MrCookiepants
Member
Ew, Jade Empire. I just remembered IGN gave that game a 9.9. :lol
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IGNs Top 100 RPGs
- Thread starter King of the Potato People
- Start date
Ciastek3214
Junior Member
The only way to make a "proper" list (that would be highly controversial), is to take someone who plays video games but never played RPGs, make him play all of them, and let him rank them. That is of course virtually impossible, but it would make more sense than ranking higher older games you played when you were longer, because of nostalgia.
grimshawish
Banned
ME1 does deserve to be there imo.
Skyrim? Fuck off. Seriously, its not as good as other games in that table and has some major major issues.
Skyrim? Fuck off. Seriously, its not as good as other games in that table and has some major major issues.
Manmademan
Member
Not really, because in any "top whatever" list, influence and impact on the industry needs to be taken into account.
In the same way that citizen Kane and the hobbit tend to show up in lists all the time even though they've been surpassed by more modern works, games like DQ1, FF7, Pokemon red/blue also deserve credit since a very large percentage of the list would not exist without them. Someone totally new probably wouldn't get that.
Influence and impact aren't everything though, and this list seems to account for it totally randomly.
Is this about FFVI? because none of this applies to that game. maybe 4, but "barren world" isn't applicable there, either.
NekoFever
Member
Manmademan
Member
I don't see why not. solid game, did a lot of things right.
I disagree, the only time impact on the industry and influence needs to be taken into account is when you are making a "Top X influential/important <genre> games". Otherwise the games should be rated entirely on their own merits, i.e. as a game experience.
Manmademan
Member
And if that experience was revolutionary and innovative for the time, causing dozens of games to imitate it for decades (as is the case with the games I listed) how do you rate that experience over a later game that simply refined the formula it made successful?
The original iPhone is still one of the best consumer electronics devices of all time, even if it's laughably outdated compared to say, the galaxy s3. Give someone both devices, they'll prefer the galaxy no question, but someone aware of the history and context will name the iPhone 1 as the better device, since the galaxy owes it's existence to it.
No one ranks older games higher because of nostalgia. Only children think this. People do however rate them higher because of how revolutionary they were, as they should. A game which took risks, gave players a totally new experience, and changed the gaming world should be rated higher and praised more than a game that just gave you more of the same crap.
Easily, you ignore it, a list of Top X Games made in 2012 should judge each game against one another as a game not as a phenomenon. Your example makes this clear, if you are making a list of Top Phones then the Galaxy S3 is quite clearly a better phone than the iPhone 1. Its only if you are making a list about influence or importance that these things matter. In essence if you are comparing one game to another they should be compared based on the games intrinsic merits, not on external elements (influence, impact, etc.). If you are recommending games to people (which all Top X lists implicitly are) then the actual experience a new player would have is the most important thing. Just because a game from twenty years ago was very influential it shouldnt be recommended over a game from this year that offers a superior play experience. If the game is genuinely enjoyable then it can hold its own e.g. Chrono Trigger, Mother 3, etc.
No it shouldnt, it should only be ranked higher if its a better *game*. If Game X created a new genre ten years ago but Game Y released last year refines that genre to its best expression then Game Y is a better game.
By these standards, the top game should have been Ultima 1, despite the fact that it is virtually unplayable now.
cj_iwakura
Member
There's not a single Saturn game in that list either.
That's the remake.
Sega CD= original.
Here's the original Sega CD world map:
(That you actually walk through, and that's maybe 1/8th of the trip to the White Dragon Cave.)
And PS1:
(No random battles)
And PSP:
we.are.the.armada
Member
FFIV, Chrono Trigger, and FFVI getting the props they deserve.
All three of these games were of high significance that impacted every SE RPG that came out afterward, made serious changes for the company, and continues to be the base for the derivative styles of the preceding games.
All three of these games were of high significance that impacted every SE RPG that came out afterward, made serious changes for the company, and continues to be the base for the derivative styles of the preceding games.
R_thanatos
Member
i know i know ...
don't worry , in 3 years , skyrim won't even be in the top 20 let alone top 50
Wafflecakes
Member
Yes.....it is. Much better.
Now if you are just looking at the time when the game was released Morrowind had a much larger gap between itself and the competition. That doesn't matter though imo. Should be which game is better, and modern games are better than older games in most cases. /flameshield
Then again I think a lot of older games are higher on the list than they should be. I am not mad though.
cj_iwakura
Member
From the three Elder Scrolls games I've seen(III/IV/V), I honestly don't see what makes them special or even remotely innovative. They seem like cookie cutter fantasy RPGs with the most standard aesthetics and gameplay possible, right down to canned animations.
Bloodlines at least tried new things.
Bloodlines at least tried new things.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Because they're extremely high budget and it's pretty much the only game franchise of that kind that you can put that much money into and actually make money.
Synth_floyd
Banned
I love how seriously people take these lists. The writers at IGN don't have any more credibility than anyone on this forum to make a definitive top 100 list.
cj_iwakura
Member
You'd think if they had that much money, NPCs could do more than one static animation.
Manmademan
Member
no, because I think that influence and impact are ONE of the things that should be taken into account, not the ONLY thing.
I'm pretty sure I commented before at Dragon Warrior 1 deserving a spot on the list (due to influence) but it's placement being far too high due to the mechanics rendering the game almost unplayable by modern standards.
an all time greatest list (as this is) is going to have to balance what's new and shiny (skyrim) with what's groundbreaking (dragon quest) and come up with some kind of compromise. This list attempts to do this, but it's unlikely whoever came up with it actually played all the games listed here, so the placement seems to be arbitrary and random, rather than thought out.
The list only consists of games that had been officially released in English.
SE didn't exist when those three games came out. You can say that for Square RPGs, but Enix was something different.
King of the Potato People
Member
There's nothing really wrong with linear game-play and I didn't find the plot predictable, the Zeromus twist was quite surprising so was introducing the underworld and the moon. I really don't know what you mean by barren.
I agree, I find Lost Odyssey more fun than some of the old FFs featured on this list.Uthred said:
Meccanical
Member
Mass Effect 1 being the highest of all of them and ME3 not being on the list leads me to believe IGN might have an opinion worth listening to.
MIGHT.
But they could easily lose this/
MIGHT.
But they could easily lose this/
Yeah should have been at least 7 or 8.
cj_iwakura
Member
Well, rather than continue circle griping about everyone's opinions, I'll just share my list and be done with it.
10. Persona 3
9. Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner
8. Lunar II: Eternal Blue (Sega CD)
7. Chrono Trigger
6. Final Fantasy VI
5. Growlanser II: The Sense of Justice
4. Dragon Force
3: Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
2: Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines
1. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
10. Persona 3
9. Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner
8. Lunar II: Eternal Blue (Sega CD)
7. Chrono Trigger
6. Final Fantasy VI
5. Growlanser II: The Sense of Justice
4. Dragon Force
3: Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
2: Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines
1. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
Ugh try 78
Innovation, taking risks, giving gamers a completely new experience is permanently tied into the game's quality. Even though Mario Galaxy 2 improved upon Mario Galaxy 1, I see Mario Galaxy 1 as a higher quality because it made more advances while MG2 gave us more of the same. For the same reason, I'd put Zelda: Ocarina of Time over Twilight Princess.
Perhaps someone had more fun watching the new Adam Sandler movie than they did watching Citizen Kane and 2001. That doesn't mean they should rate it higher than those two movies.
Top 20 is way too western/MMO heavy for my tastes - at least CT and FF6 scored the top slots and FF4 got pretty high up. And that one of the few western RPGs I enjoyed (Planescape) made it up pretty high. Isn't System Shock 2 an FPS (with RPG elements)? Everquest, really? Or the original Diablo are the biggest questionables. (plus I hate Star Wars so I'd never vote for the RPG)
It was nice to see that IGN didn't forget the PS series (1, 2, 4 and Online all made the list) but not having Star Ocean 2, Valkyrie Profile, Panzer Dragoon Saga, or Nocturne is a crime.
Fair enough.
Regarding Vampire Bloodlines, I'm not sure I'd include it in a top list unless we include fan mods and fixes. It would be up to the criteria of selection of course.
Regarding ME1, I am glad that it's higher than ME2 but I would not put it that high on a list personally.
Regarding Morrowind, I absolutely loved it for its exploration and the massive amounts of skills a character possess. Vvardenfell felt massive because quick travel wasn't so nonchalant and in fact as quite limited to Silt Strider stations and Mage's guild teleportation, as well as the Mark and Recall spells. The faster a person can traverse the land, the smaller the world is because there is no sense of distance. But that's enough gushing about Morrowind, and I haven't even included mods (not that I was well versed in them when it initially came out).
No offence, but its clearly not. If you get a random gamer and have him play two games, one of which was influential but aged badly, the other which may be derivative but is extremely enjoyable he's going to prefer the superior *game*, not the superior phenomenon. Its rather ironic that you insisted no one rates games based on nostalgia and then argue more or less that games should be rated on nostalgia.
Manmademan
Member
Influence and nostalgia are two different things. I wasn't around when citizen kane was released. it's not a part of my childhood, i'm not nostalgic for it. Same thing with Tolkien's literary works. That doesn't mean you can't recognize what those works did as being revolutionary, and their value (as a book, a movie, or a game) reflecting that.
Both have been surpassed by modern films and someone coming into movies or books blind would question their merit based on something newer. But just like books and films, making a "best of" requires that influence and innovation be recognized in some sense- i'm not saying it should be ALL that matters, but its something that deserves consideration, just as someone might consider quality of storyline or voice work.
cj_iwakura
Member
Hasn't stopped any other buggy game from getting positive attention. Bloodlines vanilla was just fine, if you kept frequent saves.
Meccanical
Member
Buggy or not, Bloodlines should be on here.
Deserves the top spot way more than FFVI.
Deserves the top spot way more than FFVI.
Schweinehund
Member
Would have ranked demon's souls higher than dark, and moved it closer to top 15 or even top 10.
Would have scaled back Diablo 2, Diablo 1 way farther back, and D3 not on the list at all.
Also ME1/FO3 out of the top 10.
Would have scaled back Diablo 2, Diablo 1 way farther back, and D3 not on the list at all.
Also ME1/FO3 out of the top 10.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I disagree, also literary works and films are a poor example because they largely dont age. Your specific examples are also terrible, Citizen Kane surpassed by modern films? Hardly, theres nothing out there that rivals its intricate use of mise en scene or deep focus. It's used as an example in film courses and tops best film lists because its still a technical masterpiece not because of its influcence (which was remarkably small for quite a long time after its release). Generally best film and best book lists are entirely devoid of entries based on influence and innovation, they let the work speak for itself - which is something games criticism should seek to emulate.
Well, Everquest laid the groundwork for WoW. Blizzards WoW team are made up of ex EQ guild leaders - Rob Pardo, Alex Afrasiabi, Jeff Kaplan to name a few. Blizzard hired these players because of their experience with Everquest. Its no exaggeration to say WoW was shaped by Everquest. WoW may have existed without EQ, but it would have been a fundamentally different game, and not in a good way. EQ's raid encounters were above everything at the time and anything that came before it. Blizzard wanted them in WoW.
You queried Everquest's entry on that list, but you didn't ask why WoW was on it too. If WoW is ok to be there, then EQ should be there too. (Of course, if the question is "what is an mmorpg doing in here", thats a different thing entirely. But as I've said, you seemed to be ok with WoW being there, so it doesn't seem like you take issues with mmorpg's being there, just EQ)
With barren I mean how little NPCs there are. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine that castles should have actual people to defend. Why is there a castle if there are only royalty, soldiers, an inn and a few shops? There are also a few places in the game where there are literally no people. SNES games like Chrono Trigger and FFVI actually had bustling towns. Even Breath of Fire II did it better.
As for the predictability, many times during the game when something happens, you're wondering who's going to 'disappear' from the party this time. And it's always some contrived way of letting you know that you're stuck with a handful of characters throughout the game. Fuck you for liking our characters and wanting some party customization. It should be condemned by it.