Support NeoGAF

[StueyDuck]

XVI is not growing up. Its going sideways from the bottom it was.

That's why I said that XVI should have been a new IP - It has nothing to do with FF, and would make everyone happy.

What Square needs to grow up from is this insistant need to chase trends, and go back to creating them. Look back to FF VI - X to see what made them great, and start from there, so that FF can be reborn again, and once again be taken seriously as it once was.

I mean aside from the gameplay structure (turn based and open world etc), XVI is exactly what final fantasy should be if you play 1 - 5.

6 onwards it became far more anime and Sci-fi. Nothing wrong with it, it was fantastic but to say high fantasy isn't final fantasy isn't quite correct

 

[Whitecrow]

Would anyone here recommend FF VII remake while waiting for this? never played the original. Unfinished plot worth a play or no?

I would not recommend.
Part 1 is mostly useless filler, and besides a couple of episodes, it has no magic whatsoever.

And Ever Crisis being as it is, may be closer to the original experience.

Unpopular opinion and all that. But as a first playthrough, I honestly think the remake is shit compared to og ff7.

 

[Nautilus]

I mean aside from the gameplay structure , turn based and open world etc, XVI is exactly what final fantasy should be if you play 1 - 5.

6 onwards it became far more anime and Sci-fi. Nothing wrong with it, it was fantastic but to say high fantasy isn't final fantasy isn't quite correct

You mean, if you ignore everything that makes an FF game, an FF game, it plays like 1 - 5? lol

Sorry if it seemed harsh, but just too tired(For the day!) to continue this discussion.

 

[StueyDuck]

You mean, if you ignore everything that makes an FF game, an FF game, it plays like 1 - 5? lol

Sorry if it seemed harsh, but just too tired(For the day!) to continue this discussion.

I mean if you were talking only gameplay then you did a pretty shit job at writing that down in text especially since they all play differently and have unique battle/class systems

 

[Schmendrick]

This game deserves better hardware.
The 30fps mode is headache inducing and the 60fps mode suffers from severe frametime issues, at least in this demo.
Also it looks very good but far from the next-gen hyperbole I've read around here, way too uneven to come close to that category.

 

[Danjin44]

but just too tired(For the day!) to continue this discussion.

Then accept this game is not for you and move on......very simple.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Yeah those dialogues were ridiculous but I guess I took them for granted back then and there wasn't VA yet. I was also younger, when FFVIII came out I was 18. And I loved the shit out of it and still do as I beat the Remaster 100%.

But for new games I don't need to see these dialogues and I felt they got worse over time. The translation is better nowadays but in XIII characters ramble on and on about nothing. I mean it was like this is a fal cie, we are l'cie and omg there are cie'th. You see, if you don't complete your focus the fal cie will make us cie'th because we are l'cie. I didn't give a shit about anything in this game. After XII, which did so much right in terms of dialogue, writing, world building and characters, XIII is probably the most retarded follow up ever made. XII perhaps sold a bit less because it was released on PS2 when the next generation was in full swing, but they should've built upon it. Not throw it all away and come up with a super linear dumbass game with practically no world building and characters on suicide watch. I platted XIII mind you, and its one of the most hollow experiences I ever had. I just wanted to find something in there, since it was the next numbered FF. But the entire game was tubes, no exploration, no interaction, no side activities (bar hunts all funneled towards the last quarter along with the retarded upgrade and crafting system). Often compared to FFX, but FFX had towns, it had interactivity, it had stuff to do like Blitzball and you could talk to NPC and you could find hidden zones. On top of a Monster Arena with tons of unique and challenging fights.

VII R Sephiroth suffers the same problem as FFXIII, he's rambling nonsense throughout the entirety of the game (and its just the first chapter) while in the original he mostly spoke in the flashbacks and it was kinda easy to follow despite the horrible translation. XV is also guilty of this nonsense, but a lot of it has clearly been axed as the game is unfinished as hell. Perhaps for the good.

I consider XIII the dark days of FF. And while I don't like the direction FFVII R goes into, it at least has the original game as the baseline so there is some good in there and honestly a LOT of it capitalizes on nostalgia. I initially just liked walking into the wall market in 3D, seeing those same areas with todays technology.

There was actually a point where I considered XII the dark days of FF, initially I didn't enjoy it and granted, the vanilla release wasn't perfect. But the game grew on me and especially the Zodiac version is my favourite FF of all time.

 

[Skifi28]

Yeah I was searching for the setting to disable the blur.

Maybe it's ust a demo thing, but I have a feeling the Japanese will Japanese when it comes to options so I wouldn't hold my breath for the full release.

 

[Nvzman]

I have to finish the demo but this game was giving me really heavy PS2-era gaming vibes. Which is fantastic!!!!! Felt so different and unique from the rest of the pack. Can't wait to play more of it.

 

[FloopCookiefix]

I played the demo, and some of the Eikon Challenge stuff.

I'm... mixed. Enjoyed it, but still mixed

The combat itself was fun and high energy, and I'm absolutely here for the particle FX and stylish animations- really pretty and appealing. I was also blown away by the sheer spectacle of the full titan battle. The music also had some standout pieces.

....But honestly, I felt the beginning of this game drags, gameplay wise.
I know it's just the intro of the game, but even considering that aspect... The entire opening battle where you hold triangle for two minutes? The following war battle scene where you... run forward, and occasionally to the left and right? ....why were those the very first gameplay impressions? (I can forgive the former for wanting spectacle quota at least)

The segue into having a flashback training session didn't make much sense to me, but then was questionably followed up by... way more cutscenes?
Kwha?
Not to mention the number of "Hold X to open door/knock down gate" prompts... if there were this many in the *intro*, how many are going to be in the full game...? Those weren't fun in FFVII Remake, and they still ain't fun here.

And I say all this as someone who enjoys Yakuza and Judgment (haven't gotten into Lost Judgment yet though). Again, I think the combat and presentation is great (especially with what was unlocked for the Eikon Challenge) but I hope the rest of the game surrounding that is heightened to that level in the full game.

--------

Now, this is more subjective/personal thoughts here, but... I'm just not really a fan of the M-rated, more "realistic" approach (which I guess means more blood/gore, and people now drop F-bombs).
This, combined with the honestly drab castle setting and bland opening areas just made it feel like any other game, and it personally isn't appealing to me yet (**apart** from the aforementioned wild spectacle).

That said, I do think they hit the ending note pretty strong.
I feel like it was definitely been inspired by a particularly iconic anime scene, hah

 

[Thirty7ven]

Really?

i usually play every single japanese game with japanese va but i opted for the english one to have that got feeling and the va is great, does it really sound that better in jap?

Fun fact, using the term "jap" is enough to get a warning on reeee

The English va didn’t quite feel right to me, in terms of casting, so I changed it to Japanese va and everything clicked. It really changes the delivery of the characters and brings a cohesion between the art direction, cutscene direction, action direction, and character design that wasn’t really happening in the english version. You can try it and see it for yourself.

The game was written in Japanese by Japanese writers, then for the VA it was translated in English and lip synched for it, then translated back to Japanese so that the dialog delivery matched the lip synch. And it seems to have delivered an English version that people really appreciate, but the Japanese version still feels like the one that is more truer to the original vision.

 

[Danjin44]

The English va didn’t quite feel right to me, in terms of casting, so I changed it to Japanese va and everything clicked. It really changes the delivery of the characters and brings a cohesion between the art direction, cutscene direction, action direction, and character design that wasn’t really happening in the english version. You can try it and see it for yourself.

The game was written in Japanese by Japanese writers, then for the VA it was translated in English and lip synched for it, then translated back to Japanese so that the dialog delivery matched the lip synch. And it seems to have delivered an English version that people really appreciate, but the Japanese version still feels like the one that is more truer to the original vision.

For me same way I play games like 13 Sentinels and Persona in Japanese voice because those games takes place in Japan and with FFXVI’s setting it feels wrong to play in Japanese.

 

[Whitecrow]

Played first in english. Then in japan.

Japan all the way.

 

[rofif]

I only today played the additional mode. it's just more of the demo lol. How long is this demo!
So, I've beat her and it was an incredible fight. What a spectacle.
I was playing with the 2 rings this mode equips you with, so the auto dog and ring of timely focus. I've finished base demo without this, so why not try it if it's auto equipped in this mode.

And I found that it's actually super fun while still giving me a bit of a sweat. And on the positive side, it looks very spectacular with all the slowdowns.

parrying with the titan shield is very satysfing with this ring.
Can you actually parry without titan shield? Base demo said something that you can parry just by attacking but I never managed to get it.

 

[Nautilus]

I mean if you were talking only gameplay then you did a pretty shit job at writing that down in text especially since they all play differently and have unique battle/class systems

You mean all the vast different battle systems that all are turn based?

 

[Nautilus]

Then accept this game is not for you and move on......very simple.

Oh, never denied this game wasn't for me, even if I think its good.

Its just a fact that this is a new IP with a FF logo attached to it. I'm just tired of having to argue that with people that want FF to be something that its not, that's all.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

First things first... is this the first FF game you are playing? If so, then ignore everything that follows.

....But honestly, I felt the beginning of this game drags, gameplay wise.
I know it's just the intro of the game, but even considering that aspect... The entire opening battle where you hold triangle for two minutes? The following war battle scene where you... run forward, and occasionally to the left and right? ....why were those the very first gameplay impressions? (I can forgive the former for wanting spectacle quota at least)

If this was FF7-13... everything above would have just been one long CGI cutscene. Now, even if limited, you get to pay that in real-time. Its a FF game, there will be lots of story and cinematic shit. This s why I asked if this is the first FF game you have played. But if it isn't.. then I really don't know what you were expecting.

The segue into the flashback training session didn't make sense either, and was followed up by... more cutscenes.
Kwha?

That segue is a key story bit... which also passes for the combat tutorial. And the cutscenes thing again... its an RPG... I really think people forget what the very cutscenes we complain about now used to be... they were still there... we just spent time reading text instead.

Not to mention the number of "Hold X to open door/knock down gate" prompts... if there were this many *here*, how many are going to be im the full game... those weren't fun in FFVII Remake, and they still ain't fun here.

Can you tell me a FF game that there was no a hold or press x to open this or that prompt....ever? Or even better... any RP period. Just seems like an odd thing to complain about. like the kinda stuff people complain about for complaining sake.

Usually, I don't single out what people complain about...but there has been a ot of weird complaints when it comes to this game... especially coming from people who have supposedly played a FF game before.

 

[Thirty7ven]

For me same way I play games like 13 Sentinels and Persona in Japanese voice because those games takes place in Japan and with FFXVI’s setting it feels wrong to play in Japanese.

Does Berserk feel wrong in Japanese? Don’t see why. Attack on Titan?

The game setting might be western fantasy inspired, but everything screams anime.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I only today played the additional mode. it's just more of the demo lol. How long is this demo!
So, I've beat her and it was an incredible fight. What a spectacle.
I was playing with the 2 rings this mode equips you with, so the auto dog and ring of timely focus. I've finished base demo without this, so why not try it if it's auto equipped in this mode.

And I found that it's actually super fun while still giving me a bit of a sweat. And on the positive side, it looks very spectacular with all the slowdowns.

parrying with the titan shield is very satysfing with this ring.
Can you actually parry without titan shield? Base demo said something that you can parry just by attacking but I never managed to get it.

I always knew you were a wuss...

 

[Balducci30]

Are you guys using these rings? I feel like they make it really oversimplified combat wise

 

[Sleepwalker]

I can't do japanese voices on any game, specially not anime ones haha (not like this but jrpgs in general) but I'm glad to know that it has good VA in both languages

 

[Guilty_AI]

I feel like it was definitely been inspired by a particularly iconic anime scene, hah

Now that you mentioned it... wuss MC screaming "stop!" and everything.

And instead of daddy issues, we've got mommy issues.

 

[Danjin44]

Does Berserk feel wrong in Japanese? Don’t see why. Attack on Titan?

The game setting might be western fantasy inspired, but everything screams anime.

Well they are exceptions, if the english voice acting is not good enough then I play with Japanese voices I mean I watch Vinland Saga in Japanese voice. There also cases that I like english voice more than Japanese voice in shows like Death Note, Mushi-shi, Full Metal Alchemist and Cowboy Bebop.

 

[Aenima]

parrying with the titan shield is very satysfing with this ring.
Can you actually parry without titan shield? Base demo said something that you can parry just by attacking but I never managed to get it.

Yes, i parried a few times with the sword, kinda like lucky cuz the parry window is kinda small, I think if you attack with the Phoenix attack instead of Titan, you can parry magic attacks. The dev did that in that challange battle against Atlas. Combat system is insane when you master it, theres so much stuff you can do.

 

[Fake]

Japan this year is on fire.

 

[FloopCookiefix]

That segue is a key story bit... which also passes for the combat tutorial. And the cutscenes thing again... its an RPG... I really think people forget what the very cutscenes we complain about now used to be... they were still there... we just spent time reading text instead.

No, I get why it's there story-wise. *Gameplay/tutorial-wise,* it didn't make much sense to me. You go from: very simple Titan Battle sample -->run around for a bit as older Clive---> run around some more as older---> flash back to young Clive for training, then also not do anymore battle for a decent while.

It's not the worst, but just thinking how it could have been handled to be a little more engaging, I would have put some combat as older Clive in that brief section. It just seemed weird to me, pacing-wise.

Can you tell me a FF game that there was o a hod or press x to open this or that prompt....ever? Or even better... any RP period. Just seems like an odd thing to complain about.

I just find it to be not that fun? Like... anywhere, FF or not, hah. I bring it up specifically here, because in that swamp area, it occurs I *believe* 3 or 4 times in relatively quick succession. It was something that took me out of the game, because I directly started thinking about it at that point.

In my replays of FFVII Remake, those moments were inconvenient there too even if short, so I used that as another franchise game for comparison.

Usually, I don't single out what people complain about...but there has been a ot of weird complaints when it comes to this game... especially coming from people who have supposedly played a FF game before

Please don't get me wrong. I'm looking forward to this game, and hope it's great. These are just honest thoughts I had when playing- I'm not looking to be nitpicky about this one in particularly, and if these issues showed up in a different game, I'd bring them up there too

 

[March Climber]

Bigger youtubers are starting to upload their reactions, commentary, and compliments towards the demo. As an example, MoistCritikal just named his video 'Best Demo I've ever played' and his videos get views in the millions.

I think Square Enix has nothing to worry about, sales-wise. This is an example of leading with their best foot forward.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

XVI is not growing up. Its going sideways from the bottom it was.

That's why I said that XVI should have been a new IP - It has nothing to do with FF, and would make everyone happy.

What Square needs to grow up from is this insistant need to chase trends, and go back to creating them. Look back to FF VI - X to see what made them great, and start from there, so that FF can be reborn again, and once again be taken seriously as it once was.

Man, you're about to be salty as hell when this is called one of the if not the best Final Fantasy ever by a lot of people. It really is that good. The demo is better than 90% of the games that have been released in the last few years. Full games.


For those who actually want to dig into the combat.

Guide on how to get into more fuckery.

 

[rofif]

Bigger youtubers are starting to upload their reactions, commentary, and compliments towards the demo. As an example, MoistCritikal just named his video 'Best Demo I've ever played' and his videos get views in the millions.

I think Square Enix has nothing to worry about, sales-wise. This is an example of leading with their best foot forward.

I invited my father over as is tradition with good games.
And he was amazed by it too. The graphics and cinematography really grab him. He said he would easily watch whole movies like this

 

[Lokaum D+]

Oh, never denied this game wasn't for me, even if I think its good.

Its just a fact that this is a new IP with a FF logo attached to it. I'm just tired of having to argue that with people that want FF to be something that its not, that's all.

Dude, stop it, the FF brand is not tailored to only your taste, get your shit together, what are u talking about what a FF game should be is just trash talk, ur are not the creator of the series, ur are not a creative mind behind a game, u are a nobody who thinks he knows what's best for the franchise, just the ppl behind the series know what is best to the Final Fantasy brand, chill your ass and grow da f up, now go play DQ11 while u can, cause 12 ll be an action RPG,

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

No, I get why it's there story-wise. *Gameplay/tutorial-wise,* it didn't make much sense to me. You go from: very simple Titan Battle sample -->run around for a bit as older Clive---> run around some more as older---> flash back to young Clive for training, then also not do anymore battle for a decent while.

It's not the worst, but just thinking how it could have been handled to be a little more engaging, I would have put some combat as older Clive in that brief section. It just seemed weird to me, pacing-wise.

I just find it to be not that fun? Like... anywhere, FF or not, hah. I bring it up specifically here, because in that swamp area, it occurs I *believe* 3 or 4 times in relatively quick succession. It was something that took me out of the game, because I directly started thinking about it at that point.

In my replays of FFVII Remake, those moments were inconvenient there too even if short, so I used that as another franchise game for comparison.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm looking forward to this game, and hope it's great. These are just honest thoughts I had when playing- I'm not looking to be nitpicky about this one in particularly, and if these issues showed up in a different game, I'd bring them up there too

Fair enough.. nothing against you. Just had some range people in this thread lol.

I get what you mean about the whole first part shutting between eikon batte, right platforming and then child Clive... to me that was just a tutorial... and story advancement.

I also get what you say about the prompt gatekeeping... unfortunately, its a mechanic used in most games. Gues another way could have been to just make you break it with a couple of attacks.

 

[Dynasty8]

This is the first time in a long time where I can't wait to see what happens next in a game. Pre-ordered and can't wait. Loved everything except the difficulty. I really, really, REALLY wish they gave us the option to play on hard mode from the getgo. First time impressions are important...I don't want it to be a cakewalk and have to wait until I beat the game first....

For those saying "this is just the demo, of course it's going to be easy...", Take a look at some of the more recent JRPGs coming out like Octopath traveler 2 compared to part 1, no no Kuni 2 compared to part 1 and the most recent dragon quest compared to the previous ones. The sequels have been a cakewalk compared to their predecessors...and only after a year or two did some of these games get a harder mode added on after multiple complaints.

 

[Poppyseed]

Love what I played of the demo but you have a choice between 30fps which today feels absolutely awful, messes up combat timing etc, or a 60fps that runs far below much of time, resulting in really, really bad frame drops and persistent stuttering, really obvious in the castle scenes. VRR might have smoothed this out to some degree, but I don't see any VRR in this game.

Ugh, wish this game was on PC.

 

[Nautilus]

Man, you're about to be salty as hell when this is called one of the if not the best Final Fantasy ever by a lot of people. It really is that good. The demo is better than 90% of the games that have been released in the last few years. Full games.


For those who actually want to dig into the combat.

Guide on how to get into more fuckery.

I won't be salty. I will be sad, simple as that. This is seemingly a very good game, just it isn't a FF game at all.

And even if justified or not(or even if it that matters or not), this game selling ACTUALLY well will basically seal the fate, at least for the next few entries, that for me and the fanbase the last FF game that Square release was FF X.

I don't see it reviewing as well as you all think it will be, and whatever sales it gains in the west will be offset by a sharp decline in Asia, but whatever happens, happens. It just is what it is.

 

[Danjin44]

I won't be salty. I will be sad, simple as that. This is seemingly a very good game, just it isn't a FF game at all.

Mostly for you, to me and most other this is absolulty FF.

 

[Nautilus]

Dude, stop it, the FF brand is not tailored to only your taste, get your shit together, what are u talking about what a FF game should be is just trash talk, ur are not the creator of the series, ur are not a creative mind behind a game, u are a nobody who thinks he knows what's best for the franchise, just the ppl behind the series know what is best to the Final Fantasy brand, chill your ass and grow da f up, now go play DQ11 while u can, cause 12 ll be an action RPG,

My my, seems like I hit a nerve. Its ok to like this game, my friend. Just doesn't change the fact that XVI is FF only in its name.

FF should not be tailored to any trend that comes and goes.FF should be tailored to what FF is, and build on it.Which is not XVI. It's as simple as that.

 

[rofif]

Is everyone else with 10 years of souls games, keep pressinc "O" to dodge. Holy shit the muscle memory

 

[Madflavor]

Is everyone else with 10 years of souls games, keep pressinc "O" to dodge. Holy shit the muscle memory

Yeah it fucked me up quite a few times in the demo, but I'll get used to it.

 

[Nautilus]

Mostly for you, to me and most other this is absolulty FF.

To me and the whole fanbase, yeah. But like I said, it is what it is.

And if FF is to fall, for franchises like Persona to rise, that captivates that audience, so be it. Even if I will always hold out hope that one day Square wishes to go back to FF.

Maybe FF IX remake will be that? Who knows

 

[March Climber]

Is everyone else with 10 years of souls games, keep pressinc "O" to dodge. Holy shit the muscle memory

Yeah it fucked me up quite a few times in the demo, but I'll get used to it.

Change to Type B controls.

 

[Nankatsu]

Just finished the narrative portion the demo throws at you and holy shit.

I love how dark it turned out of nowhere. I knew the game had a darker tone but damn.

Spoiler

The way things escalate so damn quick, everyone days except Clive. Holy shit. Truly a Game of Thrones moment.

Elwin decapition in front of Joshua, holy shit!

Think I'll skip the eikonic challenges. More than sold on this. One of the best demos I ever played.

 

[Danjin44]

To me and the whole fanbase, yeah. But like I said, it is what it is.

So you think you speak for whole fanbase? You do know there are people (like me) who played old FF games who also hyped for FFXVI....right?

 

[rofif]

Just finished the narrative portion the demo throws at you and holy shit.

I love how dark it turned out of nowhere. I knew the game had a darker tone but damn.

Spoiler

The way things escalate so damn quick, everyone days except Clive. Holy shit. Truly a Game of Thrones moment.

Think I'll skip the eikonic challenges. More than sold on this. One of the best demos I ever played.

For me the moment when

Spoiler: end

when Clive changes into a fire guy and his friends just VAPORIZE holy shit

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Based on the demo, this is best that FF has to offer as a series, and also very successfull with a lot of stuff out of JRPGs comfort zone, like truly action combat and the mature tone. I feel strange Dragon Age Origins vibes in this demo and it is beyond awesome.

Can't freaking wait.

 

[Danjin44]

Is everyone else with 10 years of souls games, keep pressinc "O" to dodge. Holy shit the muscle memory

 

[Nankatsu]

For me the moment when

Spoiler: end

when Clive changes into a fire guy and his friends just VAPORIZE holy shit

Spoiler

That one too. I was really liking his mentor vibe and they just "Mr. Stark I'm not feeling so well" him just like that.

 

[MISTER INVEIGLER]

Final Fantasy VII Remake is a pseudo-sequel. It's really meant for people who have played the original. If you can turn your brain off, you'll be fine - but a lot of the story beats won't hit right, and I imagine you'll be pretty confused by the end of it. Just my 2c.

If you pause to look at ATL(active time lore) every other sentence during cut scenes, you will not be confused by the end.

I know I had to pause at least 5-6 times while talking to the king during that short cut scene just so I can understand the conversation they were having.

 

[Madflavor]

My my, seems like I hit a nerve. Its ok to like this game, my friend. Just doesn't change the fact that XVI is FF only in its name.

FF should not be tailored to any trend that comes and goes.FF should be tailored to what FF is, and build on it.Which is not XVI. It's as simple as that.

Hironobu Sakaguchi was largely inspired by Dragon Quest I&II which was hugely popular in Japan, and it directly influenced his design approach when he made a game called Final Fantasy. He greatly admired and competed against the successful Jrpg series in a rivalry that lasted all the way up to FFVI. There would be no Final Fantasy without Dragon Quest. The entire franchise was birthed by it's creator following a trend.

 

[jshackles]

If you pause to look at ATL(active time lore) every other sentence during cut scenes, you will not be confused by the end.

I know I had to pause at least 5-6 times while talking to the king during that short cut scene just so I can understand the conversation they were having.

I was talking about Final Fantasy VII Remake. I agree that the ATL system in XVI is aces.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

This game deserves better hardware.
The 30fps mode is headache inducing and the 60fps mode suffers from severe frametime issues, at least in this demo.
Also it looks very good but far from the next-gen hyperbole I've read around here, way too uneven to come close to that category.

Demo version is 1.01, April State of Play version is 1.03. So we can assume the demo version is a slightly older build and perhaps the launch version is version 1.03 or 1.04.

So hopefully the launch version gets a framerate boost for performance.

John Linneman also noted on Twitter that both modes have RT enabled and that perhaps the launch version will allow you to disable this for the performance mode to hit 60fps.

I think the FFXVI team is very conscious of what people are saying on the forums and I'd expect a patch for the framerate and motion blur, assuming the above doesn't resolve it.