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[Doczu]

Teach a 2 year old object permanence? Yeah good luck with that. I have faculty that are 50+ that can't figure that out.

No, i was more talking about the fits of rage the kid showed. Those can't be totally eradicated, as kids are generally more emotional and "raw", but i haven't seen a kid that did something like this and didn't lack some sort of parental guidance with their temper.
I know our boy has a short fuse (both our fault, we are very... expressive with our emotions), but we put 200% of work to make him not be a spoiled, shit throwing monkey.
And the other thing is that you just have to bear it untill kids can be taught by talking, not only showing. I really can't wait to reach that level...

 

[Doczu]

No. I don't like kids. I'm a bit OCD and hate messes, and you can't have kids without messes. I like having free time and disposable income. And I don't really care about people or life or anything to be honest and I don't think it would be fair for either of us if I were to raise a child.

And yes, I've been snipped so hopefully there won't be any kids in my future.

My wife had a case of ocd level clean surfaces in our house. Our sin is the best ocd therapist you could get. Now she only looks around for dangerous items, the rest just stays

 

[Ellery]

Yup. As a prime specimen I feel the obligation to do so, but this will happen after the marriage and moving into a bigger house.

There are a lot of things that speak against it or seemingly so, but if humans stopped having children whenever they were afraid of hardship ahead then we wouldn't be here and also instead of surrendering to possible hardship we must create strong children that can face, tackle and overcome future problems.

 

[AJUMP23]

Next thread should be, what Gaffers want to have children together?

 

[niilokin]

no. so what's a good cruiser motorcycle for a beginner?

 

[420bits]

41 years old and not once have I felt I wanted kids and that's not going to change.
Plenty of people on this planet (to many), don't see a reason to add additional people on it.

 

[ChickenSandwichlover69]

Even though I love kids and spending time with my little cousins, I can't see myself getting kids in my lifetime. I remember telling my parents that and they look kinda disappointed bahahaha.

Heck.. I'm only 24 and can't even get a gf! Yet, it hits me how my past coworkers who already have 2-3 kids just look so.... well... not too happy. One of them flirted with other female coworkers and even sexted a under age girl. Another one committed sexual harassments. These are early 20 year old parents btw....

Meanwhile I have all the freedom and monnnnaaayyy to myself and don't have to stress a lot on kiddy payments and buying supplies. Heck my doggies are my kids rn!

I also really hate the "huuurrr duuuurr it's part of nature we have to have kids huuurrr duuurrr". Yea... you don't have to follow society's orders and force to have kids. Just enjoy your life with your partner/self and not worried about others judgements.

 

[gela94]

You really thought I was being serious? lol

Not really, I was kinda playing around also. It's hard to get these kind of things across the written media

 

[gela94]

The regulations are in place to ensure that kids out of troubled circumstances will get into the hands of good and caring parents. To avoid having to take them out of that family again.

Because adopted children are often traumatized, from mothers who took drugs/drank/smoked during the pregnancy, there being many unknown factors etc. So raising these kids tend to be (generally, not always of course) an additional challenge. German government will make sure that these parents are aware of this and prepared.

I think there's value in it. At least it's better than increasing the risk of kids getting into the wrong hands.

We started that process but decided not to do it in the end.

Yes I understand and agree why it is in place but it's still alot of bureaucratic bullshitt sometimes.

 

[gela94]

It looka like the adoption laws are crazy in general in Europe.
In Poland they do a thorough background check, income check and they check accomodation possibilities.
I get it, some kind of control and check is needed, but to deny someone having a kid because their income isn't high enough or the kid would have to live in a room with his sibling. Shit makes my furious.

Yeah that is ridiculous and also very sad.

 

[gela94]

I do not want children. Growing up as a single child, I had a lot of friends with younger siblings. I remember watching them destroy everything in the house. As I got older, a few of my friends had kids way earlier at 16~18 and I watch their happiness and dreams disappear. I was always asking if they were happy, and there was always this kind of half-truth to their reply. A friend of mine in his 40s has 2 little girls and he has gone from an energetic super-bro to a fucking zombie. I asked him if he was happy and he said he'lll have to time to be happy when he's dead. Fuck all variants of that.
I see people use kids as an excuse, people being shitty parents, and honstly just see them as tiny plauge carriers. Keep them away from me please.

Well it seems like all the people got kids not because they really wanted but because everybody does.

 

[regawdless]

Yes I understand and agree why it is in place but it's still alot of bureaucratic bullshitt sometimes.

Yeah it's often too much, but Germans love their bureaucracy. As an immigrant, I actually kinda appreciate how well organized a lot of stuff is.

 

[gela94]

Yeah it's often too much, but Germans love their bureaucracy. As an immigrant, I actually kinda appreciate how well organized a lot of stuff is.

Well yes it has it's upsides

 

[Valonquar]

I think another great cautionary tale is my co-worker who did not want kids at all, but his wife talked him into it. They had a boy, and ended up trying again for a girl... and got another boy, then got talked into oooone more try at a girl, and ....had had twin boys. He said his response when they did the sonogram & said it was twins was "That's not fucking funny." Awkward silence.

 

[eot]

Now compare his content face at 2am sleeping next to his wife with his children safely asleep nearby vs to you at 2am.

Honestly I get awful sleep with someone else in bed

 

[Azelover]

Yes, to a certain extent. But I don't have the proper situation where I could have them comfortably.

I know that's thinking backwards. A lot of people I know have children first, and only think about it after they're already here. I couldn't do that..

 

[Susurrus]

I voted yes, because I want the kids I already have. I don't want more kids though (took care of that, heheh snip snip).

Have a 5 y/o Son and a 2 y/o Daughter and love them both a bunch, even if they are super stressful and I haven't slept in in years. That being said, I don't think I could do a 3rd one. Can't let them out number you.

 

[fran.fernandez]

Already have one.
Reasons, life became boring and no meaning.
My boy is now 10 months and I want second one

 

[GardenOfAbbylon]

Honestly I get awful sleep with someone else in bed

I did too until my current SO. Now I can't sleep that well at night if she's not there. Surprised what you don't expect to get used to.

 

[GardenOfAbbylon]

Cool then what is? Please enlighten us. From an atheist perspective, what is the objective meaning of life, since you have decided it is not to perpetuate the species? And give a real answer, not "whatever you want, man".

You don't get to say, "Answer, but not this". That's not how this works. Everyone makes their own decisions as to what the purpose of their own individual life is. We have more than enough people on this planet. Some people are extremely anti-social or introverted. You're saying that them deciding not to have kids means their life has no meaning? That's some extremely misguided arrogance right there. Just because you have to convince yourself that your life has meaning because kids, doesn't mean that everyone else has to be the same. That's just childish thinking on your part. Some people have plans for their life for things they wanna do, places they wanna see, and that can all vanish with the responsibility of having kids. You're saying individual dreams/goals and achieving them has 0 meaning? I pity you.

 

[Reality Czar]

I did not say their life has no meaning. You are putting words into my mouth there. That is an anti-Christian point of view. I would never say that. All human life has dignity and meaning. My own point of view is, from a larger perspective, not a personal "I want to do this" but a "what should humans strive for to make the world better?"

But from an atheist point of view, which you claimed to have, what purpose does satisfying personal goals solve, if they do not perpetuate the species? Or do you not believe in the law of Natural Selection? God imbues every life with dignity and a purpose, it is atheism that claims otherwise. How does an atheist derive meaning, is my question.

Dreams and goals of people can provide personal pleasure, but it is temporary. That is fine. I did not say people cannot find person happiness. But these things will not provide lasting happiness.

Family provides lasting meaning. Your children will (barring tragedy) outlive you, and your "dream" will thus last longer than your natural life on this Earth. Even when your brain is going and your memory is leaving you and your body remains on this world, your children will be there to take care of you. This is end of life peace of mind no other experience can buy. This is something no worldly goal can bring.

No videogame or movie will give this to you. No job that you get or place that you see or fame that you acquire can give you the peace of mind that your genetic material will live on, that your personal culture and values (and yes, dreams and goals) will live on, and that you will be remembered.

 

[holyax]

wow thats an equal poll

 

[holyax]

I think I may want some one day, but not currently. as career and stuff is on my mind 24/7

 

[holyax]

oh I just noticed I cant vote :/ Do i need to reach a certain post count?

 

[German Hops]

Only if you guarantee that my kid would turn out like this:

 

[SKM1]

Go go team YES let's overpopulate this shit

 

[IDKFA]

Surprised with the amount of 'no' votes.

Reproducing the human race is the reason we're all here. It's pretty much the meaning of life.

 

[fran.fernandez]

Yesterday I took my son to a trip kinda far, 1 hour train1 hour bus. He is 10 months but look like 1 year.
1 hour train - OK sleep all time
1 hour bus full of people, he screen , cry. I see some people covering their ear, I felt so bad, he is small but super strong lungs. Some people came to help but nothing. He HATE to sit on car/bus but my wife never take him out the child sit for security reasons. this time was so bad she took him out and gave to me over the sits (I was sitting in front roll). You guys hate when baby cry, me to, now being a parent and holding him, feels 100 times worse. Lol
trip was hell, never more. Haha

 

[G-Bus]

Have a daughter that turns 2 in a couple weeks. Just found out wife is pregnant few days ago. Definitely ready for another one.

As hard and exhausting as it can be at times, I absolutely love it. It's incredible. 0 to 1 was cool. 1 to 2 is insane. Can't wait to see how much she grows and changes from 2 to 3. Also can't wait to do it all again except maybe not those first couple months. Oh man does that suck at times. Not looking forward to those 2 hour feeding schedules, and the puke. Ohhh man all that spit up.

 

[levyjl1988]

I wish I could have a clone of my younger self as Jango Fett did with Boba.

 

[bajouras]

So, not wanting to have kids because they are a burden and annoying... it makes me wonder, do people that feel that way also feel they shouldnt have been born because they were like that to their parents? How does all that thought process work? Are they the exception? Or that doesnt matter because its not their choice? Really wondering about this.

 

[German Hops]

Or that doesn't matter because its not their choice?

You bring up a good point there. It's not their choice.

 

[bajouras]

You bring up a good point there. It's not their choice.

I guess it doesnt really matter arguing over this entire deal. I mean we can go into the "what if you had the choice" scenario, but it doesnt matter since you wont ever have that choice.

 

[German Hops]

I guess it doesn't really matter arguing over this entire deal. I mean we can go into the "what if you had the choice" scenario, but it doesn't matter since you wont ever have that choice.

I'm not trying to argue here, but how do you feel about people who decide to not have children, due to the fact that they would be bringing a life into the world without their consent?

I personally think it's a very rational and responsible decision. What about you?

 

[GymWolf]

No offense, but all these posts about having children being the maximux aspiration and realization of a human being are fucking hilarious tbh.

 

[bajouras]

I'm not trying to argue here, but how do you feel about people who decide to not have children, due to the fact that they would be bringing a life into the world without their consent?

I personally think it's a very rational and responsible decision. What about you?

Also not trying to argue, sorry if it sounded like that, Im just in between trying to find a thought.
I also think youve raised a fair point. But in that case we also go into the what if scenario since we cant really determine if the child consents or not before he is born, right?
I guess the problem here is that the parents have to make a choice thats kinda not entirely their own (kinda?) And that is a lot of responsobility, and can go awfully if the parents suck as people. Or maybe is the parents job to make the kid "consent after they are born" or something haha

 

[Marcus Aurelius]

No offense, but all these post about having children being the maximux aspiration and realization of a human being are fucking hilarious tbh.

Indeed even though I'm pro having children. Same with the legacy argument.

Kids or not, your bloodline will end eventually and hell, your grand-grand children will probably not even know your name or care about you. And after a couple of generations your DNA will only be <1% anyway.

Also most kids will grow up as the average Joe, funny how some think they'll give birth to the next Einstein. More chance your child will be next sucker on this rock.

When you look at it purely rational and leave emotions aside, there is no reason to have any kids at all.

 

[Lupingosei]

No, had an abusive father and I am not sure if I could control myself all the time.

Never want anybody else to feel what I felt, so better break the cycle here now.

 

[Reality Czar]

Surprised with the amount of 'no' votes.

Reproducing the human race is the reason we're all here. It's pretty much the meaning of life.

The death cult is strong. Consumerism has worked a number on these people. They are all so demoralized. There are people here supporting their own extermination reaching for that bs "overpopulation" narrative.

No offense, but all these posts about having children being the maximux aspiration and realization of a human being are fucking hilarious tbh.

Why do you think that is hilarious? What do you think is the "maximux aspiration and realization of a human being"?

The problem with people arguing against having kids is, they really aren't offering a counter argument. A laugh isn't a counter argument.

What should we be striving for if having kids is a waste of time?

Also most kids will grow up as the average Joe, funny how some think they'll give birth to the next Einstein. More chance your child will be next sucker on this rock.

Se what? Are kids only worth having if they are the next Einstein?

Lol at the idea that if you kid isn't a genius he doesn't deserve to live. You should thank God your own father didn't believe that.

 

[AJUMP23]

No, had an abusive father and I am not sure if I could control myself all the time.

Never want anybody else to feel what I felt, so better break the cycle here now.

My grandfather was an abusive drunk to my father. Would drag him out of bed and beat him if his socks were folded the wrong way. My father never abused me one time. He did spank me, which I don't see as abuse when done properly. But my father never hit me in anger or hit me at all. Just because your father was awful does not mean you will be. What it probably means is that you would guard against making the same mistakes your dad made. And if you do have fears and have a child, talk to your partner about your fears. They will help you correct if they ever see you crossing a line.

I saw a dad this weekend at a soccer game for 7 year old's, yank his kid off the field and take him home. I wanted to go talk to that dad and tell him to relax, let his son learn and if you want him to improve practice with him at home.

 

[Madflavor]

I don't think the average person truly knows themselves and what their capable of, until they give life to something. And that life is the most precious thing you have. I will never understand how any parent could abandon or abuse their children, and I'm really sorry for anyone here who experienced that.

Just my two cents.

 

[GymWolf]

The death cult is strong. Consumerism has worked a number on these people. They are all so demoralized. There are people here supporting their own extermination reaching for that bs "overpopulation" narrative.

Why do you think that is hilarious? What do you think is the "maximux aspiration and realization of a human being"?

The problem with people arguing against having kids is, they really aren't offering a counter argument. A laugh isn't a counter argument.

What should we be striving for if having kids is a waste of time?

Se what? Are kids only worth having if they are the next Einstein?

Lol at the idea that if you kid isn't a genius he doesn't deserve to live. You should thank God your own father didn't believe that.

The fact is that we don't need you an explanation because all people are different and have various aspiration in life, thinking that having children is the max aspiration of any human being is a very restricted point of view.

 

[CrankyJay™]

I have two kids, it's great, but I wouldn't dare have another, and I pretty much hate everyone else's kids.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Children kids are special but the question is more than want and only the adult can answer that, you can have great kids but you can’t return kids.

 

[Reality Czar]

The fact is that we don't need you an explanation because all people are different and have various aspiration in life, thinking that having children is the max aspiration of any human being is a very restricted point of view.

You can quit with the "owing me an explanation" victimizing bs. I am just asking your point of view.

Why do you think having kids is a hilarious goal? Do you think it is less worthy than "various aspirations"? What aspirations are those?

 

[GymWolf]

You can quit with the "owing me an explanation" victimizing bs. I am just asking your point of view.

Why do you think having kids is a hilarious goal? Do you think it is less worthy than "various aspirations"? What aspirations are those?

Dont change my words please, i didn't say that having children is not a good purprose in life, i laugh at the idea that this is the same for every human being.

And like i said, there is not a correct answer, there is no a certified counter-proposal to making children, everyone is free to do the fuck they wants without the need of giving any explanation and it's different for everyone.

Do you feel peak realization making childs? Good for you, doesn't mean that every other guy who does not make children has an empty life without purpose.

Even something like living la vida loca and enjoying freedom, money and women is as fullfilling as having a family with childrens, and sometimes people who think otherwise make me think that they are just jelous of people who choose to live that type of life and they need the illusion of being on the right side of history because they are making a child to feel better with themselfs (not talking specifically about you).

 

[GardenOfAbbylon]

I did not say their life has no meaning. You are putting words into my mouth there.

Oh, really?

For anyone who considers themselves a materialist or atheist, having children is literally the objective meaning of life.

You said, it, not me.

But from an atheist point of view, which you claimed to have, what purpose does satisfying personal goals solve, if they do not perpetuate the species? Or do you not believe in the law of Natural Selection? God imbues every life with dignity and a purpose, it is atheism that claims otherwise. How does an atheist derive meaning, is my question.

No videogame or movie will give this to you. No job that you get or place that you see or fame that you acquire can give you the peace of mind that your genetic material will live on, that your personal culture and values (and yes, dreams and goals) will live on, and that you will be remembered.

So you're delusional. Your 'arguments' make so much more sense now. You're one of those that can't think for themself. You'd rather follow a potentially fictional being (God) instead of choosing your own destiny. I pity you. Honestly.

 

[Reality Czar]

I'm just trying to consider an atheist point of view. You don't believe in God, so there is no objective morality telling you what to do. Thus you have no direciton, no objective "good" to be working towards. This is how atheism seems to me, as a Christian. I'm just trying to understand the line of thinking.

So you can say, I have nothing to live for other than momentary experience. But that is just hedonism, and it can lead to death. If you want to do coke nonstop and eat steaks, go for it. But it will kill you faster, and your body will suffer. We know these things, so we don't go 100% hedonist.

So we realize that we can relieve ourselves of possible future pain by making sacrificial choices. Thus we do not live as hedonists, purely for ourselves in the moment. I am not going to eat steak every single night so that I can do so once or twice a month and have it be a savory experience. There is no such thing as total freedom. We all make sacrifices to not do one thing in order to do another.

Now, all of that is fine, but what about our failing senses? As we get old, we lose our hearing, our sight, our memory even. Someone above thread was saying "What is the point of children, your grand grand children will not remember you" but this ignores the fact that you may not even remember yourself when you are older. Hedonistic experience can be fun what is the point of even doing these things if you can't remember them? For a materialist atheist, I wonder what the answer is?

This is where the value of having children and a legacy comes in for me. You do have some level of awareness. My grandfather passed away a few years ago and after having a stroke he spent several days in his bed with visitors. I was able to spend time with him and while he was unable to talk, he was responding to what me and my family were saying. He was there, with us, aware. He could not eat a steak or do coke, he could not even speak, but he was alive. IMO all life has a transcendent dignity that no material experience can provide. This is a big part of my faith in God. This is why bringing more life into the world seems like a worthy goal.

 

[GardenOfAbbylon]

I'm just trying to consider an atheist point of view. You don't believe in God, so there is no objective morality telling you what to do. Thus you have no direciton, no objective "good" to be working towards. This is how atheism seems to me, as a Christian. I'm just trying to understand the line of thinking.

If there was a God, she'd be ashamed of you just on this alone. You're stating, erroneously and arrogantly, that someone can't have morals if they're an atheist. I'm done with you if you're going to be a spineless ignoramous like this. Someone can have morals without being religious. What the fuck. Wow. You're exactly why people are slowly dropping their beliefs. It's dumb hateful shit like that from fake Christians (like yourself, because you are, whether you think so or not) that are making people leave the church. I don't need to 'work toward a good'. I take on my adult responsibilities like paying bills just fine. I help others when I can. Not for me or because it's going to earn me some imaginary points on my Church Punch Card (12 stamps and you get even closer to god!). I do it because I want to. Because helping people when possible is the right thing to do. We need to take care of each other. And that doesn't mean gathering hands under a statue of a guy nailed to a cross and singing shitty Christian rock songs. You can have morals and take care of yourself, others, and society as a whole with 0 religion in your life. You keep harping on about, 'sPeCiEs ImPeRaTiVe" like it's some big, "Ah ha, gotcha!" defense. Why are you so obsessed with trying to pass on something to your little clone? Because you can't handle your own failures in life I guess. I've never broken a law, done hard drugs, assaulted anyone or anything. And all with my morals that have been in no way influenced by religion.

It's called belief and not fact for a reason.

And i'm done with you as well. You've shown the same negative trait that all fake Christians (because yes, you are a fake) exhibit. You blindly believe in something that could very well be a fairy tail and waste your lives by ignoring what you're doing now, instead of what could come after you die. No one knows. Anyone claiming they do is full of shit. Even people who, "OMG I DIED AND SAW HEAVEN". The brain does crazy things as it's dying. It's likely they show you what you want to see. Doesn't mean it's real.

Reply however you want. I'm not going to waste my time with you after I hit 'Post Reply'. You claim you didn't say something and I put words in your mouth, I prove you a liar and a hypocrite and you ignore it (typical fake Christian tactic). You make a false correlation between having religion and morals. That's incorrect as well. Arrogant as hell too. Like I said, if there was a God, she'd be ashamed of you.

I'm out. Get fucked.

 

[Mossybrew]

I'm just trying to consider an atheist point of view.

You're not doing a very good job of it. In fact you should probably just stick to sharing your own point of view, and not that of some imagined atheist bogeyman in your head. It all just kinda makes you seem insecure in your own beliefs.