The US has never been progressive on climate change and environmental policy. In fact it has pushed back against progressive politics for the last couple of decades up until recently when they at least helped push through the Paris accord.
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China warns Trump against abandoning Paris climate agreement
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The US has never been progressive on climate change and environmental policy. In fact it has pushed back against progressive politics for the last couple of decades up until recently when they at least helped push through the Paris accord.
His allies don't think he is stable anyway.
Ether_Snake
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"Look, like I said before, the Chinese created this hoax to make us less competitive, ok? They're saying we have to stay in the Paris protocol, we have to stay, or else the world will melt. That's what they said! Can you believe it? China! Not France or Germany, Chine-a! And people said I was crazy or lying when I said it was the Chinese who made all of this up. This is the proof right there folks, and we're getting out of the Paris climate deal, I guarantee it. I guarantee it. We're getting out."
That's more or less how it will go.
That's more or less how it will go.
computers putin'
Member
Wow, China speaking sense, I thought they'd try to follow suit if Trump pulled the U.S. from the agreement.
GuessMyUserName
Member
We should all be supporting Trump how to completely air seal his apartment.
This.
PdotMichael
Banned
Looking at this and other related threads I would say he panders to the GAF demographics.
It doesn't seem right for the rest of the world to pull extra weight to make up for an uncooperative US. Perhaps the best solution is economic sanctions against countries who don't contribute to reducing emissions.
Of course that'd further Trump's claim that climate change is a hoax, but if that's what it takes for a Trump-led US to agree...
Of course that'd further Trump's claim that climate change is a hoax, but if that's what it takes for a Trump-led US to agree...
There seems to be a LOT of that going on right now, people acting like the USA was the garden of eden or something for the last few years :/
Hmm, I mean, I guess a lot of things will look like Garden of Eden when compared to the fascism that will be installed in January next year.
oneofthose
Banned
when was the US the good guys?
People were pleased the USA was making positive progression. And now all of that is going to be undone.
America is one of the worst violators of human rights every year, yes Trump is significantly worse, but let's not pretend America was ever in the "good guy" side.
CrispyBoar
Banned
He better, or the rest of the world will make the U.S. suffer with sanctions.
Feels like people are focusing too much on China's (and Russia's) potential hypocricy and obfuscation instead of the point that China is trying to hammer into Trump. Regardless of how well or badly China handles it, Trump continuing with this stance is disastrous for everyone, simple as that. So China's words are extremely important despite the underlying intent.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
What a world we live in.
Citation needed? Every piece of evidence I've seen over the past 5 years prove that they do.
They're one of if not the biggest investor in green energy on the planet.
This thread keeps getting worse.
gee I wonder why they want to move to non-polluting energy resources
AstroNut325
Member
That only says that China has it really bad when it comes to pollution right now. This is a direct result of them going through their industrial revolution. This is different from them not caring. If they didn't care, why are they the world's leader when it comes to bringing renewable energy sources online? Why are they investing into renewable energy at 2-3x the amount and pace of the United States?
Edit:
I'm actually writing a paper on this particular topic for a class in my MBA program!
This is the reason why they're heavily investing and supporting green energy. It also makes financial sense which doesn't hurt.
SciencePilot
Member
You know, it's times like this I bet Trump is really feeling the whole weight of the world on his shoulders. It's one thing to tweet little conspiracy theories about China. It's another thing entirely to have the actual country of China call you out.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
What sort of upside down world are we living in when it's China telling the US to care about the environment?
Well if they are that's great. However they have the benefit of having access to the technology that other countries utilized to reduce their pollution as they went through their own industrial revolutions. So I guess the question is are they using existing technologies to reduce their footprint? It doesn't appear so but educate me if I'm wrong.
dragonelite
Member
AstroNut325
Member
Their overall footprint is getting larger as they number of people in China begin to earn decent wages and live middle class lifestyles increases. Their government recognizes this and is taking proactive steps to ensure they peak coal usage by 2020 and are investing more into renewable tech than any other country on the planet.
Source 1: http://energypost.eu/chinas-electricity-mix-changing-fast-co2-emissions-may-peaked/
Source 2: https://www.cigionline.org/sites/default/files/fixing_climate_governance_policy_brief_no6_0.pdf
Edit:
In 2015, the United States invested about $44 billion into renewable energy/tech. China was close to $300 billion!
True. The USA has ALWAYS been that evil machiavellian bad guy when it comes to climate change/environmental progress. It's a miracle Ralph Nader and company even got Nixon to sign the EPA into law back in the 70s before the neocons rose to power or else we and the world would be even more fucked than we are now (and of course the Republicans in power want to gut that as much as they can).
No, the US is and always has been the bad guy in this story. The Obama years, while good for progress concerning this issue, is only a brief period of time.
paradise_circus
Member
the catalatyc converters to reduce lethal and poisonous emission was also heavily pushed by us companies and government.
however, the US really lacked in the last 2 to 3 decades.
Muppet of a Man
Member
The darkest timeline where china and Russia are good and the USA are bad.
paradise_circus
Member
meanwhile, the annual carbon emission worldwide is on the same level for three years in the row while the worldwide economy is growinng.
it really looks like the co2 emission peaked and the reduction of it is just another step. china is doing its part by forcing it even more to be green. the trump administration should not neglect that. tbh, they cant because solar panels are even cheaper nowadays than fuel.
but be even more ballsy and make a competition out of it.
https://www.ft.com/content/7e3935ac-a9d4-11e6-a0bb-97f42551dbf4
it really looks like the co2 emission peaked and the reduction of it is just another step. china is doing its part by forcing it even more to be green. the trump administration should not neglect that. tbh, they cant because solar panels are even cheaper nowadays than fuel.
but be even more ballsy and make a competition out of it.
https://www.ft.com/content/7e3935ac-a9d4-11e6-a0bb-97f42551dbf4
It's all relative. If we were bad before, we are worse now. It's just that simple.
It was not the garden of eden but it was finally improving for once.
ebullientprism
Member
The pushback against climate change inside US is something I just dont understand. Lobbying by oil firms I get, so I get politicians saying dumb things because their paymasters tell them to.
Why are common people against it? Like what is the downside here. Its basically this -
in reality.
Like what are your negatives? At least with creationism I can understand the religious pushback.
Why are common people against it? Like what is the downside here. Its basically this -
in reality.
Like what are your negatives? At least with creationism I can understand the religious pushback.
The pushback against climate change inside US is something I just dont understand. Lobbying by oil firms I get, so I get politicians saying dumb things because their paymasters tell them to.
Why are common people against it? Like what is the downside here. Its basically this -
in reality.
Like what are your negatives? At least with creationism I can understand the religious pushback.
People with jobs in oil and coal. Plus the lobbying you mentioned.
ebullientprism
Member
Yeah but those people are a tiny tiny tiiiiiiny fraction of your country. And yet I have seen polls that show somewhere from 1/3 to half the country doesnt believe in it. That is bonkers.
Jobs in coal are gonna die either way thanks to competition from natural gas and solar energy.
Yes but they are enough to sway certain states in our elections, unfortunately. The fact that 1/3 of this country doesn't believe is a testament as to how effective right wing media is.
The solution to global warming is inherently "anti-growth" or whatever, i.e. very much against the fundamental American ideology of unrestrained capitalism, mass consumption, and small government. The solution to global warming is the anti-thesis to US society.
Global warming and climate change provides challenges that a capitalist society to the extent that the US is cannot meet in its past and present form. Infrastructure, consumerism, growth, materialism, small government, etc. are all so ingrained into the fabric of what it means to "American" that I don't see how the US would ever be able to change
I'd love to be proven wrong, but I've given up after 20 years of following the country's developments. The country is one of the richest in the world and cannot even provide basic healthcare for its citizens, fix its gun laws, or move sufficiently on reducing carbon emissions.
TheRealTalker
Banned
Current map of the Paris Agreement
Spain, Israel, UK, Finland, Qatar, etc... are of those that have signed but yet to join/enforce their agreements
Spain, Israel, UK, Finland, Qatar, etc... are of those that have signed but yet to join/enforce their agreements
TheRealTalker
Banned
likely they don't want to garner attention
I mean all these countries are signing it and it is for a cause that benefits every single person on this planet
they don't want to be one of those guys that want to be a sore annoyance
doesn't excuse other things but at least it is one less thing on the long list
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