-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Fighting Games Weekly | Dec 23-29 | I put my hands on this stick, you know it's real
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
If anything, be it FGW | RIP Nelson Reyes.
These thread titles are usually jokes and there's that whole RIP xx meme too so I don't know if we should even go there.
biosnake20
Member
I agree.
I think we should look at the good things, like they already got $10k in donations to help Nelson's family, so it should be something like
FGW | FGC 4 life
or
FGW | We <3 the FGC
Ragingnight
Member
fgc x mit
Why do you think so?
I respectfully disagree. I think Enzo's is better but I think the sentiment you're trying to convey is nice, maybe just not those examples.
Ok, I just think we should try to be positive and not just grieve, you know
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I'd prefer to use something else as the thread title and put a RIP Nelson message in the OP.
SolarPowered
Member
Sounds like ego stroking, but I get where you're coming from. Maybe something that doesn't put the focus on the nebulous thing that is the "FGC".
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I'm vetoing the remix in the thread title idea, but it be cool for an OP or something
/shouta
/banbeef
/shouta
/banbeef
lamest suggestions ever
Professor Beef
Banned
Those are the most generic titles ever. I say stick with RIP Nelson.
DryEyeRelief
Member
.la1n
Member
Yeah I think it would be better to have a message in the OP but not bring it into the weekly thread title.
Passive Assassin
Member
Where is the AGE promo?
Min is streaming
http://www.twitch.tv/min2012
Payday 2
Just enter AGEFanatiq for 15% off any order.
I'm embarrassed that came straight from memory :/
Don't do it, though.
Karsticles
Member
Sakura is like a flowchart Ken that works well.
Good games, and thanks for the lessons. I think I have improved some, since I won like four times as many games as the last time we played (i.e. like 4 wins total).
Anyway, what do I really need to work on? I swear I was trying to tech a lot of those throws, even preemptively. Should I stick with Oni?
I was in a phone call hence being all weird at the end there.
I'm the last person to ask what to do. Everybody has their own play style and I just like going in and doing stuff.
My only suggestion that I tell everybody when they ask that sort of question is to mix things up. If you keep doing the same things over and over it makes it easy for your opponent to have their way with you.
I'm the last person to ask what to do. Everybody has their own play style and I just like going in and doing stuff.
My only suggestion that I tell everybody when they ask that sort of question is to mix things up. If you keep doing the same things over and over it makes it easy for your opponent to have their way with you.
Karsticles
Member
I am having trouble understanding what Oni is supposed to be good at besides combos. My normals get beat a lot, my fireballs are weak, my speed is low, and it seems like my mixups aren't anything to write home about, while DP can't be FADCed. What am I missing?
CountBlack
Member
Damage is great, and he also has really good mixups.
His close normals aren't bad either. St.LK cancel is always good.
I kinda think with SF4 characters you run out of combos, mixups and setups pretty quickly, then it becomes all about matchups, then you notice new tricks you can do on anyone at a drip feed pace. Even with good characters they're good because of what everyone else can or can't do.
Forward + Fierce punch and demon palm are pretty abusable things. Very hard to react to, and forward + Fierce is so strong in some match ups.
This better not be in order because FChamp's Magneto embarrasses RayRay's Magneto.
Aight, Karsticles:
On you:
- Is there a reason why you often wouldn't Quick Rise/ Tech?
- You jump way too much in the mid range.
- Related note: pay close attention to your tendencies. Every time you stuffed one of my buttons on the ground with cr. MK - you jumped at me every time. You don't have sufficient frame advantage to do this. I anti-aired you every time in that reoccurring circumstance.
- If you're playing the long set with someone - commit to not doing things like Wakeup Ultra during Oki. At least, not very often. You learn little about my Oki mixups if you're using the blanket option of a high damage attack with invincible startup.
- Study the art of teching throws.
- Study the art of beating throw tech.
On Oni: I'm curious as to your motivation for playing Oni, specifically. I'm not sure he's the right character for you. You seem to desire playing a calculated zoning game, but I believe Oni excels at rushdown, with a need to take risks for big damage once he's in - similar to Viper. Viper has to take more risks in the neutral game, though, since she doesn't have the luxury of the kind of buttons Oni has.
His FBs don't reach across screen, have relatively large recovery, and are mostly negative on bock, with the exception of his EX variations. His FB game is similar to Evil Ryu, where they shine mostly at footsie range and can confirm into FADC combos.
Oni's not as risky as Viper in terms of getting in, because he has buttons like f. forward, f. Fierce, cr. MK etc. etc. He can play footsies and has an above average ground game typical of Shotos. Maybe once you become more familiar with the game and match ups, that will change how you approach the character. For now, your dedication to staying on the opposite side of the screen with FBs isn't ideal, imo.
- Learn better combos. Get your b. strong, b. fierce target combo variations down.
b. strong, b. fierce, xx LK Rakan Dantojin, FADC, b. strong, b. fierce, rh. Tatsu is a solid foundation for a punish combo with meter. Omit the 2nd half when the meter isn't present. Once you get that down, you can adjust it for a variety of circumstances with different options afterwards. Corner = EX Tatsu ender > DP or F. Roundhouse > Wakeup/corner pressure. Midscreen ender = LK Sekisei Jiraiken for prime wakeup position with your opponent right at your feet (think DP/throw bait for the average player). EX Rakan Dantojin > Ultra/other followups is a nice reset shenanigan for now, since most are still unfamiliar with Oni. This target combo can also be confirmed into from a low - cr. lk, st. lp > Target Combo.
- After Neutral Throw, mk Rakan Dantojin puts Oni in prime position for safe jump/ ambiguous crossup setups. You don't have to waste energy executing dashes.
- Remember you have a cross up. You never used it. Ambiguous j. MK on wakeup is much more consistent that trying to have me guess between Throw/No Throw!
- Remember that because this version of Oni can't FADC his DP > Oni gets jacked with meter at the end of the first round or second round. This opens up his EX burn tremendously, and makes him very interesting relative to the other Shotos.
On Oni vs. Viper:
- You don't want to charge a Fireball vs. Viper. I can get over them easily, in a variety of ways that lead to big damage and stun on Oni, and you can't cancel the charge.
- Obviously, learn to block crossup Burn Kick. If you can't block the CU, Viper never has to vary her setups, and can run a mindless train on you. A successfully blocked CU BK, is negative on block, unless meaty. It also has the psychological benefit of causing a Dear in the Headlights effect, since 95% of players still don't know how to block the move well despite the character being around since Vanilla (think of Powershielding a laser from Falco in Melee). Mind that, because it's a great way to regain momentum.
Some tips on blocking CU BK: If you see flashing lights in a block string: be ready to block a CU BK. If she's whiffing normals close to your corpse on oki like st. lk, or simply walking into it - get ready to block CU BK (you were getting better at blocking it towards the end for sure). But don't be so stressed about the CU that you forget about her other, more fundamental options like throw/CH setup.
Most characters can get under BK with a low profile crouching move. For Shotos this is cr. mk. This helps a lot and, again, can cause that Dear in the Headlights effect I mentioned earlier. Viper's counter to this will be a non-crossup BK that will descend on the attack. Be ready for that adjustment next time we play.
- Regular Seismo > EX Seismo is a true block string. You cannot jump out of this. Be mindful of blocking a Seismo when Viper has meter.
That's all I got for now. If you want I can edit more in assuming it comes to me.
On you:
- Is there a reason why you often wouldn't Quick Rise/ Tech?
- You jump way too much in the mid range.
- Related note: pay close attention to your tendencies. Every time you stuffed one of my buttons on the ground with cr. MK - you jumped at me every time. You don't have sufficient frame advantage to do this. I anti-aired you every time in that reoccurring circumstance.
- If you're playing the long set with someone - commit to not doing things like Wakeup Ultra during Oki. At least, not very often. You learn little about my Oki mixups if you're using the blanket option of a high damage attack with invincible startup.
- Study the art of teching throws.
- Study the art of beating throw tech.
On Oni: I'm curious as to your motivation for playing Oni, specifically. I'm not sure he's the right character for you. You seem to desire playing a calculated zoning game, but I believe Oni excels at rushdown, with a need to take risks for big damage once he's in - similar to Viper. Viper has to take more risks in the neutral game, though, since she doesn't have the luxury of the kind of buttons Oni has.
His FBs don't reach across screen, have relatively large recovery, and are mostly negative on bock, with the exception of his EX variations. His FB game is similar to Evil Ryu, where they shine mostly at footsie range and can confirm into FADC combos.
Oni's not as risky as Viper in terms of getting in, because he has buttons like f. forward, f. Fierce, cr. MK etc. etc. He can play footsies and has an above average ground game typical of Shotos. Maybe once you become more familiar with the game and match ups, that will change how you approach the character. For now, your dedication to staying on the opposite side of the screen with FBs isn't ideal, imo.
- Learn better combos. Get your b. strong, b. fierce target combo variations down.
b. strong, b. fierce, xx LK Rakan Dantojin, FADC, b. strong, b. fierce, rh. Tatsu is a solid foundation for a punish combo with meter. Omit the 2nd half when the meter isn't present. Once you get that down, you can adjust it for a variety of circumstances with different options afterwards. Corner = EX Tatsu ender > DP or F. Roundhouse > Wakeup/corner pressure. Midscreen ender = LK Sekisei Jiraiken for prime wakeup position with your opponent right at your feet (think DP/throw bait for the average player). EX Rakan Dantojin > Ultra/other followups is a nice reset shenanigan for now, since most are still unfamiliar with Oni. This target combo can also be confirmed into from a low - cr. lk, st. lp > Target Combo.
- After Neutral Throw, mk Rakan Dantojin puts Oni in prime position for safe jump/ ambiguous crossup setups. You don't have to waste energy executing dashes.
- Remember you have a cross up. You never used it. Ambiguous j. MK on wakeup is much more consistent that trying to have me guess between Throw/No Throw!
- Remember that because this version of Oni can't FADC his DP > Oni gets jacked with meter at the end of the first round or second round. This opens up his EX burn tremendously, and makes him very interesting relative to the other Shotos.
On Oni vs. Viper:
- You don't want to charge a Fireball vs. Viper. I can get over them easily, in a variety of ways that lead to big damage and stun on Oni, and you can't cancel the charge.
- Obviously, learn to block crossup Burn Kick. If you can't block the CU, Viper never has to vary her setups, and can run a mindless train on you. A successfully blocked CU BK, is negative on block, unless meaty. It also has the psychological benefit of causing a Dear in the Headlights effect, since 95% of players still don't know how to block the move well despite the character being around since Vanilla (think of Powershielding a laser from Falco in Melee). Mind that, because it's a great way to regain momentum.
Some tips on blocking CU BK: If you see flashing lights in a block string: be ready to block a CU BK. If she's whiffing normals close to your corpse on oki like st. lk, or simply walking into it - get ready to block CU BK (you were getting better at blocking it towards the end for sure). But don't be so stressed about the CU that you forget about her other, more fundamental options like throw/CH setup.
Most characters can get under BK with a low profile crouching move. For Shotos this is cr. mk. This helps a lot and, again, can cause that Dear in the Headlights effect I mentioned earlier. Viper's counter to this will be a non-crossup BK that will descend on the attack. Be ready for that adjustment next time we play.
- Regular Seismo > EX Seismo is a true block string. You cannot jump out of this. Be mindful of blocking a Seismo when Viper has meter.
That's all I got for now. If you want I can edit more in assuming it comes to me.
Regarding stuff like this, and raising one's overall understanding of ground game, the footsies handbook is required reading.
http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702
It's quite in-depth but an excellent resource and breakdown that's useful even for very good players. I don't see this page recommended often enough tbh.
This is kinda crazy. Why is it going for textbook prices? Shouldn't it just be a small/University press softcover or something? It's 172 pages.
Thanks for this reminder. I remember reading it many years ago, but it's more pertinent to me now, than ever.
How so? They both have godlike movement but FChamp doesn't have his team optimized for Magneto and he leans on the crutch of missiles.
Ray Ray has better confirms, more optimized combos, and the majority of players say that Ray Rays Magneto is the beat they've played.
Champ just has a better team and is a better player but let's not use hyperbole and say that his Magneto "embarrasses" Ray Rays.
This is a good suggestion.
The only reason I'm considering putting it in the thread title as a good idea is because of the charity event next week.
This shouldn't be a big deal because who cares about a thread title but I just don't want it to be disrespectful, that's all.
Stabby McSter
Member
I'd just drop the capitals on "in peace", though. Either use the acronym or the complete expression, correctly written.
But yeah, I'm also to keep it as simple as possible.
So, to lighten the mood a bit: any good stream going on?
irfaanator
Banned
I do think at least something should be done to honor remix. How you want to do it is up to you enzo.
RockTurtle
Member
does anyone have that link to DAIGO teaching people how to play on stick?
Heck, people might start playing a bit smarter if that ever happened. I'd do it differently though. Have a model where you can play 5-10 matches max a day due to your level (rises through wins/losses or whatever) but once you run out of match points to use, you can't play anymore. The only way to gain more is by winning while you have match points to keep them. This would obviously deter nearly everyone to play the damn game online...
So, basically, Tekken Revolution.