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[Dust-by-Monday]

yes because R&C is known to not fully utilize the SSD's 5.5gb/sec speed.

 

[Sosokrates]

There were some people early on who were saying xbox series consoles would not be able to do the fast rift changes in rift apart because of its slower SSD.
The thing about the PS5s superior SSD is that apart from faster loading we will never see its superiority because it will only be used in exclusives and theres no way to know these could not be done on the series consoles because they will never be on them.

 

[Stooky]

Horizon and GT started dev in 2017.

GOW Ragnorak started dev in 2018.

Coronavirus wasnt a thing until March 2020. The games were already well into production at that point.

nope. game development for next gen hardware dosen't work like that. As a dev im happy for the Ssd 5.5 bandwidth and I/O so are alot of other devs. Also you dont have enough information about the developement on RC to reach some of the statements you posted.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

They explicitly said the opposite.

Timestamped:

How dare them warn people these slower drives may not actually work with future games and you may eventually need the suggested speeds by Sony.

Damn thats some serious shots fired at Sony.

 

[Lysandros]

100%

Wasted effort on the IO complex now that games keep being designed taking mechanical drives into account.

That would be a nightmare scenario, a pure definition of the word 'trahison', an insult to his own creation. That would equally make 'Road to PS5' a snake oil salesman's perfect lie/propaganda. I still i have slight doubts that Sony is 'that' out of touch.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Glad my 2 TB Gen3 SSD, which is faster than the slowest Gen4 drives, is enough for the only game so far to really take advantage of the new SSDs, bodes well for PC gamers like me

All we really need is Direct Storage and developers to finally start using it. You would think Microsoft would use it for their games releasing next year.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

For a product they expect to sell 100.000.000 units ? SSD prices may go down but a slower one is always going to be cheaper. Say they spend 5$ more for the more expensive one (this difference is staying that way), that’s a projected 500.000.000 $ to have marketing be able to say „fastest console“.

Really don’t think so, Kutaragi is no more lol

 

[aclar00]

Sure, but I/O improvements are coming to PC. Why wouldn't they? It's not magic.

definitely, PC will and always catches up and generally through brute force. But i think closed systems will always have the initial advantage.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sure, but I/O improvements are coming to PC. Why wouldn't they? It's not magic.

Nobody said it was magic. But it IS a game changer, where this time 2 years ago, some PC gamers and the like laughed at.

We all win when tech gets pushed forward, no matter who initiated it. I know, it's true.

Glad people are now coming to terms with that.

 

[On Demand]

This isn't just a slower SSD being used. It's a slower SSD that's still taking advantage of the PS5 I/O.

So before certain green colored fanboys take this video as some type of ammo, please know that realization.

 

[MrLove]

SSD is just on part of the puzzle. The another big part is the I/O Complex and the systematic elimination of with all bottlencks. (File I/O, mapping and co)

MS didnt remove this bottlenecks.

Last big part is lossless decompression Kraken + Oodle with way faster than ZLIB.

We haven't seen anything similar to anything or anywhere until today, instant charging times in a completely new (asset) world with consistent quality. And we will that not see on Series X/S. That's why developers have called the PS5 SSD/iO complex a gamechanger

 

[Three]

There were some people early on who were saying xbox series consoles would not be able to do the fast rift changes in rift apart because of its slower SSD.
The thing about the PS5s superior SSD is that apart from faster loading we will never see its superiority because it will only be used in exclusives and theres no way to know these could not be done on the series consoles because they will never be on them.

Fun fact: this "slowest drive" has read speeds up to 3,600MB. Still faster than the slow speed of the Xbox Series Xs 2,400MB. I was wondering why there was no real mention of the drive speed in the OP.

 

[Sosokrates]

Fun fact: this "slowest drive" has read speeds up to 3,600MB. Still faster than the slow speed of the Xbox Series Xs 2,400MB. I was wondering why there was no real mention of the drive speed in the OP.

Says 3200mb/s on the box.

Thats still 800mb/s more then the series consoles though.

I hope we see some reality bending Doctor strange game next gen, we got the odd horror game last gen which would manipulate reality , but thanks to better io/SSD's something more like doctor strange should be possible.

 

[reksveks]

But i think closed systems will always have the initial advantage.

For performance/price, yes but for performance I am not sure. It's hard to separate the fact that you would design/code differently for pc (open platform) than you would for console.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

This was an excellent video by DF. Plenty of room to push this technology still. The engines may still be able to be tweaked to squeeze out even more from better performing drives, or it could turn out that, for the amount of RAM available in both systems, the SSDs may actually be overkill. Maybe if the RAM capacities on the consoles were significantly larger than just 16GB max - with less available for actual games due to OS reserves - we might be having a totally different discussion.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

For performance/price, yes but for performance I am not sure. It's hard to separate the fact that you would design/code differently for pc (open platform) than you would for console.

Really comes down to how different old generations long time ago with weird chipsets and SNES running at 2 mhz speed and 128k ram running laps around an Intel 286 that cant even do parallax scrolling or scaling. But now PCs and consoles have a lot of similarities.

Back then, a console with laughable paper specs worked wonders. In 1992, imagine what a SNES with a 486 66mhz cpu and 2mb ram could do.

Now, give a console and PC same specs and who wins and by how much?

 

[NickFire]

If you need the extra storage save your money get a slower drive and it works well with any current game.

Then if any future game actually requires the super speeds install them on the internal drive.

I personally love these tests

To each their own, but if I wanted to be moving things around from one drive to the other I wouldn't have bothered installing a heatsink, opening console, etc. I would have just bought an external instead.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

To each their own, but if I wanted to be moving things around from one drive to the other I wouldn't have bothered installing a heatsink, opening console, etc. I would have just bought an external instead.

I get that I personally have a 2TB 980 Pro in mine.

I just mean is people want to save some coin now and get a slower drive that works with every game today these tests prove they can.

 

[DarkMage619]

You do realize that it's the start of the generation. Come on ffs

Your comment on making a simple tflop console is going to look ridiculous as time goes on.

Come on Slimy, put some thought into your own argument, what your saying does not make sense in the long term. (Just say it out loud to yourself, then think about it for a few moments)

I see you and DarkMage619 came to the same conclusion on the Austin Evans argument, i think i know where this lack of logical thinking is coming from.

You need to get out of that discord channel and change some of the besties on your friend list ASAP.

There was nothing logical or rational about the responses people had to the Austin video Fishy. I might disagree with your opinion in many cases but to think you'd deserve someone knocking over your fish bowl over your opinion? That's going too far.

Slimy is simply saying that he thinks Sony could have used their engineering budget in different ways. It is clear that Sony was really trying to keep the costs down and that makes sense seeing how they have every intention of selling millions of these consoles. You also saw it with the cooler redesign. I think they did very well with the design overall but it is quite interesting to see how slowly games are written to the internal drive. Is that why updates on the PS5 have the lengthy install period after a download is completed? I wonder how that is avoided on the Xbox.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

I think everyone expects way to much out of fast SSDs. I honestly don't see things moving much beyond Ratchet this gen and it's not for talent, or specs but simply budget and time.

 

[Futaleufu]

Wrong, consoles don't constantly write data, only when you download games, updating games. Other then that it's only reading. And thats why the read speed is important over the write speed.

Quick resume/suspend functions do write a lot of data to the drive.

Really comes down to how different old generations long time ago with weird chipsets and SNES running at 2 mhz speed and 128k ram running laps around an Intel 286 that cant even do parallax scrolling or scaling. But now PCs and consoles have a lot of similarities.

Yeah, right.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I would like to know how much data a second R&C really needs. I think it would be quite telling if there were a way to test SATA drives.

There must be some crazy nvme pcie 4.0 to sata adapter on ali express!

It's more a Linus thing I believe.

 

[TGO]

I have no doubt that a slower drive can run everything currently released on PS5 just fine.
But those higher spec SSD are what's in the PS5 spec and if one developer decides to utilise it you're fucked.
So best stick to the recommended spec.

 

[Kazza]

Quick resume/suspend functions do write a lot of data to the drive.





Yeah, right.

Yeah, he really was right (no sarcasm) :

This is what passed for an amazing, ground-breaking platformer on PC in 1990/1




While the SNES had this:




Unlike today, there really was a huge difference in how PC and consoles worked back then. PC was ahead in some types of games, but console destroyed it in others.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I personally still wouldn't buy a slow SSD for the PS5. Maybe two, three years from now Sony releases games which actually use 5500 MB/S of bandwidth, and then if you cheaped out on the SSD you're out of luck.

It begs the question tho what type of games would actually NEED I/O bandwidth that fast. I can only reliably think of two: racing games and Sonic games. And maybe aerial dogfight type of games like Ace Combat, if they let you do that stuff close to the ground...

...tho technically speaking you can do that in Flight Sim right now, just without the shooting parts. And if the argument isn't about bandwidth but rather latency speeds, I still think most other solutions will do just fine. But in terms of PS5 the argument should probably be on making sure people don't get cheaply-built drives or drives with crap endurance ratings.

Those would be much worst for longevity versus having maybe smaller sequential read/write bandwidth (random read/write bandwidth is probably more important for gaming tbh, especially for non-linear games or games that want to give real non-linear movement across vast environments of different types very quickly in non-scripted fashion).

Just like that the comment section of the video is already full of clueless people making fun of PS5's I/O-SSD tech and Cerny. Mission accomplished i guess. If i were Cerny i would post an a mini article explaining the reasons. But knowing that Sony don't seem to care about its hardware reputation to the slightest degree this gen, i see this possiblity as low.

PCs have PS5 I/O complex embedded on them now?..

Let's just pretend that the hardware decompressor, coprocessors, SRAM, coherency engine and Cache Scrubbers don't exist and the external SSD isn't connected to them. That's the right thing to do.

Jesus Christ dude you are having a meltdown. Vid wasn't an indictment on PS5's storage I/O, just the narrative people ran with saying R&C couldn't run on anything slower than 5.5 GB/s.

And there was a LOT of that going around (similar with the UE5 demo from last year). Everything's gonna be alright so just calm down

 

[StateofMajora]

Wow I guess it doesn’t matter as much as we thought. Still wouldn’t put a slower drive in there just to be safe, and newer games will probably show issues.

But it’s kinda funny

 

[Futaleufu]

Yeah, he really was right (no sarcasm) :

This is what passed for an amazing, ground-breaking platformer on PC in 1990/1




While the SNES had this:




Unlike today, there really was a huge difference in how PC and consoles worked back then. PC was ahead in some types of games, but console destroyed it in others.

I'm not going to sidetrack this thread any longer, but if you think videogames in the late 80s/early 90s were nothing but platform games it's your loss. RPGs, adventure, strategy, simulators, puzzles, 3D were all better on IBM PC/Amiga.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Looking at the game, the amount of data it's pulling in is probably in the GB/s range but nowhere near 5.5GB/s. My guess would be 1-2GB/s, which means a decent PCIe 3.0 drive can probably run the game, pure speculation on my part.

My PCIe 3 drive can offer 3200MB/s of throughput... Same specs as the one they're testing.

 

[GametimeUK]

Could've been done on PS3 to be fair.

 

[DoctorEkkoUK]

B-b-but the SSD!? the super powerful SSD that Mark told me was game changing and integral to the way games would run on PS5. I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

[sircaw]

There was nothing logical or rational about the responses people had to the Austin video Fishy. I might disagree with your opinion in many cases but to think you'd deserve someone knocking over your fish bowl over your opinion? That's going too far.

Slimy is simply saying that he thinks Sony could have used their engineering budget in different ways. It is clear that Sony was really trying to keep the costs down and that makes sense seeing how they have every intention of selling millions of these consoles. You also saw it with the cooler redesign. I think they did very well with the design overall but it is quite interesting to see how slowly games are written to the internal drive. Is that why updates on the PS5 have the lengthy install period after a download is completed? I wonder how that is avoided on the Xbox.

Your opinion on the Austin Evans video was just awful though, you backed a click-bite, hyperbolic drama-causing idiot who used poor methodology to come to a result. It was pure guesswork on his behalf. Then you got people like yourself and slimy going around, treating it like the gospel truth, praising it, and acting like they have found the lost city of fucking eldorado. People were annoyed at Evans methodology or the lack of it, why can you not see that?

You then doubled down by saying people on this forum are doxing him, another bad judgment call on your behalf. You got a whole lot of people annoyed at that remark as you are basically comparing normal gaf users to what is essentially a couple of nutjobs on the internet. You then denied it, then a mod said you did say it but they deleted it. You then doubled down basically calling a couple of users liars. When the mod told you that you did say it, you then apologized with i am universal sorry to everyone in a thread but not directly apologizing to people that you had personally insulted..

Then, A few days later you then made another post in another thread that was in direct counter to your apology, showing said apology was in fact not sincere.

As for the doxing of Austin Evans i honestly could not give a rat's arse about it, i never did it nor do i condone anyone else doing it, saying that Evans needs to be more mindful of the content he is releasing to his 5 million subs. there are a lot of fucking crazies out there. Evans is playing games and he knows it, Don't cry wolf, or act all innocent went the internet bites back at you

Now, as for slimy with ridiculous comments like Cerny should have just made a tflp machine and forget about all this ssd talk.

All due respect to you Slimy, but what a fucking stupid comment to make especially since we are at the start of the generation. Just like the tools have not matured from Microsoft, its the same thing, by your methodology, things were never going to get better or improved on, Ms should of just given up too then. Its just plain stupid.

As for you Mr Darkmage, what am i meant to think, every time i read something from you, it seems to be illogical or very poorly thought out. It's like you are purposely going against the grain of what all other normal people are saying.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I guess people saw a different article then I did.

I saw where games TODAY work with slower SSDs.

I didnt see any downplaying or discounting what Sony said nor did I see them say these slower SSDs will always work with any future game.

But people read what they want to see

Same, but some people are definitely reacting like they just saw their PS5 get shot, stabbed, beat, robbed, and pissed on by Richard.

IMO I don't think these slower SSDs are going to suddenly become incapable with future games through the generation, either. Sequential read speeds aren't going to matter as much as random read will for games, but more than that all of these SSDs and both Sony & Microsoft's consoles are using NVMe protocol built on 1.4, regardless if they're PCIe Gen 3 or 4 drives (because PCIe Gen 3 and 4 are largely the same outside of bandwidth per transceiver, i.e same 128b/130b encoding scheme for data, etc.).

The only fundamental differences that using slower drives might impact is if either the PS5 and/or Series systems used protocol built off NVMe 2.0 at their core, which is impossible to know and probably not likely considering the specifications weren't even announced until earlier this summer, well after the designs for both consoles were finished and they were already made available.

Unless Microsoft or Sony have an inside track with NVMe Express Inc., there's no way they could've incorporated those specifications into their SSD flash controllers and architecture by late 2019 or early 2020. It's possible that they could've designed equivalents to some of those specifications, Sony in particular, but this would make no sense because then they could introduce incompatibilities with 3P M.2 NVMe drives and 3Ps would have to write Sony-specific drivers for their drives on top of the drives they already have to write for PCs and other consumer devices, and that effort would probably not be worth it. Also, Sony probably wouldn't want to risk having that code sitting in unused drivers for drives on PCs that a hacker to crack and use to hack PS5s to do all kinds of crazy stuff.

So that's a long way of saying I think most slower SSD drives will be just fine for PS5 games going throughout the generation, maybe outside of slightly slower load times in some cases. But, if those drives are cheaply built or have noticeably worst endurance cycle ratings, or notably worst latencies, those could be bigger bottlenecks that could compromise performance later down the road. Same would technically hold true for the Series systems if they even used M.2 NVMe drives instead of CF Express storage cards (I hope they release a CF Express-to-M.2 NVMe adapter for the system if the price on those expansion cards doesn't come down quickly enough).

 

[Kazza]

I'm not going to sidetrack this thread any longer, but if you think videogames in the late 80s/early 90s were nothing but platform games it's your loss.

RPGs, adventure, strategy, simulators, puzzles, 3D were all better on IBM PC/Amiga.

Unlike today, there really was a huge difference in how PC and consoles worked back then. PC was ahead in some types of games, but console destroyed it in others.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Same, but some people are definitely reacting like they just saw their PS5 get shot, stabbed, beat, robbed, and pissed on by Richard.

IMO I don't think these slower SSDs are going to suddenly become incapable with future games through the generation, either. Sequential read speeds aren't going to matter as much as random read will for games, but more than that all of these SSDs and both Sony & Microsoft's consoles are using NVMe protocol built on 1.4, regardless if they're PCIe Gen 3 or 4 drives (because PCIe Gen 3 and 4 are largely the same outside of bandwidth per transceiver, i.e same 128b/130b encoding scheme for data, etc.).

The only fundamental differences that using slower drives might impact is if either the PS5 and/or Series systems used protocol built off NVMe 2.0 at their core, which is impossible to know and probably not likely considering the specifications weren't even announced until earlier this summer, well after the designs for both consoles were finished and they were already made available.

Unless Microsoft or Sony have an inside track with NVMe Express Inc., there's no way they could've incorporated those specifications into their SSD flash controllers and architecture by late 2019 or early 2020. It's possible that they could've designed equivalents to some of those specifications, Sony in particular, but this would make no sense because then they could introduce incompatibilities with 3P M.2 NVMe drives and 3Ps would have to write Sony-specific drivers for their drives on top of the drives they already have to write for PCs and other consumer devices, and that effort would probably not be worth it. Also, Sony probably wouldn't want to risk having that code sitting in unused drivers for drives on PCs that a hacker to crack and use to hack PS5s to do all kinds of crazy stuff.

So that's a long way of saying I think most slower SSD drives will be just fine for PS5 games going throughout the generation, maybe outside of slightly slower load times in some cases. But, if those drives are cheaply built or have noticeably worst endurance cycle ratings, or notably worst latencies, those could be bigger bottlenecks that could compromise performance later down the road. Same would technically hold true for the Series systems if they even used M.2 NVMe drives instead of CF Express storage cards (I hope they release a CF Express-to-M.2 NVMe adapter for the system if the price on those expansion cards doesn't come down quickly enough).

Exactly.

Most people saw a DF video about PS5 SSD speeds and instantly thought it was slander.

I mean I see the term Xbots a lot but wow to take a video that Richard clearly states Devs are right now NOT getting full use out of a PS5 and in the future these slower drives may not work MAYBE thats just full on fanboy warrior stuff to get upset at saying its downplaying the PS5 speeds.

Go outside people geez.

 

[sircaw]

Exactly.

Most people saw a DF video about PS5 SSD speeds and instantly thought it was slander.

I mean I see the term Xbots a lot but wow to take a video that Richard clearly states Devs are right now NOT getting full use out of a PS5 and in the future these slower drives may not work MAYBE thats just full on fanboy warrior stuff to get upset at saying its downplaying the PS5 speeds.

Go outside people geez.

the issue is, we have people in here not listening to that advice, and it happens in every bloody thread. It's like they are not watching the videos or purposely ignoring said content.

It has become so tiresome but it keeps happening.

 

[DarkMage619]

Your opinion on the Austin Evans video was just awful though, you backed a click-bite, hyperbolic drama-causing idiot who used poor methodology to come to a result. It was pure guesswork on his behalf. Then you got people like yourself and slimy going around, treating it like the gospel truth, praising it, and acting like they have found the lost city of fucking eldorado. People were annoyed at Evans methodology or the lack of it, why can you not see that?

You then doubled down by saying people on this forum are doxing him, another bad judgment call on your behalf. You got a whole lot of people annoyed at that remark as you are basically comparing normal gaf users to what is essentially a couple of nutjobs on the internet. You then denied it, then a mod said you did say it but they deleted it. You then doubled down basically calling a couple of users liars. When the mod told you that you did say it, you then apologized with i am universal sorry to everyone in a thread but not directly apologizing to people that you had personally insulted..

Then, A few days later you then made another post in another thread that was in direct counter to your apology, showing said apology was in fact not sincere.

As for the doxing of Austin Evans i honestly could not give a rat's arse about it, i never did it nor do i condone anyone else doing it, saying that Evans needs to be more mindful of the content he is releasing to his 5 million subs. there are a lot of fucking crazies out there. Evans is playing games and he knows it, Don't cry wolf, or act all innocent went the internet bites back at you

Now, as for slimy with ridiculous comments like Cerny should have just made a tflp machine and forget about all this ssd talk.

All due respect to you Slimy, but what a fucking stupid comment to make especially since we are at the start of the generation. Just like the tools have not matured from Microsoft, its the same thing, by your methodology, things were never going to get better or improved on, Ms should of just given up then. Its just plain stupid.

As for you Mr Darkmage, what am i meant to think, every time i read something from you, it seems to be illogical or very poorly thought out. It's like you are purposely going against the grain of what all other normal people are saying.

You are clearly living in some sort of alternate reality so there is really no point in derailing this thread with nonsense. We'll just agree to disagree with what happened over said video. I think the reaction was way overblown and crazy and you can think whatever you want to think. In this instance I think Slimy had the best take.

Same, but some people are definitely reacting like they just saw their PS5 get shot, stabbed, beat, robbed, and pissed on by Richard.

IMO I don't think these slower SSDs are going to suddenly become incapable with future games through the generation, either. Sequential read speeds aren't going to matter as much as random read will for games, but more than that all of these SSDs and both Sony & Microsoft's consoles are using NVMe protocol built on 1.4, regardless if they're PCIe Gen 3 or 4 drives (because PCIe Gen 3 and 4 are largely the same outside of bandwidth per transceiver, i.e same 128b/130b encoding scheme for data, etc.).

The only fundamental differences that using slower drives might impact is if either the PS5 and/or Series systems used protocol built off NVMe 2.0 at their core, which is impossible to know and probably not likely considering the specifications weren't even announced until earlier this summer, well after the designs for both consoles were finished and they were already made available.

Unless Microsoft or Sony have an inside track with NVMe Express Inc., there's no way they could've incorporated those specifications into their SSD flash controllers and architecture by late 2019 or early 2020. It's possible that they could've designed equivalents to some of those specifications, Sony in particular, but this would make no sense because then they could introduce incompatibilities with 3P M.2 NVMe drives and 3Ps would have to write Sony-specific drivers for their drives on top of the drives they already have to write for PCs and other consumer devices, and that effort would probably not be worth it. Also, Sony probably wouldn't want to risk having that code sitting in unused drivers for drives on PCs that a hacker to crack and use to hack PS5s to do all kinds of crazy stuff.

So that's a long way of saying I think most slower SSD drives will be just fine for PS5 games going throughout the generation, maybe outside of slightly slower load times in some cases. But, if those drives are cheaply built or have noticeably worst endurance cycle ratings, or notably worst latencies, those could be bigger bottlenecks that could compromise performance later down the road. Same would technically hold true for the Series systems if they even used M.2 NVMe drives instead of CF Express storage cards (I hope they release a CF Express-to-M.2 NVMe adapter for the system if the price on those expansion cards doesn't come down quickly enough).

This happens pretty often. The reactions sometimes don't actually match what is being said or what is happening. There is a little bit of spin or marketing when the SSD capabilities were sold on the PS5. That doesn't mean it isn't good but it does show there was a little merit in how SSD tech was handled on other platforms. I am interested to see as the generation goes on if there will really be a significant game altering achievements made with the PS5 approach. If they are planning on releasing a PC version at some point in the future one has to wonder just how far they can take that tech knowing that PCs won't possess the same storage capabilities. Should be fascinating.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

the issue is, we have people in here not listening to that advice, and it happens in every bloody thread. It's like they not watching the videos or purposely ignoring the content.

It has become so tiresome but it keeps happening.

Like I said they saw who the video was from and the topic and went full fanboy defensive mode.

Again I think this video and showing that games work with slower and cheaper SSDs are fantastic

Who knows when or even if we will need those crazy fast speeds in an expansion when we have it in the internal drive.

People arguing over all of this is just.

 

[Lethal01]

oh boy..

You dont need the whole level in memory. just that area.

anyway .. how about 25+ years as software developer plus this guy who has had over 40 in the gaming industry working on big titles.





Now where is your proof it does that is not from Sony PR vids? .. I too can play that stupid game of prove it..

So tired of seeing this guy be posted as "proof" he is not working on the game and this is just speculation on his part about how they had to implement it.

 

[SlimySnake]

Exactly.

Most people saw a DF video about PS5 SSD speeds and instantly thought it was slander.

I mean I see the term Xbots a lot but wow to take a video that Richard clearly states Devs are right now NOT getting full use out of a PS5 and in the future these slower drives may not work MAYBE thats just full on fanboy warrior stuff to get upset at saying its downplaying the PS5 speeds.

Go outside people geez.

Some folks on this board simply cannot handle any criticism of their favorite company. This applies to Sony, MS and Nintendo fans. Hell, today some Abby fan got upset because i called her a boring character. Thats Abby from TLOU. Apprently my GOTY of last year is a game I have never even played because I must be a hater.

I have been a Sony fan for 20 years now on these boards. You can go back and search my history on gaf or go to gamespot forums and see me drooling over PS games going back to 2001. And yet, if I dare to say anything negative about the PS5, their E3 conferences or Sony's cross gen strategy I am labeled as an xbot. I used to get banned for months on old gaf for trashing Phil and shitting on Nintendo Switch graphics. Literally months. And now im an xbot. Amazing.

I grew to love Cerny's PS5 design after an initial disappointment on tflops. Loved the I/O block and everything he said about what a fast SSD and I/O can do for game design. Defended him against the tflops brigades for almost two years. But there comes a point where you have to deliver on the promise and Sony has simply not done that yet. Their I/O and SSD are the one thing that set them apart from their competition and if that one thing isnt being fully utilized then they deserve their share of criticism. If there was another game on the horizon that we could point at and say "well, this game will take full advantage of the 5.5. GBps bandwidth even if Ratchet didnt", but we havent even seen that game. We are a year into this gen and we dont know what they are selling. We dont know what we bought.

 

[01011001]

I would like to know how much data a second R&C really needs. I think it would be quite telling if there were a way to test SATA drives.

I still think almost anything that is used for the fast scenery changes is partially preloaded into memory

 

[Rikkori]

As I, and others with even the most basic understanding of IO & GPUs, said from the beginning: the PS5 SSD speed advantage was nothing but pure hype, because the difference between even shitty sata ssds & high-end nvme is actually very small when it comes to IO rather than sequential speed which is near irrelevant above a certain point. The fundamental thing holding it back is what holds back flash in general, and that won't change any time soon for storage esp. since Optane got killed.
If people would take 30s to figure out the speed difference between SSD - RAM - VRAM and the Pcie speed, they'd know this - remember! the data still has to be in vram in order to be rendered.

Predictably, now the cope strategy is "but brah you don't understand R&C just isn't meant to push the ssd hard enough! they don't know yet!", sprinkled with a dash of "but the IO complex is still what's making things happen" copium.

In reality? This is all still multiple steps below just having RAM & the focus on SSD exists solely as a cost-saving strategy of sorts because adding more RAM is more expensive and a SSD was needed anyway.

 

[tony19957]

TL;DW: Yes. There's barely a difference.

Would be interesting to know what the real bottom is. 2500 MB/s? 2000? 1500? Sadly nobody can really test it.

Unless someone can hack a PS5 and removes those restrictions. Hmm, don't know how long that would take

 

[01011001]

Unless someone can hack a PS5 and removes those restrictions. Hmm, don't know how long that would take

you could also run the SSD hot, that would throttle it as well

 

[ABnormal]

So much for the revolutionary SSD, and people in here were saying rift apart wasn't possible on PC because of the ssd

The point that has been extensively explained in the ps5 Cerny talk is that it's not primarily the ssd the key to extremely fast data streaming, but the I/O architecture on a whole, to overcame all the classic bottlenecks. If you just slap a fast sdd in a pc, that data management is still just impossible. It will take some years before it will be possible to brute force it.

 

[ABnormal]

That's not the point. The point is that Sony couldve gone with a cheaper and slower SSD to reduce costs or maybe apply those cost savings into a more powerful GPU or a bigger SSD.

Because right now, it's a waste of money. They have essentially spent extra money on something that will not be utilized by 99% of devs. And the 1% who are utilizing it, are not even close to maxing it out as this Ratchet test shows.

99% of the devs are going to fully max out the 10 tflops GPU. It's not that hard. You push resolution and pixels and some GPU heavy RT effects and you hit the GPU bottleneck. No one at the moment seems to be maxing out this SSD. I/O seems to be more than capable on its own. What Cerny has done is deliver a weaker console at the expense of this fancy SSD that no one seems to give a shit about at the moment. Literally one studio has taken advantage of it, and they are 2.2 GBps away from maxing it out. The rest of their own studios are busy doing cross gen games.

Maybe in 2 years when Spiderman comes out and does something fancy with the PS5 SSD speeds of 5.5 GBps we can say that it was a good choice to prioritize SSD speeds over SSD size and faster GPU. But if we have to wait 3 years to see what this fancy SSD can do then maybe they shouldve stuck in their mid gen console instead.

The hardware design purpose is that the data management could reach the possibility to literally stream the highest quality assets at the speed of turning the view. In that way, they created an hardware that doesn't pose any restriction on the development of games structure. That is the best possible thing, for the developers. We will see how many of them will take full advantage of it. And that keeping in mind that the purpose of a developer is not to "max out" the sdd capability, but to fully realize a vision. Which will probably not need to squeeze every Gb of data at any moment. And moreover, the first limit to highest quality assets usage, lies on the limit of the total space of the ssd. You can't have a game with z-brush like assets, unless you start to make terabytes large games. But, as said, the possibility is there. Space limits aside, developers will not encounter any data problems, in new games (at least, from the moment they will all be next-gen only).

 

[RoboFu]

So tired of seeing this guy be posted as "proof" he is not working on the game and this is just speculation on his part about how they had to implement it.

He is saying how you could do it which is more than likely how they do it. But again you can see how they mask it with longer than normal animations. The loading starts before the portals are even hit. It’s plain for anyone with a brain to see it’s not instant. It’s fast but not ever “ instant “.
every single gif in this thread of him going through a portal has a set animation before it happens.

 

[BigLee74]

No one is surprised.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yeah, right.

Not talking about 3D. Indy 500 was great on PC. I'm talking all the fast paced platformers, arcadey games and shooters tons of effects and parallax. Sports played much better too.

But anything text based, sim, turn based, 3D were better suited for PC at that time.

Megadrive came out in Japan in fall 1988 and ran laps around PC graphically and also had stereo sound as standard.

 

[01011001]

The point that has been extensively explained in the ps5 Cerny talk is that it's not primarily the ssd the key to extremely fast data streaming, but the I/O architecture on a whole, to overcame all the classic bottlenecks. If you just slap a fast sdd in a pc, that data management is still just impossible. It will take some years before it will be possible to brute force it.

pure bullshit, the IO cluster of the PS5 is made up of repurposed CPU cores, a PC can just use it's superior CPU to decompress

 

[ABnormal]

pure bullshit, the IO cluster of the PS5 is made up of repurposed CPU cores, a PC can just use it's superior CPU to decompress

And that's the classic fanboy ignorance. The decompressor is just one of the steps. But feel free to live in your reassuring fanboy fantasy world.