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[DunDunDunpachi]

I'm still waiting for a decent reason for not having "any" difficulty options. As my view is stil l firmly of the belief that the fanbase don't want casuals to be able to play an "easier version" because then they cant shout "git gud" and "play something else".

You crossing your arms and you calling people toxic are two different things.

I can read the last 18 pages of the thread for myself. The desperate narrative-crafters no longer serve a purpose here.

You're not here to discuss the game or to offer improvements based on an understanding of how the game works. You're vampires feeding on an opportunity to call strangers "toxic". No one has to suss this out. Your own posts make it obvious.

No one gives a shit if you are waiting for a reason that fits your narrative. Countless reasons have already been given.

Your assumption about the fanbase is easy to disprove: the community that springs up around this game and the fan-driven wikis are evidence that everyone is in it together, enjoying the game together. I remember players even following unspoken "duel rules" when invading. Such a thing would not take place if the toxic fanbase was only looking to get rid of casuals.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

You guys literally do just branch off randomly discussing specific items and other "game mechanics", which you probably have to find out about on Soulsborne.com, and cant handle the idea of an easier mode.

Doom has specific items, specific weapons etc etc it also has several modes of difficulty. Don't come with that "specific items" & "Game mechanics" bullshit, all games have stuff in them that you generally need to beat bosses further into the game. You don't beat Parthurnax with your first sword in Skyrim do you? You don't beat the Icon of Sin with the pistol in Doom 2 do you?

The most black & white toxic community of any game.

good god these threads are so pathetically predictive. full of assholes calling "the souls community" toxic.

if you listen to these whiners, you would think that people who play Souls games are constantly posting threads bragging and clowning on people for not being as good as them.

in reality this rarely if ever happens. i see far more people yelling and calling people elitist and toxic FROM THE NON SOULS SIDE.

so it's like, here you are, bust into this community, you call it toxic, then you demand a game be changed so that you can enjoy it. when people explain ways in which the developers have given players options, you retreat into screaming "toxic!" like at this point you aren't even having a conversation, you are just labelling people. you have offloaded your argument to Kotaku or whoever traffics in such stereotypes.

it's amazing the total lack of self awareness.

 

[Danjin44]

I'm still waiting for a decent reason for not having "any" difficulty options.

Easy, FROM simply doesn’t want to, and last time I checked it’s their game and they are free to make the game however they want and you are more than free not to like it.

 

[T8SC]

You crossing your arms and you calling people toxic are two different things.

I can read the last 18 pages of the thread for myself. The desperate narrative-crafters no longer serve a purpose here.

You're not here to discuss the game or to offer improvements based on an understanding of how the game works. You're vampires feeding on an opportunity to call strangers "toxic". No one has to suss this out. Your own posts make it obvious.

No one gives a shit if you are waiting for a reason that fits your narrative. Countless reasons have already been given.

Your assumption about the fanbase is easy to disprove: the community that springs up around this game and the fan-driven wikis are evidence that everyone is in it together, enjoying the game together. I remember players even following unspoken "duel rules" when invading. Such a thing would not take place if the toxic fanbase was only looking to get rid of casuals.

For someone who's read the previous 18 (19) pages and then followed up with "You're not here to discuss the game or to offer improvements", clearly shows you ain't read my posts from a few days ago when I offered up how the changes to SotFS clearly showed that the game "can" be altered after several posts declaring the "whole" game would need a rebuild and wouldn't work etc.

So therefore the game(s) can be altered, SotFS proves this, all it requires is that we have basically two options

Dark Souls 2 vanilla for the git gud crowd
Dark Souls SotFS which would be the altered easier version. (Im using SotFS name as an example that the game was different from vanilla and therefore could be different and thereby easier.

Nope, you're right though, I've offered no viable "improvements" which by the way, are very opinion based no matter what they are.

I've also never discussed the game, never mentioned SotFS and its many many changes including a small list a few pages back.

So how about, next time you try to write an intelligent response, research prior.

As for the toxic comments, well I'm sorry but all this has been is a bunch of responses crying how the game cannot be changed because we don't have self control to not select easy ourselves and therefore we don't want the temptation. Essentially. Followed of course by "git gud" and "Play. Something. Else" - Full stops included.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Oh no the churchmarms can't handle their edgy contrarian opinions spinning in the mud. Let's double down on more edgy, broad-brush statements about the community! Shockface. Meanwhile Souls fans will continue enjoying one another's company in a thriving and diverse community. This feels more like fanboys trying to convince themselves of their fanfiction instead of an actual fruitful discussion that leads somewhere.

Why doesn't Demon's Souls remake have a first person mode? Clearly the community wants to exclude gamers who dislike third person camera.

For someone who's read the previous 18 (19) pages and then followed up with "You're not here to discuss the game or to offer improvements", clearly shows you ain't read my posts from a few days ago when I offered up how the changes to SotFS clearly showed that the game "can" be altered after several posts declaring the "whole" game would need a rebuild and wouldn't work etc.

So therefore the game(s) can be altered, SotFS proves this, all it requires is that we have basically two options

Dark Souls 2 vanilla for the git gud crowd
Dark Souls SotFS which would be the altered easier version. (Im using SotFS name as an example that the game was different from vanilla and therefore could be different and thereby easier.

Nope, you're right though, I've offered no viable "improvements" which by the way, are very opinion based no matter what they are.

I've also never discussed the game, never mentioned SotFS and its many many changes including a small list a few pages back.

So how about, next time you try to write an intelligent response, research prior.

As for the toxic comments, well I'm sorry but all this has been is a bunch of responses crying how the game cannot be changed because we don't have self control to not select easy ourselves and therefore we don't want the temptation. Essentially. Followed of course by "git gud" and "Play. Something. Else" - Full stops included.

Your suggestion could've come out of a gumball machine.

Nice try though. I can see that even when presented with an opportunity to show civility and prove me wrong, you doubled down on the narrative.

Waste. Of. Electricity. You are what make communities toxic. Project on someone else, manlet.

 

[T8SC]

good god these threads are so pathetically predictive. full of assholes calling "the souls community" toxic.

Assshole huh...

 

[Saruhashi]

I'm still waiting for a decent reason for not having "any" difficulty options. As my view is stil l firmly of the belief that the fanbase don't want casuals to be able to play an "easier version" because then they cant shout "git gud" and "play something else".

What are you on about?

In your own posts you acknowledged that summons make the game easier.

Thats just one of a few ways of making the game easier.

So you are not simply arguing "you need ways to make the game easier". You're arguing that the method of making the game easier should be done on your terms.

"Make the game easier!"

There are already ways to do that within the game.

"Noooo that's too hard. I just want to select Easy Mode on the menu screen."

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Assshole huh...

well what do you call someone who just rants about how horrible everyone else is?

also i think you are projecting a lot into "Git good". it is a term of encouragement. YOU CAN DO IT! you don't suck! you can actually get through these games. but it takes effort.

what you seem to think (and a lot of other "Easy mode" demanders say the same thing) is that "Git good" means "Hahah i'm better than you and you suck". That's not what it is. It means "You can do it, just keep trying"

You are projecting because you have this in-built bias against the "Souls community". You should have thicker skin around this tbh.

 

[Dr. Claus]

You guys literally do just branch off randomly discussing specific items and other "game mechanics", which you probably have to find out about on Soulsborne.com, and cant handle the idea of an easier mode.

Doom has specific items, specific weapons etc etc it also has several modes of difficulty. Don't come with that "specific items" & "Game mechanics" bullshit, all games have stuff in them that you generally need to beat bosses further into the game. You don't beat Parthurnax with your first sword in Skyrim do you? You don't beat the Icon of Sin with the pistol in Doom 2 do you?

The most black & white toxic community of any game.

You are openly deriding and insulting people who don't share your opinion. Fans give you reasons why they don't think there should be an easy mode and you insult them instead. You are the one being toxic here, mate.

 

[Saruhashi]

Grinding and farming is just... no. If that's what anybody needs, better use a trainer to get the souls you need and spend the slaving away grinding time playing the game instead.

You acknowledge that grinding and farming DO make the game easier though.

Combined with summons and specific types of builds I think we can at least agree that the game has many options already to make things easier.

So this only raises the question of what an easy mode should actually be.

Summons can easily take huge chunks out of a boss health bar so there's something like "give the bosses less HP" right there. Already in the game.

Now it just feels like we are arguing that the only valid way of making a game easier is through menu choices.

What if Souls games had an option in the settings menu to turn on "Summon Mode" where you automatically get a summon every time you enter a boss battle. Would you consider that to be an easy mode?

The only difference I am seeing now is that the game offers options but since they are chosen or sought out "in game", rather than through menus, they somehow don't count?

 

[Airola]

NO. They don't want it to be offered to others. That's the fucking point you keep trying to disguise again and again in all sort of increasingly pathetic excuses, constantly trying to narrowly redefine what exactly it is that they lose, to no avail.

- I don't want you offering me this option"

- Cool, because I ain't offering it to you. This is for other people that are not you.

- But if its there, even if I don't want it or will never take it, it's mere existence of use to others will ruin my game, because my joy is hard linked to it not existing for everybody.


See how absurdly pathetic this proposition is?

And again, there's the strawman.

You again make the claim that someone is bothered the option is there for someone else.

People are fine with Doom offering easy difficulty.
People are fine with other games offering easy difficulty.
People are NOT fine with this game offering easy difficulty.

They want the experience for these games to be unapologizingly hard, which Doom and those other games aren't. They can be super hard, but they can't ever be unapologizingly hard.
The game and the devs would apologize the game's tough and rough minimum difficulty the moment it offers an easy mode.

The game got its fans and the series built its brand by having that exact unapologizing difficulty. The non-existence of an easy mode is part of the game. It is it's actual feature. It's part of the game's presentation. It is there by an actual design choice. There is no way around that.

I am defending the integrity and the philosophy of these games without even wanting to play them and not being a fan of them. So your claim of not wanting an easy mode for Souls games coming from the will to deny others than me to experience has zero ground to it.

Sure, sure. Just reread the previous answer as many times as you need.

Yeah, still wrong. Completely wrong.

Amazingly lame rigmarole you mounted there. I guess that's why you get "need", "ask" and "demand" all interchangeably mixed and confused in your brain.

Oh, yes, you only "support" the people who need and ask and demand.

The real point you can't avoid keeps being exactly the same: the currently existing ways of having an easier experience didn't take anything from the experience of the players that didn't want them.

What is irrelevant is if the existence of those ways came from inside or outside the game. Their mere existence didn't change the players experience.

The proposition "but it would if they were an option in the game, because then the players that don't want them and wouldn't use them would be affected by having a choice they won't use that's focused at others" is beyond idiotic.

The currently existing ways ARE NOT PART OF THE GAME.
When you buy the game and start playing it, those existings ways are not there. They are not in the menu screen. They are not in the options. They are not part of the game. They are not part of the experience. When an "EASY MODE" is written and choosable in the menu screen or in the options, it becomes part of the game. The menu screen is part of the presentation of the game. The options screen is part of the presentation of the game. It is a different thing to launch a game that says right there in the title screen and main options that this game has a choice to be played easier. Whatever cheats and trainers others make does not change the initial presentation of the game. Those cheats and trainers will become an option only after downloading and installing whatever needs to be downloaded and installed.

You - do - not -understand - the - philosophy - and - the - integrity - of - these - games - at - all. Which is really odd because even I do even though I don't like playing them and I'm not a fan of them.

To me the IDEA of those games is extremely important to preserve. I wouldn't play them but I appreciate the idea a lot.

With a choosable EASY MODE the unapologizingly dreadful experience becomes only a dreadful experience at maximum. It's like a Mike Tyson who would tell you he's always ready to fight less hard if you want and even would do it if you asked. It wouldn't be the legendary unapologizingly dreadful opponent anymore.

The option to choose an easy mode would always be there and would be part of the presentation of the game all the time and the game would then be presented as "not necessarily a tough game" instead of unapologizingly tough game.

The addition of an EASY MODE button in the menu screen or in the options would be there every time you go to the menu and options after failing or launching the game again. Part of the designed presentation of the game is that when you quit the game because it's tough and start it again, it offers you the exact same level of difficulty you had trouble with the last time. The game will present no way to offer an easier way to go through it. That option has been excluded from the game by a design choice. The devs know the importance of presentation and that is how they want to present the game to everyone. And that presentation is what has hooked a lot of people into playing those games and that presentation is a huge part of why they love it.

Part of the designed presentation of the game is to not give the player a thought that the difficulty could be changed lower. And the fact that there are people needing, asking, wanting, demanding etc easy mode to be added just prove how important part of the presentation that actually is. They have a different feel of dread about those games exactly because they know there is no easy mode included. They want a game that loses that sense of dread. They want the dread to be optional when the intended design and presentation has always been that the dread is not optional. They want a different game. And good for them, there are plenty of games to choose from that offer something else. No need to change a carefully designed experience a lot of people love.

Sure, it is exactly the same fucking thing to say I support the people that ask for an easier experience than saying I'm "demanding the devs". GTFO

If there are people who demand or ask or need this change to be made and you support them, then there is no difference.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Based on the conversations in this thread, I wouldn't bother discussing any videogame or any topic, really, with those who are promoting this narrative of "if you don't like the thing we want the developer to do, you're toxic". Such people are to be avoided. They don't build communities up. They are the younger siblings who tattle to Mommy, the nosy classmate who calls the cops on the house-party they weren't invited to.

I can't find a single "toxic" Souls fan in this thread, just a bunch of passionate gamers who are defending themselves against collectivist accusations and doing their best to dispel ad hominems against themselves and against the game series they like. And for their efforts, they too are "toxic", just more proof that the community itself is toxic.

Huh. Seems like the churchmarms are the problem here, not the "toxic" Souls community. This sort of exchange is not how good-faith arguments go. There also seems to be an (unchallenged) assumption that GAFers Who Like Souls = Souls community. This is just the brainlets defaulting to their collectivist thinking, skipping several steps of logic so that they can arrive at the prize (browbeating others). GAFers are being unreasonably asked to answer for things they never said and alleged behaviors they may never have been a part of.

On top of all this, we've seen these exact tactics before. We're not new to them. GAF has been carpet-bombed by them before. Social Justice Twitter brainlets constantly try to whip people into a mob over hollow issues while blaming those who resist them as "toxic".

These sort of people are poison to every community and conversation they join. They only show up to tell you how bad you are for personal gratification, and the fact that the thread keeps going in circles is their desire.

 

[Saruhashi]

The most black & white toxic community of any game.

There it is once again.

The supposed concern about games having options manifesting itself as insults towards the community that like those games.

Almost as if your issue is actually with the community and nothing to do with options in the game at all.

Summons make the game easier.
That is objectively true.

So you are either arguing that they don't make it easy enough or that since it's not an option in a settings menu it somehow doesn't count.

The game DOES have difficulty options. They are just part of the gameplay itself instead of being something you just "click" on a menu outside of the gameplay.

 

[Airola]

I'm still waiting for a decent reason for not having "any" difficulty options. As my view is stil l firmly of the belief that the fanbase don't want casuals to be able to play an "easier version" because then they cant shout "git gud" and "play something else".

The "no easy mode" is part of the game's intended design and presentation.

Add an easy mode and the game's intended design and presentation is not that anymore.

It's as simple as that.


And no, I'm not a fan of these games. I don't like to play them. It's not because of the toughness as I wouldn't like to play them even on easy mode.
But I love the idea and philosophy behind the design and presentation.
So I'm not part of that fanbase you seem to dislike so much but I will absolutely defend the lack of easy mode in these games.

 

[Self]

I offered up how the changes to SotFS clearly showed that the game "can" be altered after several posts declaring the "whole" game would need a rebuild and wouldn't work etc.

Oh yes, I remember your irrational response and answered accordingly.
The changes in SotFS were made by From Soft, not by you. Nobody has ever proposed that From Soft is incapable of altering their own product. They could, but why? What is the necessity of changing a good, working product which fits their vision? Why should From rebalance a game against their own interest?

The funny thing is: They rebalanced the game and made it even harder.

 

[Danjin44]

Just watch how we gonna get same tiring thread when Elden Ring comes out.

But I tell you guys what, speak with your money. If you don’t like how FROM designs their games then don’t support them and at the same I will speak with my money I will buy their games because I like the games they make.

End of story.

 

[Saber]

You guys literally do just branch off randomly discussing specific items and other "game mechanics", which you probably have to find out about on Soulsborne.com, and cant handle the idea of an easier mode.

Doom has specific items, specific weapons etc etc it also has several modes of difficulty. Don't come with that "specific items" & "Game mechanics" bullshit, all games have stuff in them that you generally need to beat bosses further into the game. You don't beat Parthurnax with your first sword in Skyrim do you? You don't beat the Icon of Sin with the pistol in Doom 2 do you?

The most black & white toxic community of any game.

You guys are demanding the game to change simply because you can't beat them, while insulting those who are explaning the reasons for Soul games to be like that and still have the courage to call other toxics?

 

[nani17]

 

[Keihart]

Not to keep lying about what they're saying, for starters.

What's been said is the existence of cheats, trainers and mods that allowed other people to do what they want didn't took anything from your experience, as some of you are trying to use as an excuse.

That fairy tale that Souls games are isolated magical experiences where knowing there's no other way to progress than to overcome the set difficulty is an essential part of the experience, and the player knows there never was a possibility to make the journey and the bosses any easier... it's just a load of bullshit. There WERE and there ARE ways to make the game easier and a lot more: to make you a fucking god, a fucking Midas, a lottery winner, a superolympic athlete, ... a lot more than any easier option by the devs could affect the game. That already happened, and keeps happening right now. Did that ruin your game? other people doing the real "cake walking" with a trainer did ruin any hardcore fan game experience?
NO, it's just the "You cheated not only the game but yourself" walking memes of the world who are salty about how others played those games.

It is a lot worse for the integrity of the games that some people end up resorting to trainers than it could be for the original devs to add some kind of easier experience for them.

Adding an easy mode doesn't take anything from the people that already like it, but it takes from the people that are new to the games. By robing you of the option you have the chance to experience the satisfaction designed into this games despite your initial expectations.

An easy mode doesn't allow more people to experience this, it's robs them of it by giving them the easy way out. It would maybe allow for the game to sell to a wider audience but certainly not be a better game for it and more people would lose the opportunity of experience it.

Also, keep in mind that the game has difficulty options build inside the gameplay but they are only available to you if you are willing to engage with the content, nothing to do with mechanical skill, you are only asked to pay attention and engage without losing your shit.

 

[phendino]

Git gud

 

[FukuDaruma]

You - do - not -understand - the - philosophy - and - the - integrity - of - these - games - at - all. Which is really odd because even I do even though I don't like playing them and I'm not a fan of them.

You don't know shit about these games. You just played one for 10 minutes for fucks sake!
You just think it's "cool" for you to pretend that you know a lot and have a deep knowledge of the "philosophy", "core concept", "what makes them unique, untouchable perfect snowflakes", but it's all fantasy theory in your head. You have zero real experience and real knowledge.
Experientia docet. I may not know all the shit that are in these games, being obscure and obtuse as they are, but I played and finished plenty of them and with that experience I can form my own founded opinion. You just don't know shit about them, besides what you think you know.

the unapologizingly dreadful experience

Just look at this "unapologizingly dreadful experience" and this "philosophy", you know-it-all. I'm sure everybody else's experience got devastatingly ruined by things like this:



You can just literally lay down while others kill your bosses. But oooooh a fucking easy option on a menu (and it wouldn't even have to be that) is the real thing that would "ruin the game, because then it wouldn't be 100% exactlytyty ass it's been so far and then it would taint the untouchable magical fairy tale "Vision" of the holy "Creator".

I'm fucking sure the "unapologizingly dreadfully hardity hard" "vision" of Miyazaki was for somebody like Dunk to make fun of the fucking game laying down taking a nap while some phantoms beat his boss to death in the most hilariously unepic way.

If there are people who demand or ask or need this change to be made and you support them, then there is no difference.

Yeahh, go ahead fucking doubling down on the manipulation and shameless lying.

"I don't demand anything"... 6 times

"you are demanding and what you say is the same, even if you said the total opposite and never said that"


Without acrimony: Just fuck you. I'm not gonna bother wasting more time with this kind of piece of shit politician level of shamelessness.

Just go ahead and post your last mindless diarrhea and keep thinking you know a lot about the "core philosophy" of racing without having ever even drive a car. Meanwhile I'll keep playing the games whichever way I want.

 

[Oddspeak]

A game doesn't "need" an Easy mode unless the developer deems it. This should be the beginning and end of this conversation but it never is.

Video games are a luxury, and you're not entitled to a pain-free ride to the end credits just because it exists, or even just because you spent money on it. As an interactive medium, you need to and are expected to put effort in to reach the end, and it's the developer that decides how much effort is required, including the addition of multiple difficulties.

And frankly, an easy mode is almost never needed in Souls games anyway because there's always at least one busted build or dumb cheese strat for every boss. If you have the energy to bitch about an Easy mode, you have the energy to watch a speedrun and see what broken strat is popular.

 

[Airola]

Without acrimony: Just fuck you. I'm not gonna bother wasting more time with this kind of piece of shit politician level of shamelessness.

Bye bye then.

Based on the conversations in this thread, I wouldn't bother discussing any videogame or any topic, really, with those who are promoting this narrative of "if you don't like the thing we want the developer to do, you're toxic".

Yep, made that mistake alright

 

[Voost Kain]

Demon/Dark souls with an easy setting is called Kings Field.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

The entire point of these games is risk vs. reward. If you make them easier, you remove the risk. It doesn't work.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Magic is easy mode in Demons Souls.

And arrows . I remember killing that dragon with arrows. You can kill many strong enemies from a distance. Demon's Souls is fantastic, you could use many strategies to make it easier. You can fight like a brave a die or play like a coward and win.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

And arrows . I remember killing that dragon with arrows. You can kill many strong enemies from a distance. Demon's Souls is fantastic, you could use many strategies to make it easier. You can fight like a brave a die or play like a coward and win.

I poison clouded the shit out of fake Old King Allant.

 

[KiNeMz]

I'm still waiting for a decent reason for not having "any" difficulty options. As my view is stil l firmly of the belief that the fanbase don't want casuals to be able to play an "easier version" because then they cant shout "git gud" and "play something else".

The reasons is, this is what has made these games so successful. This is the whole reason why you want the easy mode. You want to experience what everyone seems to love about these games. You want to be part of that discussion. These games have the difficulty as a reputation. Take that away and the magic is gone. Diluted for your enjoyment.

 

[Keihart]

You can just literally lay down while others kill your bosses. But oooooh a fucking easy option on a menu (and it wouldn't even have to be that) is the real thing that would "ruin the game, because then it wouldn't be 100% exactlytyty ass it's been so far and then it would taint the untouchable magical fairy tale "Vision" of the holy "Creator".

I'm fucking sure the "unapologizingly dreadfully hardity hard" "vision" of Miyazaki was for somebody like Dunk to make fun of the fucking game laying down taking a nap while some phantoms beat his boss to death in the most hilariously unepic way.

You obviously are very emotionally engaged in the argument and not even searching for meaning and intent in what goes on in the game, the game is FULL of exploitable ways of beating it but all of them are left to the player to discover and use. Why you should ask? why does the game has all of this options to make it easier inside the game itself instead of a menu? because that way you are not robbed of your ability to overcome the obstacles, the summons are not free and even when you succeed at summoning someone to help you, who you get it's random chance. You can also get invaded ofcourse, but people cooperating inside the game to beat the game it's one of the roads you can take to beat it. That's why there are also messages in the floor and echos of other players deaths.

You are lost in your attempt to win the argument repeating over and over again that the game is hard and then saying that it isn't without making any sense, the game it's not hard, the game it's not really focused on just being hard but instead, it's about overcoming obstacles and being punished for errors. The game rewards you at every corner for making a little progress and also gives you several tools to make it more or less difficult on yourself. There is no need for an easy mode because the people that find it too hard are only failing at engaging with the game itself since the game already gives you every tool to make it easier, removing this engagement robs the player and the game of any purpose. If you don't wanna engage with a game's gameplay, why play it?

 

[Saruhashi]

Without acrimony: Just fuck you. I'm not gonna bother wasting more time with this kind of piece of shit politician level of shamelessness.

Bwahahahahahaha! YEAH!
Spit that dummy out!

Would you say this is...
...
The Dark Souls of debates?

Buddy, just spamming that Dunkey video isn't going to help.

 

[Saruhashi]

I'm still waiting for a decent reason for not having "any" difficulty options. As my view is stil l firmly of the belief that the fanbase don't want casuals to be able to play an "easier version" because then they cant shout "git gud" and "play something else".

It has already been explained to you.

Summoning makes the game easier.
Certain builds make the game easier.
Certain items make the game easier.
Farming souls and levelling up more can make the game easier.

The ONLY argument you've got is that these options are not available as a selection in some in game menu. They are still options in the game though.

You can engage in jolly cooperation or you can play solo. That's a choice. A choice that has a tangible impact on difficulty.

You can't deny that so it boils down to you saying "yeah but you can't select it from a menu."

As I said before, if the developer put in an option to select "easy mode" in the settings menu and that selection meant you got summons in the game (instead of organically finding them in the game and using them or not depending on preference) then that would objectively be an easy mode.

Except the game already has that option. You just have to enable it in game instead of pausing and going and picking it from a menu.

You are basically arguing "if I can't click on it in a menu to enable it then it doesn't count".

FukuDaruma even admits it too. Arguing that you can essentially sit back and let a summon beat the boss for you but then screeching because you can't enable that via a menu. WTF?

The game has difficulty options already. Choice made in-game that can make the game easier. You two eejits already admit that. So you are basically crying because it's not a menu option. LOL.

 

[HelpYouFall]

Pathetic.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

It has already been explained to you.

Summoning makes the game easier.
Certain builds make the game easier.
Certain items make the game easier.
Farming souls and levelling up more can make the game easier.

The ONLY argument you've got is that these options are not available as a selection in some in game menu. They are still options in the game though.

You can engage in jolly cooperation or you can play solo. That's a choice. A choice that has a tangible impact on difficulty.

You can't deny that so it boils down to you saying "yeah but you can't select it from a menu."

As I said before, if the developer put in an option to select "easy mode" in the settings menu and that selection meant you got summons in the game (instead of organically finding them in the game and using them or not depending on preference) then that would objectively be an easy mode.

Except the game already has that option. You just have to enable it in game instead of pausing and going and picking it from a menu.

You are basically arguing "if I can't click on it in a menu to enable it then it doesn't count".

FukuDaruma even admits it too. Arguing that you can essentially sit back and let a summon beat the boss for you but then screeching because you can't enable that via a menu. WTF?

The game has difficulty options already. Choice made in-game that can make the game easier. You two eejits already admit that. So you are basically crying because it's not a menu option. LOL.

I didn't really think about it, but yeah, summoning really can make the game a joke. I usually don't summon unless it's a two-on-one boss fight (FUCK Sister Friede and her daddy) because it feels like cheating.

 

[elektrokats]

If you can make it through Blighttown or Sens Fortress in Dark Souls and not die without even trying. Then what's the point? Those places becoming meaningless and will just be filler from one place to the next.

 

[KiNeMz]

Sekiro, Did it not win an award last year? I cant remember what that award was. Why was that? Is it because From recipe for game design works?

 

[FukuDaruma]

instead of a menu?

That is the only unoriginal way you were able to come up with for an easier experience for the people that ask for it? It doesn't have to be like that. AT ALL. It doesn't necessarily have to be about making enemies weaker or making you stronger. It doesn't even have to be about giving you more souls or blood echoes, more items, more powerful weapons or any of that, even if some of that could be too. It could very well be just well integrated in lore tips about things you're doing wrong ( the kind of things you learn reading fan pages on the internet or watching streams of people that already know all that ), but properly integrated inside the game. And that doesn't need to be "hand holding". There's plenty of things that could be done in subtle (neither obtuse nor spoonfed) ways.

Claiming that making it easier for the people that ask for it can only be "making it a cake walk", "smash R1 to kill boss at first try", "a baby stroll", etc. are just ridiculous exaggerations.

You are lost in your attempt to win the argument repeating over and over again that the game is hard and then saying that it isn't without making any sense

That's because you don't want to make any sense of it for your own argument. Same asf you saying the games being hard is an essential and untouchable part but then saying "they aren't hard" too...
They usually are, most of the time. Summons are some help and can lead to some unusually funny situations like Dunkey sets up in his video, but that's not the regular gameplay of a newbie.

As I see it, the problem with the games are being too obscure and obtuse for beginners. You say all that "it's not hard", "you just have to do this and that"... not realizing those are all things you already know because you've been playing them for years, watching god knows how many pages, threads, hours of gameplays from other people, etc.

the game it's not hard

Sure. Of course. Soulsborne games are widely known exactly for not being hard. That's what they are most known for.

The game rewards you at every corner for making a little progress

Of course too. Besides the most well known aspect of being not hard, the other thing that Soulsborne games are most known for is by rewarding you at every corner... with an arrow or an axe to your face.

You are basically arguing "if I can't click on it in a menu to enable it then it doesn't count".
FukuDaruma even admits it too. Arguing that you can essentially sit back and let a summon beat the boss for you but then screeching because you can't enable that via a menu. WTF?
The game has difficulty options already. Choice made in-game that can make the game easier. You two eejits already admit that.

Again with the false reduction to "menu" manipulation.

Summons open you to annoying hostile invasions too.
Newbies don't know shit about what builds are better.
Same with a lot of the weapons and items.
Grinding and farming are some of the worst cancers of the modern games.

The games are so obscure that you can play for months and have no fucking idea about what summons are and how they work. Same with the clones. Read some guy saying that he played like 10-12 hours of Mortal Shell without even knowing there was a parry mechanic, because the game doesn't tell you there is one unless you find the needed object, and the only tip to where it is just a blurred vision that doesn't suggest you should go there first or what is there. Another one said he played souls getting double damage without knowing it. These are not "magical and wonderful journeys of adventure and discovery", it's a videogame just being obtuse and clear cases of bad design in some basic aspects.

But if you read dozens of pages and watch dozens of hours of hardcore fan content that know all after playing hundreds of hours, then you will learn how the game is supposed to be played and the basic info you would have needed from the start to avoid hours, weeks or months of useless frustration. What a great solution the games rely upon.

Buddy, just spamming that Dunkey video isn't going to help.

"Spamming" what I stand for more than half a dozen times still wasn't enough for your thick heads to get it and stop lying about it, constantly resorting to strawmen, false dilemmas and all sorts of manipulations, "buddy".

This is really the last time I bother with this waste of time. Unwatching and ignoring. Now go ahead, drop some onanistic "winner" diarrhea and keep rubbing each other's tails on the "real big boy gamers" soulflake club.

Would you say this is...
...
The Dark Souls of debates?

It may very well be. Some hardcore soulflakes are certainly as obtuse as the games themselves.

 

[Lionel Richie]

No it doesn't. If you can't or aren't willing to put in the time to beat the game, then fuck off and play something else.

 

[KungFucius]

OP: "I want something to be more accessible to me that will not affect you in any way shape or form."

Fanboys: "no. If you don't like it exactly like I like it, fuck off or learn to like it like me."

 

[Saber]

OP: "I want something to be more accessible to me that will not affect you in any way shape or form."

Fanboys: "no. If you don't like it exactly like I like it, fuck off or learn to like it like me."

Its more like

OP and you: "Why am I not allowed to win this game??? NO, I don't want to learn!!!!! NO, I don't want to improve!!! And no, I don't want to lose!!!! I don't have time or interest to play games, I just want to press a button and win! Let me win!1!!1 Fuck you guys that like the game the way it is. I want that way!!!!

Ps: No one is forcing you to play this game. Enjoy.

 

[killatopak]

I‘m always for options but in this case, would you really remove something that is essentially the core of the game’s identity just to satisfy people who like easy games?

There’s a delicate balance between allowing your game to bring in new people to the franchise and satisfying veterans of the series and I feel like in this case, it would be more proper to cater to the veterans.

 

[KiNeMz]

The games are so obscure that you can play for months and have no fucking idea about what summons are and how they work. Same with the clones. Read some guy saying that he played like 10-12 hours of Mortal Shell without even knowing there was a parry mechanic, because the game doesn't tell you there is one unless you find the needed object, and the only tip to where it is just a blurred vision that doesn't suggest you should go there first or what is there. Another one said he played souls getting double damage without knowing it. These are not "magical and wonderful journeys of adventure and discovery", it's a videogame just being obtuse and clear cases of bad design in some basic aspects.

But if you read dozens of pages and watch dozens of hours of hardcore fan content that know all after playing hundreds of hours, then you will learn how the game is supposed to be played and the basic info you would have needed from the start to avoid hours, weeks or months of useless frustration. What a great solution the games rely upon.

You call it bad design.
I call it good design.

I love when a game doesn't inform me on how to do everything. No tutorials showing me every single little thing for every single mechanic. Its just silent. Left for you to discover. I much prefer when I discover something 100 hours into a game. That's fulfilling and rewarding for me. Especially when games leave all the deeper advanced gameplay left for discovery. But here you call that bad game design. You obviously have a different mindset to video games than I do, which I can respect and there are plenty of games out there to conform to what you might consider good game design.

 

[Self]

As I see it, the problem with the games are being too obscure and obtuse for beginners. You say all that "it's not hard", "you just have to do this and that"... not realizing those are all things you already know

Indeed. Proposing souls games are 'somehow' easy is not a serious argument. They are hard, all of them. That's part of their DNA.
Sure, if you have been down the chalice dungeons and maybe even beat the defiled beasts, then well... the main game may seem like a joke to you. That doesn't change the fact that the entry level difficulty is hard.

Although to say they are too hard is rubbish, a projection. They are perfectly hard, exactly as intended.

Souls games invite everyone to the hunt, the adventure, the thrill. Not everyone will succeed, many will fail.
The wold is literally filled with failed adventurers. They are part of the story, a warning sign. That's fine, it won't stop others from advancing.

 

[Saruhashi]

This is really the last time I bother with this waste of time. Unwatching and ignoring. Now go ahead, drop some onanistic "winner" diarrhea and keep rubbing each other's tails on the "real big boy gamers" soulflake club.

Haha.

Now, now. There's no need to be mean.

You've accepted that the games DO have options that make things easier. Significantly easier. Just that these options are chosen by the player in-game.

Now, nobody is arguing that souls games are perfect and your arguments at this point are basically "yes the game has options to make things easier but in my opinion they are not good enough."

That's a completely different argument altogether.

At the end of the day, there ARE ways to make things easier. The main problem seems to be that you think the only acceptable way to offer difficulty variance in a game is through menu options.

There is a pretty huge difference between "I know you can grind and farm to make things easier but I don't like doing that" and "the game doesn't allow players to make things easier".

There is a failure here from yourself and others to properly set out what "easy mode" could even be. Especially since the game ALREADY gives you ways to make it easier.

So say the developer decides to hide an axe wielding enemy behind a pillar and when the player walks past they get hacked to death. OK, if we are saying "that should never happen because it annoys ME" then I don't really think that can be turned into an issue of accessibility or difficulty.

 

[Saruhashi]

OP: "I want something to be more accessible to me that will not affect you in any way shape or form."

Fanboys: "no. If you don't like it exactly like I like it, fuck off or learn to like it like me."

The game is already made though.
So you are making the argument that "this game should be different" against people who love it for what it is.

Bizarre that people who's opinion is "the game is fine as it is no need to change anything" are characterised as "entitled" or "fanboys" or whatever.

How many examples is this now in the thread where someone starts off like they care about the game being "accessible" only to devolve into weird swipes at the games fan base?

Shit, you managed it inside two paragraphs.

The game has options to make things easier. This is a fact. These are in game choices rather than menu options. Summons, builds, items, levelling.

On top of that there is just loads of content online offering guides and help and tips and it seems like the devs really wanted that.

Yet still you have people demanding some nebulous "easy mode" that for some reason MUST be a menu option because apparently nobody has time to look things up.

What form does the easy mode take?

Give the player more HP or stamina? Why not just have more in game items or allow the player to level up an HP or stamina stat?

Give the enemies less HP?
Why not just allow the player to find special weapons and items that can reduce enemy HP more quickly during encounters?

Bosses are too hard?
Why not set up boss arenas in such a way that it's possible to find a bosses weakness and exploit it? Why not allow the player to summon NPCs or other online players to help out?

NO! The ONLY way to do it is to have an option in the games menus that says "easy mode".

The original argument in the OP wasn't about accessibility either. Pretty sure the OP outright states that they want a mode for "people who have a life" so it's actually about time.

Imagine going to a developer and saying "I don't have time to play your dumb game cos I actually have a life so ignore your fanbase, that I hate, and give ME an option in the menus so I can get this over and done with ASAP" and then actually thinking that you are not acting a little bit entitled there.

How is it possible that we are really arguing here that "I don't have time to play this game so it needs to make some changes"?

 

[supernova8]

Its funny, you know for a fact that 90% of the people that are hyping demon souls up are never going to play more than 1 hour of it before rage quiting

I bought the original Dark Souls and couldn't even get past the tutorial... took it back and traded it in for something else heh. Not my thing but I imagine a lot of people enjoy it so leave it be or add a new difficulty setting without affecting the original experience for others.

 

[supernova8]

<snip>

The original argument in the OP wasn't about accessibility either. Pretty sure the OP outright states that they want a mode for "people who have a life" so it's actually about time.

Imagine going to a developer and saying "I don't have time to play your dumb game cos I actually have a life so ignore your fanbase, that I hate, and give ME an option in the menus so I can get this over and done with ASAP" and then actually thinking that you are not acting a little bit entitled there.

How is it possible that we are really arguing here that "I don't have time to play this game so it needs to make some changes"?

I think you are intentionally making this out to be more complicated than it needs to be.

Loads of games have difficulty settings. This game doesn't. It's just on extremely hard mode and that's it. If anything this game is the exception.
Adding easier difficulty settings to the game would not affect the game at all for you. The default difficulty setting can still be there and you can still enjoy your game as is.

Since it's not really an online game aside from the asynchronous stuff (and you could just make it so it matches people on the same difficulty setting), there really is no excuse aside from "don't want to" on the development side.

I'm not going to swipe at the fan base. I do admire people who have the reaction speed and dedication to progress through and actually beat these games. At the same time, I'd love to have a more accessible version.

Assuming that the existing default difficulty is kept at the baseline and completed first, and then an easier mode is added later by tweaking things like enemy reaction time, enemy/player HP, enemy/player attack power etc. etc. there really is no reason to say no, aside from development time being extended marginally.

What you're saying is you don't want people to enjoy the game unless they enjoy it the way you enjoy it. That's just selfish and unproductive.

I'm saying I want you to enjoy the game you want to enjoy it, and then I want to be able enjoy it in a slightly different way that has no effect on your experience.

Hell, maybe after I beat it on 'easy mode', I'll have built up the courage to try it on the real difficult mode.

 

[FunkMiller]

Pages and pages and pages of people who just can’t stand the fact that a game doesn’t compromise its integrity to please them.

This is the same shit as the anti TLOU2 brigade, just dressed up in a different form.

The gaming community is full of whining little man babies who just can’t stand that a game challenges them, in one way or another. That it doesn’t accommodate their every whim and requirement. Absolutely pathetic.

Fuck off and play something nice and safe and easy, that doesn’t ever make you feel bad, or hurt your precious feelings, or ever make you frustrated or angry.

And then you can go on ResetEra and whinge about how the games industry is awful, and capitalist and boring - even though you are the exact cunts keeping it as held back and immature as it is.

 

[replicant-]

And please don’t tell me about coop MP. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

You may not have time for that, but fans do. No, the game does not need an easy mode. Either play the game as the designers created i.e. their vision, or don't.

Games do not need to be created so everyone can play. It is perfectly valid and reasonable to create challenging games.

 

[supernova8]

Pages and pages and pages of people who just can’t stand the fact that a game doesn’t compromise its integrity to please them.

This is the same shit as the anti TLOU2 brigade, just dressed up in a different form.

The gaming community is full of whining little man babies who just can’t stand that a game challenges them in one way or another. That it doesn’t accommodate their every whim and requirement. Absolutely pathetic.

Just to be clear, do you think people are asking to make the game easier by lowering the existing difficulty? From what I see, people are asking for an additional setting separate from the existing one. If they were asking for there to be only one, easier, difficulty setting then your argument would make sense but otherwise it really doesn't.

Surely a more constructive approach would be something like:

"Hey dude yeah it is a damn tough game but once you complete it you have a real sense of achievement. Why don't you try it on 'normal mode' and once you get half way through, switch it to 'Hard" mode and I'll give you some tips"

Your message seems to be:

"If you don't like it go fuck yourself, dickhead"

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but that's how it looks from an outsider's perspective.

 

[Danjin44]

This discussion will never going end.

Doesn’t matter how much some you guys don’t like it but the fact remains this is how FROM wanted to design their games.

And since when devs freedom to how they want make their own game became a bad thing?

This no different than people who can’t play a game because character design is too “sexy” and demanding to change the design so it can appeal to them.

This mind set of every game needs to have “mass appeal” will kill any creative freedom in gaming industry, why anyone want this?

I’m gonna say, fuck that noise! If the game doesn’t appeal to you, then too bad, thats life. Developers shouldn’t be force to make something they don’t want just for sake of “mass appeal”.