Riky
$MSFT
All looks like facts to me, some others seem to speculating a lot, also they're using factually wrong information like the memory split.
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Digital Foundry: Heard that Xbox Series S Is A "Pain" For Developers Due To Memory Issues
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
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- Opinion Hardware
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All looks like facts to me, some others seem to speculating a lot, also they're using factually wrong information like the memory split.
Dodkrake
Banned
Dude before Bethesda acquisition announced - Xbox Series S is problematic
Dude after Bethesda acquisition announced / completed - Xbox Series S is ok.
Are we now pretending the comments once MS started paying his salary are unbiased? Are we now ignoring that other developers have spoken on this?
I'll leave this here for you to check the dates yourself: https://news.microsoft.com/2020/09/...ia-and-its-game-publisher-bethesda-softworks/
Hezekiah
Banned
10GB of RAM is an issue in 2022? Colour me shocked.
Didn't like the idea of the Series S the moment it was mooted. It's not a 'proper next-gen' machine, and it would have been better for the industry if people on a budget could just buy a discounted One X and stick to previous gen games.
Already we're seeing games running at 1080p and sub-1080p at times. The 1440p marketing stuff was always bullshit, soon we'll be seeing 720p games on there.
Didn't like the idea of the Series S the moment it was mooted. It's not a 'proper next-gen' machine, and it would have been better for the industry if people on a budget could just buy a discounted One X and stick to previous gen games.
Already we're seeing games running at 1080p and sub-1080p at times. The 1440p marketing stuff was always bullshit, soon we'll be seeing 720p games on there.
Shmunter
Member
Actually it is factually incorrect to deny the fact to the existence of 2 different memory pools at different speeds in the Series Xboxes. “Split” is semantics.
Ironically if it were split in the truest sense like PC architecture it would be better off with no contention on a single bus like there is here.
Hezekiah
Banned
Have you heard of 'minimum requirements'?
Bernd Lauert
Banned
More like
Dude before working with XSS (and wishing for 64 GB of RAM in next gen consoles) - XSS is problematic
Dude after working with XSS - XSS seems ok
That's at least the way I see it. Of course he's not unbiased, but he wasn't unbiased before either.
Riky
$MSFT
In game development terms there is no spilt on the Series S.
GHG
Member
Well maybe they need you to present it to them so that they can stop having the issues they say they're having.
Riky - Head of developer relations at Microsoft Game Studios
Experience: Neogaf
Dodkrake
Banned
Dude after being paid by Microsoft - XSS seems ok.
This is what you don't get. Using someone that has an obvious conflict of interest and stating "he changed is opinion" is just rich.
Riky
$MSFT
Exactly and publishers will want developers to target those specs as that is where the sales are, 1060 and a four core CPU are prominent, Series S will be ok for a long long time.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
He changed his opinion after actually trying to develop for XSS. Before he only saw the numbers on paper, thought that the memory was split and was likely pissed off about it. It's interesting that people put so much validity on the one opinion where he has zero experience with the system, and put no validity on the opinion after actually delivering a product on the system.
Kokoloko85
Member
Xbox One also outsold 360 during the same time period ( 16months ) and it had a more expensive unit then other Xbox’s.
Despite what people think Xbox One and Series S/X have sold roughly the same during the same time peroid, 16 months, 13-14million.
Aaron’s tweet was not news, just cherry picking stats. It would of looked silly if he mentioned, Xbox One also sold this amount but failed to sell close to the 360 total number….
GHG
Member
And the rest of the developers? You think they aren't aware of your acronyms?
Seriously they should hire you as a consultant, I think you could turn it all around for them.
Dodkrake
Banned
Facts. The way the Series S (and X) memories are set up requires the slower bandwidth to occasionally be used by games (I'd say this occurs mostly on the Series X). If there was true split memory with different buses, then we'd be talking memory optimization. In the existing status quo, we're talking 1 bandwidth starved console that has a ridiculously slow memory and 1 console with decent bandwidth on the first 10GB. Once you go over that, then you are effectively slowing everything down, not just what needs access to that memory pool.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Dodkrake
Banned
Bullshit and you know it. He changed his opinion after the acquisition was announced (~10 days after his criticising tweet).
ParaSeoul
Member
I like how the benchmark is now two last gen games.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I also like how people claim XSS will hold next-gen back with zero evidence.
ParaSeoul
Member
I know they have but I never did. I do believe games will run on the Series S,I don't think they will run very well even with the usual downgrades.
Dodkrake
Banned
And we're here splitting hairs and talking in circles around the obvious with people that throw acronyms like if they were candy while not having the slightest grasp of the technology. Hell, most people here that throw said acronyms don't understand how parallelisation of tasks works between different hardware components and then thought they were qualified enough to say things like "smart shift is underclock" (when referring to the PS5 in this case).
Dev statements = Zero evidence
Masters Degree in Xbox Ambassadorship = Evidence
Dev statements = Zero evidence
Masters Degree in Xbox Ambassadorship = Evidence
kingfey
Banned
I answered your question already. You chose to deflect it.
Just like how hfw, a 2022 game is able to run on 2013 base, devs would be able to run games on Xss in the future.
Xbox one vsr is still getting games, despite how bad that console is.
That your answer to your question.
kingfey
Banned
Flight simulator is already running on xss.
I dont think games would run bad on xss.
Only those who care about those high graphics and rts would say that.
Dodkrake
Banned
If you played the game, there is one certain gameplay mechanic that was 100% impacted by cross gen development to catter to slow hard drives. I'll let you guess.
Only if you think being needlessly over defensive cannot be console warring but my comment wasn't about an isolated incident. I said "they are known for their console warring".
There is one example of the people I'm talking about who as I'm sure you're aware is known for "pitting one console against the other in bad faith". just don't mention his/her screenshoted comments though.
I don't understand why people bring up the DE patch as if it somehow contradicted the "id software dudes" comment. The id software dev said there isn't enough memory for BVH and low and behold the DE patch had no raytracing or quality mode on XSS. In fact I bet this is why a lot of long time first party devs from MS have dropped previously promised raytracing from their games and XSX isn't getting it now too.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Devs said that XSS will hold next gen back? Which ones?
Dodkrake
Banned
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
You think Halo doesn't have raytracing because of XSS? Interesting theory, considering how slow 343 are with literally everything they do. Also you mentioned "a lot" of first party devs, who else promised raytracing and didn't deliver?
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Looking forward to Fortnite being held back by the Series S. Graphics gonna be wild. They'll also have to cancel all the phone and last gen versions of the game, big sad.
Shmunter
Member
Another developer easily discredited like Amber Turd
Riky
$MSFT
Since 343 had no problem holding back 120fps from Series S until it was ready even though it was on Series X we can throw that theory in the trash as well.
ParaSeoul
Member
It would probably still have to be refined a bit more to draw less power,run even cooler before you can stick that thing in a handheld. They'd probably have a better chip for that by then.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Not discredited, just not very convincing. I've yet to see an explanation to why reducing resolution/frame rate/settings isn't enough to scale down a XSX/PS5 targeted game. It's easy to see why it doesn't work with last gen, since scaling down CPU und SSD is hard or even impossible. But GPU/RAM? I don't see it.
Riky
$MSFT
Well we haven't actually had any next gen only ones yet, but both those modes were not possible on the last gen consoles even One X which was the most powerful, so it's a good indication.
Md Ray
Member
And they still have a lot more memory than XSS.
Riky
$MSFT
Not true again, Spencer said it was the best selling Xbox ever, that includes Xbox One.
"
Phil Spencer, head of Xbox, has revealed the Series X and Series S console generation is the best selling in the 20-year history of the brand.
Spencer announced the record-breaking results in an extensive interview in the New York Times,"
ParaSeoul
Member
But then again The One X versions of 360 back compat games aren't on Series S are they? Or did they change that?
What will MS do if Sony release a PS5 Pro? Will MS release a XSS 2 and a XSX 2 or only a XSX 2? Will MS sell 3 consoles? Will only replace the XSX with a XSX 2? If so then the spec difference between the XSS and the XSX 2 will be bigger than now... so they will have to release a XSS 2. MS obviously will want to keep the title of the most powerful console.
Md Ray
Member
Is that why DOOM Eternal doesn't have ray-tracing on XSS?
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Exactly, it's one of the many things you can do as a dev to scale down XSX games to XSS without compromising the XSX version.
Md Ray
Member
Memory constraints on the Series S - that's why they had to omit RT from the XSS version.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Yeah, RT is quite memory intensive.
Shmunter
Member
You heard the terms target platform, lowest common denominator, path of least resistance, time, money, budget?
The bottleneck is the practicality quotient. Like an example above, if S can’t do Raytracing at whatever target - there is a good chance you won’t see it on x for the game either.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Target platform is PS5/XSX. And those targets can easily be scaled down to run on XSS. It's more work/money, that's why some devs call it a pain, but it won't hold anything back. It's not like XSS is going to be the target platform.
oldergamer
Member
This is all old news. Of course its a challenge to find ways to reduce memory without sacrificing in other areas. Its basically optimization to the extreme.
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