MrCookiepants
Member
Ew, Jade Empire. I just remembered IGN gave that game a 9.9. :lol
The only way to make a "proper" list (that would be highly controversial), is to take someone who plays video games but never played RPGs, make him play all of them, and let him rank them. That is of course virtually impossible, but it would make more sense than ranking higher older games you played when you were longer, because of nostalgia.
predictable plot
trite villain
linear dungeons
non-existing customization
barren world
decent, sure.
top five material, no.
"The Top 100 RPGs of All Time list celebrates the games that we believe most accurately exemplify the tenants of the role-playing game genre: building characters based on experience earned in the game, scaling combat based on the statistics of weapons, armor and abilities, making decisions - good or bad - that impact the game world."
I don't care about these useless lists, but Deus Ex HR surely should have been among those top 100 some where, no?
Not really, because in any "top whatever" list, influence and impact on the industry needs to be taken into account.
I disagree, the only time impact on the industry and influence needs to be taken into account is when you are making a "Top X influential/important <genre> games". Otherwise the games should be rated entirely on their own merits, i.e. as a game experience.
The only way to make a "proper" list (that would be highly controversial), is to take someone who plays video games but never played RPGs, make him play all of them, and let him rank them. That is of course virtually impossible, but it would make more sense than ranking higher older games you played when you were longer, because of nostalgia.
And if that experience was revolutionary and innovative for the time, causing dozens of games to imitate it for decades (as is the case with the games I listed) how do you rate that experience over a later game that simply refined the formula it made successful?
The original iPhone is still one of the best consumer electronics devices of all time, even if it's laughably outdated compared to say, the galaxy s3. Give someone both devices, they'll prefer the galaxy no question, but someone aware of the history and context will name the iPhone 1 as the better device, since the galaxy owes it's existence to it.
No one ranks older games higher because of nostalgia. Only children think this. People do however rate them higher because of how revolutionary they were, as they should. A game which took risks, gave players a totally new experience, and changed the gaming world should be rated higher and praised more than a game that just gave you more of the same crap.
And if that experience was revolutionary and innovative for the time, causing dozens of games to imitate it for decades (as is the case with the games I listed) how do you rate that experience over a later game that simply refined the formula it made successful?
The original iPhone is still one of the best consumer electronics devices of all time, even if it's laughably outdated compared to say, the galaxy s3. Give someone both devices, they'll prefer the galaxy no question, but someone aware of the history and context will name the iPhone 1 as the better device, since the galaxy owes it's existence to it.
WTF is this shit!
Panzer Dragoon Saga is not anywhere to be found in the entire list!
are you kidding me?
I have the Saturn version and I don't remember it being particularly challenging ... or remarkable.
Skyrim as the seventh best rpg of all time.....Skyrim.......7........all time......I........
......
.
..
.
...
.
.
.....
What the fuck am I reading!?
Skyrim is better than Morrowind? Even Jade Empire? Mass Effect on 9. lol. Joke list is a joke.
From the three Elder Scrolls games I've seen(III/IV/V), I honestly don't see what makes them special or even remotely innovative. They seem like cookie cutter fantasy RPGs with the most standard aesthetics and gameplay possible, right down to canned animations.
Bloodlines at least tried new things.
Because they're extremely high budget and it's pretty much the only game franchise of that kind that you can put that much money into and actually make money.
By these standards, the top game should have been Ultima 1, despite the fact that it is virtually unplayable now.
The list only consists of games that had been officially released in English.No Vesperia, Skyrim and Oblivion above Morrowind, no Mother 3, worst Mario & Luigi is the only want to place on the list, New Vegas so far down whereas FO3 is so high, what a terrible list.
SE didn't exist when those three games came out. You can say that for Square RPGs, but Enix was something different.FFIV, Chrono Trigger, and FFVI getting the props they deserve.
All three of these games were of high significance that impacted every SE RPG that came out afterward, made serious changes for the company, and continues to be the base for the derivative styles of the preceding games.
There's nothing really wrong with linear game-play and I didn't find the plot predictable, the Zeromus twist was quite surprising so was introducing the underworld and the moon. I really don't know what you mean by barren.predictable plot
trite villain
linear dungeons
non-existing customization
barren world
decent, sure.
top five material, no.
I agree, I find Lost Odyssey more fun than some of the old FFs featured on this list.Uthred said:No it shouldnt, it should only be ranked higher if its a better *game*. If Game X created a new genre ten years ago but Game Y released last year refines that genre to its best expression then Game Y is a better game.
Mass effect 1 being at 9 is a joke.
2 - Chrono Trigger
1 - Final Fantasy VI
Yeah should have been at least 7 or 8.
No it shouldnt, it should only be ranked higher if its a better *game*. If Game X created a new genre ten years ago but Game Y released last year refines that genre to its best expression then Game Y is a better game.
I agree, I find Lost Odyssey more fun than some of the old FFs featured on this list.
IGN posted the top 20:
20) Everquest
19) System Shock 2
18) Dark Souls
17) Earthbound
16) Diablo
15) Secret of Mana
14) Final Fantasy Tactics
13) Planescape Torment
12) Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
11) Final Fantasy VII
10) Fallout 3
9) Mass Effect 1
8) World of Warcraft
7) The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
6) Diablo 2
5) Final Fantasy IV
4) Pokemon Red/Blue
3) Baldur's Gate 2
2) Chrono Trigger
1) Final Fantasy VI
Surprised that Final Fantasy VII missed the top 10, and that Final Fantasy IV made the top 5. Also surprised that Dragon Age Origins and Final Fantasy XII were completely snubbed. I did not expect Diablo 1 or Everquest to show up either. Rest was mostly expected or at least a possibility.
The list only consists of games that had been officially released in English.
Innovation, taking risks, giving gamers a completely new experience is permanently tied into the game's quality. Even though Mario Galaxy 2 improved upon Mario Galaxy 1, I see Mario Galaxy 1 as a higher quality because it made more advances while MG2 gave us more of the same. For the same reason, I'd put Zelda: Ocarina of Time over Twilight Princess.
.
No offence, but its clearly not. If you get a random gamer and have him play two games, one of which was influential but aged badly, the other which may be derivative but is extremely enjoyable he's going to prefer the superior *game*, not the superior phenomenon. Its rather ironic that you insisted no one rates games based on nostalgia and then argue more or less that games should be rated on nostalgia.
Fair enough.
Regarding Vampire Bloodlines, I'm not sure I'd include it in a top list unless we include fan mods and fixes. It would be up to the criteria of selection of course.
Buggy or not, Bloodlines should be on here.
Deserves the top spot way more than FFVI.
Both have been surpassed by modern films and someone coming into movies or books blind would question their merit based on something newer. But just like books and films, making a "best of" requires that influence and innovation be recognized in some sense- i'm not saying it should be ALL that matters, but its something that deserves consideration, just as someone might consider quality of storyline or voice work.
Everquest, really?
There's nothing really wrong with linear game-play and I didn't find the plot predictable, the Zeromus twist was quite surprising so was introducing the underworld and the moon. I really don't know what you mean by barren.