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[oldergamer]

GP on console has 430 games. A good chunck (I'd say almost half) of which is 360 or OG xbox games. Xbox one + xbox series games count is much lower.

The guy is talking about 400 PS4 + PS5 games. If you include PS1-PS3 games in PS + Premium it has 740 games. None of the counts matter if both gamepass and PS+ premium are mostly filler but I'm surprised PS+ Extra is giving Miles Morales, Spiderman, Returnal, Death stranding etc. That's a decent offer.

Lets get the facts straight its not 'half". They have 60 360 games, half of those are EA's and the majority are games that were never re-released on more recent consoles. Like puzzle games, gears series, vivia pinata, etc. They also only have 6 OG xbox titles that were fan favorites, like Psychonaughts 1, Crimson skies, & Blinx, etc.

That's out of 430 total games. The list keeps getting bigger. They had 330 games around Oct last year.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

The new tiers are a net positive. Prices aren't changing for the existing tiers, and there's an extra tier for people who want PS1/2/P titles to download.

It would be great if Sony put all their first party games on the service day 1, but why are people holding them to that standard but not Nintendo or other big 3rd party pubs? Xbox has spoiled many of you and that's ultimately a great thing. We likely wouldn't have this rebranding if it weren't for GP, and I hope Sony continues to invest in the service with delayed 1st party games and newer 3rd party games.

 

[kyliethicc]

Except for 2 less PS+ games a month

PS Plus monthly games have always been 2 per month for PS4 during the PS4 era.

Any month with more than 2 is a bonus.

 

[Zeroing]

I dunno, I will try it, then judge it. PS+ extra seems interesting but again depends on the games.

 

[Unrivaledx88]

Well inwill be buying pS+ as it is today glad that didnt change no interest in old games here

 

[Topher]

So is this sustainable for Sony or is it losing them money, if Game Pass is losing money?

Obviously the big difference is that this doesn't include Sony first party day one.

 

[Swift_Star]

I will certainly quote you later when this doesn't happen.

You didn't understand the tiers at all and jumped to make a claim that was completely false. Probably based on a hope of what would happen.

Middle tier will only have a 15-20% upgrade rate from base. Count on it.

...What the third tier has now. Seriously can you read what I'm saying?

You’ll never quote me because I’m right and you’re wrong.

 

[DaGwaphics]

How that works exactly?

You increase the number of subs your maintaince increases… you need more servers because well your numbers increased.

You have to share revenue with 3rd-parties.

How much from these subs revenue is left to Sony per month? How much they can put on game development? How much they will take for profit?

4 big releases per year costs a lot.

I don't think the third-party games that get added to PSNow or GP cost quite as much as you think. And costs for a download service would not be that exorbitant either, game streaming would be a bit more expensive (though nothing extreme for tech companies of this size). Basically, they have a certain amount of subs at a certain price and a certain amount of basic operating expenses. The difference there minus any profit they want to make is the budget for content (both first and third-party). The revenue here balloons quickly, on a $10mo sub you are looking at $3b a year on 25m subs. And you still have your traditional sales and MTX/DLC, the sub does not need to pay for everything.

However, I can see where the traditional model can be more profitable if you can move a ton of units at full price.

 

[DeepSpace5D]

Was there any mention of trophy support for any of the classic titles? I didn’t read that in the blog.

If not I’ll probably just sub to the higher tier for a couple months to play some classics and then go back down to the base tier.

It’s not a very enticing proposition for me personally as someone who mostly just buys the games they want.

 

[Three]

Bro that’s completely wrong, why even lie about something so obvious? There are less than 15% of GP games which are 360 or OG.

Where does that figure come from?

Filter by playable on Xbox series/xbox one then count for 5 pages and you have 24 xbox 360 titles within the first 100.

Xbox Game Pass Games Library | Xbox

Explore the Game Pass library and play hundreds of games.

www.xbox.com

Far more than 15% and you haven't even hit F or G yet. Anyway I wasn't trying to be precise. The point was that 430 GPU library includes BC titles and if you were to include BC titles on PS+ premium that's 740 games on it. It's not less it's more but it's all irrelevant if most of it on both services are filler.

 

[sircaw]

Question for people that might know, if i am a ps plus essential subscriber, the lowest tier, then one month ghost of Tsushima or Tlou2 single player becomes available on the next tier above, am i able to upgrade to that tier for a couple of bucks for a month or so two to play, then go back down to the lowest tier when i have finished the game?

It's all good i got my answer.

Thanks kyliethicc still hate liverpoo.

 

[ethomaz]

Question for people that might know, if i am a ps plus essential subscriber, the lowest tier, then one month ghost of Tsushima or Tlou2 single player becomes available on the next tier above, am i able to upgrade to that tier for a couple of bucks for a month or so two to play, then go back down to the lowest tier when i have finished the game?

You can buy one month essential and one month premium... yeap.
But I believe you need to wait to end your sub to buy (actually redeem... you can buy before that) the new one when is downgrade... you can buy it before but just redeem after the previous ends.
Same works for a Yearly sub... when it ends you can redeem a lower tier sub.

 

[Topher]

Question for people that might know, if i am a ps plus essential subscriber, the lowest tier, then one month ghost of Tsushima or Tlou2 single player becomes available on the next tier above, am i able to upgrade to that tier for a couple of bucks for a month or so two to play, then go back down to the lowest tier when i have finished the game?

I think that would work fine if you were paying monthly, but that already costs twice as much as paying yearly.

 

[Chukhopops]

Where does that figure come from?

Filter by playable on Xbox series/xbox one then count for 5 pages and you have 24 xbox 360 titles within the first 100.

Xbox Game Pass Games Library | Xbox

Explore the Game Pass library and play hundreds of games.

www.xbox.com

Far more than 15% and you haven't even hit F or G yet. Anyway I wasn't trying to be precise. The point was that 430 GPU library includes BC titles and if you were to include BC titles on PS+ premium that's 740 games on it. It's not less it's more but it's all irrelevant if most of it on both services is filler.

People have given the exact number and it’s 65, which is 14.4% of the approximately 450 games in the service. It’s not half.

What’s more than half is the number of PS3 games compared to total PSNow. The two services can’t be compared when the average GP game was 4 years more recent than the average PSNow game.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Sadly for you, that’s not how this will work. And the vast majority of users will sub to the second tier. It is what it is.

You’re not everyone. Sony will market the middle tier the most and people will jump on it. It offers the best value out of the three. It’s not rocket science.

The casuals will be happy to get downloadable ps4 games and some of the new ps5 games with that sub. They’re perfectly happy with the ps plus collection as it is, this is just icing on the cake. Most users will subscribe to the middle tier. It’s just what will happen.

Wrong. Most people don't care about rental services.

Look at Now vs PS+ numbers.

Heck look at GP... it's available to many devices with $1 3 month subs and only has 25 million subscribers vs Live Gold which is likely over double that.

The basic model will continue to be the more popular for both Xbox and PlayStation.

No they don’t. Only shady sites do. They’ve been gone for a while.

As a person who subscribes to Live Gold and PS+.... this isn't true I can always find on many sites Plus between $27-40.
Live Gold if I'm lucky Newegg has it on sale for $50.

 

[Three]

65 games are from X360 or Xbox generation. And majority of them are either great games from EA (Dead Space, Dante Inferno, Dragon Age) or they are there because of Rare Replay Collection. So let's not pretend that GP is heavily lifted by those. Because most important aspect of GP are day one releases, first party games and AAA third party releases some time after they came out

And Sony first party year and half after they released? So I can subscribe for a same price that I can buy those games at that time? No thanks

No, rare reply is counted as xbox one. As is other remasters or remakes. I'm talking 360, xbox OG games on the service. It's more than 65. It's also not mostly EA. There is a lot of first party stuff.

 

[The_Mike]

The rumors were true holy hell.

Haven't read all 19 pages, how many of you besides Bryank75 and ethomaz will take the higher tiers in here?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I am interested to see what PS1 games they add. I have a harder time playing 3D games prior to ps360 unless there is some nostalgia there (those old games had some jank), hoping for some old favorites.

Well, definitely don't expect anything tied to licensing. So none of the old Tony Hawk, Madden, NASCAR, WWF/WWE, FIFA, Harry Potter, (potentially) Spiderman, Batman etc. games. Or the Road Rash games for that matter. Even classic GT games could be up for question since they used licensed music in parts.

1P-wise tho it'd be neat if they offered some of the more obscure stuff. Crime Crackers, Tomba, Jumping Flash, Motor Toon, Parappa, UmJammer, Legend of Dragoon, Arc the Lad etc. They should definitely get some Square, Enix, Namco, Capcom etc. games there too like classic RE, Tekken 2 & 3, Einhander, Parasite Eve, Fear Effect, Klonoa etc.

Still disappointing no trophy support though; that is kind of lazy when websites like Retro Achievements provide them for a lot of older games through emulator. But I'm wondering how Sony are actually handling emulation of these games, they might be custom for each game instead of a general emulation layer. That's easier in the short term, but has limitations in long-term the more games done that way, like with feature deployment because a feature could work with one but break others, so then those have to be custom, too.

 

[chonga]

I can't believe people were expecting first party games at launch. Most of those games sell like crazy, why on Earth would Sony go down that route when there's no reason for it and would probably end up being a lot less profitable for them?

But Microsoft....

In the not too distant future you will see day-and-date Sony titles, but it won't be blanket. All that live service game talk and heavy investment into studios and teams that know how to handle MP titles? That's all for good reason. Those titles are less risky, lower upfront budgets and are games that people wouldn't want to pay full price for, but see as good value if included for 'free' as part of a subscription.

So you won't see The Last of Us type titles on there upon release for a very long time, but games like Destruction AllStars - that's the first step.

 

[ethomaz]

The rumors were true holy hell.

Haven't read all 19 pages, how many of you besides Bryank75 and ethomaz will take the higher tiers in here?

I don't think the higher tier is for me at all.
I don't usually play old games... PSNow was never a product for me too.
For players like me nothing will change... I pay PS+ for the online (I rarely played a free game from there unless it is something I really want to play like well happened with Bugnax).

 

[Swift_Star]

Wrong. Most people don't care about rental services.

Look at Now vs PS+ numbers.

Heck look at GP... it's available to many devices with $1 3 month subs and only has 25 million subscribers vs Live Gold which is likely over double that.

The basic model will continue to be the more popular for both Xbox and PlayStation.



As a person who subscribes to Live Gold and PS+.... this isn't true I can always find on many sites Plus between $27-40.
Live Gold if I'm lucky Newegg has it on sale for $50.

So gamepass isn’t the end all be all? Something’s wrong here.

 

[Three]

People have given the exact number and it’s 65, which is 14.4% of the approximately 450 games in the service. It’s not half.

What’s more than half is the number of PS3 games compared to total PSNow. The two services can’t be compared when the average GP game was 4 years more recent than the average PSNow game.

There are not 450 games. There are 430 as the official page shows. It's not 65 either. You can count if you like.

 

[Dr Bass]

He thinks because Phil said gamepass is sustainable, it means its not losing money.

We know why he thinks that, the point is he's completely wrong.

You know what else is "sustainable"? My mortgage. Because I make enough money in other areas to cover it. It's still a cost center for me. But it's very sustainable! Sound familiar?

So is this sustainable for Sony or is it losing them money, if Game Pass is losing money?

This isn't Game Pass where Sony has a crapload of studios they aren't selling games for. I am sure its's fine for them. They are selling their new games, and they already stated this. This is all online play and old games no one is buying anymore. Massive, massive, difference in strategy and that seems like it should be pretty obvious.

 

[StealthGoblin]

The way they revealed this is the worst way it could have been done.

It’s not very clear, we don’t know the games etc. Its a total car crash and is the rumours made official.

 

[Fake]

A powerful console... for cloud stream.

Joke.

 

[Chukhopops]

There are not 450 games. There are 430 as the official page shows. It's not 65 either. You can count if you like.

Go on gamepassport.net. Click Xbox Series X.

447 results

Sort by release date and count the OG/360 games.

65

65/447 = 14.57%

 

[It's all in the wrist]

There's no good way to introduce this when Gamepass exists. Glad they got it out of the way.

 

[thismeinteil]

Well, I expect not to hear much on GamePass numbers after this rolls out, since it will be directly compared to GamePass, and we know how MS is with having smaller numbers.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sustainable probably doesn't mean they're earning massive profits.

But the whole sentence in context also makes it sound like they're not exactly losing/burning cash purely on GP either.

It's probably impossible for GamePass to be in the red; even if all those subs don't stay subbed the whole year, or aren't paying in full the whole way...even if it's like 25% or 30% of all sub numbers doing that and stuff like Reward points...it'd still be bringing in probably $1.5 billion a year of revenue. Operating costs might each up a third of that, maybe.

But it would still be lower in operating costs versus them not owning their own server hardware and software, their own data centers for hosting. But there's also the fact GamePass is still wrapped in the Xbox division for accounting reasons, IIRC.

This is a joke. More expensive that Game Pass and certainly inferior.

Everyone needs to quit calling this a competitor to Game Pass it's definitely not that, although I have no doubt there will be a certain group of people here on GAF now claiming this is GRRREATEST thing ever for gaming

I mean sure there's no Day 1 1P games, and on that metric it looks like a net negative. But I don't think Sony ever pitched it as a competitor to GamePass; that was insiders and media hyping it up that way.

For me personally there's still a good amount of value with what they have, and they can improve it down the line. Whatever solution they implement for Day 1 will be something that works for them and that's okay. Microsoft has their approach that works for their model, that's fine too. I see value in how they're both doing things.

And at least they've both clearly ahead of NSO. Add some Saturn, Dreamcast and Gamecube support ASAP, Nintendo.

 

[Rob_27]

The shit one I'm on at the moment. Not paying anymore

 

[R6Rider]

This is a joke. More expensive that Game Pass and certainly inferior.

Everyone needs to quit calling this a competitor to Game Pass it's definitely not that, although I have no doubt there will be a certain group of people here on GAF now claiming this is GRRREATEST thing ever for gaming

This reads like a fanboy comment on Youtube.

Embarassing.

 

[Knightime_X]

Wut?

You can download PSNow games… you can either sign to PSNow or buy them individually on PS4.

That works on PS4 today.
On PS5 is streamed because they did not release the emulator yet.

That will change from the look of it.

You will have two options:

1) Steam or download from PS+++.
2) Buy and download individually.

The exceptions are PS3 games that only have the streaming option via PS+++.

Let's hope so.
I'm more interested in knowing ps1 games are coming.
If I can purchase and DL Resident Evil 2: Dualshock edition and Gradius V i'll be happy.

well, a few more as well

 

[ethomaz]

This is a joke. More expensive that Game Pass and certainly inferior.

Everyone needs to quit calling this a competitor to Game Pass it's definitely not that, although I have no doubt there will be a certain group of people here on GAF now claiming this is GRRREATEST thing ever for gaming

Just sub to Gamepass... what are you doing here at all? Gamepass is not full filling your game habits?

BTW it is actually cheaper than Gamepass.

 

[SlimySnake]

Do you think they make $40b in profit every year because they have bad business practices that some guy on the internet knows are unsustainable?

No, they're just well aware that they can't take the same approach Sony does and so invested in a service that will take a (very) long time to pay off, but will eventually. It'll sure as shit be sustainable when there's over 100m GP subscribers across Xbox, PC, phone, tablet and more.

An MS exec was called up in court recently for the Epic Apple lawsuit and she said Microsoft has never made any money from selling consoles. Lets not pretend that these guys dont make mistakes and are above questioning. Xbox especially has had disastrous gens due to decisions made by some very smart people working for a very profitable company.

If anything, you have to look at their recent purchases of $70 and $8 billion to figure out that their current first party portfolio for gamepass was not sustainable. They literally had to spend $80 billion in order to make it sustainable.

 

[Papacheeks]

This is a joke. More expensive that Game Pass and certainly inferior.

Everyone needs to quit calling this a competitor to Game Pass it's definitely not that, although I have no doubt there will be a certain group of people here on GAF now claiming this is GRRREATEST thing ever for gaming

Actually if you buy highest tier for the year it's $60 cheaper than Gamepass Ultimate is for a year?

So.....

 

[Fake]

Just let me buy PS2/PS1 games alone without Playstation Plus.

 

[R6Rider]

Actually if you buy highest tier for the year it's $60 cheaper than Gamepass Ultimate is for a year?

So.....

Stop using logic against the usual suspects.

 

[Three]

Go on gamepassport.net. Click Xbox Series X.

447 results

Sort by release date and count the OG/360 games.

65

65/447 = 14.57%

Why on earth would I go to gamepassport.net instead of the official gamepass site?

Gamepassport.net includes things like coming soon in their counts and some of the removed ones are there still. Anyway i didn't want to get into some lengthy list wars debate about numbers as I said I wasn't being precise. Just pointing out it includes a whole bunch of BC games which some counted on one side and excluded on the other.

 

[T-Cake]

You really think anyone is subscribing to PS Now and not PS+?

I'm probably in the minority but I have no use for online multiplayer. So I'm PS Now only.

 

[CatLady]

Just sub to Gamepass... what are you doing here at all? Gamepass is not full filling your game habits?

If SONY fans that don't have Game Pass can constantly troll any and every Xbox Game Pass thread, why can' Xbox fans give their opinions on Sony's alleged competitor?

 

[Swift_Star]

This is a joke. More expensive that Game Pass and certainly inferior.

Everyone needs to quit calling this a competitor to Game Pass it's definitely not that, although I have no doubt there will be a certain group of people here on GAF now claiming this is GRRREATEST thing ever for gaming

If SONY fans that don't have Game Pass can constantly troll any and every Xbox Game Pass thread, why can' Xbox fans give their opinions on Sony's alleged competitor?

At least you admit you’re trolling and adding nothing of value to the discussion.

 

[Topher]

If SONY fans that don't have Game Pass can constantly troll any and every Xbox Game Pass thread, why can' Xbox fans give their opinions on Sony's alleged competitor?

Mutually assured destruction

I'm for it.

 

[AetherZX]

>still streaming PS3 games

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

So gamepass isn’t the end all be all? Something’s wrong here.

No it isn't hence most PC and Xbox gamers not subscribing.

 

[spons]

No they don’t. Only shady sites do. They’ve been gone for a while.

In the US maybe. Digital codes for a year of PS Now can be gotten for 60 euros on a massive retailer here, far from shady.

 

[Bryank75]

The rumors were true holy hell.

Haven't read all 19 pages, how many of you besides Bryank75 and ethomaz will take the higher tiers in here?

What makes you think I would get a higher tier? LOL

 

[CrustyBritches]

I just want Spider-Man, Uncharted 4, and Last of Us 2 back on PSNow PC. They also need to add some stuff like Ghost of Tsushima, Final Fantasy VII Remake, and MLB The Show. I'd like to know when to expect PS5 streaming, as xCloud has been doing XSX games for a while. As it stands, the PS offering will just be old last-gen games, and really old classics that they charge more than GP Ultimate for.

 

[Elios83]

19 pages of predictable "bbbut no day one games!!!" by the usual trolls who are active 24/7
Even if that was totally obvious since the beginning and already well known.
Actually I find interesting that Jim Ryan has left the door totally open about it in the future claiming that things can change quickly and that no one saw them publishing games on PC just a few years ago.

An other interesting point is that Jim Ryan hinted on Famitsu that old classics will feature improvements:

PlayStation Plusの新サービスが6月開始へ。数百のPS4/5タイトルが定額プレイ可能なExtraと、PS1/PS2/PSPタイトルなども遊べるPremiumの2種が上位版として登場 | ゲーム・エンタメ最新情報のファミ通.com

PlayStation Plusの新サービスが発表。従来のものと合わせて3種類となり6月より提供開始予定。

www.famitsu.com

--As for this new offering of the classic game, are there any additional features from the original version, such as support for higher frame rates, etc.?

Jim Ryan: More details to come, but I've heard from people who have played with it that it looks great on PlayStation 4 and 5. But it will depend on the title of the game.

so it will be interesting to see the extent of that. The fact that PS1, PS2 and PSP games will be downloadable was a nice surprise for me, I expected all the retro games to be on the cloud.


In the end this is mostly a merging of their current services in a way that adds more value so that more people subscribe and current subscribers find enough reasons to upgrade.
I expect many gamers who don't buy a lot of games in a year (le'ts say just 4-5 games) to find great value in the extra option. At 99$ per year you have access to a 400 games library.
The premium tier is more aimed at core gamers but its success will depend a lot on the quality of the retrocatalogue, game trials if available for many new releases could become alone a big reason to upgrade.
Essential tier will continue to be the most successful option.

 

[sinnergy]

Most people here in this thread would buy a gold plated turd from Sony .. this deal is pretty stale .. as it’s basically back compat, that’s free on Xbox.

you can get all this stuff cheap second hand .

 

[Tazzu]

Well that, was fucking dreadful.