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Ampere Estimatez: PS5 sold 21 million, Xbox Series sold 13.8 million.

yazenov

Member
There's also the possibility of not cutting costs nor the quality and instead taking a hit at the profit margin, like Xbox and Nintendo have done.

MS can't afford to increase the price since it will definitely take a hit on the demand for their consoles which already struggles in the face of their competition, sales-wise I mean.

Nintendo's console is already overpriced anyway with its ancient hardware and is long overdue for a price reduction. They will just delay any price cut planned due to inflation.
 

Loxus

Member
MS can't afford to increase the price since it will definitely take a hit on the demand for their consoles which already struggles in the face of their competition, sales-wise I mean.

Nintendo's console is already overpriced anyway with its ancient hardware and is long overdue for a price reduction. They will just delay any price cut planned due to inflation.
You explained it better than me.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
There's also the possibility of not cutting costs nor the quality and instead taking a hit at the profit margin, like Xbox and Nintendo have done.

The disc edition PS5 was already reportedly profitable since Q1 2021. So it's not like they're making this move just to offset that cost.

This decision won't make a big impact immediately as the console is already scarce and people will pay a premium, but in another year or so when they're more readily available (and there are more games on the competition) it becomes a worse proposition. You can say that by then Sony can bring the price back down again, sure, but by then the competition may also bring their price down further still.
 

MarkMe2525

Member
Ampere Analytics = Vgchartz. It's the same model. They take a subset of customers and survey them, then take sales data from a few retails. They then extrapolate this data to derive their estimates. I can't see how anyone can justify thinking one of these companies have legitimate figures while dismissing the other as they are the same damn thing.
 
So why don't we see Sony doing that then?
Their games 95% of the time launch with high quality and almost no DLC.

Their games are good because they have good developers. Did you enjoy GT7? Horizon? Will you enjoy Ragnorok? Do you think the devs care that there are $60 PS4 versions of their games?

Also, lol @ almost no DLC. Even if that was correct, which it isn’t, it sure as fuck is about to change as they admittedly embrace GaaS.

EA games are $70. Elden Ring is $60. Your argument is silly.
 

Loxus

Member
Their games are good because they have good developers. Did you enjoy GT7? Horizon? Will you enjoy Ragnorok? Do you think the devs care that there are $60 PS4 versions of their games?

Also, lol @ almost no DLC. Even if that was correct, which it isn’t, it sure as fuck is about to change as they admittedly embrace GaaS.

EA games are $70. Elden Ring is $60. Your argument is silly.
Why wouldn't I enjoy those games?
So can you name 3 PS5 exclusives that have DLC?
E.g. TLOU Left Behind and Uncharted Lost Legacy DLC.

Elden Ring falls short in the graphics department, which is why it's $60.

Now that you mention EA games being $70.
Why aren't you also giving EA heat too or is this just a Xbox vs PlayStation thing?
 

Loxus

Member
What ? this is absolutely rubbish lol. Plenty of graphically impressive games have launched at $60 since the new consoles launched.

Only a handful of publishers are doing $70 games right now and Namco isn't one of them so far.
You clearly don't get my point.
Sony is always pushing video game boundaries. We see this with their exclusives and the Sophy AI. Not to mention their games are always high quality.

Their video game budget is $100m, up to $200 in some cases.
Their are heavily investing in game development, studios, AI, etc.
Raising video game price by $10 is a small issue when you see Sony doing these kind of investments.

I don't get why your so concerned about Sony, aren't you an Xbox gamer? You should be concerned about Microsoft lack of high quality games after investing all those billions.
 
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Kiraly

Member
Imo, cheap guys like you are holding back video game immersion. If games cost $80-$100, devs would more than happy to work on all the tedious work.
Examples:
Enter every building,
More pedestrian, vehicle and environment variety,
Hundreds of animations,
More environment mobility, (climbing trees and scaling any wall/cliff like in real life.
Almost zero clipping,
No bugs, etc.

All these things would raise development cost, but people want game prices to stay $60 or get a price reduction.

I swear console gamers are the only people that want to pay less for more, especially when they are already getting a console that cost the same as a GPU alone.
Corporate fucking loves types like you so willing to bend over to pay more.

Here's a hint: The absence of the elements you describe have never been a result of lack of capital but time and labour.
 

Loxus

Member
Corporate fucking loves types like you so willing to bend over to pay more.

Here's a hint: The absence of the elements you describe have never been a result of lack of capital but time and labour.
Why do people like you have no reasoning or understanding?

They raised the price of their games and console because of development cost.
How is that so fucking hard to understand for some of you?
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You clearly don't get my point.
Sony is always pushing video game boundaries. We see this with their exclusives and the Sophy AI. Not to mention their games are always high quality.

Plenty of other high quality games are $60. $70 is not a sign of guaranteed quality, it's a purely publisher decision.


Their video game budget is $100m, up to $200 in some cases.
Their are heavily investing in game development, studios, AI, etc.
Raising video game price by $10 is a small issue when you see Sony doing these kind of investments.

Xbox and Nintendo are doing all the above you're describing, they're heavily investing in game studios, new hardware and they also have budgets in the high millions.

Sony is not unique in this.

I don't get why your so concerned about Sony, aren't you an Xbox gamer? You should be concerned about Microsoft lack of high quality games after investing all those billions.

And there it is. "You own an xbox therefore you don't get to talk about what decisions my preferred company makes".

Only, again, Sony isn't unique. They're not the only ones charging $70. Other publishers are too and people have been rightfully calling out the pricing bullshit since it's started.

The only difference is you won't see many people bend over backwards to defend the $70 price point for say Activision or EA, like how you are doing for Sony right now.
 

Loxus

Member
Plenty of other high quality games are $60. $70 is not a sign of guaranteed quality, it's a purely publisher decision.




Xbox and Nintendo are doing all the above you're describing, they're heavily investing in game studios, new hardware and they also have budgets in the high millions.

Sony is not unique in this.



And there it is. "You own an xbox therefore you don't get to talk about what decisions my preferred company makes".

Only, again, Sony isn't unique. They're not the only ones charging $70. Other publishers are too and people have been rightfully calling out the pricing bullshit since it's started.

The only difference is you won't see many people bend over backwards to defend the $70 price point for say Activision or EA, like how you are doing for Sony right now.
If other publishers are doing it too, why are you only attacking Sony?
At least Sony have a reason as to why.

This is like how you only post threads when the XBSX out performs the PS5.
 
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Are people really throwing Nintendo in the mix?

They are still selling a portable console (with HDMI video out) with Gen 7 hardware specs for more than $300

I mean it's overpriced since Day 1

LOL
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If other publishers are doing it too, why are you only attacking Sony?

?

I first quoted your post where you're, falsely, equating price point with the quality of a game.

Other posts before have also mentioned other publishers multiple times.

You're literally only concerned with defending Sony's honor here.

If you think the $70 price point is justified, you should be defending other publishers who agree to it as well. Not just one.


This is like how you only post threads when the XBSX out performs the PS5.

ok ?

:messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Just Do It Yes GIF by Rocky
 

Topher

Gold Member
Ampere Analytics = Vgchartz. It's the same model. They take a subset of customers and survey them, then take sales data from a few retails. They then extrapolate this data to derive their estimates. I can't see how anyone can justify thinking one of these companies have legitimate figures while dismissing the other as they are the same damn thing.

Not the same model. Ampere is an analytical company like Niko Partners where Daniel Ahmad works. They compile data and sell their reports to major corporations and potential investors for a hefty fee. VGchartz is just an ad-driven website with would-be journalists pretending to be would-be analysts.

I doubt you'll find anyone from vgchartz giving talks about the industry at GDC.

 
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Not the same model. Ampere is an analytical company like Niko Partners where Daniel Ahmad works. They compile data and sell their reports to major corporations and potential investors for a hefty fee. VGchartz is just an ad-driven website with would-be journalists pretending to be would-be analysts.

I doubt you'll find anyone from vgchartz giving talks about the industry at GDC.


THIS

I still can't believe people here keep talking about how "we don't know real numbers"....

Guess what: we don't have real numbers because Microsoft doesn't want to tell us: and that's because their numbers always suck compared to Sony and Nintendo.
 
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Why wouldn't I enjoy those games?
So can you name 3 PS5 exclusives that have DLC?
E.g. TLOU Left Behind and Uncharted Lost Legacy DLC.

Elden Ring falls short in the graphics department, which is why it's $60.

Now that you mention EA games being $70.
Why aren't you also giving EA heat too or is this just a Xbox vs PlayStation thing?

I give shit to EA because their games suck, doesn’t matter if they retail for $70 or $40.

Elden Ring looked great graphically to me.

Sony has released two games with micro transactions this year alone in GT7 and MLB. Hell, those two games and Horizon have different digital versions even more expensive than $70 that include more content. But according to you the devs should be content at $70? The games they release should be complete? Weird.

And Horizon will eventually have DLC just like the first game.
 

MarkMe2525

Member
Not the same model. Ampere is an analytical company like Niko Partners where Daniel Ahmad works. They compile data and sell their reports to major corporations and potential investors for a hefty fee. VGchartz is just an ad-driven website with would-be journalists pretending to be would-be analysts.

I doubt you'll find anyone from vgchartz giving talks about the industry at GDC.

You just compared and contrasted their method of making money, but what they do is one in the same. They are both analytic companies. One is backed by a bunch of capital and has broader scope but they are working with the same data.

Here is a quote from Ampere Analytics on how they perform their projections. What about this process is bespoke to them and unattainable for a company such as Vgchartz.

"Sampled direct sell-through data - Industry knowledge and experience - applying past trends in terms of marketshares, regional breakdowns, casual vs hardcore and so on - plenty of statistical analysis, regression calculations, market projections - Contact with industry figures - buy-side analysts, sell-side analysts who work with us on specific products / projects, manufacturers who work with us to project sales of their key titles - Retail checks - we have a team who talk to stores and estimate shipment figures for low-stock and hard to find items which we struggle to track with our normal data samples. Exactly how we get from these various sources of data to final figures differs from game to game and console to console and our exact methodologies are confidential for obvious reasons."

Btw, my point is not that Vgcharts are anymore credible, but that just because another firm has a bunch of dude bro capital to spend on the packaging of their bullshit, doesn't make it any less smelly.
 

Shut0wen

Member
https://game-news24.com/2022/08/26/according-to-ampere-analysis-ps5-sold-52-more-than-xbox-x-s/


A lot of people online are discussing this numbers as gospel but they don't really make much ense.

Microsoft CEO and Phil iirc, both confirmed that the Xbox Series was doing better than the Xbox 360 and the Xbox One. So we already have an idea what the floor for Xbox Series sales are.

In November 2014, the Xbox One was almost at 10 million sold

https://gamerant.com/xbox-one-sales-10-million-units/

Sold 1.4 million for November NPD for the month

https://xfdev.neogaf.com/threads/np...3-npd-data-error-ac-u-5.950407/post-142975576

And in December NPD sold 1.3 million

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/dece...ons-closes-january-13th.964549/post-147709046

That's just in the US, not including UK and the rest of the world. So Xbox would already be around 14 million by January 2015. Where we are at now August 2022, would be Xbox One in August 2015, so that means 8 more months of sales for the Xbox One, putting it maybe at 15 or 16 million.

There's no way the 13.8 million figure is correct, the Xbox Series consoles would have to be 2 or 3 million behind the Xbox One and that's impossible. i think the real numbers are somewhere between 17-20 million. PS5 was over 21 million sold last month, so it may be at 22 or 23 million by now, which provides a gap that makes much more sense.
Here in the uk retail shop i worked at, series s were selling shitload due to having more stock and a good flow of it while series x were selling out as well with a pretty slow flow of stock while ps5 did sell out within 24 hours we had to wait months for a flow of stock
 

Topher

Gold Member
You just compared and contrasted their method of making money, but what they do is one in the same. They are both analytic companies. One is backed by a bunch of capital and has broader scope but they are working with the same data.

Here is a quote from Ampere Analytics on how they perform their projections. What about this process is bespoke to them and unattainable for a company such as Vgchartz.

"Sampled direct sell-through data - Industry knowledge and experience - applying past trends in terms of marketshares, regional breakdowns, casual vs hardcore and so on - plenty of statistical analysis, regression calculations, market projections - Contact with industry figures - buy-side analysts, sell-side analysts who work with us on specific products / projects, manufacturers who work with us to project sales of their key titles - Retail checks - we have a team who talk to stores and estimate shipment figures for low-stock and hard to find items which we struggle to track with our normal data samples. Exactly how we get from these various sources of data to final figures differs from game to game and console to console and our exact methodologies are confidential for obvious reasons."

Btw, my point is not that Vgcharts are anymore credible, but that just because another firm has a bunch of dude bro capital to spend on the packaging of their bullshit, doesn't make it any less smelly.

How they make money is an important distinction as it tells us something about who trust their information. Vgchartz has been a resource for console warriors while companies like Ampere and NPD have clientele who pay them directly for marketing data. We don't know the models that either actually employ so not sure how we can say they are the same. I'm just saying one is more reputable than the other by far.
 

MarkMe2525

Member
How they make money is an important distinction as it tells us something about who trust their information. Vgchartz has been a resource for console warriors while companies like Ampere and NPD have clientele who pay them directly for marketing data. We don't know the models that either actually employ so not sure how we can say they are the same. I'm just saying one is more reputable than the other by far.
Damnit, I was trying to set you up for a gatcha moment. That quote I highlighted was actually from Vgchartz and I was hoping you would latch onto something from it.

Regardless, specifically regarding Xbox sales data, I have been shown no reason to believe either one of them based on the fact that they are working with the same data. I'm sure Ampere has good info in many other sectors as they can be usually confirm their estimates and correct errors, but no analytics firm can do that with Xbox products.

These numbers are about as good as exit poll numbers for elections. A shit ton of "reputable" firms pour tons of resources into getting insight to who has an edge, and have been shown they can be wildly unrepresentative of how an election shakes out.

Ultimately, we will not be able to convince one another differently so it's best to agree to disagree. Just like these estimates, we will not be able to find closure without any hard data.

Edit: I forgot to address your last post. It's a falicy to try to assume Ampere's greater trustworthyness based on other companies buying their info. As Vgchartz doesn't operate in that space, it's akin to saying salesperson A is a better salesperson because he/she sales more cars than salesperson B. All the while salesperson B is a real estate agent.
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed
Sony can afford to take the hit to, wasn't the PS5 made at a profit from day one?
Not from day one no. But from August 2021 they confirmed they were making a profit on every physical console, something that MS hasn’t confirmed for the Series X (or S).
 

yazenov

Member
VG charts have been the laughing stock of the sales threads across multiple places such as this site and RE. Some websites even banned them due to made-up numbers. Most sales enthusiasts who have frequent sales threads since the last gen knows that VG charts is a joke.

That site was always a joke and is still a joke. I can't believe some desperate people are trying to make it out as a credible website now that their numbers elevate the sales of their favorite console.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
You clearly don't get my point.
Sony is always pushing video game boundaries.

:messenger_tears_of_joy: Lmao when!? Do you mean pushing graphical boundaries on console? In which case, I agree. The last time Sony pushed any boundary was with TLoU on PS3.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Not from day one no. But from August 2021 they confirmed they were making a profit on every physical console, something that MS hasn’t confirmed for the Series X (or S).

And that was reported before all this inflation hit and costs started rising. I'd be curious to know if that is still the case.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
:messenger_tears_of_joy: Lmao when!? Do you mean pushing graphical boundaries on console? In which case, I agree. The last time Sony pushed any boundary was with TLoU on PS3.
Ehh
Rachet and Clank RA and the Demon's Souls you mentioned in this thread are at the top of the graphical food chain.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Anyone who is willing to pay, has access to this data. NPD is just another analytics firm and competitors of Ampere in some areas.

Except Ampere doesn't have NPD data. Or any reliable retailer anecdotal data, Vgchartz probably gets more retail insight even though its useless.

THIS

I still can't believe people here keep talking about how "we don't know real numbers"....

Guess what: we don't have real numbers because Microsoft doesn't want to tell us: and that's because their numbers always suck compared to Sony and Nintendo.

Always, i remember when the Wii U was a suc-.....

Oh, well the Switch came out...after Microsoft stopped reproting numbers company wide not just Xbox, two years later.

Damn. I tried to save your post but it's too filled with dookie to save.

Don't ampere have access to actual NPD data? That alone makes them very reliable and accurate.

No.

I forgot to address your last post. It's a falicy to try to assume Ampere's greater trustworthyness based on other companies buying their info. As Vgchartz doesn't operate in that space, it's akin to saying salesperson A is a better salesperson because he/she sales more cars than salesperson B. All the while salesperson B is a real estate agent.

Vgcharts even has a quote on the back of the Halo 4 box, but that didn't increase their trustworthiness because everyone knows their garbage.

Ehh
Rachet and Clank RA and the Demon's Souls you mentioned in this thread are at the top of the graphical food chain.

Flight Simulator is pretty good looking. It's more laid back as a game though.

Sophy AI?🤷‍♂️

We haven't seen Sophie used in a game where it would look impressive. GT7 is not the game to show case how good it is or not given the design of the game and the computer AI in it.

MS would be shouting it from the roof tops if they were anywhere near PS in sales.

No they wouldn't. Neither Sony or MS did that while they were losing, unless they were within spitting distance and that was only because they announced the same numbers than the other a month or less apart.

Usually if there's distance both if they announce numbers, do so without mentioning the other. That's WW sales or local sales.

Also Microsoft has mostly moved away from sales numbers as a whole, a side effect form Satya being the CEO. Halo 5 was the last sales we got regarding Xbox officially with numbers. The CEO mentioning that Xbox was the lead console 3 quarters in a row in that other thread, didn't mention Sony by name and didn't mention numbers.
 
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