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[Ethelwulf]

"Sorry officer I crashed my car because I was drunk"

 

[SinCityAssassin]

So is there police involvement or no?

 

[Austriacus]

Simply pointing at society and toxic masulinity as a whole is also not a solution or data either.

What data do I need? The fact that it even happens is disgusting. There's no threshold of acceptability. No "only 3 people have done it this year and been publicly report, that's ok I guess".

And I have suggested solutions. Limit alcohol, or just not allow it. Be more restrictive on how many people can be in a room. Maybe not hold late night panels focused on perverse content at supposedly all-ages conventions so as to not attract people who might be gross.

My understanding from reading the twitt is that this happened on a private room with no affiliation with the event.

Pray tell how do you plan to restrict adults from drinking in Las vegas.

 

[dity]

You think yourself a gardener, but you have no power. You are simply the neighbor across the street yelling at the gardener to tend to his lawn. As such you scream and you scream, and you fail to notice the orchard of trees extending across the land. You fail to notice that these trees have no gardeners. You may cut down a tree, but by the time you do you realize the forest has enveloped you. And by the time you cut down one tree, the forest has already shed its pollen which has been blown by the wind to affect lands far away from you. And those trees will soon spread their seed. You were too focused on the branch, that you missed the forest.

We do not live in a forest, we live in a neighbourhood full of different individuals and everyone is trying to keep this tree on public property from growing out of control onto their respective properties.

Do not make excuses. You simply just wish to do nothing. You don't want to be a gardener, someone else can sort it out. You'll yell from your window "wow, someone needs to do something about that tree, it's growing into my backyard and I don't want to keep maintaining it". Before long after not maintaining the branch you just start ignoring it, pushing it out of the way when you walk past. Your backyard is a mess, but what can you do? That tree's still there. Why bother trying?

This issue is one that is deeply ingrained in the human condition in general. Those at these conventions what are they first, geeks or people? There's more chance of these sorts of things happening because there's a higher concentration of males, them being mostly geeks is entirely arbitrary.

Deeply ingrained in the human condition? Humans basically start as a blank slate. You're not toxic from birth by default. Gamers and whatnot are absorbing this attitude from somewhere, and unless their family is like this the only real other place to get it from is the community and friends - who probably introduced them to the mindset.

You think limiting alcohol will prevent this? Just like Hyuga used alcohol for his scapegoat, so are you.

Oh for heaven's sake. Alcohol is no excuse for doing what he did, but alcohol was involved.

 

[Seiniyta]

A global smash tournament ban for a couple of years at the minimum. This cannot be tolerated and he needs to seek help so this doesn't happen again in his life in the future.

I'm glad the scene is acting swiftly and justly upon it and hope Vikki can move on from this.


That aside, I also hope this doesn't cause a stain on the scene as a whole for an isolated incident like this.

 

[Sandfox]

Simply pointing at society and toxic masulinity as a whole is also not a solution or data either.

What data do I need? The fact that it even happens is disgusting. There's no threshold of acceptability. No "only 3 people have done it this year and been publicly report, that's ok I guess".

And I have suggested solutions. Limit alcohol, or just not allow it. Be more restrictive on how many people can be in a room. Maybe not hold late night panels focused on perverse content at supposedly all-ages conventions so as to not attract people who might be gross.

You're trying to claim that geeks are likely sexually assault people due to them being socially awkward or sexually deprived so I would say that requires data.

The TOs and community can't control what people drink or where they sleep on their own time.

Deeply ingrained in the human condition? Humans basically start as a blank slate. You're not toxic from birth by default. Gamers and whatnot are absorbing this attitude from somewhere, and unless their family is like this the only real other place to get it from is the community and friends - who probably introduced them to the mindset.

Which why people are saying its a problem with society.

 

[Nudull]

Just hearing about this now. Bring drunk is no excuse for anything, let alone sexual assault. Good that he's been banned and dropped by sponsors.

 

[zoukka]

His life in the internets is over. Good.

 

[Octavianus]

He still did it regardless. I'm not saying he's a naturally bad person and he seems likeable when you see him on stream, but he still committed a crime and you can't just pin down alcohol or drugs or anything that clouds your judgment as the cause because you are liable to your actions and it is your responsibility to keep your head straight to prevent yourself from doing harmful things like this.

Well, I am.
I'm sorry but if you molest somene you're a terrible person.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

We do not live in a forest, we live in a neighbourhood full of different individuals and everyone is trying to keep this tree on public property from growing out of control onto their respective properties.

Do not make excuses. You simply just wish to do nothing. You don't want to be a gardener, someone else can sort it out. You'll yell from your window "wow, someone needs to do something about that tree, it's growing into my backyard and I don't want to keep maintaining it". Before long after not maintaining the branch you just start ignoring it, pushing it out of the way when you walk past. Your backyard is a mess, but what can you do? That tree's still there.

Im sorry are you saying I should do something

I am trying to do something by trying to explain that scapegoating the geek culture as being a problem(or in this case, the fighting game culture) is short-sighted.

See, I used descriptive text to hopefully paint a picture you could visualize to understand the bigger picture at play here, and why scapegoating one subset of humanity doesnt work. Not so you can try to poetically match me.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

*snip*



Deeply ingrained in the human condition? Humans basically start as a blank slate. You're not toxic from birth by default. Gamers and whatnot are absorbing this attitude from somewhere, and unless their family is like this the only real other place to get it from is the community and friends - who probably introduced them to the mindset.



*snip*

Maybe I worded that incorrectly. To clarify: this issue is one that is prevalent in every layer of society. Pinning this on just the geeks, gamers or any particular group for that matter does not do the widespread nature of the issue justice.

 

[Shredderi]

Yeah I think there's always at least a few of these cases whenever there's a large number of people in one place. The good old drunk excuse eh?

Edit: And yeah you can't explain this away by blaming gaming culture. This happens in every large community. Unfortunately the problem is not that easy to pin down and solve. There are majos assholes in every corner of the world in every community.

 

[JonathanPower]

What an asshole.

Being drunk is no excuse, not if it happens once and especially not if it happens TWICE.

He surely wanted some of that juice. But honestly, I also blame them for letting a drunk stranger sleeping in the same room with them. This goes beyond stupidity.

On a different note; did her BF sleep through all of this??

In all of this, her BF sounds like the most retarded person ever.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Wait, limit alcohol? Only a certain number of people in a room? TOs can't lord over what happens off site. I don't even know if they could legally enforce any of that, much less the logistics of trying to get enough people to check each and every room (of which, there are thousands of people).

A better solution would be to up security at events when possible, enforce bans, and dole out hard punishments for people who do shitty things like that to deter the scummier people of the community.

See, that's why it's important to contextualize all this. Otherwise, you end up vying for the wrong shit.

 

[Tumle]

Well, I am.
I'm sorry but if you molest somene you're a terrible person.

Yes he is... But there is no reason that he should be for the rest of his life. if he gets help, he can hopefully change his ways.. This is only one side of a person.. It's an ugly side, but it should be a side of him He can get rid off.. Hopefully.

He should definitely be banned from all tournaments in the future.. And be procicuted.. But he also needs help with his problem so it doesn't happen again..

 

[dity]

You're trying to claim that geeks are likely sexually assault people due to them being socially awkward or sexually deprived so I would say that requires data.

The TOs and community can't control what people drink or where they sleep on their own time.


Which why people are saying its a problem with society.

I can't find data on that because there's likely not been a study on it. I can only speak from my experience at conventions. But it's not hard to find personal accounts of convention creepers.

And, at least when it comes to conventions, typically you can get deals for rooms with the convention ticket and the convention works in junction with whatever hotel it is. And you can at least make sure someone who comes to the hotel drunks goes to their own room.

And well, the geek community isn't society as a whole. The fact that people can even absorb that attitude from the community is bad. That's worse than "a couple of bad eggs/apples in the bunch".

 

[koji kabuto]

I do understand that people do crazy shit when they are drunk and they don't even remember it.
But i will NEVER accept this as an excuse, how about you stay away from people when are planning to drink? and better DON'T DRINK because it's clear that you are not responsible person and can't be trusted around alcohol.

 

[dity]

Im sorry are you saying I should do something

I am trying to do something by trying to explain that scapegoating the geek culture as being a problem(or in this case, the fighting game culture) is short-sighted.

See, I used descriptive text to hopefully paint a picture you could visualize to understand the bigger picture at play here, and why scapegoating one subset of humanity doesnt work. Not so you can try to poetically match me.

I don't see you doing anything, no. How can these problems be addressed at conventions and tournaments? Going for the long haul and only targeting the root of the problem just ignores current problems. You can do both at the same time.

Maybe I worded that incorrectly. To clarify: this issue is one that is prevalent in every layer of society. Pinning this on just the geeks, gamers or any particular group for that matter does not do the widespread nature of the issue justice.

You're acting like I think this problem with the geek gaming anime whatever community is the root cause of all this. I'm not "pinning this on just the geeks", I'm saying it's happening within the community and can be and should be stomped out.

Wait, limit alcohol? Only a certain number of people in a room? TOs can't lord over what happens off site. I don't even know if they could legally enforce any of that, much less the logistics of trying to get enough people to check each and every room (of which, there are thousands of people).

A better solution would be to up security at events when possible, enforce bans, and dole out hard punishments for people who do shitty things like that to deter the scummier people of the community.

See, that's why it's important to contextualize all this. Otherwise, you end up vying for the wrong shit.

That's all good stuff. Up security, enforce bans, dole out hard punishments, let those things be known and have their presence clearly known at these events.

 

[Clefargle]

Damn, that's terrible. Vikkikitty was one of my favorite new commentators I saw from a recent regional. I hate that Hyuga did this to her. And it's also shitty because I enjoyed watching him play. What a fucked up thing to do, repeatedly. Alcohol doesn't shift any of the blame ever.

 

[Blackquill]

Good thing that most of all noticeable smashers reacted appropriately at this.

I'm disappointed a lot by Hyuga, seemed like a good guy on stream :/. Hope Vicky recovers from this

 

[fabricated backlash]

His life in the internets is over. Good.

But will that be enough for the Internet?

 

[dity]

So is there police involvement or no?

AFAIK the incident has been reported to the police, but I don't think it has been escalated or anything past that yet. Which sucks.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

"But if u call the police or something i never can entry to the USA to play :c"

Good to see what he's truly concerned about.

I read that as "Please don't make me suffer any consequences for what I did to you".

If somebody drunkenly molests someone, not being able to play at videogame tournaments should be the LEAST of their concerns. Remorse for what you did to the victim, fear of going to jail, and having your whole future ruined should be far higher on that list.

He's not only a scumbag, he's a fucking idiot too.

 

[JonathanPower]

I don't see you doing anything, no. How can these problems be addressed at conventions and tournaments? Going for the long haul and only targeting the root of the problem just ignores current problems. You can do both at the same time.

How about teaching people that inviting a drunk stranger sleeping in your room isn't exactly the most clever thing to do. Especially for a girl with a retarded BF that would gladly sleep through all of this.

 

[TheSpoiler]

By the way, this is how hotel packages work with conventions and TOs, for the most part:

TO or convention reaches out to hotel to make a package deal. Hotels are usually loving this because they have need dates they want to fill, and conventions are big money makers for many hotels.

So the hotel makes a package and the TOs generally promote that.

But that's the extent of the TOs power. TOs have no jurisdiction past their assigned area. The guests are still on the property of the hotel. Furthermore, the fallout, from a legal standpoint to just a PR nightmare, of having someone go room to room to do checks on guests would never be allowed. TOs can do that of their own volition, but if a guest feels like their rights are being infringed, the hotel will side with them provided they aren't doing anything ridiculous.

Furthermore, stopping people from coming in the convention on how drunk they appear to be (because, let's face it, unless you have a breath test handy, you aren't going to know for many people), would not only be just as bad as the above, but would take many hours of manpower. Plus, hotels probably won't like the fact that you are taking another stream of revenue from them.

The solution lies in the convention's society and society in general. But you gotta be careful of what you do.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Glad the dude just admitted it instead of just dragging this out.

Surely some kind of criminal charges can be leveled against him now?

 

[cantona222]

Because of alcohol.

 

[Sandfox]

I can't find data on that because there's likely not been a study on it. I can only speak from my experience at conventions. But it's not hard to find personal accounts of convention creepers.

And, at least when it comes to conventions, typically you can get deals for rooms with the convention ticket and the convention works in junction with whatever hotel it is. And you can at least make sure someone who comes to the hotel drunks goes to their own room.

And well, the geek community isn't society as a whole. The fact that people can even absorb that attitude from the community is bad. That's worse than "a couple of bad eggs/apples in the bunch".

Nobody is denying that those kind of people exist, but you can't just make those kind of claims to help your argument based on anecdotal evidence and assumptions from what you view as the stereotypical geek.

Evo had 12k unique entrants staying at multiple hotels and even at smaller events it would be impossible to regulate that kind of stuff.

I also don't see the point in trying to analyze where people pick up that kind of attitude because there's obviously no way to know.

 

[SomTervo]

So bloody what? This is happening in geek culture. This stuff happens at conventions and tournaments every year and no one even thinks about it until it happens. Then people within the community defend it.

Category: People do things like this everywhere.
Sub-Category: It happens in geek culture often.

Maybe make the events alcohol-free. Maybe enforce limits to how many people can be in a room. Do something. Don't just deflect it onto a societal issue.

Perfectly said.

Stating that it's a problem in geek culture doesn't imply that it isn't a problem anywhere else.

I don't think banning drink would help. I think posters/infographics saying "report any mistreatment", "misogyny will not be tolerated", "treat each other with respect", etc, would be a much better way of handling it. These people are all/should all be adults.

 

[Zelias]

Shitty behaviour, and alcohol is a shitty excuse. Ban him and level criminal charges if necessary.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

It's weird her BF didn't do anything when she was yelling. Was the dude just sleeping through everything? Her telling the guy to cut it out? Her switching beds? Etc??

Anyway, hope this guy gets what's coming to him and is banned from tournaments or whatever.

 

[SmokedMeat]

"I was drunk" is such a tired excuse. Fuck him, and any other loser that behaves in that fashion.

 

[dity]

By the way, this is how hotel packages work with conventions and TOs, for the most part:

TO or convention reaches out to hotel to make a package deal. Hotels are usually loving this because they have need dates they want to fill, and conventions are big money makers for many hotels.

So the hotel makes a package and the TOs generally promote that.

But that's the extent of the TOs power. TOs have no jurisdiction past their assigned area. The guests are still on the property of the hotel. Furthermore, the fallout, from a legal standpoint to just a PR nightmare, of having someone go room to room to do checks on guests would never be allowed. TOs can do that of their own volition, but if a guest feels like their rights are being infringed, the hotel will side with them provided they aren't doing anything ridiculous.

Furthermore, stopping people from coming in the convention on how drunk they appear to be (because, let's face it, unless you have a breath test handy, you aren't going to know for many people), would not only be just as bad as the above, but would take many hours of manpower. Plus, hotels probably won't like the fact that you are taking another stream of revenue from them.

That probably explains the problem of overstuffed rooms at convention hotels and whatnot. And rooms being trashed during events like Katsucon. No control.

As for stopping people who are drunk from coming in, conventions already to weapon checks and confiscate items from cosplayers deemed dangerous. Not sure why introducing a breath tester for suspicious individuals would be any harder.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Yikes.

Thought maybe the thread title was clickbait, but...yikes.

 

[Dusk Golem]

Four things. Firstly, my condolences go out to the victim, Vicky. I hope she is doing fine and able to move on strongly from this. I commend her for being able to speak publicly about it, and hope her and her boyfriend are working through this okay.

Second, I hate how common this has been at cons recently, but I'm happy a lot more have bee reporting these assaults and leading to greater awareness (I'm sure it's less that these incidents have been happening more and just they're being reported much better these days). It will hopefully help to try and inform and make people safer around the few people who will try scumbag moves. I am happy that places have been taking steps to protect people attending and inform people, and that everyone acted appropriately to the incident rather than shoving it under the carpet, and he got the appropriate repercussion from the community. A community is important, and when people assault and violate others, being drunk or anything is not an excuse. It is a disgusting action you decided to take, and you are full-on responsible for your actions. But I think everyone acted well... Though I wonder if the police won't get involved in this?

But on this, thirdly, this is not a gaming exclusive thing. It can happen anywhere, as it just involves people who are messed up in this level. I'm a guy, but I was molested once in my life. I was with my family going to a book store, I was carrying the books and was just walking out of the store on a public street when suddenly this hobo (who I assume was drunk) just came up to me and started rubbing his chest against mine and reached his hands into my pants. I very much do remember my reaction and response to that moment, sort of shellshocked and not really feeling it was real, and no one around me really did anything before my dad did, but I recall my strongest feeling being how low I was thinking of him that he'd have to stoop to this, I almost completely separated myself from my situation. I bring this up to both say that when caught off-guard as usually happens in these situations, it's easy to get in a kind of state of shocked, and it can technically happen anywhere where people are involved. I think it's good to inform in the culture, don't get me wrong, and to work on it within the community to take action against those that commit it and give the help needed to victims, and I think that's great. But I don't say it as a 'defense', but I also pin that this sort of behavoir is not born and raised because of 'geek culture'. Not an excuse to not push forward with improvements inside the 'culture' and events as well, but just to raise better awareness, and it's actually an extremely good thing we're beginning to report and respond to it a lot more in these events.

Fourth, a few are saying the boyfriend is dumb, but I don't really think this is a blame game. He and the other roommates just let someone in as a good notion, and Hyuga completely betrayed that sort of trust. He was passed out drunk from the parties and only came to when he did wake up, it's unfortunate but this isn't a 'blame' game and this is all stuff in retrospective.

It's weird her BF didn't do anything when she was yelling. Was the dude just sleeping through everything? Her telling the guy to cut it out? Her switching beds? Etc??

Anyway, hope this guy gets what's coming to him and is banned from tournaments or whatever.

He was passed out drunk as you can read a couple pages ago, and only learned what happened when he woke up, obviously infuriated.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

As for stopping people who are drunk from coming in, conventions already to weapon checks and confiscate items from cosplayers deemed dangerous. Not sure why introducing a breath tester for suspicious individuals would be any harder.

Because being drunk doesn't mean you pose a danger to people. They're in no way comparable

 

[Daft Punk]

How about teaching people that inviting a drunk stranger sleeping in your room isn't exactly the most clever thing to do. Especially for a girl with a retarded BF that would gladly sleep through all of this.

Spoken like someone that has never drank and went to sleep. You can easily miss stuff.

 

[SomTervo]

It's weird her BF didn't do anything when she was yelling. Was the dude just sleeping through everything? Her telling the guy to cut it out? Her switching beds? Etc??

Anyway, hope this guy gets what's coming to him and is banned from tournaments or whatever.

I think it says others in the room intervened and put him back to bed before he tried it again - that may or may not include her BF.

Perhaps the BF was catatonically drunk. We don't know the details. He's not to blame, either way.

 

[SolidChamp]

Wtf is going on, does EVO attract perverts or something?

I've always been curious about the behavior on display at EVO. It seems to range from petty and douchey to downright scummy.

It's unfortunate there seem to be so many scumbags giving the good people in EVO a bad name.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Yikes.

Thought maybe the thread title was clickbait, but...yikes.

how in gods name would the title be clickbait. fucking hell.

 

[SomTervo]

How about teaching people that inviting a drunk stranger sleeping in your room isn't exactly the most clever thing to do. Especially for a girl with a retarded BF that would gladly sleep through all of this.

So it's her fault for not being careful enough, basically? You're blaming her for this? Rather than "teaching people not to sexually assault" it's "teach people to avoid sexual assault"?

While it's clear that there were others in the room, too?

Why would one immediately assume it's not a safe space being with your BF in bed and with a handful of people sleeping on the floor?

What the fuck kind of post is this.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I think it says others in the room intervened and put him back to bed before he tried it again - that may or may not include her BF.

Perhaps the BF was catatonically drunk. We don't know the details. He's not to blame, either way.

I'm not blaming the BF. No one is to blame except for the Hyuga guy, I was just wondering

 

[dity]

Nobody is denying that those kind of people exist, but you can't just make those kind of claims to help your argument based on anecdotal evidence and assumptions from what you view as the stereotypical geek.

Evo had 12k unique entrants staying at multiple hotels and even at smaller events it would be impossible to regulate that kind of stuff.

I also don't see the point in trying to analyze where people pick up that kind of attitude because there's obviously no way to know.

That part wasn't really the crux of my argument, but that's ok. I get where you're coming from there. My bad.

As for impossibilities. All those people gotta get in and out of the convention. I dunno, maybe have staff from the conventions staying at popular hotels as support or something.

And I think it's something worth analysing. You can claim "society!" but there's people within that society that influence others. Just the fact that people are comfortable enough within the community to think they can just slip in a bed while drunk and molest someone and beg for the victim to not call the police due to "my smash bros!" is like... Ugh. I just wonder how many people do the same thing and the victim caves.

 

[Trup1aya]

Simply pointing at society and toxic masulinity as a whole is also not a solution or data either.

What data do I need? The fact that it even happens is disgusting. There's no threshold of acceptability. No "only 3 people have done it this year and been publicly report, that's ok I guess".

And I have suggested solutions. Limit alcohol, or just not allow it. Be more restrictive on how many people can be in a room. Maybe not hold late night panels focused on perverse content at supposedly all-ages conventions so as to not attract people who might be gross.

The alcohol isn't the problem, nor was it the number of people in the room, nor was it the late night panels. Blame the bad person who did the despicable thing.

Smh if you think those 'perverse panels' are what 'attract gross' people. As if a sexual predator needs to be lured by anything more than the desire to prey.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

And I have suggested solutions. Limit alcohol, or just not allow it. Be more restrictive on how many people can be in a room. Maybe not hold late night panels focused on perverse content at supposedly all-ages conventions so as to not attract people who might be gross.

How is any of this relevant when we're talking about what people are choosing to do in their hotel rooms after-hours?

 

[finalflame]

how in gods name would the title be clickbait. fucking hell.

By misrepresenting what happened. But nope, not the case at all.

This is fucked. Dude needs to be locked up so he can't put his hands on anyone ever again.

 

[dity]

Because being drunk doesn't mean you pose a danger to people. They're in no way comparable

Then explain things like alcohol-free zones in cities and alcohol-free public events.

 

[Greddleok]

Rather than "teaching people not to sexually assault" it's "teach people to avoid sexual assault"?

Both are necessary. As long as there are still people who do such things, one should be cautious. Just like how I wear a reflective vest and a helmet when I'm cycling, or if someone knocks on the door after 10pm I put the chain on before opening the door.

Getting assaulted/robbed/run over isn't the victims fault, but everyone should be aware these things can happen, and it's best to do what you can to avoid placing yourself in a situation where it makes it easier.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Then explain things like alcohol-free zones in cities and alcohol-free public events.

I'm not saying events with alcohol don't have a higher chance of having people get too rambunctious or out of control, I'm saying that having events be sober is for different reasons that barring weapons

 

[kromeo]

I do understand that people do crazy shit when they are drunk and they don't even remember it.
But i will NEVER accept this as an excuse, how about you stay away from people when are planning to drink? and better DON'T DRINK because it's clear that you are not responsible person and can't be trusted around alcohol.

I've been drunk to the point of not knowing where I am or what I'm doing hundreds of times but I don't abuse people or get violent. The people that do likely have it in them to start with, the alcohol just amplifies it