise that when Legend came out he called me and said "now this is TR."But in truth i don't think this series was ever the right kind of game for him and for others who bashed the old games because they were never patient enough to master the controls.

Youtube is full of speedruns of people who gracefully play through the old games which proves how great the controls were in capable enough hands.The only problem was that the animations were slow but this doesn't have to do anything with the actual control system itself.

 

[Yopis]

Cool game got great scores. Have every Tomb Raider game disk on my shelf from the first release. Hope I am happy. Leaving this thread until game drops. Gotta take the negativity in small doses around here.

 

[Fracas]

Waiting on my graphics guy; OT is basically done.

Be nice, it's my first one! Will post as soon as he's ready. Relatively light OT.

 

[GeoramA]

Pre-ordered. Had a $25 GS coupon, so I figured what the hell.

 

[Uno Venova]

The QTE's look god awful, the combat looks fun enough, will rent.