Luigi Mario
Member
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i fucking love the impact the Steam Deck's already had on the industry in just 1 year.
- Thread starter 64bitmodels
- Start date
Topher
Gold Member
That form factor was not introduced by Switch and it didn't make Switch unique. Switch's hybrid nature is what made it a "roaring success" and yet Steam Deck doesn't have detachable controls, kick stand, or even a dock in the box. So if Valve was trying to capture Nintendo's success then how is it they left out so many key aspects of what made Switch what it is? Steam Deck is much more in line with traditional handheld designs.
The smart phone industry followed Apple's lead in nearly every way. Steam Deck utilized design elements that predated Switch. The basic elements of the screen in the middle with controls on either side go all the way back to the Atari Lynx and Sega Game Gear.
This is all speculation either way. Is there an argument that the Switch's success sparked the idea of Steam Deck? Of course. I've said as much although I've backed off from that. But I think the fact that technology came into being that made handheld PC gaming viable is an equally strong argument.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Nintendo is all I need. Thank you, Nintendo. Without you, there would be no handheld gaming.
Klosshufvud
Member
Nautilus
Banned
As far as I know, it wasn't official, and it was a workaround people found later, well after the PSP launched.
On top of that, and actually the main reason for that, is that the PSP was never planned or intended to be played on a TV. If you give me an official source stating that Sony always planned that as a feature, then I'll admit I was wrong, but that was never a thing until the Vita, and even then it came later in it's life, and it was a separate(and expensive) acessory. So no, not a hybrid.
It took a few months, but the Deck HAS an official dock, that docks the hybrid console, and not only that, but the Deck was marketed as such, as a portable PC that you could take on the go, or just dock and work as a regular PC if you feedled with it a little. It was there day one.
It is even listed in their own website as being able to play as PC and I quote "Because it is one".Not only that, it also says that you can play on a TV with the right accessories(i.e. a dock). What is something that can act as a PC, a home console, and a handheld console? A hybrid.
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StueyDuck
Banned
it's really not speculation, Nintendo proves with switch that the market is there and it's huge, another company follows in it's footsteps.
there is no conspiracy or massive secret going on behind the scenes here, without the switch's success, the deck wouldn't exist. does that mean it was designed to be a switch clone, of course not, but without nintendo proving that it's viable in that form factor, valve would have no reason to tackle the market considering they already have a stranglehold on PC gaming.
why did they not choose to pursue this when the Nvidia Shield launched, it's so silly to say that because X existed before that means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING influenced the modern thing. The switch is absolutely the reason for the decks creation and quite frankly, it's success as well, because of how underpowered the switch is.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Steam Deck has sold what? 2 or 3 million units?
It’s really niche.
It’s really niche.
Nautilus
Banned
Not even that. It's only a bit above 1 million units sold.
Anyone thinking it was someone other than Nintendo that is spearheading this new wave of hybrid consoles is simply delusional.
StueyDuck
Banned
Not even that. It's only a bit above 1 million units sold.
Anyone thinking it was someone other than Nintendo that is spearheading this new wave of hybrid consoles is simply delusional.
next we are going to hear the mini NES classic didn't spur on that mini collection console trend either. because sega maybe released something similar in 2002 back in the day. So there's no way all these new retro mini consoles were inspired by nintendo, not at all.
sony definitely didn't blunder and fuckup a playstation classic chasing that trend
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Topher
Gold Member
Of course it is speculation. Neither you or I can see this alternate reality where Switch doesn't exist. Do we know for a fact that handheld PC gaming would be a thing without Switch? Yes, we absolutely do because gaming PC handhelds existed before Switch did.
Again, we didn't need Switch to prove that Nintendo's ability to release a successful handheld. They have been doing that for decades. So the form factor is entirely irrelevant.
Valve had "no reason" to launch Steam Machines or Steam Link or Steam controller either and yet they did all those things. To say they would not have launched a handheld is a massive assumption.
StueyDuck
Banned
it's not speculation it's called having business sense, Gabe N sees switch, see's sales of switch, see's his own steam sales, ding ding money money money.
he didn't see that when the alternatives years ago sold 25000 units.
also everything you mentioned was absolutely good reason to do so, the Console market was massive so they made steam machines to compete, the Google chrome/ apple TV craze was taking off so Steam link was a reason to compete.
the controller is genuinely the baffling one but everything you mention all had proven market success hence why they tried to enter those markets to varying success
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Switch has been a major success since 2017. Valve didn’t rush out the Deck years ago.
This feels off-topic anyway. The thread title is spot on. Steamdeck wasn’t the first handheld PC - far from it - but the Deck’s success has led to dramatic revisions in the quality and frequency of the Chinese handheld PCs. And major players are taking notice.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
The DS was a roaring success
The 3DS was a roaring success
The Gameboy was a roaring success
Mobile gaming is a roaring success
PSP hardware was a roaring success
Handheld gaming existed before Nintendo’s Game and Watch.
What’s evident is that people enjoy gaming on the Go. That’s what Valve saw. A big opportunity in the PC space.
Going by your logic eShop wouldn’t have existed if not for Steam. Big Summer and Winter digital sales wouldn’t have existed without Valve.
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To me it proved how much of an anchor Windows is for these kinds of niche markets, SteamOS doesn’t have 100% compatibility but outside of anticheat games it really feels like it.
Which is great because new handhelds can in the future (or now if you use unnofficial builds) use an OS that actually feels nice to use with handheld controls, or lit a fire under MSs to either match the feature set or at least make it work better. Either way it’s a win-win.
Which is great because new handhelds can in the future (or now if you use unnofficial builds) use an OS that actually feels nice to use with handheld controls, or lit a fire under MSs to either match the feature set or at least make it work better. Either way it’s a win-win.
Topher
Gold Member
Making guesses about "what would happen if" is, by definition, speculation. It has been pointed out multiple times that Nintendo's history of success in handhelds is extremely well known. Valve's entry into handheld gaming coincided with new tech that made that possible. If it was simply a matter of jumping on a market Nintendo was successful in then they could have done that long ago. To me, that new tech is the more compelling argument for the reason the Steam Deck exists. But we are just repeating ourselves at this point so I'll agree to disagree.
StueyDuck
Banned
I don't know why the switch being the progenitor to the deck hurts you so.
But it is truth. Best to just move on and be happy it exists. Without the switch it wouldn't be.
Again using the argument of "thing in the past so now future could never be because of something popular" is such a flimsy excuse. A Gameboy is not a switch, but deck sure as hell is a switch in all but name in terms of its use and form factor. What a surprise. Wonder why that is. Must be all those Nokia Ngages that got Gabe thinking hahaha
The deck was not created in a vacuum and to think it was is well, as said many times before, silly
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Klosshufvud
Member
You seem to be unaware that Switch wasn't the first handheld.
Klosshufvud
Member
Ok now we know Switch only exists because of PS Vita since the form factor is the same
StueyDuck
Banned
Yes I definitely thought switch is the only handheld gaming console. It still is as well. It's the only console ever actually. That's ever existed in all of time ever
StueyDuck
Banned
I promise you if the vita did as well as it should have and Sony didn't fuck up simple things, the handheld market would be extremely different today.Ok now we know Switch only exists because of PS Vita since the form factor is the same
Same as the wii U. Same as all failed product. If holo lens and Google glass blasted off and sold billions you'd bet your arse Sony and Nintendo and valve would have their AR glasses
Topher
Gold Member
Hurts me? lol…that’s the rhetoric you have to resort to? You say more about you than me, dude.
StueyDuck
Banned
Hey guess whatHurts me? lol…that’s the rhetoric you have to resort to? You say more about you than me, dude.
Deck doesn't exist without the switch and it's success
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Except it's not. GPD Win and others came before the Switch plus the Deck is not a console so Switch or any other console has nothing to do with it.
Steam machines are not consoles and have nothing to do with any console.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
they're not consoles... they're PCs
& besides that, can you name many similar handheld PCs from before the steam deck existed?
all the big handheld PCs sprouting up now seem less like a response to the Switch and more like a response to the Steam Deck. I highly doubt that if it weren't for the Deck's release we would be getting as much of this stuff.
they all started popping up after the deck's release. seriously. Give me 6 examples of handheld PCs from 2017-2021 (after the Switch's release and clearly aping off the success of the switch) and i'll concede that all this success is because of Nintendo
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Topher
Gold Member
Hey guess what
Deck doesn't exist without the switch and it's success
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
besides that though
why go thanking & crediting nintendo in a thread which is celebrating the fact that we DON'T have to play handheld games from Nintendo anymore? Which is celebrating the fact that options besides Nintendo for handheld gaming exist? If you wanted to celebrate Nintendo you could go to the Switch OT or even make a thread of your own
why go thanking & crediting nintendo in a thread which is celebrating the fact that we DON'T have to play handheld games from Nintendo anymore? Which is celebrating the fact that options besides Nintendo for handheld gaming exist? If you wanted to celebrate Nintendo you could go to the Switch OT or even make a thread of your own
cireza
Member
That's great for you. The 'super poor' you are referring too was specifically about my issues with layout/hud/text size on the device, to clarify.
I know that we are not all equals in terms of eyesight. I will get strain if I have to read or distinguish tiny stuff for hours. For some I understand it can be perfectly fine. But personally, I can't play or read something like this for hours :
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
that explains a lot and i'm far more empathetic and understanding of your point now. I can imagine that would hurt if you get eye strain reading such small text.
cireza
Member
I suppose I am not 20 years old anymore
That's great for you. The 'super poor' you are referring too was specifically about my issues with layout/hud/text size on the device, to clarify.
I know that we are not all equals in terms of eyesight. I will get strain if I have to read or distinguish tiny stuff for hours. For some I understand it can be perfectly fine. But personally, I can't play or read something like this for hours :
I don’t have 20/20 vision, I wear glasses. So I’m not immune to strain
That said, you’re picking a worst case scenario game here. I played Hades, Horizon Zero Dawn and several other titles on my Deck and the text size was fine.
cartman414
Member
All of these answers miss the point that the games were made with the systems in mind, and wouldn't have been made otherwise.
Steam Deck can run them, but not natively. And it's true I'd rather have one in this day and age than a Game Boy/Advance, but games like Donkey Kong '94 and WarioWare Twisted! are GB/A games at their core.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Just mod it? https://www.nexusmods.com/eldenring/mods/451That's great for you. The 'super poor' you are referring too was specifically about my issues with layout/hud/text size on the device, to clarify.
I know that we are not all equals in terms of eyesight. I will get strain if I have to read or distinguish tiny stuff for hours. For some I understand it can be perfectly fine. But personally, I can't play or read something like this for hours :
cartman414
Member
To compete with this legendary handheld of course
RIP the greatest d-pad ever made.
Eh, merely the first time Sony didn't muck it up.
Saturn d-pad is still the king.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
To compete with this legendary handheld of course
RIP the greatest d-pad ever made.
cireza
Member
I don't doubt that for many games it will be fine, some even have font size options. Still the majority of PC games are not created with a handheld experience in mind and have small text.
This is also an option.
I didn't mean to derail the thread, so I will leave at this.
bender
What time is it?
Nautilus
Banned
They are hybrid consoles.
And no, I can't. Because the Switch started this trend by being the first (successful) hybrid console. That's what people have been trying to say to you.
No copy cats appeared earlier bevause it was too soon. 2017 was the year the Switch launched, and also the year everyone thought the Swotch was DOA. 2018 was the year that everyone was "yeah, the Switch wasn't DOA, but how successful this concept really is?" phase. 2019 was the year that everyone and their grandma acknowledged that hybrid consoles were here to stay and started working on these copy cat product. 2020 might have been the year that we would have started seeing those stuff, including the Steam Deck, if it wasn't for a small thing that happened then: Covid and lockdowns. That probably delayed everything until 2022, when the Steam Deck was released.
Or what, do you really think that these copy cats are scrambling these stuff together in a few months? Because if they were indeed inspired by the Deck, it would have taken a few months until said "inspiration" reached these individuals, because that one million units sold certainly seems super inspiring, to then start working. Steam themselves must have taken a few years to build the Steam Deck, after they were inspired by the Switch AND the Switch concept was proven in the battlefield that is the market.
Klosshufvud
Member
A butt load of assumptions and speculation in one post. UMPCs existed before Deck. Deck has more in common with those than Switch. Switch didn't invent handhelds and the idea that a device connects to a larger screen was done on smartphones years prior to Switch. The Switch itself is just a slightly downclocked Nvidia Shield handheld. Hardly the revolutionary device you seem so keen on selling it as. It too was strongly dependant on technology before it and most of its innovations had been done beforehand.
I'd argue track pads are more innovative and opens up for more genres than anything Nintendo has done in decades. I'd argue Deck was only possible due to years of work with SteamOS, Proton and Steam Controller. It's a natural continuation of the evolution of Valve software and hardware. Comparing a locked down Nvidia Shield recycle to a device intended for near every PC game of every genre is insulting to the latter. Valve had to invent so many new technologies for Deck to be possible. While Switch in its purest sense is a PS Vita copy paste that runs Nintendo games. Not saying it sucks because of that but let's not pretend it was a groundbreaking device in terms of tech/innovation. Also, the dock feature is hardly the selling point of Deck. The dock was sold separately way later. It is a handheld, not a hybrid home console device.
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Brigandier
Member
Nautilus
Banned
It's a hybrid console, as discussed before.
And isn't this whole thread, and the OP in specific, and also on what you just said, also based on a whole lot of assumptions and speculations? Talk about being hypocritic.
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The Cockatrice
Member
I hate handheld gaming but even I have to agree with this.
Kenpachii
Member
Switch has nothing to do with it.
Gaben was stuck in australia with corona and realized he wanted a more portable Pc with him so he could play PC games, that's why the steamdeck was created.
This is also why its big and powerful and has no limitations towards it.
It's also for hardcore PC gamers only because he doesn't even care or want to sell it in shops. Gaben gives zero shits about sales. He gets a shit ton of money from PC gamers every day anyway with or without it.
And that's exactly what it is, a extension towards your PC or replacement for your PC.
I see it more as a evolution towards a PDA and Steam PC's.
Gaben was stuck in australia with corona and realized he wanted a more portable Pc with him so he could play PC games, that's why the steamdeck was created.
This is also why its big and powerful and has no limitations towards it.
It's also for hardcore PC gamers only because he doesn't even care or want to sell it in shops. Gaben gives zero shits about sales. He gets a shit ton of money from PC gamers every day anyway with or without it.
And that's exactly what it is, a extension towards your PC or replacement for your PC.
I see it more as a evolution towards a PDA and Steam PC's.
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Mobilemofo
Member
I like it, but I ain't buying one.
Mr Branding
Member
lol, these Nintendo fanboys….
This topic is about a very specific thing related to the Steam Deck yet here they come to rain on everyone’s parade with their Switch sales figures and “facts”. Why tho?!? I really don’t get it.
It’s like I make a topic named “Switch is the most influential and best selling hand-held” and folks come in and argue it’s not as powerful as a Steam Deck, or doesn’t have as many games, etc..
This topic is about a very specific thing related to the Steam Deck yet here they come to rain on everyone’s parade with their Switch sales figures and “facts”. Why tho?!? I really don’t get it.
It’s like I make a topic named “Switch is the most influential and best selling hand-held” and folks come in and argue it’s not as powerful as a Steam Deck, or doesn’t have as many games, etc..
Mephisto40
Member
Purchase self justification thread
Mr Branding
Member
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
There are genuinely so many differences in technology, software, game lineup, and hardware that it's just ridiculous to compare a Steam Deck to a Switch and try to attribute one to the other besides the obvious "they're big handhelds"
They are fundamentally different in terms of software, approach, and appeal. And many of the handheld PC clones are targeting the Deck's way of doing things rather than the Switch's. That's why they're so much more expensive and powerful than the Switch. that's why they don't have detachable controllers. That's why they have extremely sophisticated system software instead of a simple menu to select your games from. That's why all of them are coming out after the Deck's release instead of trying the Switch's idea 5 -6 years earlier when it actually came out!!!!
At MOST you can say that the Deck exists because of the Switch (which i admitted, is true). But to act like they're one in the same. calling the deck a console, and attributing the boom in X86 AMD powered handhelds over the past year to Nintendo of all people because they proved the Switch's concept years earlier is at best tangential and at worst trolling
Klosshufvud
Member
It's a handheld PC. It being a handheld PC means it has the option to hook up to a display by the nature of it being a PC.
TC is comparing handheld PCs. Switch is not a handheld PC. There is a clear distinction between what's mentioned in the first post and what you're extrapolating it into.
Mr Branding
Member
What I would have loved for Steam Deck to borrow from Switch is the detachable nature of the controllers even tho I’m not sure that would ever work with the trackpads and all. And I’m saying this because when the Sd sticks eventually give in I’d rather get replacements instead of opening the thing.