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Horizon Forbidden West - Digital Foundry Tech Review - A PS5 Graphics Masterclass

Gamerguy84

Member
This game is beautiful enough at performance mode. I'm playing on performance because I prefer the smooth 60.

It's just that it's stunning at 30 resolution mode. I played enough of that one to know as well.
 

Bojji

Member
This game is texture monster, best looking textures aside some PC games with mods:

FL_HFN2XMAUSzLA
FL_HS30WUAAgzAz
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I sometimes don’t understand.

Do you really believes Guerrilha didn’t try native 1440p? I mean they tried several types of resolution and configs before reach the final result.

What I get is that didn’t want to lose any feature/effect in 60fps mode… so they reached the 1800 CBR.

Maybe 1440p native they should have to give up some effects compared with 30fps… after all 1800 CBR is less demanding than 1440p.
Seems strange that they settled on the exact same pro settings and the option they had for the pro version of the original game. It’s like the engine is already set up to do 1800p cbr and they just went with it. Not good :(
 

Swift_Star

Banned
You don't need scientific research for that, different people perceive things like motion and tearing differently. For example, I know at least person who gets migraine like headaches when they see/play a game with obvious screen tearing.

Most of us may not have an issue with 30 FPS, but some people may.
BS unless proven otherwise. Sorry, I’m not going to trust hyperbolic PC gamers.
 

Lysandros

Member
Let's do some weird math with that pic :D

1080p native = 1920x1080 = 2073600 px
1440p native = 2560x1440 = 3686400 px
1800p native = 3200x1800 = 5760000 px

1440p looks to have 64% of the 1800p px... if we take that with the 12.2ms from 1800p then you will have 7.8ms for 1440p.
1440p looks to have 178% of the 1080p px... if we take that with the 5.2ms from 1080p then you will have 9.2ms for 1440p.

I can't say for sure where 1440p native will land but it is most probably between 7.8ms and 9.2ms.
So for this game even in the worst scenario the 1440p native will be faster than 1800p CBR (9.2ms vs 9.6ms).

But that only accounting for this test render time (I don't know what is he rendering in the test but it probably not a full frame maybe an effect because in 30fps the each frame can be up to 33.3ms... so 9.6ms seems to be some part of the render only)... anyway the point is that there are others things not showed in this test like bandwidth use, CPU user, etc... he choose a part of the render to show his gains in that part... maybe a full frame render should be a better comparison because it englobes everything.

Maybe 1440p native can indeed works.

It just that I don't believe they didn't test 1440p native at all... resolution is not chose like that... they tests several scenarios to decide which one to optmize and use.
Wow, what an impressive effort, you are certainly not lazy (like me). Thanks to this we have a rough idea that native 1440P can possibly be as fast maybe even faster than 1800pCB. The cost of HFW specific implementation can differ of course, but i don't think it should be 'that' different. Well done. ;) 👍
 

SeraphJan

Member
I call this BS and hyperbole. Unless you can provide scientific research that people really get motion sickness from 30fps I’ll never believe it. Do they also get this when seeing movies at the theater? Those are 24fps. Nah, still calling it BS.
In movie it does not have rapid camera movement that simulate how real life works, try to search the term motion sickness to get a better idea of the term.

This problem is actually even more obvious when it came into VR territories, have you wonder why in VR they have to keep fps so high?
 
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RafterXL

Member
It just that I don't believe they didn't test 1440p native at all... resolution is not chose like that... they tests several scenarios to decide which one to optmize and use.
Well, they did use CBR for the first game, and they worked on the CBR used in Death Stranding, AND Sony has built in hardware in the PS4 for CBR. It's also the exact same method used in this game on the PS4 Pro.

I 100% believe they never tried 1440p and never had any intention of using anything but CBR. The problem Is that the target used in the Performance mode of HFW is significantly lower than what they've used before, so it looks significantly worse, especially when you combine it with the reduced particles (same as PS4?) compared to the Resolution mode.
BS unless proven otherwise. Sorry, I’m not going to trust hyperbolic PC gamers.
So you just think the YEARS of people talking about this are all just made up? I supposed you think people who get sick from too narrow an FOV or head bob are making it up too, right?

It happens to people all the time, pretending all the people who get sick from these things are faking is hilarious.
 

Kuranghi

Member
Looks absolutely phenomenal on my ZD9, just amazing work, so much detail it takes time for my brain to take it all in lol. Man I wish there was a way to record video or take photos of your TV playing content and have it have anywhere near the dynamic range, depth, motion quality and clarity of what you see in real life. I swear as soon as I can do that I will sell TVs through the internet in 90 seconds from start of sale to close. What I show people on amazing quality TVs in my job is so fucking crap compared to how it could look and they still think its mindblowing, because it is still amazing, just not as good as is could be.

The colour fading/smearing issues seen in this thread are probably caused by VA panels to an extent but its not the main issue, I have a TV with a freaking 31ms 100% response time and I don't see have this issue, so I'd say its more to do with shitty panels with colour issues caused by having rubbish image processing and maybe also having too many "image enhancement" settings turned on.

If I turn motion blur off in Fidelity mode I can see the individual frames of her running animation without smearing or ghosting, it shouldn't be happening on all these VA TVs with much much shorter pixel response times (99.99% of them anyway, given how much of an outlier my set is).

Time for new TVs!

PM me for advice, I love tellys.
 

NeonGhost

uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
Looks absolutely phenomenal on my ZD9, just amazing work, so much detail it takes time for my brain to take it all in lol. Man I wish there was a way to record video or take photos of your TV playing content and have it have anywhere near the dynamic range, depth, motion quality and clarity of what you see in real life. I swear as soon as I can do that I will sell TVs through the internet in 90 seconds from start of sale to close. What I show people on amazing quality TVs in my job is so fucking crap compared to how it could look and they still think its mindblowing, because it is still amazing, just not as good as is could be.

The colour fading/smearing issues seen in this thread are probably caused by VA panels to an extent but its not the main issue, I have a TV with a freaking 31ms 100% response time and I don't see have this issue, so I'd say its more to do with shitty panels with colour issues caused by having rubbish image processing and maybe also having too many "image enhancement" settings turned on.

If I turn motion blur off in Fidelity mode I can see the individual frames of her running animation without smearing or ghosting, it shouldn't be happening on all these VA TVs with much much shorter pixel response times (99.99% of them anyway, given how much of an outlier my set is).

Time for new TVs!

PM me for advice, I love tellys.
Yeah have a lg c1 the ghosting and over sharppened is out of control and Guerilla needs to fix it
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Well, they did use CBR for the first game, and they worked on the CBR used in Death Stranding, AND Sony has built in hardware in the PS4 for CBR. It's also the exact same method used in this game on the PS4 Pro.

I 100% believe they never tried 1440p and never had any intention of using anything but CBR. The problem Is that the target used in the Performance mode of HFW is significantly lower than what they've used before, so it looks significantly worse, especially when you combine it with the reduced particles (same as PS4?) compared to the Resolution mode.

So you just think the YEARS of people talking about this are all just made up? I supposed you think people who get sick from too narrow an FOV or head bob are making it up too, right?

It happens to people all the time, pretending all the people who get sick from these things are faking is hilarious.
Yes. How about that scientific evidence? Is there any research?
 

Kuranghi

Member
Yeah have a lg c1 the ghosting and over sharppened is out of control and Guerilla needs to fix it

The ghosting isn't too bad on my mine because of the long PRT but I do wish there was a sharpening slider, I would bump it down a notch or two, or it would be great if you could change how it handles the really high contrast and/or high frequency detail edges since thats the main place where I see artifacts.

Even if they don't add that stuff I don't mind though, I can see why you'd be disappointed on an OLED though, really reveals artifacts like that very clearly.
 

k1m1d4n

Member
Looks absolutely phenomenal on my ZD9, just amazing work, so much detail it takes time for my brain to take it all in lol. Man I wish there was a way to record video or take photos of your TV playing content and have it have anywhere near the dynamic range, depth, motion quality and clarity of what you see in real life. I swear as soon as I can do that I will sell TVs through the internet in 90 seconds from start of sale to close. What I show people on amazing quality TVs in my job is so fucking crap compared to how it could look and they still think its mindblowing, because it is still amazing, just not as good as is could be.

The colour fading/smearing issues seen in this thread are probably caused by VA panels to an extent but its not the main issue, I have a TV with a freaking 31ms 100% response time and I don't see have this issue, so I'd say its more to do with shitty panels with colour issues caused by having rubbish image processing and maybe also having too many "image enhancement" settings turned on.

If I turn motion blur off in Fidelity mode I can see the individual frames of her running animation without smearing or ghosting, it shouldn't be happening on all these VA TVs with much much shorter pixel response times (99.99% of them anyway, given how much of an outlier my set is).

Time for new TVs!

PM me for advice, I love tellys.
Exactly what I've been thinking. I also think the problem has to do with the TV. I started playing the ps4 version on my small monitor, when I changed to the ps5 version on my 4k QLED the grass shimmer appeared only on the resolution mode. Now I changed back to my small monitor, the shimmering disappeared and other stuff started happening. For example when light shines through surfaces it appears as a white blur when the camera stops moving.
 
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Bogeyman

Banned
Absolutely stunning game, based on the videos that I've seen. Maybe the best looking game so far.

However, I feel like there's something uncanny Valley-like going on for me. I instantly noticed quite negatively how vegetation barely reacts to her walking through. How water doesn't flow properly around stones in the river, nor the character wading through. How there's clipping issues with her equipment.

Odd thing is, those issues exist in pretty much every game, and usually I barely notice at all. I wonder if this just becomes much more apparent if the overall visual quality is otherwise on such a high level.
 

SLB1904

Banned
Absolutely stunning game, based on the videos that I've seen. Maybe the best looking game so far.

However, I feel like there's something uncanny Valley-like going on for me. I instantly noticed quite negatively how vegetation barely reacts to her walking through. How water doesn't flow properly around stones in the river, nor the character wading through. How there's clipping issues with her equipment.

Odd thing is, those issues exist in pretty much every game, and usually I barely notice at all. I wonder if this just becomes much more apparent if the overall visual quality is otherwise on such a high level.


nice try
 

ethomaz

Banned
Did you seriously compare a movie frame rate to a games lmao this is all you need to know you have no clue what you are talkin about
There is no difference in framerate between videos or games… in fact when you watch somebody in YouTube playing is basically watching a movie.

A 30fps movie (if exists) will have 30 frames being showed in sequence per second.
A 30fps game will have 30 frames being showed in sequence per second.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
You don't need scientific research for that, different people perceive things like motion and tearing differently. For example, I know at least person who gets migraine like headaches when they see/play a game with obvious screen tearing.

Most of us may not have an issue with 30 FPS, but some people may.
And all these 30fps sickers are here in GAF…

You not wanting or liking 30fps is fine but to say it “burn the eyes”, “case sickness”, “hurt my eyes”, etc man there actually real sickness in life… ask somebody with cancer if 30fps cause sickness lol
 
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NeonGhost

uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
There is no difference in framerate between videos or games… in fact when you watch somebody in YouTube playing is basically watching a movie.

A 30fps movie (if exists) will have 30 frames being showed in sequence per second.
A 30fps game will have 30 frames being showed in sequence per second.
Playing something and watching something are 2 different things
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
And all these 30fps sickers are here in GAF…

You not wanting or liking 30fps is fine but to say it “burn the eyes”, “case sickness”, “hurt my eyes”, etc man there actually real sickness in life… ask somebody with cancer if 30fps cause sickness lol

To be clear I have no issue with it, I'm just playing devils advocate that there *may* be some people who do.

I'm planning to play this game (HFW) on the Pro so there's no choice for me in the matter anyway.
 

ethomaz

Banned
I simply do not understand how or why this is the worst performance mode I've ever used in a game. Really looks bad
Well I called that a week ago and people said I was overreacting.

4k30 mode looks sublime… the best looking game on consoles.
Performance mode… well is bad… looks like a PS4 Pro enhanced… so last gen.
 
And all these 30fps sickers are here in GAF…

You not wanting or liking 30fps is fine but to say it “burn the eyes”, “case sickness”, “hurt my eyes”, etc man there actually real sickness in life… ask somebody with cancer if 30fps cause sickness lol
Nice straw man. Don't think anyone's comparing 30 fps to cancer. It's comparing it to 60 where it 'hurts the eyes'. Your probably just not sensitive to it. Doesn't mean it isn't a real thing. Its is harder to take in visually that's a fact. Add in motion blur, frame spikes, and how most people are playing FW after just playing their recent 60 fps game. It's not that crazy a concept.

BTW I'm playing Horizon at 30 fps and it took me a while to adjust, though now it's not so bad. I wish it was 60 though as it would feel better.
 
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Seems strange that they settled on the exact same pro settings and the option they had for the pro version of the original game. It’s like the engine is already set up to do 1800p cbr and they just went with it. Not good :(
It's lower res than the first. The first game had better iq. I believe the first was 1800p checkerboarded to 2160p where this is checkerboarded to 1800p.
 
Absolutely stunning game, based on the videos that I've seen. Maybe the best looking game so far.

However, I feel like there's something uncanny Valley-like going on for me. I instantly noticed quite negatively how vegetation barely reacts to her walking through. How water doesn't flow properly around stones in the river, nor the character wading through. How there's clipping issues with her equipment.

Odd thing is, those issues exist in pretty much every game, and usually I barely notice at all. I wonder if this just becomes much more apparent if the overall visual quality is otherwise on such a high level.
I think there's def some uncanny valley people are experiencing.
 

Hoddi

Member
I believe the first was 1800p checkerboarded to 2160p where this is checkerboarded to 1800p.
Both these have the same meaning. Checkerboarded 1800p just means 3200x1800 but with half resolution on the horizontal axis (so, 1600x1800) which gets reconstructed to a final 3200x1800 output. This output is always upscaled to 4k regardless of what the input resolution was.

There tends to be a lot of confusion over this but 'checkerboarding 1800p to 2160p' is a contradiction. It's just 'checkerboarded 1800p' which makes it all the more strange why the game looks so poor in performance mode. Unless it's simply the wrong number or possibly just a bug that needs fixing.
 
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rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I really wonder why nobody invented a tech to display games at 30 fps but have controls register at 120.
You know, a bit like oculus carmack time warp.
 

Filldo

Member
Well, they did use CBR for the first game, and they worked on the CBR used in Death Stranding, AND Sony has built in hardware in the PS4 for CBR. It's also the exact same method used in this game on the PS4 Pro.

I 100% believe they never tried 1440p and never had any intention of using anything but CBR. The problem Is that the target used in the Performance mode of HFW is significantly lower than what they've used before, so it looks significantly worse, especially when you combine it with the reduced particles (same as PS4?) compared to the Resolution mode.

So you just think the YEARS of people talking about this are all just made up? I supposed you think people who get sick from too narrow an FOV or head bob are making it up too, right?

It happens to people all the time, pretending all the people who get sick from these things are faking is hilarious.
Thare are Dozens of you!!
 
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This game is texture monster, best looking textures aside some PC games with mods:

FL_HFN2XMAUSzLA
FL_HS30WUAAgzAz
Gaf does this stuff all the time. I remember when Killzone shadow fall first came out this place was filthy with up close photos of tree bark and metal grating. Saw it talked and hyped about so much that I thought when I finally get a PS4 I'm going to get this Killzone game. Such a shitty game.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Because he probably play games in 30fps and 60fps just fine…

A normal behavior…

Sure, but we can't also discount the user whose saying they feel discomfort at 30 FPS, maybe they do .. who knows. Instead of asking them to present scientific studies about it lol.
 
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Swift_Star

Banned
And all these 30fps sickers are here in GAF…

You not wanting or liking 30fps is fine but to say it “burn the eyes”, “case sickness”, “hurt my eyes”, etc man there actually real sickness in life… ask somebody with cancer if 30fps cause sickness lol
You, sir, I like you.
 
Gaf does this stuff all the time. I remember when Killzone shadow fall first came out this place was filthy with up close photos of tree bark and metal grating. Saw it talked and hyped about so much that I thought when I finally get a PS4 I'm going to get this Killzone game. Such a shitty game.

Have you played Zero Dawn?
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Sure, but we can't also discount the user whose saying they feel discomfort at 30 FPS, maybe they do .. who knows. Instead of asking them to present scientific studies about it lol.
These people have been watching movies and television at 24/29/30fps their whole lives. Movies, specially action movies, are filled with camera pans and that always causes motion blur. These people don’t feel sick with this, but they do with games? Nah, I’m calling it fake outrage, hyperbole and BS.
They want to play games at 60fps with pristine image, there’s a place for them: PC.
 
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Gamerguy84

Member
Gaf does this stuff all the time. I remember when Killzone shadow fall first came out this place was filthy with up close photos of tree bark and metal grating. Saw it talked and hyped about so much that I thought when I finally get a PS4 I'm going to get this Killzone game. Such a shitty game.
Well this game is a texture monster. They are everywhere, hi res detailed textures are on everything. The short, green grass that I walk through I see every individual blade.

A lot of work went into this it's very impressive.
 
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