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Honestly, if Diablo IV will turn out to be a success, then we only have ourselves to blame for the state of the industry

Drizzlehell

Drizzlehell

Banned
OmegaSupreme said:
Very well. I'll tear apart your argument in a few sentences then.

"Not to mention that the game's balancing will be inevitably skewed towards exploiting players, thus making us either grind for eternity or pay up."

"inevitably" You have literally zero evidence of this. Cosmetics are all that's for sale. Could this change? Maybe but you have no way of knowing that.
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We have years of evidence in the form of past bumfuckery perpetrated by this company. Do you really believe that they suddenly found Jesus and stopped trying to rip suckers off?

Sorry, the only thing that was ripped here is a huge fart that came out of my ass after I started laughing at this.
 
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OmegaSupreme

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Drizzlehell said:
We have years of evidence in the form of past bumfuckery perpetrated by this company. Do you really believe that they suddenly found Jesus and stopped trying to rip suckers off?

Sorry, the only thing that was ripped here is a huge fart that came out of my ass after I started laughing at this.
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Such as?
 
NinjaBoiX

NinjaBoiX

Member
As I’ve said earlier in the thread, I’m actually really pleased with how the MTX model works nowadays; fund development of the bread and butter content by encouraging the diehard fan base to spend cash on superficial stuff like skins and emotes.

It’s such a good business model, that has little detrimental impact on the core game other than minor annoyances.
Luipadre said:
Why? D4 looks like a well made game and polished for launch. I dont care about BP or cosmetics, i just dont buy them. Its that fucking simple
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It’s really that simple at this point.

We’ve moved away from map packs and other forms of expansions that we had back in the day, it just splits the player base which is obviously really bad for player engagement.

Yes, the new evil is distracting storefronts and constant pestering from the progression system to buy the battle pass or whatever, but it’s very easy to just mash skip and ignore it.

It’s a small price to pay, 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
Dynasty8

Dynasty8

Member
I support good, fun games. I've never purchased a cosmetic using real currency, ever... Mainly because I don't care much about it and also it's not worth it at all IMHO.

I realize GaaS don't have the best reputation, mainly due to aggressive monetization...but some of these games are unique and fun experiences that can't be found elsewhere. People like to hate on games like Diablo and Destiny, but they've also provided me and my friends countless hours of fun and joy. The raids in Destiny are the most fun I've had gaming since the 90's

If there are those who want to spend $20+ on a skin that absolutely does not affect gameplay, so be it, more power to them.

Let's also not pretend that we ourselves would not do the same thing if it belonged to us. If I spent that much time and money making a game, I'd be a complete hypocrite if I said I wouldn't capitalize on every aspect of it. I 100% would. So would you.
 
Gambit2483

Gambit2483

Member
ungalo said:
Meanwhile, Capcom seemingly hid battle pass in SF6 but nobody made a thread about it because they are a japanese publisher (meaning the almighty God for gamerz).
Click to expand...
Or because the base game has so much damn quality "free" content that it doesn't hamper from the overall experience.

Most multiplayer games today have some form of monetization. The key is finding the balance that doesn't reduce the base game experience or lead to "pay-to-win" BS.
 
Optimus Lime

Optimus Lime

(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
Some of the nerds in here just cannot enjoy anything without going into a foaming at the mouth meltdown over 'da state of da indushtry'.

Preloaded, ultimate edition, I'm going to have a great time.
 
OmegaSupreme

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Gambit2483 said:
Or because the base game has so much damn quality "free" content that it doesn't hamper from the overall experience.

Most multiplayer games today have some form of monetization. The key is finding the balance that doesn't reduce the base game experience or lead to "pay-to-win" BS.
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Most modern fighting games have character passes. All of them really. None of them launch with complete rosters. That's way beyond anything for sale in Diablo 4 imo.
 
U

ungalo

Member
Gambit2483 said:
Or because the base game has so much damn quality "free" content that it doesn't hamper from the overall experience.

Most multiplayer games today have some form of monetization. The key is finding the balance that doesn't reduce the base game experience or lead to "pay-to-win" BS.
Click to expand...
The roster doesn't seem particularly impressive. And even besides that, the game can have a good content, you have to be upfront about your model anyway. The game is still 70 dollars + already announced character DLC. Now you have ALSO monthly battle pass. That's just as questionable (if not more) as what OP is talking about.

On the contrary, the content of D4 doesn't seem to be put into question so far, and as other people pointed out the microtransactions seem cosmetic only so far. So why the blame ?
 
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Gambit2483

Gambit2483

Member
ungalo said:
The roaster doesn't seem particularly impressive. And even besides that, the game can have a good content, you have to be upfront about your model anyway. The game is still 70 dollars + already announced character DLC. Now you have ALSO monthly battle pass. That's just as questionable (if not more) as what OP is talking about.

On the contrary, the content of D4 doesn't seem to be put into question so far, and as other people pointed out the microtransactions seem cosmetic only so far. So why the blame ?
Click to expand...

Street Fighter 5 started with 16 characters and eventually ended up with 46 characters over 6 years. It takes time to add and balance so many characters in a 2D fighter.

People need to stop comparing every fighting game to Smash Bros.

The game is currently $59.99 on Amazon and features a multitude of single and multi-player content. Stop trying to "make something out of nothing".

If it was a bad game game with bad practices the reviews would reflect as such....They don't.
 
U

ungalo

Member
Gambit2483 said:
Street Fighter 5 started with 16 characters and eventually ended up with 46 characters over 6 years. It takes time to add and balance so many characters in a 2D fighter.

People need to stop comparing every fighting game to Smash Bros.

The game is currently $59.99 on Amazon and features a multitude of single and multi-player content. Stop trying to "make something out of nothing".

If it was a bad game game with bad practices the reviews would reflect as such....They don't.
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SF5 was highly criticized for that at the time no ? Granted it was not just the characters but still. And i don't care it ended with 46 characters since you pay for the season pass.

I'm not comparing to anything, i'm saying the roster is not particularly impressive, i'm not saying it's a scandal either.

I was refering to the relevance of this particular thread and comparing the treatment of 2 publishers. If pointing out the fact Capcom hid the battle pass is supposed to be bitching about nothing, you can apply that to D4 because reviews of D4 are not reflecting that it's a bad game as well.
 
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sachos

sachos

Member
Yeah i get your point OP, although it is true that the GaaS model fits some games/genres better than others, we are hypocrites at times.

Having said that, its impossible "to ignore the GaaS aspect of the game", a game being designed as a GaaS has every aspect of its design impacted by that business model: from the always online restriction that fucks with the modding community (something that made D2 even greater than it already was), game preservation/ownership and gameplay stability if you just want to play singleplayer, to the cosmetics that should either be rewarded for in game achievements or used as the base art for new items instead of variations on already existing ones.
 
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Drizzlehell

Drizzlehell

Banned
OmegaSupreme said:
Such as?
Click to expand...
bianca-del.gif


If it wasn't obvious before that you're just straight up trolling, then it is now.
 
Gambit2483

Gambit2483

Member
ungalo said:
SF5 was highly criticized for that at the time no ? Granted it was not just the characters but still. And i don't care it ended with 46 characters since you pay for the season pass.

I'm not comparing to anything, i'm saying the roster is not particularly impressive, i'm not saying it's a scandal either.

I was refering to the relevance of this particular thread and comparing the treatment of 2 publishers. If pointing out the fact Capcom hid the battle pass is supposed to be bitching about nothing, you can apply that to D4 because reviews of D4 are not reflecting that it's a bad game as well.
Click to expand...
Yeah, SFV had an abysmal launch, which is why Capcom learned and improved upon the SFVI launch.

I paid about $35 for SFV Champion Edition on PS4 with all/most characters so I (personally) can't complain...

Yea I hear you man but "battle pass" in Fighting Games term is more like "Character Pass", akin to Smash Bro Ultimate...much less of a stigma because you are actually getting "bang for your buck"...i.e. GOOD content.
 
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F

Feel Like I'm On 42

Member
Drizzlehell said:
Now, I'm not saying that anyone should feel bad about buying a game, okay? That's stupid. Do whatever you want with your life, and I completely understand if you don't wanna hear anything that I'm about to say. I'd probably tell myself to fuck off too if it was about a game that I was really hyped about.

Everyone else who's willing to listen though, read on.

People always bemoan the state of the industry and how everything is GaaS, how games are getting more expensive but their quality keeps going down, how monetization getting more aggressive, and how everyone is sick of it yadda yadda yadda. Whenever news comes out about yet another corporate figurehead doing something horrible, either to their own employees, to their company, or just dragging the industry further down the tubes, everyone is eager to share their token words of support or voice their disapproval. Whenever a beloved franchise gets dragged through the mud or a story comes out that a hotly anticipated game got canceled and its developer was sent down to Call of Duty sweatshops, everyone is fuming.

But whenever time comes to put your money where your mouth is and choose not to support a straight up malicious company that helped shape this industry into what it is today, that's when all integrity goes out the window because "oh wow, it's another Diablo, finna cum!"

Suddenly it doesn't matter that it's yet another GaaS game with predatory monetization schemes, battle passes, and all that trash, and that people who made it pulled so many scumbag moves in the past that it has a whole collection of class action and civil lawsuits under their belt today.

I do realize that I'm probably just yelling at clouds here because most of us just wanna buy the damn game and not having to feel conflicted about it. I'm not an innocent here either because I bought my share of Call of Duties in recent years as well. But there really comes a point where you should ask yourself if it really makes sense to keep complaining about all of the stuff that I mentioned here, when we're so quick to throw these morals out the window as soon as a game that we're really excited about comes along and we only care about playing it to distract ourselves from our boring, depressing lives for a few hours.
Click to expand...

I disagree with the part about how we shouldn't complain if we DO decide to buy a game from one of these shitty companies. Complaining is still good even if you're a hypocrite in this instance. Better would be to boycot yes.
 
Drizzlehell

Drizzlehell

Banned
OmegaSupreme said:
Give me the relevant evidence. I'll present mine in case you missed it.

www.gamesradar.com

Diablo 4's "much more ambitious" seasons won't be pay-to-win, Blizzard says

Blizzard, walking on eggshells, talks Diablo 4 live service monetization
www.gamesradar.com www.gamesradar.com

Your entire argument is speculation based on feelings.
Click to expand...
You're basically giving me a publisher who says "trust me bro" against a documented history of blatant lies, unfulfilled promises, and some of the biggest anti-consumer bullshit known to man committed by the very same publisher. Including a game from the same franchise released barely a year ago, which was so lovingly referred to as "Diablo Immoral"

Yeah, sure man, I see absolutely no reason why we shouldn't trust them.
 
OmegaSupreme

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Drizzlehell said:
You're basically giving me a publisher who says "trust me bro" against a documented history of blatant lies, unfulfilled promises, and some of the biggest anti-consumer bullshit known to man committed by the very same publisher. Including a game from the same franchise released barely a year ago, which was so lovingly referred to as "Diablo Immoral"

Yeah, sure man, I see absolutely no reason why we shouldn't trust them.
Click to expand...
So your entire argument is based on a free to play mobile game? Okay then. I'm presenting you the words from the mouth of the game director. That could change I guess. Anything could happen. The sun could blow up tomorrow. You're still speculating.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
Bumblebeetuna said:
It was a genuine question GHG GHG , I have no idea. You know where you can put your laughing emoji 👍
Click to expand...

What kind of question is it when they are literally spelling it out, even down to the release "schedule" over the upcoming days.

So yeh, hope you enjoy where it gets put, it seems to be something you're well accustomed to.
 
OmegaSupreme

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
GHG said:
What kind of question is it when they are literally spelling it out, even down to the release "schedule" over the upcoming days.

So yeh, hope you enjoy where it gets put, it seems to be something you're well accustomed to.
Click to expand...
I'll ask you since the others have piss weak arguments. What's your issue with this?
 
Drizzlehell

Drizzlehell

Banned
OmegaSupreme said:
That could change I guess.
Click to expand...
YA THINK?

You're basically taking a stance of someone who's willing to turn your back on a serial killer armed with a knife just because he promised not to stab you. Sure, he might keep his word but anyone with two brain cells to rub together probably wouldn't take that chance.

Like I said, you don't really want to have a real discussion here. You're just blindly defending a video game against people who said some mean things about it.
 
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Fbh

Fbh

Member
This stuff is here to stay.
You can boycott the games out of your own conviction or wait until they drop to a price where you think it's worth it even with the inclusion of microtransactions. But "voting with your wallet" at this point isn't going to do anything because the election has long been over and the overwhelming majority voted in favor of microtransactions and battle passes.

At least Diablo has always been about the grind so the GAAS model fits.
 
laynelane

laynelane

Member
DeepEnigma said:
"Ourselves" nothing. I don't participate in the normie nickel and dime loop.

They just played the long game, and said that they would have to take the initial bad press until us dinosaurs die off, and the youth are raised on their slot machine game designs with a pachinko phone in every one of their hands.

They were right, and it's paying off for them.
Click to expand...

Same. I don't play games that have a tonne of monetization. It helps that some of the worst offenders are companies that I have boycotted too. Do you remember all the outrage when DLC started to become a thing? It all seems so long ago now. I'm just glad it's not every company heavily monetizing their games. At least, for now. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 
lefty1117

lefty1117

Gold Member
To me, the cost of making games, and games launching in unfinished state, is a bigger problem than GaaS. I actually think GaaS is a symptom of the real problem which is game development is just too expensive and takes too long. We need some sort of fundamental shift, whether that is in technology or process or something.
 
OmegaSupreme

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Drizzlehell said:
YA THINK?

You're basically taking a stance of someone who's willing to turn your back on a serial killer armed with a knife just because he promised not to stab you. Sure, he might keep his word but anyone with two brain cells to rub together probably wouldn't take that chance.

Like I said, you don't really want to have a real discussion here. You're just blindly defending a video game against people who said some mean things about it.
Click to expand...
A real discussion with you is impossible because you have no argument. I have facts. Are you a precog? Can you see into the future? Are you a developer for path of exile and are upset that this game is going to piss all over it?
 
GHG

GHG

Member
OmegaSupreme said:
I'll ask you since the others have piss weak arguments. What's your issue with this?
Click to expand...

"paid early access" - the game is finished, they are capitalising on gamer psychology (FOMO) to make extra money

$10 battlepass - the reason for this is to get gamers accustomed to any microtransaction or gambling system in the game for a very low price. See it as the "microtransaction starter pack". Exhibit A from the other thread:


Exhibit B:


Everything else, I've covered in the thread linked above but in summary:



There will be integral elements of this game that will be designed around selling the microtransactions available, particularly on the UI/UX side of things with no way to disable them. I guarantee the moment you open the game you will be bombarded with windows outlining what's available for sale that you will need to dismiss. This is all by design. That's not even going into the fact that they will have employees posing as regular players in the public hub areas flaunting all the most expensive gear the game has for sale at any given moment (PoE do this).

So yeh, none of it is innocent, it's all by design and they will have spent disproportionate amounts of money on psychologists to help them come up with all of this stuff, particularly on the UI/UX side. That's money that could have gone towards simply making the game better orore expansive in other areas, as with everything resource/monetary driven, there's an opportunity cost.

It's fascinating to me how we've gone from horse armour to where we are now. Where do we even go from here?

I don't have as strong a stance as the OP and will be getting the game once the dust has settled and the most abhorrent stuff has thoroughly been rejected (preferably at a slight discount). So maybe I'm still part of the problem I guess. In the meantime I'll just play games that don't have any of the aforementioned crap.
 
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OmegaSupreme

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
GHG said:
"paid early access" - the game is finished, they are capitalising on gamer psychology (FOMO) to make extra money

$10 battlepass - the reason for this is to get gamers accustomed to any microtransaction or gambling system in the game for a very low price. See it as the "microtransaction starter pack". Exhibit A from the other thread:


Exhibit B:


Everything else, I've covered in the thread linked above but in summary:



There will be integral elements of this game that will be designed around selling the microtransactions available, particularly on the UI/UX side of things with no way to disable them. I guarantee the moment you open the game you will be bombarded with windows outlining what's available for sale that you will need to dismiss. This is all by design. That's not even going into the fact that they will have employees posing as regular players in the public hub areas flaunting all the most expensive gear the game has for sale at any given moment (PoE do this).

So yeh, none of it is innocent, it's all by design and they will have spent disproportionate amounts of money on psychologists to help them come up with all of this stuff, particularly on the UI/UX side. That's money that could have gone towards simply making the game better orore expansive in other areas, as with everything resource/monetary driven, there's an opportunity cost.

It's fascinating to me how we've gone from horse armour to where we are now. Where do we even go from here?

I don't have as strong a stance as the OP and will be getting the game once the dust has settled and the most abhorrent stuff has thoroughly been rejected. Maybe I'm still part of the problem I guess.
Click to expand...
A thoughtful response unlike op. I do agree the paid early access is kinda shitty. You should be able to play it early with any preorder if you're going to go that route. As far as how in your face the mtx will be I don't know. I guess we will find out. I'm playing this almost entirely just for the campaign anyway. I'm also not a dumbass and don't need a kfc helmet for my character.
 
Bumblebeetuna

Bumblebeetuna

Member
GHG said:
What kind of question is it when they are literally spelling it out, even down to the release "schedule" over the upcoming days.

So yeh, hope you enjoy where it gets put, it seems to be something you're well accustomed to.
Click to expand...

Per usual, no substance. Stick to emojis.

Also, release “schedule”? So I assume it’s a staggered release, based on “gold” or “deluxe” editions? I mean… MS, Sony, EA, Ubi, TakeTwo, ABK, pretty much every publisher not Nintendo does that, so I’d say you’re just as accustomed to it as anyone else who plays games 🤷‍♂️
 
Krathoon

Krathoon

Member
What is great about Diablo 4 is that at least they let you demo the game before buying it. They are not doing that early access crap like with Balder's Gate 3.
 
simpatico

simpatico

Member
You're skipping Diablo 4 on moral grounds. I'm skipping Diablo 4 because I forgot my BattleNet password. We are not the same.
 
Draugoth

Draugoth

Gold Member
The folks defending Blizzard monetization of this game are also the folks that spend $35 on a single piece of Overwatch Mythic Skin.

Stuart360 said:
Also with the way publishers are, if mtx didnt exist we would probably already be on $80 games, AAA games at least.
Click to expand...

Still considerably cheaper than buying erverything on the cosmetic shop for a week.
 
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Mr. Freeman

Mr. Freeman

Neo Member
It will be a success for sure. Critics and players alike I think will be aligned this time. Just like with the new Zelda.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
OmegaSupreme said:
I'm also not a dumbass and don't need a kfc helmet for my character.
Click to expand...

The fact this is even a thing is equal parts sad and hilarious.

Bumblebeetuna said:
Per usual, no substance. Stick to emojis.

Also, release “schedule”? So I assume it’s a staggered release, based on “gold” or “deluxe” editions? I mean… MS, Sony, EA, Ubi, TakeTwo, ABK, pretty much every publisher not Nintendo does that, so I’d say you’re just as accustomed to it as anyone else who plays games 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

You're really not deserving of anything else in all honesty. If "everyone's doing something" then it must be ok? Great logic there mate. Quintessential lemming mentality.

Always defending shitty industry practices, always defending shit games.
 
OmegaSupreme

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
GHG said:
The fact this is even a thing is equal parts sad and hilarious
Click to expand...
It is funny to me too. I have no idea if you can get a literal kfc bucket head but I hope so! It still boils down to purely cosmetics. Nothing worth getting upset over imo. If that changes like op has prenosticated then I can understand. Until then this is nothing. The game is content rich and complete at launch. Any shiny hats a person may want to buy is on them.
 
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GHG

GHG

Member
OmegaSupreme said:
It is funny to me too. I have no idea if you can get a literal kfc bucket head but I hope so! It still boils down to purely cosmetics. Nothing worth getting upset over imo. If that changes like op has prenosticated then I can understand. Until then this is nothing. The game is content rich and complete at launch. Any shiny hats a person may want to buy is on them.
Click to expand...

The problem I have at the moment is that none of the reviewers/youtubers I trust have reviewed this yet (which is odd in itself). I didn't play the beta either so would be flying blind. Just going to wait a few weeks and see what the consensus is once lots of people have had a decent amount of time with the final game.
 
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Bumblebeetuna

Bumblebeetuna

Member
GHG said:
The fact this is even a thing is equal parts sad and hilarious.



You're really not deserving of anything else in all honesty. If "everyone's doing something" then it must be ok? Great logic there mate. Quintessential lemming mentality.

Always defending shitty industry practices, always defending shit games.
Click to expand...

I'm simply trying to understand what makes Diablo IV stand out and be the "litmus test" for how gamers should react to predatory monetization. So far I haven't seen or read about any predatory monetization in Diablo IV. Not defending anything. Also, the idea that early access is a shitty practice is entirely your opinion. It's a practice virtually every industry endorses. I don't know why some of you hold gaming up on this pedestal where it should not be altered or advanced in any way. It's sad.

And last I checked Diablo IV has a pretty good review list 🤷‍♂️
 
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