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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 2. Haswell = #IntelnoTIM, but free online. READ THE OP.
- Thread starter Hazaro
- Start date
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its ok
cormack12
Gold Member
Cheers. What's the differential on the GPU's though? If I opt for the 660 will it have less legs than the MSI? For example will it start struggling 18 months earlier or something?
What sort of time will I get out of those cards for playing the latest and greatest @ 1080/60 w/ high settings? 2 Years you reckon?
Hard to call that question for any GPU really, it's a matter of wait and see. This is the rough performance difference between the three cards in question
If it were me I'd maybe look at the 7870 over the 660. It's a bit quicker, has a wider memory bus to make full use of its VRAM and it overclocks well.
The 760 will last you longer there is no doubt but overclocking a 7870 will yield quite impressive results. If you were going out to buy a 760 this is the cheapest good one to look at and it's from ASUS http://www.dabs.com/products/asus-g...4_1388578428_34db1f646d2f96baeb96dd78830887c5
It's your call whether the extra price difference justifies the performance. Both the 7870 and 760 are good cards, it just depends on how much you wish to spend.
Latest news is still saying March/April and maybe even sooner.
http://www.itworld.com/hardware/397985/nvidias-next-generation-gpus-coming-sooner-expected
Demon Lizardman
Banned
Hey Kharma, what if I wanted to get the 780 video card? What else should I get to make sure I don't bottleneck it?
jfoul
Member
Oh man, I hope so. I'm running a Geforce GTS 450 that I had laying around with my new i7 4770K build.
Demon Lizardman
Banned
Or maybe I should wait for this... I do want my PC to run games like Dying Light.
Depends on what one uses it for yes? The 8350 would absolutely spank everything Intel offers short of the i7 3770k if like me, you're running heavily multithreaded apps. Not so ideal for a game like skyrim, I agree but it's definitely not shite for sub-$200.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Seems unlikely to me, too many questions.
And if it is that soon it probably isn't 20nm, so we'd probably be looking at more $1000 video cards just to push the performance boundary slightly further at 28nm.
Been thinking it over and I might go ahead and bite on a 760 if I could sell the AC4/SC voucher for enough to bring the card down to $200 or so. Considering a Gigabyte, EVGA, and maybe MSI right now.
Also worth asking, the 760 is not stupid like my 5850 that doesn't support both DVI ports plus the HDMI port at the same time? It has clocks for all three? Because I need all of them at once, and using Displayport adapters has been a pain in the ass because they never last very long.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
A good 3770k or 4770k. These are very close in price so I would get a 4770k for 10 dollars more. In my experiences a good CPU is the pillar for avoiding bottlenecks for prolonged times. Similar to how I invested in a 3930k and know for fact it will be a viable CPU for years. I still intend to upgrade to Haswell-E but it's not because the rig I have now is some slouch.
Unless you don't want to invest in a new MB and all that. If you have some of the components like the RAM, DVD, OS, SSD/HDD, then you should just need a new MB/CPU and maybe a case and PSU if you want to go further.
Maxwell is an interesting play since they seem like they might be enthusiast parts. I'm not ready to accept another set of 1k cards so I hope they get the performance but for a lower price than at least the 780ti.
So useful for a very small number of people then.
I'll believe it when I see it.
i have a question about power supplies too, right now i have an i5-2500k, gtx 560 ti and a 550 bronze power supply (this one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ILWY9G/) and I want to upgrade to either a 760 or the 770 if i could do it without needing a new powersupply but on the page for the 770 it has a 660 power supply listed as the minimum recommended and on the newegg page it lists a minimum of 42 amps on 12 volt but mine only has 38
You've plenty of power. Recommended power is there just to cover their arses with some of the cheap PSUs that are out there and can't output what they claim.
Like... myself.
Great.
Not so useful for the majority of people and their needs though. If games were properly n threaded then the FX range would be a pretty good buy but they're not so the FX processors can't be recommended in most situations.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Even though I want to see AMD be more competitive there is no doubt that Intel spanks them up and down unless you start comparing AMD's higher end parts with Intel's mid-low end range. I still recommend an 8350 a lot but I often advise friends or family that it's best to spend that little bit more on an Intel piece as they are just better for everyday use. And if the money is there and that person wants top end performance then an enthusiast level SB/IB-E is there as well and those pretty much spank most of AMD's offerings.
I don't think I've seriously looked at AMD for an upgrade since my dual core from 4 years ago. There is no other choice for me as I look to build a rig even other year or so with the exception of the Haswell-E build I plan on putting together in early 2015.
Where's the new thread already?! Let's plan this better so we have it up ASAP!
I'm hoping that the boost that Steamroller brings might make AMD an option down at the very cheap levels, down at Pentium level pricing. The successor to Athlon X4 750K could be a good proposition at those levels but it's a matter of wait and see.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
For the right budget I agree. For the best of the best it's all Intel. Definitely look forward to Haswell-E as long as the 8 core is not 1k. I hope they make the core the "low" end part and 8 core the higher end. I'd buy it for around the same price I paid for my 3930k and that's still 560USD @@
Without even asking questions if the 4GB card is only 10-20 more then I say go for it. If you are gaming at higher resolutions or modding things in then I'd future proof things with a bare minimum of 3GB of memory for the GPU. Of course this is just my opinion but most of the time of there's a higher memory variant available it's not been much more money so I always like to go with more GPU memory for gaming.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Along with what LiquidMetal14 said, it would also probably not be a bad idea if you intend to use the card for a while (3-4+ years) since VRAM is one of those things that does slowly increase over time. I remember back in 09 or so when 512MB was considered fine for 1080p or lower resolutions around these parts, these days 2GB is basically the minimum on midrange cards.
I'd go with a 4GB 760 but I don't expect the VRAM to bottleneck me before the general GPU performance does at 1080p. And the 4GB variants are about $40-$50 more.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
You're more correct on the price than I was but to be fair to me the last time I was looking at the price differences on memory configs was around 2010. I automatically went with higher memory the next time and am willing to "settle" with 2 780ti's at 3GB. I would love a 4GB option though.
fluffydelusions
Member
Can anyone recommend me a good wireless card? Going to have to move my PC for a bit and it won't be near the router.
TC McQueen
Member
Go back four or five pages and you'll find my recommendation to someone else who asked that question. The answer was a TP-Link TN_-4500 or something like that.
Maxwell will be 28nm on release in March/April and then most likely a 20nm refresh later in the year or early 2015.
The Mar/Apr release has been on for a while now. Not sure what's making you doubt it.
The fact that Maxwell won't be released at 28nm. It is an architecture designed for 20nm, and that wont be here by that time frame.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
If the numbers I've seen are right GM106 on 28nm would probably be around a full square inch. Nvidia doesn't shy away from huge dies, but I don't think they're that crazy.
I think the best case scenario for the first half of this year is rebadges + price drops. And that's only going to happen if AMD gets back on the market due to mining cooling off.
I think the best case scenario for the first half of this year is rebadges + price drops. And that's only going to happen if AMD gets back on the market due to mining cooling off.
fluffydelusions
Member
I'm mobile ATM. You are killing me lol.
Is this it?http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007GMPZ0A/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Prophet Steve
Member
I assume this is the post, I think you can get to the page from there no?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=95054146&postcount=19589
TC McQueen
Member
My flatmate is looking to finally move on from Socket 775, so I've been looking at options for him. We're going with AMD over Intel due to cost, and we have 6GB of DDR memory standing by, so we don't need to get much of that. Here is what he has -
Core 2 Duo E8400 @ stock speeds
8GB DDR2
Radeon HD 4870
And the parts I've chosen are the following -
FX-8320
4GB 1333MHz (adding to the 6GB available, will make 12GB)
Asus M5A78L-M Socket AM3+
Radeon R9 270X 2GB
I haven't had anything to do with AMD since my Athlon XP 3000+, so I'm not sure if Socket AM3+ is a good choice. I've seen Socket FM2 motherboards - would it be better to go with a chip that uses that socket instead? Is AM3+ dead? And does anyone have anything to say on any of the other parts listed?
Core 2 Duo E8400 @ stock speeds
8GB DDR2
Radeon HD 4870
And the parts I've chosen are the following -
FX-8320
4GB 1333MHz (adding to the 6GB available, will make 12GB)
Asus M5A78L-M Socket AM3+
Radeon R9 270X 2GB
I haven't had anything to do with AMD since my Athlon XP 3000+, so I'm not sure if Socket AM3+ is a good choice. I've seen Socket FM2 motherboards - would it be better to go with a chip that uses that socket instead? Is AM3+ dead? And does anyone have anything to say on any of the other parts listed?
It's not a good choice. If he's really pushed for cash wait for the Kaveri reviews to see how the CPU is shaping up on them, or get him to save longer for an Intel part (or even get an i3).
AM3+ seems as dead a do-do, and if the FX line was going to get bumped with Steamroller cores it would've got it by now.
What is his budget?
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
RAM is an issue for starters. What is the 6GB? 3 x 2GB? DDR3? You want to fill all your slots with the same size/speed/latency RAM. 12GB should only happen on triple channel boards.
FM2+ is the newest socket for AMD's APUs and supposedly it will be used for their next series too. AM3+ is still used for the pure CPUs, but nobody really knows what AMD's future is with that. They've said they don't intend to put Steamroller FX CPUs out, so they may just go with APUs from this point on. I'd recommend an i3 dual core over an AMD APU in the same price range for gaming, unless it's a super budget PC and you're using the integrated graphics.
I build pc's for friends when they need it, I'm not a complete dunce when it comes to this sort of thing, I just haven't dealt with AMD in a long time. His budget is €400, which is small. He wasn't looking for a massive leap, just a small one would do him. I decided against Intel due to the cost, and checking up on the 8320 it seems to be a little better than my i5 2500 - better in some areas, weaker in others. I thought such performance was good for the price point. The 6GB ram is made up of 3x 2GB 13333MHz DDR3 sticks, left over from another friend's build after he did an upgrade. Adding a simple 4GB stick to the mix is hardly ideal, but it saves him the trouble of having to pay for more ram. I know people say to not mix ram, but I've never had a problem with it. I'm not trying to cause him problems down the line - problems I'd have to fix anyway - I'm just trying to save him money, and it all comes to about €400 as is.
The 270x also seems like a nice step up from the 4870. I shopped around on places like Pixmania, Komplett and Dabs, and found components on Amazon to be the best deal. The price breakdown is as follows -
AMD FX-8320 Black Edition - £112.24 = €135.25
Integral 4GB DDR3-1333 DIMM CL9 - £24.59 = €29.63
Asus M5A78L-M Socket AM3+ - £52.80 = €63.62
VTX3D AMD Radeon R9 270X X-Edition 2GB - £143.58 - €173.02
= £333.21
= €401.54
RAM wise you'd be better off just buying a fourth 2GB stick, you want either 2 or 4 DIMMs of RAM to get dual channel.
270X isn't a great buy. Better off with a 7870 or a 270.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks
CPU: Intel Core i3-4130 3.4GHz Dual-Core Processor (£83.94 @ Scan.co.uk)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£100.64 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: Kingston HyperX 2GB (1 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£17.98 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB Video Card (£129.90 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £332.46
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-01-01 17:59 GMT+0000)
Going for a Z87 motherboard means down the line if he wanted he could upgrade to an i5 or i7 and overclock them.
Again if budget is tight Kaveri is 13 days away, and it could have a good CPU boost over Richland.
An i3 over the 8320? Hmm! I doubt that'd be much of an upgrade over his E8400. He's not one to buy something cheap now and upgrade later, more the type to buy everything in one and go with that for a few years. If I mentioned getting an i3 now and maybe an i5 or i7 later he'd shake his head. Fair point on the 7870 though, will definitely swap the 270x out for that. I'm not convinced that 8GB dual channel will be better than 12GB non, even accounting different sticks... but I'll take it into consideration.
I'll wait for Kaveri then and see if there's anything worth getting there. Thanks for all your help, man
Also if he's not the sort of person who'd upgrade then make him save up more. Going AMD FX makes no sense right now.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
An i3 over the 8320? Hmm! I doubt that'd be much of an upgrade over his E8400. He's not one to buy something cheap now and upgrade later, more the type to buy everything in one and go with that for a few years. If I mentioned getting an i3 now and maybe an i5 or i7 later he'd shake his head. Fair point on the 7870 though, will definitely swap the 270x out for that. I'm not convinced that 8GB dual channel will be better than 12GB non, even accounting different sticks... but I'll take it into consideration.
I'll wait for Kaveri then and see if there's anything worth getting there. Thanks for all your help, man
It would be a pretty big upgrade despite still being dual core (and i3 is 2C/4T, so that's still one up on the C2D).
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/56?vs=677
And that's Ivy Bridge, a Haswell CPU would have a bigger edge over it.
Edit: Beaten.
And I bit the bullet on the MSI Hawk 760. Reviews are telling me it's pretty awesome and assuming the rebate goes through it's $250, and I think I can sell AC4 for $30-$40 to reduce that a bit.
Interceptor
Banned
I just bought a R9 270X. Did i made the right choice GAF? Bidding on a Phenom II X4 BE right now. Ram has to stay on 4GB DDR2 for little while longer.. Is this suitable for Dolphin and standard PC games or do i have to invest more?
Yikes. Consider me schooled. I'll wait to see what Kaveri brings, then make a decision. Thanks again
It's an impressive budget chip no doubt.
I'd have leaned towards the 270 as the only difference is clock speed but it's a good card still.
For Dolphin it's extremely CPU bound so that would be your main concern. Ideally a 4670K would be next on your upgrade list (and a new mobo) but I'd imagine if you're having to stick with what RAM you have that won't be an option. What I'd do to help alleviate your issue there is buy a Hyper 212 cooler and overclock your CPU to eek out extra performance.
Horsemama1956
Member
Who leaves an AMD CPU stock in a half serious gaming rig? i3s are way too overpriced now, and if you look for more benchmarks you'll see they can actually perform worse than previous generation i3s for whatever reason. Compare games like Battlefield 4 and you'll see like double the performance.
Though I would go with an FX63xx, $90 board with atleast 4+1 Phase VRM and heatsinked and a decent cooler. Pretty much a guaranteed 4.5Ghz and a damn fine gaming setup with room to grow when games make use of more threads+mantle. I got my 6300, M5a97 R2.0 and H60 for the cost of current gen i3 and decent board.
In real world gaming the i3s( aside from first gen) were incredibly disappointing. I owned the previous 3 gens of i3 and they aren't nearly as good as the benchmarks make them out too be, and now they cost way too much.
demosthenes
Member
Metro Vacuum ED500 DataVac 500-Watt 0.75-HP Electric Duster
www.amazon.com/Metro-Vacuum-ED500-500-Watt-Electric/dp/B001J4ZOAW/
This looks amazing.
Bought.
OC'd or not the FX-6300 is a much better overall CPU than any i3. Yes, the i3 will outperform it when it comes to single-core performance which is good for gaming, but if you get the GPU right it honestly doesn't even matter. And on top of that if you get the right motherboard (with good VRM design) you can OC the crap out of the 6300 and blow any i3 out of the water if you so desire.
lostsupper
Banned
Any data to support this? You know what they say about opinions.
If you look at benchmarks the 6300 tends to outperform the i3 except for when it comes to single-core performance; the i3 has a considerable advantage which helps for things like emulation or games that really need every last bit of that single core performance.
But again if you offset it with a nice GPU and take the extra step and get a good mobo for OCing you really cannot go wrong (and to be fair you can't go wrong with an i3 budget build either). I don't OC my 6300 at all and frankly the only thing really holding me back for gaming is my GPU.
Multithreaded apps will benefit from the 6300, and again, the thing is a beast for OCing if you ensure the conditions are right.
Who uses AMD in a half serious gaming rig?
Care to show me the benches were the Ivy Bridge i3 outperforms the Haswell one?
4+1 phase for an AMD CPU. What.
In real world gaming the i3s perform well, if you've any evidence to back up these claims I'd be glad to look at it. I'd rather trust what I've seen thus far than anecdotal evidence from yourself.
The CPU still matters.
The argument "well what about when it's overclocked, etc etc". The benchmarks are performed at stock speeds, obviously. That means the 8350 has a 600MHz advantage over the Sandy/Ivy/Haswell.
Overclocked, you can get a 20-35% linear bump with the Intel processors. With Vishera, it's more like 10-25%. Now, where things really start to go wonky, is that Vishera will be using 225-275W when overclocked, and also requires a decent motherboard. So you end up spending a bit more with 8 phase power compared to 4 or 6 that you can use with Intel.
As much as I like AMD they don't make sense to buy.
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