Bernd Lauert
Banned
The cache scrubbers made the 3.2 gb/s WD run at 10 gb/s. Cerny magic!
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[DF] Can the Slowest PS5 SSD Upgrade Run Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart?
- Thread starter 3liteDragon
- Start date
- Analysis Hardware
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Both the internal SSD and any external SSD connect to the same SSD Controller which goes through the same I/O Complex in the APU… so, your argument here makes little sense.
The most console warty argument one can take out of it (ignoring any performance dips in the game the article seems to mention, etc…) is that Insomniac has not tapped out the disk yet throughput wise (which they admitted early on). Free to stretch it into “Cerny over specced the SSD by 2+ times, what a fool”, it kind of helps framing the posts and posters that do so.
Edit: oh well, speaking of which…
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
But this is the game everybody was saying wasn’t possible on other hardware. Go back look at the threads on it, no game this gen will fully utilise that speed on the SSD, loading will always be quicker with a faster SSD but in game 5.5gb per second of data is a huge amount of data and unless we expecting game sizes to massivelay expand then it will more likely be next gen that we see that kinda speed utilised other than loading
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Great! So PS5's awesome SSD controller I/O is so good it can make slow PC SSDs work just as well as internal. No wonder a 3.2 gb/s SSD did just as well for R&C for loading and gameplay. Dont need an external 5.5gb/s SSD after all.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Which devs say Internal only or 7GB/s drive.
Considering Cerny has said 5.5GB/s is sufficient?
Hell Cerny has a SN850 himself which doesnt actually hit 7GB/s.
You think Sony is going to backtrack the whole 5.5GB/s thing?
Unreal Engine 5 says helloSSD is just on part of the puzzle. The another big part is the I/O Complex and the systematic elimination of with all bottlencks. (File I/O, mapping and co)
MS didnt remove this bottlenecks.
Last big part is lossless decompression Kraken + Oodle with way faster than ZLIB.
We haven't seen anything similar to anything or anywhere until today, instant charging times in a completely new (asset) world with consistent quality. And we will that not see on Series X/S. That's why developers have called the PS5 SSD/iO complex a gamechanger
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
People are going back to the Cerny presentation where he had the SSD slide and talked about PC SSDs in fall 2020 hitting 7 gb/s, so get ready for compatible SSDs. So it was hinted to get a working PC SSD, you might need to top up to a 7 gb/s model.
Now what Cerny could had said is PC SSDs at 5.5 gb/s like the PS5 SSD would be fine and coming out (or maybe already out at the time?), or that slower speed SSDs work fine too. But he overshot it at 7 gb/s for the power halo effect.
It's like a hardware maker saying their system uses USB 3. But if you want to add external storage, USB 4 devices are coming out end of year. But in reality, turns out USB 2 devices work just as good. But not until 10 months later did people find out USB 2 actually works after all.
He's the chief engineer. He knows what works or not. But not once did he say slower ones work fine.
Topher
Gold Member
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
Because you don't want to give developers the opportunity to also have to take into account people who are going to buy lower spec ssds. There must be room in the future to improve, so you need a ssd that has a faster read speed, but still has to go past the I/O complex to take advantage of all the features.
Why do people expect that games had already reached their peak in terms of I/O bandwidth? Even Insomniac has long indicated that they are just at the beginning of what they can do and have plenty of headroom for future games. From this, you could already tell just fine that they were far from making full use of the PS5 hardware and that's what I think is impressive, because Rift Apart is an impressive game.
What do you mean by other hardware? HDD...yes that's what everyone knows already.
Topher
Aah yeah, i'm just waiting for that moment, when MS is going to hype the shit out with their DirectStorage API, Velocity Arch and all their fancy names for this. They will shill the fuck out of it as if MS invented it and since it's coming to pc...that's the time it's good but PS5's I/O complex is "overengineered, no one will use it, no game will ever use it".
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MadchesterManc
Member
Imagine beating your chest and punching the air thinking that Ratchet & Clank has tapped out the PS5 and Cerny was telling porkies at what the I/O could do. Hasn't even been a year yet. Glorious GAF at it's finest
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
People act as if by december 31 this year. It will be the end of the current gen hardware and we can start pre-ordering the PS6.
Why people care so much about the PS5 hardware and what it shows. The PS5 is so far the only console that has shown us next-gen games in its first year.
Xbox has yet to show anything that was really impressive. Halo isn't going to do that and the new Forza doesn't do much more than whatever the previous Forza did only with higher details.
Pedro Motta
Member
What is this? Dumb people season? WTF is going on?
EDIT: Digital Foundry at it's best, complaining about console warring fans all the time, gives weapons to warriors on both sides and then shrugs.
EDIT: Digital Foundry at it's best, complaining about console warring fans all the time, gives weapons to warriors on both sides and then shrugs.
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I think people are bored and frustrated and fanning the flames of console wars is an easy way to vent some of that energy.
Gameplaylover
Member
Actually FS was damn impressive and by far the best looking console game this year.
GHG
Gold Member
It's the only piece of FUD they have left to cling on to considering 9.23764 TF was bullshit along with RDNA 1.1987, the coil whine campaign was unsuccessful, Austin Evans got debunked, "CBOMB" is no longer a thing and both Deathloop and Kena have arrived with critical acclaim.
As with all those things, it won't be long until they are forced to move on from this. All it takes is the release of one game to put one of these slower PCIe 4 drives SSD's on it's knees and they are back to square one again.
I don't know why people waste their time engaging with this nonsense anymore when history has taught everybody that all you need to do is sit back and wait.
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Riky
$MSFT
Exactly the online streaming tech was the only next gen software we've seen this gen.
The SSD speed does matter though. I have a Samsung 970 Evo and a 980 Pro in my PC and I can tell you I can notice the difference between the two
I'm surprised there isn't a bigger difference in DF's tests between the tested SSDs but that does not automatically mean that the one Sony used is useless considering how early we are in the generation and how game development has been messed with by Covid. I for one I'm happy that both new consoles have SSDs in them and I'm excited to see how devs start taking advantage of them in the coming years.
Concern
Member
This thread in a nutshell.
Member when we had 5 ssd threads a day? I member lol. Time for the i/o to take the wheel now.
Member when Ratchet wasn't possible on pc or any other console?
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
The console itself isn't doing much impressive things then showing some vfx, planes. Without the internet connection, FS doesn't look so hot anymore. FS was completely hyped up around the clouds, but ultimately that's not what you play FS for.
I played FS2020 on pc, it's playable on Series S and it doesn't shown anything that is not possible on something else. FS doesn't even require a fast SSD or something to play.
Something that is not handled by the console, pc or whatever, but your internet connection. So it could easily been done on the PS5 is MS wants to bring it to the PS5.
Topher
Gold Member
What is with this false narrative that somehow the IO part of the equation is something new? Both Sony and Microsoft have harped on the IO aspect of their SSD implementation since they started talking about their SSD tech. And you guys are just now realizing what was being discussed for over a year now?
Riky
$MSFT
Well that's hardly a revelation since the PS5 is a next gen console.
Point is the last gen versions had to be canned, next gen only for a reason.
There is nothing in Ratchet & Clank that couldn't be done somewhere else either, we see a test that shows going all the way down to 3200mbs has no impact whatsoever on performance so it's fair to say going to 2400mbs would have very little or none at all either.
MadchesterManc
Member
What is with this false narrative that somehow the IO part of the equation is something new? Both Sony and Microsoft have harped on the IO aspect of their SSD implementation since they started talking about their SSD tech. And you guys are just now realizing what was being discussed for over a year now?
That is somewhat Sony's fault for not giving it a marketable name like Velocity Architecture, instead just going with the boring ol' I/O
Gameplaylover
Member
This thread in a nutshell.
Member when we had 5 ssd threads a day? I member lol. Time for the i/o to take the wheel now.
Member when Ratchet wasn't possible on pc or any other console?
MadchesterManc
Member
You know the flies really have gathered around the shit when MonarchJT starts posting fanboy drivel
pls stop embarassing yourself ....PC could run rachet without any problem
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
This thread has nothing to do with Xbox.....why bring it up?
eeeh I think the problem instead is that the new reality does not appeal to those who did not think like me, that is, they simply liked to dream
before you hit the max you will be so fuckin GPU bound as always
VFXVeteran
and me tried to told you guysand in any case I understand that one can always invent novelties but what kind of use people expect is GREATER to change the whole scene in a second? exactly there isn't ...or rather there would be ... change the whole scene with let's say 1.5x more polygons ... but as I said the PS5 gpu would not hold up. Let's face it all the PS5 ssd is great but it is obvious that naming it so much has served to make up for other hw deficits
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martino
Member
MadchesterManc
Member
What new reality exactly? The unsurprising notion that a 1st gen PS5 game doesn't max out the PS5? How unsurprising
Darius87
Member
you realize that PS5 I/O nearly doubles the speed of internal/external SSD? so your slower 3.2GB/s is actually 6.4GB/s expecting that R&C wouldn't run perfectly at this speed is ludicrous.
if you expect all coming years just to play R&C or games prior then you'll be fine, though games evolve throughout the generation.
did you watched road to PS5? Cerny perfectly explained why such speeds is required for next-gen.
i don't know who claimed "it wasn't possible to run on PC and others consoles" it as far as i member argument was "it wasn't possible exactly as it was on PS5" which is true because PC SSD's is limited without decompressors and other ASIC HW and on top on that it underperforms of it's manufacturers estimated speeds because of OS data restrictions, so your PC version of R&C wouldn't be the same as PS5's going thru portal would not be up to 2s and experience would be different.This thread in a nutshell.
Member when we had 5 ssd threads a day? I member lol. Time for the i/o to take the wheel now.
Member when Ratchet wasn't possible on pc or any other console?
no no don't play with words))) the new reality is that you don't need any special ssd to run that portal effect...and technically certainly PC and probably Xbox would have zero problem to run it too. which is the opposite of what many fanboys were hoping and screaming for months and months
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stop it PC use CPU to decompress CPU that are LOTS more powerful than those in the consoles and have certainly spare power to do it
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Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
Sorry that someone mentioned your precious console
It's never about another console only when it suits you guys.before you hit the max you will be so fuckin GPU bound as always
and in any case I understand that one can always invent novelties but what kind of use people expect is GREATER to change the whole scene in a second? exactly there isn't ...or rather there would be ... change the whole scene with let's say 1.5x more polygons ... but as I said the PS5 gpu would not hold up. Let's face it all the PS5 ssd is great but it is obvious that naming it so much has served to make up for other hw deficits
Aah shit, this guy with his shit again. Frustrated again?
I was thinking exactly the same thing. This guy is literally a shit fly.
As if the PS5 has a special SSD? The chips are just nothing special, it's all about the I/O complex, not the SSD itself. And since you still don't know it. The added SSD need to access the I/O complex to take advantage of all the features. It is totally irrelevant in this case that a slower ssd can run it because it gets help from the I/O complex and THAT is what matters. You and many others still don't understand and just want to push your own gut feelings as facts.
Fortunately you are not an engineer otherwise you would be someone who had not thought ahead to the future. You would have put in a 1GB/s SSD and said (this is fine for the next 6 years). Something about being future proof and having headroom for future games? You stare purely blind on launch titles namely but that is totally irrelevant to the future.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
MadchesterManc
Member
What play on words exactly? The reality is what I posted.
Why even listen to fanboys? There was Xbox fanboys claiming the Series X would be a generation ahead with those extra two tuddies, or marketing actually saying its 25tf when raytracing, but you don't see folk clinging to those in the way posters like yourself cling to PS5 fanboy pre launch hype. The gen has barely started for either console, stop getting ahead of yourself
Md Ray
Member
What an idiotic conclusion to come to.
What? You probably haven't heard of RTX IO which brings GPU-based decompression because CPUs alone can't handle everything even on PC.
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Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
What play on words exactly? The reality is what I posted.
Why even listen to fanboys? There was Xbox fanboys claiming the Series X would be a generation ahead with those extra two tuddies, or marketing actually saying its 25tf when raytracing, but you don't see folk clinging to those in the way posters like yourself cling to PS5 fanboy pre launch hype. The gen has barely started for either console, stop getting ahead of yourself
I bet he will ignore that was ever said, what all xbox fanboys do after almost a year.
You don't want to use your CPU for those task if you can offload it to some other silicon. Lol about what CPU are you talking about? Your CPU in your pc is doing way more in the background when you are gaming then these same CPU's in the consoles.
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FranXico
Member
Mr Moose
Member
Ehhh, you think year one games are maxing out either of these consoles, you simply are dreaming.
Riky
$MSFT
Methos#1975
Member
Anyone instAll TEAMGROUP T-Force CARDEA A440 into their PS5, seems to be the only SSD I can actually find in stock
you and many other just drink the kool aid too much ..topic closed this test done by DF it only shows that the ssd (contrary to what was said before) can also be decidedly slower. When someone proves that with the i/o, or of the PS5 there will be that they can not be done in anything else so I'll come back to apologize .... in the meantime maybe it would be time for some of you to learn to do the same.Sorry that someone mentioned your precious console
Aah shit, this guy with his shit again. Frustrated again?
I was thinking exactly the same thing. This guy is literally a shit fly.
As if the PS5 has a special SSD? The chips are just nothing special, it's all about the I/O complex, not the SSD itself. And since you still don't know it. The added SSD need to access the I/O complex to take advantage of all the features. It is totally irrelevant in this case that a slower ssd can run it because it gets help from the I/O complex and THAT is what matters. You and many others still don't understand and just want to push your own gut feelings as facts.
Fortunately you are not an engineer otherwise you would be someone who had not thought ahead to the future. You would have put in a 1GB/s SSD and said (this is fine for the next 6 years). Something about being future proof and having headroom for future games? You stare purely blind on launch titles namely but that is totally irrelevant to the future.
Shmunter
Member
Crackdown 3 certainly streamed the destruction geometry….
Also mods just deleted my post because it’s offensive!
Was it the word play on Drivertars with an extra D? Or hurting console fee fees somehow? No explanation, no idea.
Mister Wolf
Member
Direct Storage cant come soon enough. I dont know what's taking developers so long to start using it or at least state that they will be using it. PC is seriously behind these consoles in I/O. I used to argue but once it was explained to me now I understand. It was never about the speed of the SSD because the I/O was the bottleneck all along. As VFX used to say we won't even come close to using the full capacity of any of these NVME for data streaming this console generation, even the slowest of them because the GPU will become the bottleneck long before that happens.
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Armorian
Banned
People in this thread are quite stupid... It's not abnormal that game released in first year of console lifecycle can't max out thing that was just introduced with this generation. Even this slow SSD is much faster than the thing that is in Xbox consoles...
PC without Direct storage is far behind too.
PC without Direct storage is far behind too.