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[LordCBH]

Even the studio that is doing Fable now looks like it might be due for layoffs after the performance of Forza Motorsports.

Different studio. Forza MS is from Turn 10. Fable is from the guys who do Forza Horizon, Playground.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Yep Hellblade won't sell consoles just as Ico didn't sell consoles.

Never thought I'd see the day where ICOs name would be used in vain to that degree.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Yep Hellblade won't sell consoles just as Ico didn't sell consoles.

I suspect Hellblade will be the next downgrade scandal in gaming.

 

[Flabagast]

I think it’s now fair to say that by buying Bethesda, MS literally destroyed value.

With everything accounted for (revenue attributable to gamepass boosts, direct sales, hardware boost) at the end of the day the total expected income from Starfield will probably be 50 to 70% lower than initial targets before the acquisition.

That’s massive

 

[skit_data]

I suspect Hellblade will be the next downgrade scandal in gaming.

I think it will look pretty damn good because Ninja Theory did some impressive work with the original graphics-wise, but I can't see it being anything other than 30fps.

Also, anyone expecting it to go toe to toe with God of War in terms of being a system seller haven't played the original. It's definitely not for everyone.

 

[FrankWza]

Yep Hellblade won't sell consoles just as Ico didn't sell consoles.

Hellblade 2 won't sell consoles just as Hellblade didn't sell consoles.
Cool audio though.

 

[StealthGoblin]

I suspect Hellblade will be the next downgrade scandal in gaming.

I think the Series X will hold up, but I suspect the Series S will have a lot of compromises.

It's not a wide game so it's easier to focus on the details.

 

[hepfom]

i think Microsoft's next pivot will be to handhelds.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Europe seems to hate Xbox. Time to bring them some freedom!

Please don’t, we are all socialists, borderline commies. We hate guns, speak funny languages and have free healthcare. Freedom Road is the other way.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

i think Microsoft's next pivot will be to handhelds.

In the end something has to work…right?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

3rd party is their best bet now.

 

[ByWatterson]

Day 1 AAA on Gamepass was a mistake.

This is really the beginning and end of any good take.

Microsoft devalued its software, and its hardware by extension, and now they have to choose between being a Gamepass company (the ubiquity of which renders the hardware irrelevant) or a platform holder/hardware company (which clearly cannot coexist with Gamepass ubiquity).

I think we're at the beginning of the end for them as a dedicated platform holder, I really do.

 

[Varteras]

That’s massive

...and growing?

Yes. I'm gonna ride that motherfucker until the wheels fall off.

 

[Varteras]

Please don’t, we are all socialists, borderline commies. We hate guns, speak funny languages and have free healthcare. Freedom Road is the other way.

Shut your mouth, freedomless scum!

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

How they perform in this generation and how they close this generation out will have a large impact on next generation. So when you say they should forget this generation, what does that mean exactly?

I mean it's over. There's nothing they can do this gen and if they plan to start out next gen with a console they'll get destroyed even harder. They need to be planning for a hybrid console or a different strategy. Going with another console next gen would be an even bigger disaster than this gen regardless of how they close out this gen.

 

[Chastten]

Three years into the new generation and there's still not a single reason for me to buy a Series. The few games on Xbox that I care about, I can also play pretty much anywhere else. I don't like the idea of subscriptions and the fact that 'my' games can be taken away at any given time, so Gamepass isn't a selling point for me either, especially since I'm not poor and can buy whatever the fuck I want.

I'm really not sure what Microsoft's plan is but right now I can only see them go further down.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think it’s now fair to say that by buying Bethesda, MS literally destroyed value.

With everything accounted for (revenue attributable to gamepass boosts, direct sales, hardware boost) at the end of the day the total expected income from Starfield will probably be 50 to 70% lower than initial targets before the acquisition.

That’s massive

It's very interesting to look at Zenimax and Bungie.

Sony kept Bungie multiplatform. All of its revenue streams are still there. The biggest difference is that Sony keeps 100% of the revenue on PlayStation platforms now in lieu of the 30%. If Marathon isn't a huge success, you still have a chance with Destiny 3. I still think they should make a single-player campaign in the meantime, maybe in conjunction with Firewalk and/or Sucker Punch.

Sony has a far greater chance of maintaining and growing the value of Bungie, whereas Zenimax will almost certainly never reach growth.

Bethesda spent 8 years on Starfield for basically nothing to be outsold by Mortal Kombat.

Layoffs are almost inevitable at this point. We'll see the same with other Microsoft studios like Turn 10. There's no way Microsoft can fully absorb the failure of Forza in addition to Starfield.

Forza was what 6 years in development? I don't know how you recover from this. I wonder if Sony will look to pick some of the staff up to boost Gran Turismo development. But I just don't know how you can release another Forza at this point, at least not this generation. Do you give them the go ahead to create Forza Motorsport 2 on the next gen and fund them for the next 6-7 years? That would be pretty bold given this game sold absolutely nothing.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I mean it's over. There's nothing they can do this gen and if they plan to start out next gen with a console they'll get destroyed even harder. They need to be planning for a hybrid console or a different strategy. Going with another console next gen would be an even bigger disaster than this gen regardless of how they close out this gen.

I think they need to put out the streaming stick for like 100 dollars with a controller. Let you stream GamePass games and stream purchased game library games via xCloud.

I think that's their present and their future.

That and to get TV manufacturers to put the app on their TVs and deals with Amazon, Roku, and Apple to get the app on their streaming devices too.

 

[Klayzer]

I think they need to put out the streaming stick for like 100 dollars with a controller. Let you stream GamePass games and stream purchased game library games via xCloud.

I think that's their present and their future.

That and to get TV manufacturers to put the app on their TVs and deals with Amazon, Roku, and Apple to get the app on their streaming devices too.

A streaming stick is a very interesting idea for Xbox.

 

[demigod]

Ask Phillip III

Phil Spencer (@XboxP3) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from Phil Spencer (@XboxP3). Head of Xbox | #PowerYourDreams. Redmond, WA | Gamer Tag: P3

twitter.com

Nah bro, since you come into every thread spouting engagement, i’d like to see it straight from the horse’s mouth.

 

[demigod]

Now you're actually catching up to the conversation from over a year ago, and I'll give you credit that you're actually the only person in the thread that seems to actually be concerned about a potential monopoly and lack of competition.

So now, how do you fix the unusually sticky hyper market consolidation if traditional competition metrics no longer work? Price cuts and cheaper system doesn't work. PS raises the price and sales go up. Cheaper games day 1 on GP doesn't work. PS raises the price of games and sales go up. What would you do to save the gaming industry from being locked to the PSN digital storefront almost exclusively? I propose (over a year ago) that you allow the Activision merger. PS will always have Call of Duty, but now MS has secured enough revenue that they will be profitable without question and they aren't going anywhere. They can keep experimenting to see if anything works and the console industry will still have competition.

We were that close to the edge of the cliff, but the gaming industry was saved with the Activision / MS buyout. Jim Ryan nearly had us all.

Talks about sony monopoly yet ms are the ones gobbling up publishers to become a monopoly. Delusional. Don’t be like this guy.

Ms saved the industry with Activision, yeah sure. What happened to the industry having a union? Sure went the way of the dodo fast.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Ms saved the industry with Activision, yeah sure. What happened to the industry having a union? Sure went the way of the dodo fast.

MS is going to allow Activision to unionize any day now! Right guys?

Remember that bullshit they tried spewing? Honk honk!

"By union, we meant all 3rd party publishers and IPs under our unity."

 

[akaFullmetal]

Not forgetting Silent Hill 2, Granblue Fantasy: Relink, and that game where you get to play as a butt*.

(* - Stellar Blade)

 

[Klayzer]

MS is going to unionize any day now! Right guys?

Remember that bullshit they tried spewing? Honk honk!

"By union, we meant all 3rd party publishers and IPs under our unity."

I know we all have our preferred consoles, but "saved the industry" is one of the most ridiculous takes I've read here. Hell, the acquisition might not save Xbox, let alone the industry.

 

[JTCx]

I know we all have our preferred consoles, but "saved the industry" is one of the most ridiculous takes I've read here. Hell, the acquisition might not save Xbox, let alone the industry.

The dude talks about not being a brand ambassador but straight up exposes himself with the most stupidest take lmfao.

 

[Skifi28]

I know we all have our preferred consoles, but "saved the industry" is one of the most ridiculous takes I've read here. Hell, the acquisition might not save Xbox, let alone the industry.

Fan fiction taken to a whole new level.

 

[DForce]

Now you're actually catching up to the conversation from over a year ago, and I'll give you credit that you're actually the only person in the thread that seems to actually be concerned about a potential monopoly and lack of competition.

So now, how do you fix the unusually sticky hyper market consolidation if traditional competition metrics no longer work? Price cuts and cheaper system doesn't work. PS raises the price and sales go up. Cheaper games day 1 on GP doesn't work. PS raises the price of games and sales go up. What would you do to save the gaming industry from being locked to the PSN digital storefront almost exclusively? I propose (over a year ago) that you allow the Activision merger. PS will always have Call of Duty, but now MS has secured enough revenue that they will be profitable without question and they aren't going anywhere. They can keep experimenting to see if anything works and the console industry will still have competition.

We were that close to the edge of the cliff, but the gaming industry was saved with the Activision / MS buyout. Jim Ryan nearly had us all.

They didn't need the ABK merger, they needed better games.

The majority of their biggest games this generation were met with an underwhelming response. It's hard to sell consoles when people don't have faith in your product. Their plans for this generation started years ago and it's not going to be a quick turnaround. They're losing ground with every release that doesn't meet game's expectations. If people keep hearing negative things about Xbox and their games then it's going to make gamers look at Nintendo and PlayStation.

 

[kruis]

I think they need to put out the streaming stick for like 100 dollars with a controller. Let you stream GamePass games and stream purchased game library games via xCloud.

I think that's their present and their future.

That and to get TV manufacturers to put the app on their TVs and deals with Amazon, Roku, and Apple to get the app on their streaming devices too.

I simply don't see how game streaming will ever be profitable. The problem is that video streaming and game streaming are fundamentally different entities. Ten years ago it was already possible for one single Netflix video streaming server to stream tens of thousands movies simultaneously because it only needs lots of network bandwidth and plenty of hard disk/SSD storage to stores all those video files. Network and storage, that's exactly what cloud servers are built for.

But game streaming is fundamentally different. You're not playing a video file off a hard disk, you're playing a video game in real time that's running on a dedicated piece of server hardware in a remote server location. If you want to play a video game on a cloud gaming service by MS or Sony in high quality (4K 60 fps with the same visuals as an Xbox Series X or PS5) that dedicated cloud gaming server can only handle one gaming session at the time, since the game will be running on a custom built Xbox Series X or PS5 housed in a blade server.

If Netflix wants to stream movies to one million logged in susbscribers, they'd only need to install 50 servers. If Sony wants to stream games to one million concurrent PS+ subscribers, they'd need to install one million PS5 blade servers.

 

[knguyen]

Surprise, Phil and his empty promises are showing their consequences.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I simply don't see how game streaming will ever be profitable. The problem is that video streaming and game streaming are fundamentally different entities. Ten years ago it was already possible for one single Netflix video streaming server to stream tens of thousands movies simultaneously because it only needs lots of network bandwidth and plenty of hard disk/SSD storage to stores all those video files. Network and storage, that's exactly what cloud servers are built for.

But game streaming is fundamentally different. You're not playing a video file off a hard disk, you're playing a video game in real time that's running on a dedicated piece of server hardware in a remote server location. If you want to play a video game on a cloud gaming service by MS or Sony in high quality (4K 60 fps with the same visuals as an Xbox Series X or PS5) that dedicated cloud gaming server can only handle one gaming session at the time, since the game will be running on a custom built Xbox Series X or PS5 housed in a blade server.

If Netflix wants to stream movies to one million logged in susbscribers, they'd only need to install 50 servers. If Sony wants to stream games to one million concurrent PS+ subscribers, they'd need to install one million PS5 blade servers.

Actually streaming is not even profitable for movies/TV shows as now every major studio has its own service so the internet companies like Netflix, Apple, Amazon has to produce a LOT of exclusive content to keep subscribers...


But they don't have a 100+ year library like the major studios do...

 

[DenchDeckard]

100% agreement in principal. However, we don't need any more acquisitions of 3rd party publishers because that is neither decent nor healthy competition. All it does it take away from some and not actually benefit anyone.

Completely agree. Acquisitions are not the way.

I mean that if Microsoft sees Sony as a strong competitor they would be more willing to recognise their flaws. And then make changes to address a strong competitor. I guess Microsoft doesn't really see Sony as being strong competition which is why they are going down this path.

I think the xbox brand is that damaged that potentially they can never "turn it around" they will just continue to make revenue and whatever else happens.

I think we have seen enough years of Microsoft failing to admit they will never turn the tide and get to a level close to Sony in hardware sales.

 

[Woopah]

Now, yes. Let’s hope the future keeps delivering.

I'm pretty confident they will.

You've conflated revenue with profit. Any exclusivity rendered from the ABK deal outside of CoD will almost certainly see the same results as games like Starfield and Forza. These games don't drive system sales and are simply boxed in from outside sales. Operating costs exceed revenues, which means you're taking a loss.

Microsoft one way or another is going to diminish in the console space. That doesn't mean there will be a monopoly though. Nintendo could very well step back in compete garnering a great deal of Xbox fans. I wouldn't be surprised to see Nintendo buy Sega in that scenario to bolster their 1P production.

Out of curiosity, why Sega?

While we got impressive sales for new releases like Mirage, Spider-Man 2 and SMBW, it seems like Forza Motorsport completely belly-flopped in Europe.
Not too surprising because weekly sales charts were already painting clear picture.

Regarding hardware sales the situation remains the same, though I expected Switch to decline less YoY due to SMBW bundles.

Yeah it was disappointing to me too. The bundles and Wonder had very little effect. I think they should be aiming to be less than 15% down for 2023 as a whole, since in 2024 they will be down even more.

 

[GHG]

The dude talks about not being a brand ambassador but straight up exposes himself with the most stupidest take lmfao.

Fully gone off in the deep end. Everything from parroting ambassador shittakes to defending and promoting mediocre/shit games.

The siege mentality is real.

 

[Crayon]

I thought they were going to go for a streaming stick halfway through the ps4 gen. But then I was much more bullish on streaming and I thought they would not continue the losing hardware battle but phil turned out to be kind of a moron.

I really hope he tries to start a new gen early. That would make matters 5x worse.

 

[mckmas8808]

Unless they plan to hemorrhage money to slash the console prices how do they turn this around in two years now? They took their best shots already, and the only real difference maker in Activision can’t be exclusive for a decade. It’s time to embrace being 4th party (1st and 3rd combined) while making sure their games are first or better on Xbox to salvage the brand while making money off these massive investments (without damaging the acquired IPs by limiting sales to chase a boat that keeps drifting further from shore).

The only then they have is GamePass. They need to hope courts all over the world will force GamePass on Switch 2 and PS5 consoles. It's the only thing they have left.

 

[yazenov]

PS will always have Call of Duty, but now MS has secured enough revenue that they will be profitable without question and they aren't going anywhere.

 

[havoc00]

Sony's plan is to push as much hardware as possible in order to keep their advantage in console marketshare. This is not a bad strategy and its clear that Sony sacrifice profits for it. It allows them to control the market better when face with big money pockets that is MS. MS on the other hand has made a lot of mistakes, taken way to long to get their stuff together and way to long to properly execute their plan. Sony has been humming along great ever since the PS4 and in that Gen they dominated on every front.

Even the beginning of this gen Sony did not miss a beat which allowed them to come out strong in the face of MS having to delay games and of course having Redfall not just fall but tank. Its no wonder Sony isn't even more ahead in Europe where they have always dominated MS but because MS has diversified they have found new paths to those gamers. You do not get into MS situation overnight and you definitely will not get out of it overnight as well. It will take a number of years of excellence at least on the console part to dent Sony dominance. If this is the floor of MS problems in Europe as far as console sales goes, then they probably are in a better position than they should be. But the corner really need to be turned now so we will see how they execute from here on out.

 

[T-0800]

Don't worry MS will release early next gen. They will then pull a Dreamcast (they wish) and then announce they a platform agnostic a year later.

 

[H-I-M]

Sony's plan is to push as much hardware as possible in order to keep their advantage in console marketshare. This is not a bad strategy and its clear that Sony sacrifice profits for it.

I understand that no one is buying the Series S, but let's not like it doesn't exist.

Talking about profits, do we know the numbers for Xbox? Microsoft hasn't shared them in years, I wonder why

 

[Shakka43]

Xbox should be looking into the handheld market it they want to gain some relevancy. The console market is starting to become a lost cause.

 

[Thirty7ven]

If this is the floor of MS problems in Europe as far as console sales goes, then they probably are in a better position than they should be. But the corner really need to be turned now so we will see how they execute from here on out.

You can’t be serious. What’s the floor to you? 0 consoles sold? Sure it could get worse next year I guess.

 

[onnextflix5]

90% Xbox sales are from the uk, that kinda just sums it up, not sure what they can do really.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Now you're actually catching up to the conversation from over a year ago, and I'll give you credit that you're actually the only person in the thread that seems to actually be concerned about a potential monopoly and lack of competition.

So now, how do you fix the unusually sticky hyper market consolidation if traditional competition metrics no longer work? Price cuts and cheaper system doesn't work. PS raises the price and sales go up. Cheaper games day 1 on GP doesn't work. PS raises the price of games and sales go up. What would you do to save the gaming industry from being locked to the PSN digital storefront almost exclusively? I propose (over a year ago) that you allow the Activision merger. PS will always have Call of Duty, but now MS has secured enough revenue that they will be profitable without question and they aren't going anywhere. They can keep experimenting to see if anything works and the console industry will still have competition.

We were that close to the edge of the cliff, but the gaming industry was saved with the Activision / MS buyout. Jim Ryan nearly had us all.

This is a brilliant troll post. So many people in this thread fell for it too

 

[Shane89]

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You can’t be serious. What’s the floor to you? 0 consoles sold? Sure it could get worse next year I guess.

Nobody expected 50% yoy declines 3 years into the gen a month after Starfield

Somehow spinning this into a positive “floor” made me laugh

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

They’ve grown too large on the software side to keep up the exclusive game with console splits like this. No longer makes financial sense to chase 100% of sales revenue on 10-20% of market compared to 70-80%from other 80-90% of market.

Microsoft believes they can force their way into a monopoly with gamepass and they'll keep throwing money at it.

 

[buenoblue]

Phil has heard you. Next year Phil will deliver games.

 

[ByWatterson]

Yep Hellblade won't sell consoles just as Ico didn't sell consoles.

Ico was actually THE reason I pulled the trigger on the PS2.

But then, I'm a very unique and special boy.

 

[Yoboman]

So the ABK acqusition and Starfield actually caused a decline

Seems gamers aren't big fans of predatory acquisition tactics

 

[Banjo64]

So now, how do you fix the unusually sticky hyper market consolidation if traditional competition metrics no longer work? Price cuts and cheaper system doesn't work. PS raises the price and sales go up. Cheaper games day 1 on GP doesn't work. PS raises the price of games and sales go up. What would you do to save the gaming industry from being locked to the PSN digital storefront almost exclusively?