yup, gotta spend that energy.
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GSL November 2011 StarCraft II Finals
- Thread starter Hazaro
- Start date
I'm really glad we had an amazing finals. I truly hope this advances the game and inspires more to step up their game.
Winner spoilers:
http://i.imgur.com/4Qarn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zx8z7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eLpWA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9vdZh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PPDTx.jpg
Winner spoilers:
http://i.imgur.com/4Qarn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zx8z7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eLpWA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9vdZh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PPDTx.jpg
AdventureRacing
Member
Having 2-3K minerals banked when you die just isn't acceptable. That could be like 100 lings which is kinda game changing.
Also i am getting so frustrated seeing zergs not split their banes. The terran is on their doorstep, they sit there for like 5-6 minutes just preparing their one massive bust to try and break the terran wall. After all that you see the banes moving in one clump and dieing to one tank volley.
Splitting your banes just has such a huge impact on engagements. I think when zergs start doing this at the top level it will make those mid-late game pushes so much more difficult.
Also i am getting so frustrated seeing zergs not split their banes. The terran is on their doorstep, they sit there for like 5-6 minutes just preparing their one massive bust to try and break the terran wall. After all that you see the banes moving in one clump and dieing to one tank volley.
Splitting your banes just has such a huge impact on engagements. I think when zergs start doing this at the top level it will make those mid-late game pushes so much more difficult.
Omotesando
Member
You are oblivious.
Leenock was max or near max, even after the massive lost of muta's near the chokepoint of the terran. The lost of so much mutas, thus used gas is so detrimental to the zerg unit composition, that he can only pump zerglings. There were 6 hatcheries, and a everyone has a queen injecting. Even with that amount it is hard to use up the crazy amount of minerals income (very early saturated 3rd base and early 4th base). Notice his gas has always been low.
Losing the muta's and Jjakji's use of the short distance, getting his army in position is what lost Leenock the game, not his 'bad' macro. lol.
i agree with everything except split banes because it can go both ways depending on the terran spread.
flanking with banes is very good though.
AdventureRacing
Member
In what situation is split banes actually worse? Just testing it in practice games and in micro mini games it seems to make a huge difference in every situation. If the terran is spread well that will reduce the effectiveness somewhat but it will be even worse if they're not split.
Pretty much once there are siege tanks on the map you need to be splitting your banes.
I also think they should flank as well but sometimes it can be difficult to get units around for a flank.
Look at the previous games, Leenock didn't let his minerals banked get that crazy so early in the game. I agree that it was partly because of Jjakji's pressure but he still shouldn't end up with that much minerals.
he didn't have good tech when he lost that muta so he just remade them and that is also considered bad macro.
can't wait till a good zerg find the perfect timing to tech while getting muta because it seems thats most zerg lack that kind of timings right now (nestea is the best when it comes to that because he lose muta like that he is getting better composition behind them).
Omotesando
Member
The previous games were on different maps and were played differently. Leenock didn't lose so much muta's, and he was evdidently more in control in those games. The last game was basically Jjakji in control, after the muta lost.
The thing is Leenock had amazing income, and the unit lost per gametime was so high, it is impossible to replenish and use up the crazy amount of income. Unless offcourse you get the time to make 3 extra hatcheries, a hive + ultralisks, but hey this is the GSL championship. That amount of time you only get in the platinum leagues.
AdventureRacing
Member
Just because you lose mutas doesn't mean you should end up with that many minerals. Drop down some hatcheries, build some spines just use it for something.
I'm not buying that excuse. I've seen enough ZvT's in the GSL in all sorts of situation under all sorts of pressure where the zerg can keep their minerals down.
The pressure from Jjakji made it difficult but not impossible.
How did MMA get in and not sen?
Omotesando
Member
he had the right tech. Upgraded muta's and lings + banelings against a 2 base terran. In that short amount of time, havinf tier 3 (broodlords + ultras) only happens in magic starcraft (which doesnt exist). On top of that the map distance make 2 base terran pushes so dangerous, the only option Leenock had was to counterattack, which also meant his downfall.
The fault was entirely flawed choice making and judgement and a little bit of micro (too long to pull out his muta from the marine ball), rather then faulty macro.
Omotesando
Member
Hatcheries take time to make. I agree crawlers would have bought him some time, although that would just be another impossible situation because every ounce of free creep was saturated by tank siegelines. Remember jakkji was sieging the natural alsmost the entire time after he pulled out with a 170/200 army.
MVP given the blizzcon spot, meaning GSL spots go to the top 3 after MVP
Annoying disruption, but more imba units in the right places is good for the game.I really wish HotS wasn't coming out. I can only see it as a bad thing.
wow, so there was a chance for only 1 terran in blizzcon cup.
AdventureRacing
Member
Seems a little bit arbitrary to me. MVP got the blizzcon spot and sen was next in line. Both were sort of entitled to a spot.
I'm glad it's MMA but i do wonder how they decided.
questionmark
Member
Nestea is next in line for the Blizzcon spot. Only because he has a top 3 GSL spot, is Sen next in line. While MMA is next in line. Two people would need to forfeit their spot for Sen to be next in line, while just one has to for MMA to be next in line. I guess it is a minor technicality, but what else are they going to base it off of?
AdventureRacing
Member
No that sounds fair enough. I'm kinda glad things worked out that way. It was looking like there was going to be a few too many zergs and not enough terrans with sen there. That plus i think MMA probably deserves to be there.
i love MMA and slayers but tbh he reached 2 finals by playing tvt only >_>
i would have loved to see sen there but i don't want to watch a tournament with 1 terran duking it out with tons of zergs.
AdventureRacing
Member
I think the slots were a little unfair on the GSL players. All the other slots were given out to players winning tournaments within the last month or so. Whereas the GSL spots were handed out based on points for the entire year.
It kinda sucked that MMA could win the GSL around the same time other people were earning there spots winning MLG, IPL etc and then he misses out.
Whatever the case though having another terran there will make the tournament more interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfOTG0b40i4
hahahha
Just watched game 1 on vods, that was a great game.
hahahha
Just watched game 1 on vods, that was a great game.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Just finished all the VODs, easily the best Bo7 I've ever seen from a level of execution standpoint and one of the most entertaining ones ever to boot (if only we'd had a game 7!). Jjakji played a TvZ that blew my damn mind, and Leenock was damn near his equal.
Both players were amazing which was good to see, I get the feeling Leenock will be back in a code S semifinal at least for the next few seasons.
Both players were amazing which was good to see, I get the feeling Leenock will be back in a code S semifinal at least for the next few seasons.
Those two things alone can win you so many more games it's not even funny. Hope it is quick.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Amazing finals, perhaps the best GSL finals yet. The first game was one of the best SC2 games I've ever seen. It really looked/felt more like a BW match, and also showed us a couple unpopular strategies I have a feeling will be popping up a lot more (CCs behind minerals and fast 3-3 Mutas). Each game was good, what an amazing set of games. I wish I had watched them live.
I wonder if Leenock went into the matches a bit cocky. Regardless he's a young kid and will be back, there's no doubt in my mind. Him and Stephano are clearly the best zerg players in the world. I think Nestea has fallen from his previous spot given his disastrous GSL performance, and the subpar MLG appearance.
I wonder if Leenock went into the matches a bit cocky. Regardless he's a young kid and will be back, there's no doubt in my mind. Him and Stephano are clearly the best zerg players in the world. I think Nestea has fallen from his previous spot given his disastrous GSL performance, and the subpar MLG appearance.