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[Bernd Lauert]

The memory is split into low speed memory and even lower speed memory. He is not talking about CPU and GPU memory. It isn't all reserved for OS.

The memory isn't split. 8 GB are for games, 2 GB are for the OS. There isn't a split like with XSX.

 

[FireFly]

This implies teraflops were ever a good way to measure performance. A teraflop on GCN is different from one on Navi.

That doesn't actually matter when the comparison is within the same generation.

 

[Three]

As someone described in this thread, it's backdoor console warring. They can't shit on the XSX for obvious reasons so they let it all out on the XSS

I would say those who without fail always defend it are more known for their console warring.

It's bizarre too because some of them then don't have the exact same reaction to cross gen. The other place where released games look the same just blurry, lower quality textures, etc.
Elden Ring on PS4 looks very similar to PS5/XSX. Does that mean last gen is not an issue for developers or games too?

 

[ParaSeoul]

The memory isn't split. 8 GB are for games, 2 GB are for the OS. There isn't a split like with XSX.

Its split. The Xbox Series X has 16 GB GDDR6 (320-bit bus), 10 GB of which run at 560 GB/s, while the remaining 6 GB run at 336 GB/s. The Xbox Series S hardware, has 10 GB GDDR6 (128-bit bus), 8 GB of which run at 224 GB/s, while the remaining 2 GB run at 56 GB/s.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I would say those who without fail always defend it are more known for their console warring.

It's bizarre too because some of them then don't have the exact same reaction to cross gen. The other place where released games look the same just blurry, lower quality textures, etc.
Elden Ring on PS4 looks very similar to PS5/XSX. Does that mean last gen is not an issue for developers or games too?

Elden Ring is a last gen game, idk what your point is.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Its split. The Xbox Series X has 16 GB GDDR6 (320-bit bus), 10 GB of which run at 560 GB/s, while the remaining 6 GB run at 336 GB/s. The Xbox Series S hardware, has 10 GB GDDR6 (128-bit bus), 8 GB of which run at 224 GB/s, while the remaining 2 GB run at 56 GB/s.

It's not split. The 2 GB you mentioned are not used for games.

 

[ParaSeoul]

It's not split. The 2 GB you mentioned are not used for games.

Its still split. And its even worse because the Series S has even less to work with.

 

[Three]

The memory isn't split. 8 GB are for games, 2 GB are for the OS. There isn't a split like with XSX.

The Series S memory is 8GB at 224GB/s ( half the speed of the Series X) and 2GB at a very low speed of 56GB/s.
The split is in the speed. I don't think the entire 2GB is reserved for OS.

 

[ParaSeoul]

That doesn't actually matter when the comparison is within the same generation.

The point they were trying to make is that there was a bigger gap last gen. Which even if that were true,the One and One X didn't release at the same time and performance on the base machine was pretty poor towards the end of the gen in comparison to the One X.

 

[kingfey]

Just a thought game:

If a PC dev reaches a point, where supporting low-end hardware might impact their vision for their game OR require so much time/resources for optimizations to make it work, that the ROI might not be worth it, are they or are they not able to rise their minimum requirements and simply not support that low-end hardware?

Is the same possible on Xbox?

Consoles have the benefits of easier optimization.
The Xbox one vcr is still being supported by now, despite the console being weak as shit.
Also ROI on consoles isn't the same as the pc one. Consoles still have alot of userbase.
For example, the xbo one version has around 10m system sold. To the devs, that is still profit to make.

 

[Gone]

Those devs should just git gud.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Its still split.

Nope.

The Series S memory is 8GB at 224GB/s ( half the speed of the Series X) and 2GB at a very low speed of 56GB/s.
The split is in the speed. I don't think the entire 2GB is reserved for OS.

OS is 2.5 GB on XSX, and likely slightly smaller on XSS. The 2 GB are not used for games.

 

[Putonahappyface]

If true, it gets me sad. I sold my Series X in order to get a Series S and save a few bucks. Now i would need to buy a Series X back again : /

 

[arvfab]

Consoles have the benefits of easier optimization.
The Xbox one vcr is still being supported by now, despite the console being weak as shit.
Also ROI on consoles isn't the same as the pc one. Consoles still have alot of userbase.
For example, the xbo one version has around 10m system sold. To the devs, that is still profit to make.

You are not answering my question....

 

[Three]

Elden Ring is a last gen game, idk what your point is.

Exactly, and the next gen games are XSS games too now.

so how would we know if a game "wouldn't run on it" or is limited by it? Developers.

I've seen people saying I've not seen a game it can't run or it's only just blurry. obviously, that's what crossgen games are too.

What I'm saying is the people who genuinely don't like crossgen or the Series S are those who want developers to make games for high spec machines. The handful of people who without fail defend the Series S low specs then shit on cross gen games are usually the die hard corporate defenders who don't actually have values in either. Not all of them but the usual ones I'm seeing.

 

[In Cold Blood]

While more RAM always makes a developers life easy, on specs alone it's not at all too low.
For instance, it's a 4tflop console, same as the PS4 Pro. The PS4 Pro had 8gigs of RAM while the Series S has 10gigs.
The PS4 Pro had a RAM bandwidth of 217gbs while the Series S has 224gbs.
The 2 gigs of slower RAM is for the operating system.
The Radeon RX 5500 XT has 4.8tflops of Compute and 4gig of Vram at 224gbs. The Series S would have at least 6 gig of 224gbs for the GPU leaving 2 gig for CPU and Audio which is more than enough.

So all in all its a better RAM solution than the PS4 Pro and similar power AMD desktops GPUs.

On top of that once Sampler Feedback Streaming is utilised it will help the RAM management big time.

 

[Azurro]

Right, it's not like we get unfinished games at all.
Let's go a head and blame Xss. I mean, That console couldn't run flight simulator at all, since it was weak right?

This is a dumb take, but you are an Arsenal fan, so one can't ask much from you.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

What I'm saying is the people who genuinely don't like crossgen or the Series S are those who want developers to make games for high spec machines. The handful of people who without fail defend the Series S low specs then shit on cross gen games are usually the die hard corporate defenders who don't actually have values in either. Not all of them but the usual ones I'm seeing.

The core difference between cross gen and next gen is the CPU and the SSD capabilities. People hate cross gen because the games are tied to a tablet CPU from ten years ago and a shitty HDD from a thousand years ago. People who throw last gen and XSS in the same basket either don't understand what they're talking about or they are trolling.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

While more RAM always makes a developers life easy, on specs alone it's not at all too low.
For instance, it's a 4tflop console, same as the PS4 Pro. The PS4 Pro had 8gigs of RAM while the Series S has 10gigs.
The PS4 Pro had a RAM bandwidth of 217gbs while the Series S has 224gbs.
The 2 gigs of slower RAM is for the operating system.
The Radeon RX 5500 XT has 4.8tflops of Compute and 4gig of Vram at 224gbs. The Series S would have at least 6 gig of 224gbs for the GPU leaving 2 gig for CPU and Audio which is more than enough.

So all in all its a better RAM solution than the PS4 Pro and similar power AMD desktops GPUs.

On top of that once Sampler Feedback Streaming is utilised it will help the RAM management big time.

Exactly, XSS bandwidth is good enough for a 1080p target, especially if you include SFS into the picture. Without SFS, only the amount of RAM becomes a bit of a pain in the ass, at least if you want to include raytracing which is quite memory heavy. There's no reason to believe that XSS is going to hold next gen games back. The devs are only complaining about having to do more work.

 

[Edgelord79]

 

[kingfey]

This is a dumb take, but you are an Arsenal fan, so one can't ask much from you.

Well thank you.
While in the process, ignore flight simulator, which 99% of these devs can't achieve a game like that.

 

[kingfey]

You are not answering my question....

I answered you your question.
Xbox one vcr was still supported until now. Same for the ps4 with hfw and gt7.
It will be a long time for xss to start behaving like low end pc.

 

[Riky]

This implies teraflops were ever a good way to measure performance. A teraflop on GCN is different from one on Navi.

Nothing to do with consoles using the same architecture.

Its split. The Xbox Series X has 16 GB GDDR6 (320-bit bus), 10 GB of which run at 560 GB/s, while the remaining 6 GB run at 336 GB/s. The Xbox Series S hardware, has 10 GB GDDR6 (128-bit bus), 8 GB of which run at 224 GB/s, while the remaining 2 GB run at 56 GB/s.

The 2gb isn't available for games it's reserved for the OS so the split is irrelevant, Devs have 8gb all at the same bandwith.

The point they were trying to make is that there was a bigger gap last gen. Which even if that were true,the One and One X didn't release at the same time and performance on the base machine was pretty poor towards the end of the gen in comparison to the One X.

Not relevant when released, Devs were working with a far larger gap last gen, on both GPU as I detailed and CPU plus the mamory architecture was different on One S, yet games still ran on all consoles. The CPU is practically identical this gen so even less of a problem and that's the hardest area to scale.

 

[FireFly]

The point they were trying to make is that there was a bigger gap last gen. Which even if that were true,the One and One X didn't release at the same time and performance on the base machine was pretty poor towards the end of the gen in comparison to the One X.

It may happen again with the Series S. But I think the discussion is about to what extent the Series S will hold the other versions back, not how bad the experience will be at the end of the generation for S owners. In that context the "ideal case" would be developers leaving the Series S behind like they did with the One S.

 

[Shmunter]

You don't know the difference between marketing and a presentation for developers, says it all.

Is this the same presentation that allow you to conclude Series S will push the PS5 soon enough?

 

[Ozriel]

You can't get blood from a stone.
4TF's is 4TF's is 4TF's

Teraflops aren’t usually used when discussing memory.

Sure you’re equipped enough for this conversation?

 

[DinoD]

I think the gamble paid off for MS. Mostly helped by the COVID19 and chip shortage. It help them achieve more install base. Which in turn gives them much better leverage with the 3rd parties. Sure. S may not be programmers wet dream but they surely provided the dev env/tools to make it doable. I may be wrong here, but I do not recall a single game that's been deemed unplayable on series S. So far, they seem to get by, by dropping the resolution and maintain the 30fps rate. New version of FSR and other tool-chain improvements should ensure it stays that way.

Edited: spelling and grammar.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Teraflops aren’t usually used when discussing memory.

Sure you’re equipped enough for this conversation?

It's funny because in the 15 second video clip Alex literally says it's not about teraflops. Peak driveby trolling.

 

[Dodkrake]

Whenever Riky shows up in a topic all authoritarian and defending the indefensible, I like to drop the gift that keeps on giving. Enjoy, and ignore him.

 

[Hendrick's]

How many times are we going to rehash this same thread? Microsoft is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[I Master l]

They can go as low as 720p/30fps with lower geometry and texture quality .. if even that is not
enough than most likely the game will also run like shit on the big machines

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Whenever Riky shows up in a topic all authoritarian and defending the indefensible, I like to drop the gift that keeps on giving. Enjoy, and ignore him.

When you have no arguments so you retort to posting the same old screenshot and fishing for thumbs ups from your fellow team members. Peak school yard behavior

 

[Bojji]

I thought the Series S was supposed to be scaled down, for those who were cost conscience, but still allowed an enjoyable experience? I would imagine having slower and smaller allocated memory would require additional work to make games work. So is it this type of work that's making it a pain or something completely different?

They scaled GPU and it's ok but they went overboard with memory downgrade. With cross gen games it's not an issue (they still have to work on PS4/X1) but for next gen only devs barely have more memory than last gen with XSS and it's the lowest common denominator for this generation. It's not surprising at all that they are not happy.

 

[Shmunter]

The Series S memory is 8GB at 224GB/s ( half the speed of the Series X) and 2GB at a very low speed of 56GB/s.
The split is in the speed. I don't think the entire 2GB is reserved for OS.

Even then, It doesn’t matter really what sits where except for the need to manage memory layout since the dual speed is on the same bus. If you’re reading at 56, you’re not also reading at 224, potentially tanking everything if not careful.

The entire thing introduces dev complexity where there should be none in a unified ram platform. That’s what the devs are taking issue with.

 

[nominedomine]

This was a given, MS went way too far with cuting the cost of the Series S, it is seriously compromised in many ways, trully unfortunate that we'll have to deal with it for the next 8 years or so.

MS migth get some extra sales now because of it but in the long run it will probably hurt the brand to have such a poor product associated with it.

Even the Xbox One was a much better product when introduced. Trying to save $200 or $100 by settling for a Series S is the worst deal in gaming in a long while.

 

[Riky]

Is this the same presentation that allow you to conclude Series S will push the PS5 soon enough?

That was a "speculation" thread, look up what that means but it's cute you're still clinging to that in a totally different thread once more, must have bugged you. Looking at Lego Star Wars Saga though.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Even then, It doesn’t matter really what sits where except for the need to manage memory layout since the dual speed is on the same bus. If your reading at 56, you’re not also reading at 224, potentially tanking everything if not careful.

Why would you want to read both during gameplay?

 

[ParaSeoul]

When you have no arguments so you retort to posting the same old screenshot and fishing for thumbs ups from your fellow team members. Peak school yard behavior

I mean its proof that someone has such an extreme bias they would even suggest something like that. But then again we're possibly the real idiots for attempting to reason with you people.

 

[arvfab]

I answered you your question.
Xbox one vcr was still supported until now. Same for the ps4 with hfw and gt7.
It will be a long time for xss to start behaving like low end pc.

Still not answering my question, instead you bring cross-gen in the discussion, which we know will be ditched soon.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I mean its proof that someone has such an extreme bias they would even suggest something like that. But then again we're possibly the real idiots for attempting to reason with you people.

All of us have biases. If you want to "reason", try bringing some arguments to the discussion, not cheap ad hominem shots.

 

[Shmunter]

Why would you want to read both during gameplay?

The o/s and the functions it provides to the games does not suspend does it?

This is identical to the X btw, you gotta manage that shit

 

[mxbison]

Wow, I wonder what they say about PC then seeing as how it's actually the lowest common denominator.

Well if a PC is too slow to run it, that's not their problem.

Minimum specs will always impact development.

 

[Shmunter]

That was a "speculation" thread, look up what that means but it's cute you're still clinging to that in a totally different thread once more, must have bugged you. Looking at Lego Star Wars Saga though.

But your always speculating. Is this a speculation thread also?

 

[M1chl]

Wish XSS never came out, not necessarily because it's shit console (you can scale down the X version pretty easily), but the fucking discourse around is completely braindead. It made gaming forums worse. Thankfully at least VRR is out of the scope now.

 

[Ozriel]

They also said every Xbox was gonna ship with a Kinect hopefully they drop the S as fast they did the Kinect

You’ll be seeing the Series S all gen

I would say those who without fail always defend it are more known for their console warring.

By definition, if you aren’t pitting one console against the other in bad faith, or working overtime to run down one console, how can it be ‘console warring’?

 

[ParaSeoul]

All of us have biases. If you want to "reason", try bringing some arguments to the discussion, not cheap ad hominem shots.

Thats what most posts here have been but they keep getting shot down and declared non-issues.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Thats what most posts here have been but they keep getting shot down and declared non-issues.

It's fine when arguments go back and forth. Then two people come and start doing cheap shots (and derail the thread like this).

 

[Dodkrake]

When you have no arguments so you retort to posting the same old screenshot and fishing for thumbs ups from your fellow team members. Peak school yard behavior

What arguments? Arguments have been presented in the thread, Riky ignores them to suit whatever narrative. My screenshot proves he is as knowledgeable on this subject as I am in carrot growing and fertilization. I don't give two damns about thumbs up from "my fellow team members", stop projecting your need for internet points to feel like you're relevant.

 

[nominedomine]

The Series S existing will lengthen the Switch's lifespan.

It will also set the "Switch 2" to be able to get ports of everything. The only benefit of the Series S I can think of.

I doubt the next Nintendo portable will be that much weaker then a Series S. There will be a smaller gap from it to the Series S than from the Series S to the Series X.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

What arguments? Arguments have been presented in the thread, Riky ignores them to suit whatever narrative. My screenshot proves he is as knowledgeable on this subject as I am in carrot growing and fertilization. I don't give two damns about thumbs up from "my fellow team members", stop projecting your need for internet points to feel like you're relevant.

Correct me I'm wrong, but the core argument has been that the id software dude wrote two years ago that the memory isn't enough, likely before even trying to work with the XSS. It's not exactly a strong argument considering the dude's output with the XSS version of Doom Eternal and his interviews afterwards.