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Ampere Estimatez: PS5 sold 21 million, Xbox Series sold 13.8 million.

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Give facts and sources for your claims otherwise fuck off. Your replies are pure console warring dude.

Higher costs are associated with larger chips... This is well known I dont need to cite a source for something that is common knowledge.

Its people like you with your petty baseless insults, who cant be bothered to read the entire thread that add nothing to the conversation.
 

Loxus

Member
Hey, so… y’all know it’s still early in the gen right?

I know Xbox isn’t outselling PS5 this gen we can all agree on that. However, Xbox will gain some serious ground if Sony keeps pulling anti-consumer moves.
So raising game and console price because of development cost considered anti consumer?

I guess Sony should reduce the PS5 cooling budget and give us the PS4 cooling instead to keep the price low.

And start making Crack Down 3 quality $50 games too, instead of GOW, LOU, etc.
 
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octiny

Member
They went with 36cus and a high clock rate because its cheaper then going with more cus. They could of gone with 44 active cus @1855mhz , it would of given similar performance but the chip would cost more, the bigger cooling system for the current PS5 is probably not much more expensive then a smaller one.

Receipts plz. How do you know any of this? Sounds like bullshit.

Bigger chips are generally more expensive, on the same architecture.

Hes right. It's common sense.

Bigger chip on the same process/arch = higher cost.

And to go further, cut down chips w/ more defective cores/cu's are sold cheaper than those w/ less defective core/cu's. It all comes down to yields. So yes, w/ all the precedence on what we've known for well, decades, if bulk quantity for said order is the same, the 44 CU chip will be more expensive than a 36 CU chip provided they are of the same architecture, node process etc

I think the real question is, how do you not know this in the first place when you make such a post like yours? You seem really butt hurt over well, nothing?

Give facts and sources for your claims otherwise fuck off. Your replies are pure console warring dude.

Yikes.

learn to use google to brush up on how gpu wafers are allotted
 
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Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
The sales your favourite plastic box has doesn’t diminish OR boost it’s quality. Especially with so many games going cross play, it really doesn’t matter.

The only people this actually matters to are investors.

Not really. If your favorite box is making good sales and business, it only makes sense that they invest on quality games which means better gaming experience for you as a consumer, assuming we're talking about a competent company or known for quality delivery.
 
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kyussman

Member
For the first time since release both consoles are available to buy in my local store here in the UK......and I'm sat here trying to find a reason to buy either one......honestly,there is not much out to excite me right now.I'm still waiting for next gen to kick in properly.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
Xbox has Bethesda, Activision, Gamepass and a cheaper more powerful console.

Playstation will still outsell MS this gen imo but MS will definitely gain some real ground.

Strong prediction I say. Any ground Microsoft makes is a win. I will be shocked if its 2 to 1 this time and if it is I don't know what ms can do to make ground on Sony ever.
 

phil_t98

Member
So raising game and console price because of development cost considered anti consumer?

I guess Sony should reduce the PS5 cooling budget and give us the PS4 cooling instead to keep the price low.

And start making Crack Down 3 quality $50 games too, instead of GOW, LOU, etc.

so Sony have reduced the cooling budget already and raised the prices

development costs go up yet but its only Sony games that have gone? so other companies are ok with the increase but Sony wants to pass on any cost to the consumer and continue to make as much or more profit.

no idea how you can defend it when other companies haven't raised anything.

you bring up Crackdown 3 and why? it isn't a bad game by any stretch. what about the order 1886? that was a piss poor game but it looked good and they charged 50 for it to. don't act like every game Sony release is amazing and Microsoft depot release good games. Microsoft last year was publisher of the year was it not?
 

Woopah

Member
Yeah, I guess thats one way to look at it...lol

In 2 months Sony basically wiped out any lead Xbox had in 2022.

I vaguely remember some ppl saying Xbox was leading in NA vs PS5. Thats clearly not the case anymore.

They took advantage of it...until Sony got things sorted out somewhat.
Xbox Series had sold more than the PS5 in the US in 2022 so far. That lead has not been wiped out.
 

Loxus

Member
so Sony have reduced the cooling budget already and raised the prices

development costs go up yet but its only Sony games that have gone? so other companies are ok with the increase but Sony wants to pass on any cost to the consumer and continue to make as much or more profit.

no idea how you can defend it when other companies haven't raised anything.

you bring up Crackdown 3 and why? it isn't a bad game by any stretch. what about the order 1886? that was a piss poor game but it looked good and they charged 50 for it to. don't act like every game Sony release is amazing and Microsoft depot release good games. Microsoft last year was publisher of the year was it not?
There is so much lost a hardware manufacturer would take. If materials and shipping cost pass a certain point your going to have no choice but to raise the price, use less inferior materials or sell at a loss and slower kill your business. It's common business knowledge.

Sony is currently the only video game publisher that continually delivers high quality AAA games. The quality of their games justify the price.
Iook at the new Saints Row game which cost $60, it would have been a much better game at $70.

You can't want this and that in a video game and expect the developers to sell it at a certain price after all the hard work put into it.
This is the reason why DLC was born.

Imo, cheap guys like you are holding back video game immersion. If games cost $80-$100, devs would more than happy to work on all the tedious work.
Examples:
Enter every building,
More pedestrian, vehicle and environment variety,
Hundreds of animations,
More environment mobility, (climbing trees and scaling any wall/cliff like in real life.
Almost zero clipping,
No bugs, etc.

All these things would raise development cost, but people want game prices to stay $60 or get a price reduction.

I swear console gamers are the only people that want to pay less for more, especially when they are already getting a console that cost the same as a GPU alone.
 

phil_t98

Member
There is so much lost a hardware manufacturer would take. If materials and shipping cost pass a certain point your going to have no choice but to raise the price, use less inferior materials or sell at a loss and slower kill your business. It's common business knowledge.

Sony is currently the only video game publisher that continually delivers high quality AAA games. The quality of their games justify the price.
Iook at the new Saints Row game which cost $60, it would have been a much better game at $70.

You can't want this and that in a video game and expect the developers to sell it at a certain price after all the hard work put into it.
This is the reason why DLC was born.

Imo, cheap guys like you are holding back video game immersion. If games cost $80-$100, devs would more than happy to work on all the tedious work.
Examples:
Enter every building,
More pedestrian, vehicle and environment variety,
Hundreds of animations,
More environment mobility, (climbing trees and scaling any wall/cliff like in real life.
Almost zero clipping,
No bugs, etc.

All these things would raise development cost, but people want game prices to stay $60 or get a price reduction.

I swear console gamers are the only people that want to pay less for more, especially when they are already getting a console that cost the same as a GPU alone.


wasn't the PS5 built on a profit? they reduced costs of the PS5 but reducing the heat plate? they just released another variant which no doubt will be saving more money?


Sony is the only game audio delivering high quality AAA games? that's subjective on what time of games you like.

Sony is the only company to raise costs of games and hardware this gen FACT

Also Sony charge for upgrading games from PS4 to PS5 which is not very consumer friendly is it?
 
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There is so much lost a hardware manufacturer would take. If materials and shipping cost pass a certain point your going to have no choice but to raise the price, use less inferior materials or sell at a loss and slower kill your business. It's common business knowledge.

Sony is currently the only video game publisher that continually delivers high quality AAA games. The quality of their games justify the price.
Iook at the new Saints Row game which cost $60, it would have been a much better game at $70.

You can't want this and that in a video game and expect the developers to sell it at a certain price after all the hard work put into it.
This is the reason why DLC was born.

Imo, cheap guys like you are holding back video game immersion. If games cost $80-$100, devs would more than happy to work on all the tedious work.
Examples:
Enter every building,
More pedestrian, vehicle and environment variety,
Hundreds of animations,
More environment mobility, (climbing trees and scaling any wall/cliff like in real life.
Almost zero clipping,
No bugs, etc.

All these things would raise development cost, but people want game prices to stay $60 or get a price reduction.

I swear console gamers are the only people that want to pay less for more, especially when they are already getting a console that cost the same as a GPU alone.
dancing with the stars television GIF
 

ikbalCO

Member
Glad to see both console thriving in their on way even under these not so easy conditions with global inflation and chip crisis and all that.

I own both a series and ps5 console so i am no part of the whole console wars of it all but i have to say, this forum is becoming a MS fanboyish in a very quick and toxic way.
 

Loxus

Member
wasn't the PS5 built on a profit? they reduced costs of the PS5 but reducing the heat plate? they just released another variant which no doubt will be saving more money?


Sony is the only game audio delivering high quality AAA games? that's subjective on what time of games you like.

Sony is the only company to raise costs of games and hardware this gen FACT

Also Sony charge for upgrading games from PS4 to PS5 which is not very consumer friendly is it?
We are in a global pandemic with an ongoing war. All this effects everyone, even Microsoft.
If you go in the supermarket, everything has risen. But let's only single out Sony for some reason.

What is anti-consumer is buying a company that makes multiplatform games and then turn around make that company only make games for your platform, depriving millions form playing the next game. That is what anti-consumer is, not the bs you trying to spread.

Like I said, if you want more, pay for more.
Which is what Sony and many other companies does. If you buy any software from any company, there are two versions. Basic and Premium versions, but again let's single out Sony for some reason.
 
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FritzJ92

Member
So raising game and console price because of development cost considered anti consumer?

I guess Sony should reduce the PS5 cooling budget and give us the PS4 cooling instead to keep the price low.

And start making Crack Down 3 quality $50 games too, instead of GOW, LOU, etc.
No not at all, but

Bragging about being profitable on each console sold, disclosing that you've identified ways to cut additional costs in manufacturing, raising prices to fund "better" games, and then turning around and raising console prices is pretty anti-consumer. If they practiced the art of STFU then we would just assume that they want to make a profit and weren't profitable.

Crackdown 3 is the worst example you could use because Microsoft spent a lot of money trying to make the cloud process work. Which literally says spending more on a game =/ better quality game.
 
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Loxus

Member
No not at all, but

Bragging about being profitable on each console sold, disclosing that you've identified ways to cut additional costs in manufacturing, raising prices to fund "better" games, and then turning around and raising console prices is pretty anti-consumer. If they practiced the art of STFU then we would just assume that they want to make a profit and weren't profitable.

Crackdown 3 is the worst example you could use because Microsoft spent a lot of money trying to make the cloud process work. Which literally says spending more on a game =/ better quality game.
This discussion is only going on this long because people only compare Xbox vs PS5, but when you look at this situation beyond Xbox vs PS5, many people will see the PS5 is still insanely cheap.

MSI Trident S PC gaming console is going for $800.
The Atari VCS is $400
The 2070 Super is around $500 and that's just the GPU alone.

Crackdown 3 launched with a price of $59.99 but people mad for paying $10 more for Horizon Forbidden West PS5 version.

I don't get it.
 

phil_t98

Member
We are in a global pandemic with an ongoing war. All this effects everyone, even Microsoft.
If you go in the supermarket, everything has risen. But let's only single out Sony for some reason.

What is anti-consumer is buying a company that makes multiplatform games and then turn around make that company only make games for your platform, depriving millions form playing the next game. That is what anti-consumer is, not the bs you trying to spread.

Like I said, if you want more, pay for more.
Which is what Sony and many other companies does. If you buy any software from any company, there are two versions. Basic and Premium versions, but again let's single out Sony for some reason.


yeah prices are going up with food and other things, yet Nintendo and Microsoft are not raising their prices? so Sony is the only company that this has hit? no its not. Sony bought bungie for 3b and forecast to still make 2b in profit this year.

yeah anti consumer Sony buying studios to but people defend it when hey do but to
 

Loxus

Member
yeah prices are going up with food and other things, yet Nintendo and Microsoft are not raising their prices? so Sony is the only company that this has hit? no its not. Sony bought bungie for 3b and forecast to still make 2b in profit this year.

yeah anti consumer Sony buying studios to but people defend it when hey do but to
Nintendo products are over priced and Microsoft can afford to take a hit to get ahead.

Also the hardware division is different from the software division, each has their own budget.
 
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phil_t98

Member
Nintendo products are over priced and Microsoft can afford to take a hit to get ahead.

Also the hardware division is different from the software division, each has their own budget.

Sony can afford to take the hit to, wasn't the PS5 made at a profit from day one?
 
There is so much lost a hardware manufacturer would take. If materials and shipping cost pass a certain point your going to have no choice but to raise the price, use less inferior materials or sell at a loss and slower kill your business. It's common business knowledge.

Sony is currently the only video game publisher that continually delivers high quality AAA games. The quality of their games justify the price.
Iook at the new Saints Row game which cost $60, it would have been a much better game at $70.

You can't want this and that in a video game and expect the developers to sell it at a certain price after all the hard work put into it.
This is the reason why DLC was born.

Imo, cheap guys like you are holding back video game immersion. If games cost $80-$100, devs would more than happy to work on all the tedious work.
Examples:
Enter every building,
More pedestrian, vehicle and environment variety,
Hundreds of animations,
More environment mobility, (climbing trees and scaling any wall/cliff like in real life.
Almost zero clipping,
No bugs, etc.

All these things would raise development cost, but people want game prices to stay $60 or get a price reduction.

I swear console gamers are the only people that want to pay less for more, especially when they are already getting a console that cost the same as a GPU alone.

What? Saints Row would have been the same game at $70. You think developers care whether their game retails for $70 vs $60? They care about making a good game.

Also, publishers would still rush games out and split content up into DLC/MTX/preorder BS just because they want more money.
 

Loxus

Member
Sony can afford to take the hit to, wasn't the PS5 made at a profit from day one?
This was Sony’s reason for the price increase.

PS5 price to increase in select markets due to global economic environment, including high inflation rates


This simple statement can't be that hard to understand.
 

DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
Strong prediction I say. Any ground Microsoft makes is a win. I will be shocked if its 2 to 1 this time and if it is I don't know what ms can do to make ground on Sony ever.
The X1 sold over 50M and did that with few first party exclusives and weaker hardware. X Series has none of those issues and since MS' success isn't tied to the number of boxes they sell. Customers will continue to get fantastic support no matter what. Look at the moves they've made so far this generation. The only 'win' I care about is tons of great games for a fantastic price.
 
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Loxus

Member
What? Saints Row would have been the same game at $70. You think developers care whether their game retails for $70 vs $60? They care about making a good game.

Also, publishers would still rush games out and split content up into DLC/MTX/preorder BS just because they want more money.
So why don't we see Sony doing that then?
Their games 95% of the time launch with high quality and almost no DLC.
 
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Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
Exactly what are vgchartz credentials vs ampere’s? 🧐

Vgchartz has been around longer and actually has some data, limited data that doesn't really give much of a hint as to what's happening in the market, but that's more than what Ampere has. Both don't give anything useful, though I find them releasing these numbers curious and out of character for the firm with the way they did it, and there's no transparency on their method.

Sony can afford to take the hit to, wasn't the PS5 made at a profit from day one?

It started making profit in April 2021 https://www.pcmag.com/news/sony-says-499-ps5-no-longer-sells-at-a-loss

This discussion is only going on this long because people only compare Xbox vs PS5, but when you look at this situation beyond Xbox vs PS5, many people will see the PS5 is still insanely cheap.

MSI Trident S PC gaming console is going for $800.
The Atari VCS is $400
The 2070 Super is around $500 and that's just the GPU alone.

Crackdown 3 launched with a price of $59.99 but people mad for paying $10 more for Horizon Forbidden West PS5 version.

I don't get it.

The Atari VCS and Trident S are Computers through. The VCS you can choose any operating system to put in, and it supports most expansions. Both are costly because of chip prices, design decisions, and form factor costs. You can get a almost double the power of the PS5 for $650 in an Xbox One (OG) form factor which is wider but shorter than a PS5.

Also people made fun of Crack Down 3's price, it was seen as a delayed hold over from 2014 from the Don M days.

I don't think we have enough evidence either way. Since we don't have Xbox One numbers past 10 million shipped, everything is a guessing game.

We literally have NPD numbers past 10 million shipped, I can't believe you are still strawmaning this crap.

10 million+2.5 is 12.5 million and that's not including UK and the ROTW, that 2.5 is only the US, the 13.8 million is impossibly low unless Microsoft was lying about Xbox Series selling better than the 360 and Xbox One, yet they have mentioned it more than once. Then you have to add 8 more months of Xbox One sales on top of whatever number you get for ROTW i holiday dec/nov 2014.

Sorry, the numbers are just bad, and there's all the proof you need provided in the OP.

You don't even NEED rotw either, you can take the 2.5 from NPD at he end of 2014, create 12.5 million, and starting from January 2015, go in each NPD thread HERE ON GAF, and look up the Xbox One NPD numbers from jan to August 2015, and you'll still get more than 13 million. That's just using US sales post the 10 million shipped, and the NPD numbers are sold through. That's without including ROTW UK, Germany, Japan, Mexico etc.

Imo, cheap guys like you are holding back video game immersion. If games cost $80-$100, devs would more than happy to work on all the tedious work.
Examples:
Enter every building,
More pedestrian, vehicle and environment variety,
Hundreds of animations,
More environment mobility, (climbing trees and scaling any wall/cliff like in real life.
Almost zero clipping,
No bugs, etc.

All these things would raise development cost, but people want game prices to stay $60 or get a price reduction.

I swear console gamers are the only people that want to pay less for more, especially when they are already getting a console that cost the same as a GPU alone.

We weren't getting any of this for $60, we actually ended up with incomplete unfinished games, with content missing or locked to the disc you had to pay for, with less impressive graphics and AI, less animations, and less busy city streets. Most games never had enter any building either.

If we weren't even getting the minimum anymore with $60 games, how would that improve at $70? We are still receiving incomplete unfinished games, we are still getting games with content removed, we still have developers that expect gamers to beta test their product for free. What are you talking about?
 

Loxus

Member
There's also the possibility of not cutting costs nor the quality and instead taking a hit at the profit margin, like Xbox and Nintendo have done.
You really think Nintendo is taking a hit on the Switch? That thing needs a price cut.

As for Microsoft, they can afford to take a hit. In fact, the position their in now they can't afford to increase the price because of the PlayStation exclusives.

As much as some try to say exclusives doesn't matter. PlayStation has some of the most must play games.

And with Microsoft, it console price vs console exclusive at the moment to keep momentum against GOW Ragnarok this holiday season.
 
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Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
For the first time since release both consoles are available to buy in my local store here in the UK......and I'm sat here trying to find a reason to buy either one......honestly,there is not much out to excite me right now.I'm still waiting for next gen to kick in properly.
I think that's a fair assessment, my experience of Series X has been very favourable, but if you don't feel enthused by framerates and resolution increases then there's little to say that these consoles are currently essential. If you're happy with an old system, put it off as long as possible, the deals will be better later (unless the prices get bumped, I suppose).

One thing that you can say is that if you've got the cash burning a hole in your pocket you'll probably get more now when selling your old system than you will in a year's time!

Edit: not sure what was funny?
 
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Topher

Gold Member
We literally have NPD numbers past 10 million shipped, I can't believe you are still strawmaning this crap.

I'm not the one pretending to know actual units sold through rather than shipped. So you can add up whatever comes after 10 million shipped all you want, but you are still guessing anything before that. That is just a fact.
 
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Loxus

Member
Vgchartz has been around longer and actually has some data, limited data that doesn't really give much of a hint as to what's happening in the market, but that's more than what Ampere has. Both don't give anything useful, though I find them releasing these numbers curious and out of character for the firm with the way they did it, and there's no transparency on their method.



It started making profit in April 2021 https://www.pcmag.com/news/sony-says-499-ps5-no-longer-sells-at-a-loss



The Atari VCS and Trident S are Computers through. The VCS you can choose any operating system to put in, and it supports most expansions. Both are costly because of chip prices, design decisions, and form factor costs. You can get a almost double the power of the PS5 for $650 in an Xbox One (OG) form factor which is wider but shorter than a PS5.

Also people made fun of Crack Down 3's price, it was seen as a delayed hold over from 2014 from the Don M days.



We literally have NPD numbers past 10 million shipped, I can't believe you are still strawmaning this crap.

10 million+2.5 is 12.5 million and that's not including UK and the ROTW, that 2.5 is only the US, the 13.8 million is impossibly low unless Microsoft was lying about Xbox Series selling better than the 360 and Xbox One, yet they have mentioned it more than once. Then you have to add 8 more months of Xbox One sales on top of whatever number you get for ROTW i holiday dec/nov 2014.

Sorry, the numbers are just bad, and there's all the proof you need provided in the OP.

You don't even NEED rotw either, you can take the 2.5 from NPD at he end of 2014, create 12.5 million, and starting from January 2015, go in each NPD thread HERE ON GAF, and look up the Xbox One NPD numbers from jan to August 2015, and you'll still get more than 13 million. That's just using US sales post the 10 million shipped, and the NPD numbers are sold through. That's without including ROTW UK, Germany, Japan, Mexico etc.



We weren't getting any of this for $60, we actually ended up with incomplete unfinished games, with content missing or locked to the disc you had to pay for, with less impressive graphics and AI, less animations, and less busy city streets. Most games never had enter any building either.

If we weren't even getting the minimum anymore with $60 games, how would that improve at $70? We are still receiving incomplete unfinished games, we are still getting games with content removed, we still have developers that expect gamers to beta test their product for free. What are you talking about?
Those devices aren't bang for buck compared to the PS5 but for some reason the PS5 price is a problem.


I already stated why games are lacking.
Developer aren't going to put in the time, than to sell the game at $50, $60 or $70.
The next-gen games some of us cry for, are $100 AAAA games.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
I'm not the one pretending to know actual units sold through rather than shipped. So you can add up whatever comes after 10 million shipped all you want, but you are still guessing anything before that. That is just a fact.

No, you don't have a single valid point here. You're trying to remove common sense in order to try and act like that 10 million shipped could be as low as 8 million sold-through (which you have argued before) but you and I both know that's nonsense, and the numbers still don't change. You also need to pretend that Microsoft was not preparing stock for the holiday sales rush which was starting two weeks after that 10 million shipped announcement.

But none of that matters, you can use your quite frankly unbelievable low sold-through number of 8 million, you are still going to get 10.5 million just using NPD alone for Nov/Dec holiday rush. Xbox One was also strong that Nov and Dec in the UK, sold past 1 million in Nov, and still was selling well in Dec, that easily puts it over 11 million, and then we have the ROTW, where Xbox One was still doing well in (in 2014) compared to the 360 that may hit 13 million alone.

But you can ignore everything except the US, and from that 10.5 million only add NPD sales from Jan to August 2015, and you are stlll going to be over 12 million units with just NPD alone, Ampere's numbers are too low and not accurate, period, no matter how much you claim "we don't know the sold-through for the 10 million shipped" what's next? Are you going to claim that MS only sold-through 7 or 6 million when they announced 10 million shipped? At some point you have to use common sense for these numbers.

Those devices aren't bang for buck compared to the PS5 but for some reason the PS5 price is a problem.


I already stated why games are lacking.
Developer aren't going to put in the time, than to sell the game at $50, $60 or $70.
The next-gen games some of us cry for, are $100 AAAA games.

Devs were selling broken games since 2008, get out of here with this "we need to pay higher game prices for devs to stop nickel and diming gamers" excuse.

Lol, why not just make the consoles cost the same as an Iphone 13 pro Max, $1200 will get us better games right? Man, some of you guys I don't know lol.
 

Eddie-Griffin

Gold Member
People seem to want to pretend that objective numbers don't matter, so they can act like the Xbox Series isn't selling, and they are going to great lengths to do it, for reasons I do not understand.

I think that's a fair assessment, my experience of Series X has been very favourable, but if you don't feel enthused by framerates and resolution increases then there's little to say that these consoles are currently essential. If you're happy with an old system, put it off as long as possible, the deals will be better later (unless the prices get bumped, I suppose).

One thing that you can say is that if you've got the cash burning a hole in your pocket you'll probably get more now when selling your old system than you will in a year's time!

I'd say this is the fault of a very slow transition to next generation releases that focus on the new hardware explicitly. There's still developer focus on new games being scalable so they can play on XBO and PS4.
 

FritzJ92

Member
This discussion is only going on this long because people only compare Xbox vs PS5, but when you look at this situation beyond Xbox vs PS5, many people will see the PS5 is still insanely cheap.

MSI Trident S PC gaming console is going for $800.
The Atari VCS is $400
The 2070 Super is around $500 and that's just the GPU alone.

Crackdown 3 launched with a price of $59.99 but people mad for paying $10 more for Horizon Forbidden West PS5 version.

I don't get it.
You are using selective reasoning to make your conclusions.

No one is comparing the price of the PS5 vs those products. We are looking at the PS5 in itself collectively, everything we know about Sony and Playstation. They have been bragging about profits, increasing prices in many categories, and healthy sales. Why is a price increase needed when you are extremely profitable, and already cut production costs?

Selective reasoning... Crackdown is one example of a game that offered a great single-player and a terrible multiplayer. However, if we are talking about the 59.99 price point then explain Elden Ring, Hades, Forza 5, RE Village, It Takes Two, Psychonauts... I can name countless games as good or better than HFW. Stop justifying the 69.99 (there are no justifications that logically make sense).
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
The X1 sold over 50M and did that with few first party exclusives and weaker hardware. X Series has none of those issues and since MS' success isn't tied to the number of boxes they sell customers will continue to get fantastic support no matter what. Look at the moves they've made so far this generation. The only 'win' I care about is tons of great games for a fantastic price.

Great points! I'm with you 100%
 
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