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First Public Comments from Hideaki Nishino & Hermen Hulst as Newly Appointed PlayStation CEOs
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- Business
Mibu no ookami
Member
What if I told you that Sony has a multitude of CEOs across their group? That there is a CEO of Sony Music Entertainment, Sony Music Publishing, and Sony Music Japan and that there is a chairman of Sony Music Group.
Whether the dual CEOs last individually, there is a pretty big possibility that the groups will remain separate, unless there is a complete disaster. They're in large part too much for one person to handle and they're both significant and distinct elements of Sony's gaming business with significant and distinct KPIs.
Both answer to Totoki who remains Chairman of SIE. For Herman Hulst there isn't much advantage for his group being tied to PlayStation. For him to make the most money possible, they'd develop games for all platforms. Totoki obviously isn't going to allow that as it would significantly hamper Nishino and his group. That is where the balance has to come from, but if the studio group becomes more profitable than the platform business group, the priority shifts.
Nishino isn't the money guy, he is the platform guy. PlayStation as a platform is distinct from game development and IP creation. I think you've largely misinterpreted what Nishino's role is.
People feel strongly about everything and they put nostalgia glasses on the past. Astrobot was greenlit under Jim Ryan and Herman Hulst, but you'll never see them get credit for it.
Nicolas Doucet was brought in to run Japan Studio from London. He was almost certainly involved with the decision to shutdown Japan Studio but reorg as Asobi. He doesn't get credit or blame, because people aren't in the weeds enough.
Mibu no ookami
Member
There is a cognitive dissonance that denies the success Sony is having because it isn't in the manner that people want them to have success. These same people are convinced that the other shoe is going to drop that proves them right, despite all evidence suggesting otherwise.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Yeah, maybe I have. Fair enough. I just honestly don't see any reason why you would need a CEO for the platform like that. It doesn't really make much sense to me at all.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
I actually think this year is going to see a really special Sony showcase due to Playstation turning 30. That said, people overestimate these shows. Even E3's influence in people's buying habits.
No one is buying consoles based on a CGI trailer from a game releasing in 3 years. And developers won't be showing gameplay segments from games 2 or 3 years before release due to fear of online backlash due to it not looking up to the standards they expect on release date. And the same people complaining they don't know what games are coming in 2025/2026 would be the same people complaining on how bad those same games would look.
You just can't win.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I think it says a lot about the current state of PlayStation and the industry that they had to get two guys to do one job.
Neither of them is capable of the task at hand, and no one who could handle the task was available.
TBH Hulst doesn’t seem like his role is changing all too much. Why he’s even co CEO is odd.
They should’ve got Bobby Kotick. Which may still be the play if he had a non compete he has to wait out before he can join so these two are just keeping his seat warm.
Neither of them is capable of the task at hand, and no one who could handle the task was available.
TBH Hulst doesn’t seem like his role is changing all too much. Why he’s even co CEO is odd.
They should’ve got Bobby Kotick. Which may still be the play if he had a non compete he has to wait out before he can join so these two are just keeping his seat warm.
Hypereides
Gold Member
The mastermind behind Jinroh, erhh, I mean Killzone.
Look, I enjoyed Killzone 2, it visually and game-wise still holds up to this day, and the guy is a competent business man who pulled Guerrilla through some hard times. However, he does not possess the "ground breaking" creative visionary thinking to lead their creative workforce imo.
Looking back, I'm still kinda perplexed how he managed to talk SCEE into acquiring Guerrilla. The guy must have a real silver tongue.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
FOMO.
Games coming to PC later with enhanced visual effects means PC gamers, not PS gamers, get the definitive gameplay experience.
I can understand how some PS players might feel that is shit, given that they are the reason for PS's success as a platform; not the PC gamers who don't even pay for online MP.
Huh?! Guerrilla is an absurdly talented studio. Why would their acquisition be surprising to you?
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Northeastmonk
Gold Member
KillZone 2 and 3 were awesome. It was Shadow Fall that was a big 
Hypereides
Gold Member
You mean back in the PS2 era? I don't think they had a very convincing track record back then. They grew notorious due to the whole "Halo killer" sensationalism.
They have of course grown since then and definitely gotten more skilled along the way. Any studio lasting this long is a grand feat in itself.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
From 1994 until 2005, Sony really didn't have much in the way of a centralized first party development structure. They had some first party development studios that were independently managed largely under each branch of SCE, SCEI, SCEA, and SCEE.
Once Sony started investing more into first party development and putting more of a hierarchy in charge of development, not just to make great games, but to ensure release schedules that games weren't competing against each other or ensuring a diverse portfolio, SIE largely became it's own software development company, one that largely rivals any other in the industry.
But they're still a platform holder. PlayStation is still their primary product, PSN is a major product and revenue source.
Ensuring the growth of software/IP and platform/ecosystem are largely two entirely separate business endeavors, and they're recognizing that and treating it as such.
It's becoming increasingly more difficult for PlayStation to grow at odds with one another for resources and prioritization.
Everyone feels like PSVR2 should have had PC support from day 1 or that Bloodborne should have been on PC by now. These things probably could have happened if you treat these things as they need to be as successful as they can be independent of a lot of other considerations.
The studio group's focus is to sell as much software as they can and build its IP. The platform group's priority is to sell as much hardware as possible and to sell as many peripherals as possible as well as growing out PlayStation as a platform, which means investing in PC and mobile, areas that Sony really missed the boat on.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I just think it's still a bit silly to require 2 CEOs for that. You're basically talking about a whole CEO just for deciding when Nixxes ports games, which does not really require that.
I think the MS management structure is a little more logical where you have a MS Gaming head that looks at the broader landscape, mobile, PC, etc. Then you have an Xbox head. Anyway, it's not that important really. I just genuinely don't understand what the purpose of it is, even with your attempts to explain. Maybe it will become more clear over time. If they really start making even bigger moves outside of the PS platform, then I guess it would make some sense to me. Similar to the MS hierarchy, but calling it co-CEOs instead.
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hououinkyouma00
Member
I generally hate being fans of CEOs and the like, but man Kaz was awesome. He seemed like a cool guy.
That era of PlayStation had so many great public figures. Kaz, Jack Tretton, Shawn Hayden, Shu, and the guy that got in trouble for pulling out a Vita on stage at E3.
Lol what do you have against Hulst?
Mibu no ookami
Member
They're essentially two different companies with massive reach.
You have a studio head at Nixxes.
The more local you have leadership that more detail oriented and focused you can be.
Microsoft can't properly manage their software development. They've failed at everything they've tried for the last 10+ years. Their hardware sales are similarly in massive decline.
As Sony moves to release a new handheld and a PC launcher, it'll make sense why they have a platform group CEO. As they acquire more software development studios, it'll make more sense as to why they have a studio group CEO.
Individuals aren't supposed to have too many direct reports and the same is true of CEOs. You can't effectively manage limitless people without missing something and if you have conflicting priorities, it makes your decisions more difficult.
Nishino and Hulst now have separate KPIs. This will result in faster growth for SIE. Imagine Nishino's primary KPI is the increase of MAUs from 120 million in 2024 to 150 million by the end of 2030, while Hulst's KPI is to sell x number of software by the end of 2030 and to release x number of movies and tv shows by the end of the decade.
Nishino has to release the PC launcher and the PS handheld to reach those numbers and he needs to be in constant contact with the groups responsible for that as well as ensure a successful PS6 launch.
Hulst on the other hand needs to ensure things are on track with God of War and Amazon tv shows as well as the creation of new IP and the purchase of the right studios as well as growth of studios internally.
Wildly different objectives and extremely difficult for one person to be in charge of both.
Gudji
Member
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
That would make sense, yes. I do get that.
I guess. Usually you just have a head for each studio, and then someone that looks at development over all of that. MS still seems to have heads for each studio, then heads for Zenimax / Bethesda / Activision still, then Booty over that basically to just talk and coordinate releases. Booty wouldn't need to be a CEO. And then there's Bond over that.
Yeah, that's interesting. I guess you're calling the PC launcher part of Nishino's responsibilities? I figured if he's the platform guy PC would be Hulst. Guess we'll see. Doesn't really matter, just wondering.
Sure, makes sense. I understand what you're saying a bit more now. If they are branching out even further from the PS hardware alone, it makes sense.
Mibu no ookami
Member
If Booty was responsible for his own P&L do you think Xbox games would launch on GamePass? Matt Booty sucks at his job, but he's in a really difficult position. First, he has entirely too much staff to oversee. Second, Microsoft's contractor policies restrict game development. Third, they don't really have any leverage.
Hulst is games and game IP, everything else is Nishino. PSN and services fall under Nishino.
The console business has finite growth and Sony is looking beyond to a post-console future. The platform group has to slowly but surely position itself and its reach beyond PS5 and PS6. The studio group needs to build IP to help sony leverage itself in the future. They're not rivals or antagonistic, they're partners, but they have significantly different priorities and responsibilities.
At some point they might be entirely as separated from each other as Sony music was from the division making walkmans (sony electronics) or the Sony Pictures team and Sony's TVs.
Mibu no ookami
Member
How many direct reports should a CEO have?
The studio group itself has more than 8 studios... so you're going to have a minimum of that many direct reports. They're located across the globe. Do you have enough time to meet with them twice a month while also meeting with Asad Qizilbash of PlayStation Productions? And then on top of it meeting with Cerny in hardware and meeting with the PSN team and the cloud team?
SIE has two CEOs but they don't really have a traditional C-Suite structure. They have a bunch of SVPs.
People ask why Sony is slow to deliver on some things and I think it's probably at least somewhat attributable to their hierarchy.
Nishino is now in a position to try to ensure every product they release bolsters the platform group. Almost immediately we saw the release of the PSVR2 PC adapter. I think we'll also see PS Portal incorporate cloud and eventually see cloud on PC, MacOS, Android, and iOS, in addition to WebOS, Android TV, and Apple TV.
They can accelerate their roadmaps because they now have more delineated management. They were against the wire in terms of their position in the industry and this might be a decision that saves them.
The studio group itself has more than 8 studios... so you're going to have a minimum of that many direct reports. They're located across the globe. Do you have enough time to meet with them twice a month while also meeting with Asad Qizilbash of PlayStation Productions? And then on top of it meeting with Cerny in hardware and meeting with the PSN team and the cloud team?
SIE has two CEOs but they don't really have a traditional C-Suite structure. They have a bunch of SVPs.
People ask why Sony is slow to deliver on some things and I think it's probably at least somewhat attributable to their hierarchy.
Nishino is now in a position to try to ensure every product they release bolsters the platform group. Almost immediately we saw the release of the PSVR2 PC adapter. I think we'll also see PS Portal incorporate cloud and eventually see cloud on PC, MacOS, Android, and iOS, in addition to WebOS, Android TV, and Apple TV.
They can accelerate their roadmaps because they now have more delineated management. They were against the wire in terms of their position in the industry and this might be a decision that saves them.
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Majormaxxx
Member
Pay attention. The guy on the right will be replaced by CaptaiN Druck in 2 to 3 years.
And when that happens... It's joever for Playstation as we knew it.
And when that happens... It's joever for Playstation as we knew it.
Astray
Member
They're not promoting him because he's a creative visionary, they're doing it because he's a competent business man who knows development and dev tech very well. You need a guy who makes the trains run on time and knows tech enough to anticipate trends and stay in front of them.
existensmaximum
Member
Yeah but why are people saying it's a horrible idea to pick him for the job? Has he done something bad?The mastermind behind Jinroh, erhh, I mean Killzone.
Look, I enjoyed Killzone 2, it visually and game-wise still holds up to this day, and the guy is a competent business man who pulled Guerrilla through some hard times. However, he does not possess the "ground breaking" creative visionary thinking to lead their creative workforce imo.
Looking back, I'm still kinda perplexed how he managed to talk SCEE into acquiring Guerrilla. The guy must have a real silver tongue.
Killjoy-NL
Member
I don't know about the bolded part.
While obviously more profit is to be made by making all games available on all platforms, there is literally no reason to assume that Hulst wants to 'pull an Xbox'.
Hulst has been with Playstation since 2005, he's well aware about Sony's philosophy and what makes the brand successfull.
What you say doesn't even make any sense, because in such a scenario Hulst would be a liability that could potentially undermine Playstation's success.
Lunarorbit
Member
Remember how there were going to be like 5 horizon projects at once? Tv show, sequel, mmo, etc... it's a very corporate thing to triple down on big projects to score big wins.
Like others have said smaller projects DO work but Sony is reluctant to do that now. Seeing foam stars totally crater was obvious and Sony keeps making mistakes like this.
Personally I'll never forget they canceled factions 2 cause it wouldn't be profitable enough. Fuck bungie forever for that brain rot
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Yeah hear he has such a good history of making narrative single player cinematic experiences
wtf kinda drugs are yall on
Mibu no ookami
Member
You've misunderstood.
I'm not speaking specifically about hulst, but rather a generic person in his position.
As CEO of the studios group, it theoretically makes the most sense to develop for all platforms. Astrobot would probably sell just as well on Switch as it would on PS5.
The studio group hasn't splintered off from SIE and PlayStation, at least right as of this moment, but it's not infeasible that at some point the Studio group becomes more profitable than the platform group, especially as publishers self platform.
Herman Hulst was made a co-ceo because Sony is recognizing the future of their gaming business is just as important in software and IP development as it is in PlayStation as a platform and there is no surprise there when you look at the success of things like the Mario movie or detective pikachu movies. A handful of IP can generate more operating income than PlayStation can in a generation.
As of today though, he's in a position to balance the theoretical success of the software group with sony's other strategic objectives.
Killjoy-NL
Member
We have Xbox as a prime example of how moving away from exclusivity will kill your brand.
No CEO at Sony or Nintendo would be stupid enough to make the gamble Xbox made.
Making more profit is in relation to Sony's current strategy and that new accountant stating that they have to streamline their business to not waste as much money.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Or Xbox is failing for other reasons such as having no worthwhile content.
Netflix is an example of how not being exclusive elevates your brand.
Not sure what you're referring to in the last sentence, by new accountant do you mean Totoki the CFO? They're going to lean more into PC in the next 5 years. PC is a growth opportunity for them, just as handheld and mobile are.
The Last of Us Part1 was a great example. It sold well on PS5, even the remaster was boosted on PS4, but the lack of a PC release squandered sales opportunity and even when it released it was in poor shape, being exclusive to PS5 isn't a winning solution for Sony and even Nintendo may run into similar issues with the next Switch.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Toots
Gold Member
I could forgive him for being a brainless suit pushing gaas at sony like his pitiful life depended on it, but his style, his clothes, his way of being, that i can't forgive.
PatientGamer
Member
One is responsible for hardware, the other responsible for software.
Sounds like a match made in heaven to me. Hopefully they can both deliver the goods.
Sounds like a match made in heaven to me. Hopefully they can both deliver the goods.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Track record? They made one game on PS2, i.e. KZ1, which despite all the media BS around it being a Halo killer and not eventually panning out, the game was solid.
KZ2 was announced with the infamous CGI and then the final game is the best FPS ever made, was the best MP game on PS3 and launched to absolute rave reviews and was the best looking game on the platform implementing technologies that were way ahead of their time.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Druckman is a creative, not a business guy. Doubt he would want the job
hououinkyouma00
Member
He always came across as just European to me lol
nial
Gold Member
I didn't mean that Nishino was inherently more important than Hulst here, it's just that he needs to oversee almost every division at SIE, except for PlayStation Studios.
I want to add that we didn't even see games FIRST produced under his tenure until this year, with Stellar Blade, Concord and Astro Bot. Two of these are bangers at the very least.
While I agree with your idea, it was not a shut down per se, simply put you literally cannot separate WWS Japan Studio from WWS as a whole (same reason it factually can't exist before September 2005), and the moment WWS went into a full-on restructuring on April 1, 2021 when it became PlayStation Studios, WWS Japan Studio was replaced by the Japanese branch of PS Studios, which functions exactly the same.
Before: Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc. (a Japanese company); WWS Japan Studio (a division); Internal Development Department, External Development Department, International Software Development Department, etc. (several departments).
Now: Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc. (a Japanese company); PlayStation Studios (a division); Team Asobi, External Development Department, International Production & Localisation Department, etc. (several departments).
Frwrd
Member
In all seriousness, I don’t think it’s a bad thing that more people get to experience more games, especially if they’re good.
I do understand that some people might not be too excited about that but that’s also okay, everyone has their own opinion.
I know people that only have their PCs and can’t buy a console at the moment for whatever personal reason, being able to play some of the games on their PCs has been positive.
And contrary to belief PlayStation is definitely selling ‘some’ hardware with this strategy, I do know people that are holding off on the OG PS5 because they’re waiting for that PS5 PRO, so we’ll see in due time.
Ps: sorry for the wall of text
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LavitzSlambert
Member
Guess we'll see how this goes. Pretty much anything is a step up from Jimbo, hope they don't prove me wrong.
Majormaxxx
Member
But the job's got what Druck craves. It's got
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Toots
Gold Member
He's the second worst we have to offer, just behind bright red tanned flip flops and socks wearing germans tourists. Those are truly the worst.
Hypereides
Gold Member
As far as I'm concerned, one shouldn't exclude the other. This is a creative industry first and foremost. It should be driven by creative vision first, profitably second (70:30 ratio). Both intertwined and balanced, ideally. As I said, Hulst has proven to run a business competently, but he's lacking the creative caliber to truly be fit for the position he's in. If Sony purely goes with a business guy leading the creative division, then we, as gamers and players, will feel the result and consequences of that decision eventually.
Speaking about the tech aspect, I don't really see it as anything other than the chisel and hammer to get the job done in this biz. An uninspiring and unimaginative artist with the greatest and most cutting edge tech would most likely produce a bland and unimaginative creation.
Astray
Member
You want your creators to create, not to spend their time doing budget reviews and doing management stuff.
Putting someone like Kojima or Cory Balrog on top of PS game studios would deprive you of their creativity AND not guarantee results.
Hypereides
Gold Member
I'm sure there are other aspiring artists aside from those two. I also wouldn't exactly feel deprive when their creative leaderships, insight and experience would trickle down to their workforce.
Guaranteed results? Then the message to the shareholders, investment bankers and bean counters should be clear: "deal with it". Again, this is a creative industry that was built and arose from such. Without various visionaries' daring ideas and concepts breaking into the market over time, this industry wouldn't have grown into the behemoth it is today. Over the past decade that ratio has become unevenly and heavily skewed towards the business side. This uneven split has lead us to the current stagnation and high risk aversion we see in the AAA space.
Pure creativity is chaotic, risky and volatile. Its a caveat they'll need to accept and take into consideration whenever they would be "banking" or "gambling" on a publisher/developer.
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