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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 2. Haswell = #IntelnoTIM, but free online. READ THE OP.
- Thread starter Hazaro
- Start date
- Status
Xisiqomelir
Member
NoRéN;95556364 said:
SI Giga/Mega vs Binary Giga/Mega
EDIT: Sorry, misread. It's hidden files.
You can not "offset single-core performance with a good enough GPU"!, saying that shows a complete lack of understanding how computers work!
For a GPU to help a CPU, not only does the program have to be programmed to use a GPU compute language (OpenCL, CUDA ect.), but the task also has to be extremely parallelizable, which it is clearly not if has not been broken into threads for the other CPU cores (which is likely much easier)!
The simple fact is that the FX series has far worse single threaded performance than Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge and Haswell, it is hugely power inefficient (insanely so when overclocked) and it is on a socket/platform that is about to be EoL!
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
http://m.itworld.com/hardware/397985/nvidias-next-generation-gpus-coming-sooner-expected
I know everyone says not to wait but ugh, I might wait. It seems like a bigger jump than usual.
In case the overlords shutdown the thread, I'm in the process of redoing the sheets.
If time permits hopefully I can make some other changes as well to give it a new feel, but we'll see.
My time and focus has drifted away most of the second half of this year compared to previous years, but luckily we have some great people here to keep things on track.
I also still need name suggestions for the thread.
Also anything in the OP that you have comments about (sans builds which are being updated) just speak your mind now (Tutorials, guides, info, images, stores, news, etc.)
If time permits hopefully I can make some other changes as well to give it a new feel, but we'll see.
My time and focus has drifted away most of the second half of this year compared to previous years, but luckily we have some great people here to keep things on track.
I also still need name suggestions for the thread.
Also anything in the OP that you have comments about (sans builds which are being updated) just speak your mind now (Tutorials, guides, info, images, stores, news, etc.)
hey guys finally gonna upgrade my PC as my mobo is dead
this is my current rig
thinking of changing the mobo+CPU and GFX
gonna install a 128GB SSD as well
stuck between R9 270X or a GTX 760
kinda leaning more towards AMD for Mantle and GCN..
probably gonna get a i5 4440 as well
any advice GAF?
this is my current rig
thinking of changing the mobo+CPU and GFX
gonna install a 128GB SSD as well
stuck between R9 270X or a GTX 760
kinda leaning more towards AMD for Mantle and GCN..
probably gonna get a i5 4440 as well
any advice GAF?
Sounds good, I'd really suggest springing for the 4670K and and overclocking board (Z87 Biostart on a budget or a UD3H) since CPU speeds are very stagnant, should be all you need for quite some time.
Both the 270X at $210 and the 760 at $250 are great buys. Personally I still think nVidia has better day 0 support and some nifty things like Shadowplay, but the 270X can mine and has Mantle.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
The desktop computer that I made per GAF instructions just burst into FLAMES.
Thanks, GAF.
Thanks, GAF.
sadly I'm not in the US so I don't have access to fantastic prices. doubt i'll get K as i'm functioning on a really small budget
I'm thinking of
CPU
i5 4440/4570
Motherboard
MSI B85-G43 Gaming
Asrock B85-Pro4
GFX
PowerColor 7950 3GB
Zotac GTX 760 AMP
Sapphire R9 270X Vapor-X
Yeah I've been saying the same thing for the last few years.
It's hard to get motivated enough to spend $$$ on more drives just for the sake of redundancy.
I'd rather do a Windows software mirror or a backup. Dislike not being able to read direct from drive.
damn bro that sux, shoulda not bought a:
A-TOP Technology
Apevia
APEX (SUPERCASE/ALLIED)
Aspire(Turbo Case)
ATADC
Athena Power
ATRIX
Broadway Com Corp
Coolmax
Deer
Diablotek
Dynapower USA
Dynex
EagleTech
FOXCONN
FSP Everest
HEC Orion
Hiper Type-R
Huntkey
I-Star Computer Co. Ltd
In Win
JPAC COMPUTER
Just PC
Kingwin Inc.
Linkworld Electronics
Logisys Computer
MGE
MSI
NMEDIAPC
Norwood Micro/ CompUSA
NorthQ
NZXT
Okia
Powmax
Q-Tec
Raidmax
SFC
Shuttle
Skyhawk
Spire Coolers
Star Micro
STARTECH
Thermaltake Purepower NP
Thermaltake Purepower RU
Thermaltake TR2 (and TR2-RX)
TOPOWER TOP
Ultra X-Connect
Ultra X2 >greater than 700 watt
Ultra LSP
Wintech
XION
YoungYear
Zebronics
powersupply
I'd go i5 4430/4440 +
Biostar Hi-Fi B85S3 or
Gigabyte GA-B85M-D3H
With a 7950 if it's at a similar price to the 270X
hahaha
yeah, I agree
I see. I guess I just got paranoid because I was installing F.E.A.R. on steam today. Left to run an errand and forgot. Come back and my pc when on sleep and install was messed up. Not complete but 17gb install was taking up space so I uninstalled just in case. that's when i noticed the difference in space used over space available. As long as it's ok.
The one thing I have noticed mentioned by people is that some stuff recommended in the OP isn't readily available abroad. Maybe add some alternatives for them?
If you are on a budget I'd just stick with a good priced 7950. Great card.
The only main thing I can think of this time around really is PSU selection which was brought up. Maybe I'll toss in an XFX or Seasonic there.
I'll need to know what parts (AUS always gets screwed, sorry) aren't available. Usually if someone needs help they can post in the thread.NoRéN;95567158 said:
The only main thing I can think of this time around really is PSU selection which was brought up. Maybe I'll toss in an XFX or Seasonic there.
PSU is the one part I see coming up often.
You already took care of the gpu part by providing nvidia alternatives(damn miners!).
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Looking up new computer parts now.
Although, thinking of going custom site and not build it myself.
Since. You know. My computer literally caught on fire.
Although, thinking of going custom site and not build it myself.
Since. You know. My computer literally caught on fire.
budget increased a little ^^ so I have more room to work with
hoping to find something that can work with these QNIX 27inch 1440p LED monitors...
would 280X suffice?
It would be good to explain to others that you are in fact kidding.
280X would be a good choice (It's a 7970Ghz), 290 even better if you can find a good priced aftermarket cooler version (Don't buy stock blower cooler).
So I think I'm going to build a NAS box with an old AMD 9650 rig I have lying around, all I should have to buy for it is a case and maybe a CPU cooler (unless I can find the old one).
Is there any reason I shouldn't do this?
Am probably going to use FreeNAS unless you guys have some better alternatives?
Is there any reason I shouldn't do this?
Am probably going to use FreeNAS unless you guys have some better alternatives?
I don't know how many times I can go over this. The FX range is not good unless I was doing something like spending all my time rendering videos in Sony Vegas 24/7. Until games become n-threaded like Civ V
then we cannot recommend anything AMD has here. You can try to guess the future all you want but right here right now Intel is king. Things might change, and I hope they do as more efficient thread use is good for everyone, but we've had multithreaded CPUs in PCs (and the consoles) for almost a decade now and nothing is changing.
Hi guys!
I've been trying to play Dead Island on my computer and my experience hasn't been really optimal.
I have a Phenom II X4 955BE and a 5770 with 4GB DDR. Mobo is ASROCK 980DE3/U3S3
I've looked for videos on youtube and people record with fraps in better FPS than mine, so I was wondering what could be the bottleneck.
I suspected it is the CPU since a couple friends have a 5770 and no problem running the game. I thought about upgrading my processor but I don't know which one to go to.
I was also thinking about getting an upgrade for the whole system (gradually upgrading parts), so I would like to find a really solid processor that I could use for the next years.
I don't know if this is the kind of post this thread is all about, if it isn't, sorry! =P
//tx
I've been trying to play Dead Island on my computer and my experience hasn't been really optimal.
I have a Phenom II X4 955BE and a 5770 with 4GB DDR. Mobo is ASROCK 980DE3/U3S3
I've looked for videos on youtube and people record with fraps in better FPS than mine, so I was wondering what could be the bottleneck.
I suspected it is the CPU since a couple friends have a 5770 and no problem running the game. I thought about upgrading my processor but I don't know which one to go to.
I was also thinking about getting an upgrade for the whole system (gradually upgrading parts), so I would like to find a really solid processor that I could use for the next years.
I don't know if this is the kind of post this thread is all about, if it isn't, sorry! =P
//tx
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I'm not.
My desktop computer died via catching fire and I am typing from my Surface Tablet. I already know I need to replace my mobo and CPU (and quite possibly the fan as well), but my question now is should I also replace my RAM? Or does it sound like something that would only affect the CPU and mobo?
Clockwork5
Member
I know nothing of video cards but a coworker wants to sell his 2gig 660ti. It is also still under warranty from a physical shop (i like that). Is this a decent card? I don't know too much but I have an i-7 and 16 gigs of ram, no video card, so I think with an upgrade I would have a capable machine. What would you pay, or would you even buy it?
It's still a good card, although what brand and cooler it has would dictate whether it's worth buying. Does he have a ball park figure for what he'd take?
Xisiqomelir
Member
Join me in our glorious wait!
Clockwork5
Member
I don't know what brand, though he said he paid about $300 a year ago for it. He said he maybe " a couple hundred bucks" so there could be some wiggle room there.
I don't think he would buy an off brand. He is a graphics nut. Sorry I don't have more info...
I don't think he would buy an off brand. He is a graphics nut. Sorry I don't have more info...
Chance your arm and offer him $175, maybe a bit less. A brand new 660 with two free games is $180 after rebate though, so you could use that to negotiate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
An EVGA one (which I'd lean to over the Asus) with games is $185 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
This is the rough performance difference between the two
An EVGA one (which I'd lean to over the Asus) with games is $185 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
This is the rough performance difference between the two
Clockwork5
Member
Thanks! I think ill go 175 tops. As far as performance relative to most games, could I expect 1080/60?
Yeah I really wouldn't pay any more than that for a used 660 Ti.
Performance wise it'll handle itself well enough for that resolution and target frame rate. Some titles you might have to drop a setting or two but it's still a very capable card. Looking at more modern reviews like the 760 will include the 660 Ti in it's benchmarks so you can see what current titles perform like.
Performance wise it'll handle itself well enough for that resolution and target frame rate. Some titles you might have to drop a setting or two but it's still a very capable card. Looking at more modern reviews like the 760 will include the 660 Ti in it's benchmarks so you can see what current titles perform like.
Oh, please. You certainly can offset it enough for satisfactory framerates and overall performance for a game. Simply put, if I have a vastly superior GPU than someone with an i5 I'm still going to get better performance in most cases unless it is a very CPU dependent game, and even then it probably won't be so severe that it would make me regret my purchase. And, say, in another year or so when the more expensive GPU's come down in price it will give a significant boost to even a PC with an FX CPU. Would it perform better in an i5? Yes, but honestly at that point if I'm getting >60fps I'm not really caring. Not to mention a CPU like the 6300 isn't really going to seriously bottleneck future GPU upgrades.
If you want cutting edge tech so you can run games at 2140p+ or something, then yeah get an i5 or i7. In my case, though, if my board and CPU are working just fine in a year or two when I am likely to upgrade my GPU again, I'm not going to care about upgrading my CPU, why would I if I can get 60fps+ in every game at the highest settings with a new GPU?
OH NO IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! That doesn't make it worthless. You are acting like any form of significant computing lives and dies by if it can catch up to Core i3/i5/i7 single threaded performance, which is really silly. It's not as good as Sandy Bridge/Haswell, this has been established. Everyone knows this. But it isn't so terrible that it is going to force me to go out and waste $220+ on pricey Intel chips that I have absolutely no need for. I can stream/transcode, game, edit, multitask, basically do anything I want with the FX 6300, even with lackluster single-core performance. And single-core performance, by the way, is going to become less and less relevant for gaming as time goes by.
Okay, "Intel is king". That's nice. I'm not here to get into a pissing contest over Intel vs. AMD, in fact I have no problem admitting that Intel makes better CPU's right now if you haven't noticed yet. I'm here to say that for people on a budget who want something that will deliver great overall performance and not bottleneck GPU upgrades, the FX series, particularly 6300 and higher, are a wise choice. People in this thread are way, way too suggestive/persuasive in constantly implying that a FX chip will be an awful choice because of single core performance. Get the GPU right, if you intend to game at 1080p you absolutely cannot go wrong. In fact, the thing I regret most about my PC when I built it in June isn't the CPU, but the fact that I didn't put extra money towards a better GPU since I saved at least $120 by not handing my wallet to Intel. I still like my 660, but I could have spent at least $60-80 or so for something a little better.
What GPU were they using in that bench btw?
For some people, like you, it's enough. But seriously $220 is not a lot to spend on a great CPU. Maybe I just think that because I come from a time when the minimum you could down on a computer was $3500. We have it so amazing right now. When even the lower end hardware can run just about any game at a playable frame rate... Amazing.
I'll agree that in many cases the fx would be just fine. But I like to think that this thread is about education as much as performance. I don't want someone to buy an fx an then ask to upgrade it and get stung with having to buy board and chip. $40 more gets an i3. If you like it then you find a used i7 down the road for $200. Much better path. *shrug*. I'm tired f fighting about this. The basic matter is when you buy cheap , you buy twice. Save up longer. Build slower. Wait for deals.
I'll agree that in many cases the fx would be just fine. But I like to think that this thread is about education as much as performance. I don't want someone to buy an fx an then ask to upgrade it and get stung with having to buy board and chip. $40 more gets an i3. If you like it then you find a used i7 down the road for $200. Much better path. *shrug*. I'm tired f fighting about this. The basic matter is when you buy cheap , you buy twice. Save up longer. Build slower. Wait for deals.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Your logic here is all over the place. The GPU doesn't matter, because the GPU is not processing the same stuff as the CPU. Whether you're using a 780ti or integrated graphics the CPU is going to get through it's part of the workload at the same speed. In an apples to apples comparison an i3 comes out ahead of the FX6300 in many cases, the graphs have been posted a dozen times in the last few days. That's the point people are getting at, not even bringing i5s into the equation.
The only potential argument in the FX series favor is that the 6300 is about the same price as an i3 and has more hardware threads. But multithreading beyond two cores has been extremely slow to get off the ground and there's no indication that in the next few years suddenly dual core is going to be a massive bottleneck versus a CPU with more cores with worse performance per core.
AMD's CPUs aren't awful or non-functional for games or something, in fact the build I just put together for my brother on a super-tight Christmas budget (about $380) used a FX6300 since I got it from Microcenter with a motherboard for $130. But at standard prices it's not really a good value even over an i3 (especially when you factor in long term cost, since an i3 uses a 2/3 the power at stock), don't blame people in this thread for that, point fingers at AMD for being so far behind, or Intel for their screwing them over back in the day causing them to fall behind in the first place.
Yeah, I remember when I was a kid, my first PC which had a Pentium 75MHz was over $1500 (at least). Playing an mp3 in Winamp would lag the entire system, all the way down to your keystrokes. It is remarkable how far we've come.
$220 is a lot when something that can suit all of your needs and then some is $120 less and you are on a budget but want a good gaming PC.
If it is about education then every newbie in here should know that the i3 is ridiculously overpriced for a dual core and a FX 6300 is a better choice every single time, budget-oriented or not. Honestly it is basically somewhere in between an i3 and an i5 for overall performance. People in this thread are putting way too much emphasis on single-core computing. It's not that big of a deal if you have the right build.
And they should also know that despite lackluster single-core performance 6 or 8 core FX series can hold its own against Haswell/Sandy Bridge if you, again, have the right build (GPU basically). That doesn't make it better, but it makes it a viable option for those wanting to save money. Getting the best value is a vital part of educating the consumer, so it is a bit ignorant to write off the FX series.
We should also be glad Intel at least has some competition, imagine if AMD did not exist. You could be paying 2x as much for Intel CPU's that are, in many cases, already overpriced as is.
My logic that a 6/8 core FX with a good enough GPU won't give you terrible performance for games, and you are saving up to $120 in the process (more if there's a sale), and will allow you to upgrade your GPU in the coming years with no issue... is spotty? Really? No, what's all over the place are people foaming at the mouth over anyone who buys a FX CPU because it isn't Sandy Bridge or Haswell. You'd think someone went to a used PC shop and bought a Socket 754 chip thinking it would be adequate with the way some people react to the mere mention of anything other than new Intel CPU's.
Also, paying multicore prices for a dual core i3 in 2013/2014 is pure lunacy.
But the FX 6300 isn't a true 6 core in the same way an Intel CPU is (albeit there is no true definition of what a core is). It's more like a triple core/module CPU with 6 threads.
The FX 6300 is not between an i3 and an i5 for performance unless you're using something that can equally use all 6 threads. What is doing that? Almost nothing. You can keep saying it does this and it does that but you've nothing to back up your arguments. CPU matters in gaming still, Intel's offerings are better. That is incontrovertible. In most games they perform on a par with Intel chips from 2009, consume lots of power relative to Intel, overclocking doesn't bring that big a performance boost (we're talking 10-15%) and they're on a dead socket too.
I would love AMD to be competitive again, absolutely love it but they're not and that's just the way it is.
280X.
The FX 6300 is not between an i3 and an i5 for performance unless you're using something that can equally use all 6 threads. What is doing that? Almost nothing. You can keep saying it does this and it does that but you've nothing to back up your arguments. CPU matters in gaming still, Intel's offerings are better. That is incontrovertible. In most games they perform on a par with Intel chips from 2009, consume lots of power relative to Intel, overclocking doesn't bring that big a performance boost (we're talking 10-15%) and they're on a dead socket too.
I would love AMD to be competitive again, absolutely love it but they're not and that's just the way it is.
280X.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
It's priced against the i3 because that's what it competes with in terms of performance. "But it's dual core!" isn't really a good argument because it's still faster most workloads, including most games. And there isn't really any sign multicore taking off, especially if IGPs are going to end up replacing FPUs and handling highly parallel workloads (which has been AMD's bet for ages, it's the entire reason they bought ATI).
Pretty much. Ideally we'd be living in a world where software would work like this
but it's not. Also, I was looking at Cinebench too
and then the power required...
Yes, this is basically how I look at it as well but the definition does tend to vary. It has the threads.
Almost nothing? As future applications become optimized for multicore CPU's they will all benefit from it, Intel or AMD.
It can be a dead socket for all I care, I see no reason to upgrade my CPU over the next 4+ years unless it or my mobo fails. More interested in a new GPU later this year or early next year.
I'm not trying to prove anything other than multithreading will futureproof your purchase somewhat (I know people hate this word), but I see you have posted some benchmarks that demonstrate its power. As apps and games continue to use more threads, can you not expect similar performance? Of course you can. People have been saying it for years, I know, but I think we're reaching a point (especially with gaming) when you are going to see more things take advantage of multicore. The vast majority of CPU's on the market now are multicore.
I don't know, the 6xxx and 8xxx series tend to get pretty rave reviews on the Internet these days. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113286
I'd say they are still pretty competitive if you don't want cutting edge performance from your CPU, and that applies to a lot of people. Can't ask for much more from a "dead socket".
Which has been said for years.
In those graphs where lots of threads are being used look at the difference between an FX 6300 and the i3. It's pretty slim. Then let's look at single threaded which is still the most important thing
And even then in some applications the much better IPC of the Intel stuff will win out. This benchmark uses 6 threads so you'd think the FX 6300 should win, not so
Rave reviews from people who've bought them, great. It's not like there will be people out there who will buy something and then say great things about it to justify their purchases.
The reviews that matter on the CPU side are the professional reviews, not user ones, which is what I wanted from you to justify your argument, and you cannot provide those as they don't exist.
If you buy AMD it's not going to mean you cannot play games or perform tasks, I argue against them purely from the standpoint that for most tasks Intel offers better performance from their equivalent CPUs. Again if I was spending all day in Sony Vegas then yes, I'd say AMD is a great buy, but since that isn't what most people are doing Intel stuff is better.
Please, stop trying to argue this. I've provided empirical evidence for what I'm saying, you've provided nothing bar some Newegg customer reviews.
or should I consider a 290 instead? hmm
I am so impatient! I don't want to end up waiting until March or April because I've just sold my 680 and I'll be without a card.
I might just buy the GTX 780 now and then use NVIDIA step up to pay the difference when the new Maxwell cards come out.
CreepingFear
Member
Pcper got their hands on the same case that Valve uses for the Steam Machine Beta.
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-and-Cooling/Silverstone-Raven-Z-RVZ01-Mini-ITX-Case-Steam-Machine-Chassis
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-and-Cooling/Silverstone-Raven-Z-RVZ01-Mini-ITX-Case-Steam-Machine-Chassis
CreepingFear
Member
It's never been easier or cheaper, which is why it amuses me when I see console fanboys acting like it's 1998 for building computers.
This and the console fanboy assumed price of $2,000 are hilarious to me.
Pretty ugly.
I was intimidated a bit since it's been 10+ years since my last build, but it couldn't have been easier. This thread, PC Part Picker (for compatibility and best price), and the NewEgg YouTube "How To Build A PC" 3-part series helped me get right back in the game.
Even with the crappy budget case I bought, things like cable routing and the like have become super easy. So many cases have great built-in cable routing stuff (rubberized cable "ports," partless/toolless HDD and optical drive bays, etc.) and modular PSUs make things much nicer too.
I honestly wish I had more PCs to build! It was pretty fun and painless this time around. I'd say that once I had all of my components sourced, it took me 30 mins to get my external build finished. Since my boot test worked perfectly, I finished my internal build in maybe 1 hour. After running back to the store to get a few missing parts (mounting bracket for my SSD and a wireless networking card), my total build time was maybe 4 hours.
I spent about 2-3 additional hours getting everything software-sided set up, Windows SP1, drivers updated, essential programs installed, and so on.
I still have to do fine tuning stuff like OCing my CPU and GPU, but I can play anything on it right now so I'm pretty pleased.
It's an uninformed viewpoint, that's for sure. I think that view probably comes from a lot of the hype surrounding PC enthusiasts' lust for new GPUs and such. I think people tend to forget that there are CPUs and GPUs that are around that cater to the more budget-minded consumer. That and the frequent price drops on hardware are something they won't see unless they're tracking a part's cost over time.
If they just took a look into this thread and took a peek at Hazaro's build sheets, they'd realize it's much cheaper than $2K. I hope.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Yeah, seriously. I've always been a console gamer but you guys in this thread and the Steam one have made me realize how much I'd enjoy PC gaming. It's totally doable and no longer intimidating. Sure, I can upgrade yearly but I don't have to. It'll continue to work just like my PS4 will work.
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