Absolutely primarily a PC gamer. Absolutely find it unbelievable that a console developer would not consider lack of rumble a loss. Not calling it a significant loss. I'm not in the 1st Church of Rumble or anything. But it was clearly a feature of console gaming that had reached ubiquity by the time PS3 rolled around. Having it taken away is a loss, period. Might not be a significant loss. As you imply, PC gaming has gotten along just fine without it. But clearly a loss, and spinning it ANY other way stinks of Sony handling.kaching said:
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Insomniac Chief Creative Officer Brian Hastings speaks out on the PS3
- Thread starter Kittonwy
- Start date
dirtmonkey37
flinging feces ---->
J-Rzez said:
Give me a link. The official announcement of a game like GT5 doesn't go unnoticed.
Still, that wasn't the point of my post. It was to prove that they both have games that consumers want, what's the reason to argue?
But if you want to argue, let's argue.
BlackGoku03
Member
It's a factor beyond their control (Immersion legal debacle). What did you want them to do?Draft said:
With the recent make-up between them and Immersion, I think things will be peachy in the future. I'm not worried about it either way.
What would I expect Sony to do? Spin it. What would I expect an independent developer to do? Express dismay that legal problems are preventing them from implementing what's become a standard feature of console games. Whether it's teensy little bit of dismay or a big whopping sob of dismay is up to the developer, but to come up with, "it gives us more time for other stuff?" Like, for real?BlackGoku03 said:
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
well, it seems pretty clear that peoples console preference leaning is also affecting how they feel about the loss of rumble - one way or the other.
I freely admit that i'm so used to rumble that i don't actively notice it per se. But when it was gone - it was a loss. I'm not saying it's the end of the world, but the loss of the feature is disappointing.
Quote:
are there any other companies complaining about the amount of effort to put in rumble?
well, that all depends - i do find it very very difficult to believe that not having to add rumble makes that much of a difference to be quite honest. And again, i don't buy into anything any company says about hardware that is providing their bread and butter.
We have several developers on here - anyone care to share what their thoughts are on adding rumble? I'd have thought the tools available would have made the job pretty trivial.
ALSO! hold on - didn't JStevenson hint that the code for rumble was in there and , if settled, it might be reactivated??? or am i tripping - in which case....
let me check.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
I basically agree with the guy. Though I'll probably buy a Wii anyway just since it'll have some cool niche Nintendo exclusives. I dont see it taking off in any major kind of way.
Brian Hastings said:
This is pretty pointless. When you are clearly dedicating your products to one and only one pipeline, it is only natural that you would not want to see it fail. If the point is trying to convince us he is objective, that's not going to help much.
Beyond that, none of this stuff (which is all highly debatable) makes a dent on the price.
Most people are fine with the hardware. Most gamers would have no problem playing a PS3 at some point.
But it won't matter until the price is more reasonable. That will probably happen further down the line, when there is also a bigger (better) library. That doesn't help Sony *right now*.
PS3 will be fine and in more homes as time moves on. So it might not be 'number one' any more.
Big deal.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
DCharlie said:
you know what I mean. I'd be surpsied if Wii holds that kind of momentum 3 years from Now once PS3/360 are in their prime and have both seen significant price drops.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
60_gig_PS3 said:
So, we are supposed to forget the asswhipping that Nintendo is laying on Microsoft and Sony on two different continents? Hmmm...........
60_gig_PS3
Banned
DCharlie said:
Yeah with Wii they're doing a good job reaching out to new audiences.
But I feel like once the majority of GAMERS move to a next gen console, it's not going to be Wii.
SouthernDragon
Member
Gamers will go where the games are.
Games tend to be on the dominating console.
Games tend to be on the dominating console.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
DCharlie said:
Self-selection bias. Why would people who miss rumble but like Sony bother to post? Or vice versa?
I've been poo-poo-ing rumble since the Rumble Pack was announced. I've seen only a handful of uses I care for (most recently, UI feedback on the Wii-- that one was really nice).
dirtmonkey37 said:
Listen, I'm not arguing about the 360... I own one, I like the games on it... period... It has good games, otherwise I wouldn't own it if it didn't fit my needs... I'm not one of the people that buy consoles to troll them, I buy what I think is useful and what's appealing to me, thus I have a PS3 and 360......
GT was mentioned before by KY somewhere, and I can't find it... I don't remember if it was here, or GTPlanet... but it was a lil' snippet (not a huge press release, probably since it's commonsense it's coming) saying they were trying for an '08 release of the full game, Prologue for the end of '07...
Ignatz Mouse said:
He's saying some people Pro-Sony won't miss rumble because it's not on their console of choice, while some people Pro-MS will like to over-play it's importance because it's one of the things it has while the PS3 doesnt...
edit, oops, I think I misread you thinking you didn't know what he meant... my bad...
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
seriously, when someone says "i have no link to sony really, we are independent but...."
then lists this :
1. Home & Little Big Planet are amazing and anyone who says they aren't going to be huge are kidding themselves
2. Free Online and the X360 costs $270 so the Ps3 is better because XBL isn't $270 better.
3. Bluray is essential for next experience
4. Casino ****ing Royale
5. HDMI 1.3 no less - buy a new tv !
7. the Wii is a fad
8. The power of Cell
9. PS2 still outselling 360 ... (and the PS3)
+ Rumble? it takes to much time we are glad it's gone!
I'm sorry - this could be a post by ANY sony fanboy on this board.
Given their connection and relationship with Sony (which , of course, isn't a factor apparently!) i'm sorry... this is quite laughable.
It's a shame he didn't add "we should boycott Capcom" for the full ****ing house.
then lists this :
1. Home & Little Big Planet are amazing and anyone who says they aren't going to be huge are kidding themselves
2. Free Online and the X360 costs $270 so the Ps3 is better because XBL isn't $270 better.
3. Bluray is essential for next experience
4. Casino ****ing Royale
5. HDMI 1.3 no less - buy a new tv !
7. the Wii is a fad
8. The power of Cell
9. PS2 still outselling 360 ... (and the PS3)
+ Rumble? it takes to much time we are glad it's gone!
I'm sorry - this could be a post by ANY sony fanboy on this board.
Given their connection and relationship with Sony (which , of course, isn't a factor apparently!) i'm sorry... this is quite laughable.
It's a shame he didn't add "we should boycott Capcom" for the full ****ing house.
Eteric Rice
Member
DCharlie said:
It's kind of pointless to argue with him. Take a look at his name.
Operations
Member
QFT. I couldn't have worded it better. I'm surprised it isn't obvious to many here, though.DCharlie said:
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Sure, games that don't make use of the major exclusive features do well, but considering touchscreen games are still among the best sellers I think it's silly to say that "nobody gives a stinking shit about the touchscreen".Ranger X said:
The price difference hasn't changed much... so I think it's a poor explanation for why the DS exploded while PSP didn't.
It was just a standard part of the experience. I also rarely express that I prefer stereo sound to mono, or color to black and white.kaching said:
QuickKick89
Banned
"OK, this ones going to be controversial, but I have to say it. I like Nintendo a lot."
Is there a rule that states that every anti-Nintendo rant has to start with something resembling this?
Oh yeah, and unbiased my ass.
Is there a rule that states that every anti-Nintendo rant has to start with something resembling this?
Oh yeah, and unbiased my ass.
DCharlie said:
Maybe these things DO make sense to him... Afterall, why should people bash Home when it's free and you don't have to use it? Maybe $50/yr isn't worth it for XBL, I don't think so for how the online gaming isn't as "strong" as it was last gen, and Resistance is the measuring stick for Online gameplay...
So far the only game they made this gen is over the DVD9's capacity, and he states that Rachet WILL surpass that of Resistance... So yes, in his eyes, it's needed... I doubt ANY dev would say "FU, giving us all this space"...
The Casino Royale part is wierd to mention, guess he wanted to stress that Blu-Ray will be more validated to some if it's wrapped up as victorious... Or, people will pick up a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player primary, and game player secondary...
HDMI 1.3 is there for the long term... When you upgrade later on, it's there for you to match up to your new set... Not hard to follow there...
Who knows with the Wii... It's selling like crazy, and probably will for months yet... What's going to happen down the road when people see PS3 and 360 games becoming more and more advanced and while the Wii will as well, it won't be able to catch up?
Cell? Why wouldn't he bring it up? He's speaking from a Dev standpoint, which is more than what you are... If he thinks that from what they've seen that Cell is going to bring new stuff to the table, then so be it... Prove him wrong...
People are still buying up PS2's yet... and based on their experience, when time comes, if they had a great one with it, they'll see their favorites are still there on the PS3 along with some new stuff... So, they had a good experience before, they'll be more than likely to look for the same brand name... This all SHOWS that next-gen launched too soon... Not all of the consumers were ready to move on yet... MS should've waited one more year instead of jumping the gates as their sole move to be a major factor in this gen...
And if they rather TILT to rumble because it offers more of an experience they believe, so be it, and too bad for you... It's their games, they do what they want and feel important, you don't like their opinion on that, don't buy their games...
Did you ever think that maybe reasonable people can come to these conclusions as well and not be fanboy's? Maybe it makes sense to him, and that's his opinion... Too freakin' bad... You don't like it, go put something in your blog then, that'll teach him... and tell the world if they agree to any of those points, as logical as they may seem, you instantly become one that swings from Sony's nuts...
Eteric Rice
Member
Considering the Gamecube alone was never fully utilized in terms of power, I imagine the Wii games will improve, also.
They'll never look as good as the PS3/360 games, but they'll definately be fine.
Eteric Rice said:
Oh, I think they'll be fine eventually on their own, but the problem is putting them side-by-side with the other 2 machines... And not just graphically, but gameplay wise with physics... Can the Wii do the things that, for example, Uncharted is? What about AI wise? It's adding up all the pieces...
DCharlie said:
But is possible he really thinks that way. For what I know, these guys are independent but have a very good relationship with Sony, so they could make a 360 or a Wii game but why bother when you are happy with your publisher?
Insomniac is pretty used to the odd architecture of PS2 and possibly was one of the teams that better profited it. For me it´s ovbius that people as him or Julian from Factor 5 foresee some possibilities on PS3 that they don´t see on other systems, or they would limit themselves to say: "is a great systems and we are happy to work with Sony".
I truly believe that he wrote that because he believes (wrong or not, I don´t know). Is a valuable opinion given he knows the machine and has worked already with it, that alones makes it more interesting that the typical forumer rant, for me at least.
Good thing he didn't spin it any other way then. What are you even arguing about?Draft said:
You'd be giving me a lot of credit for being pretty damn prescient to have spent years not giving a damn about rumble only because I knew this day would comeDCharlie said:
Silence on the subject of rumble is perfect accountability for me, while it's the elephant in the room for anyone who just recently realized what an important facet of their gaming habit it is. Maybe Sony never would have thought they could get away with leaving it out in the first place if gamers spent even half as much time discussing how well rumble was incorporated games as they do bickering over jaggies in screenshots.Nobody said anything about it being a lot of extra effort but the acknowledgment of it by their customers hasn't been commensurate with any level effort that involves doing more than flipping a switch to turn it on. These people are already working long hours as it is - hey, who wants the thankless job of stress-testing the rumble code?
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
well, to get one thing straight - i love Resistance. I was very vocal with my support of the game, and i think Insomniac are one of the best development teams out here.
i just feel that his list was simply a collection of every fanboy bitch so far to date and i just find it a little too convenient that someone without ties to Sony (!) would come up with that exact list - and ESPECIALLY someone in this guys position and even more so after trying to justify that they don't really have any special relationship with sony.
So no - frankly - if someone with no link to sony feels the need to come up with a list as to why sonys machine is better and then produces _that_ list, then no - i have a hard time believing this is anything other than a 'drive behind our boys!' and not something he reached as his own independent un-sony-related opinion.
perhaps - but you can all thank us habitual complainers for getting Sony to get off their arse and getting rumble back for you guys!
do they get much customer feed back on things like 30fps, texture quality etc though? Again, this is a weird argument - "no one mentioned that they liked rumble so it's okay to ditch it"? I mean - you're surprised that i like rumble - i for one had NEVER thought about registering the fact that i like rumble in games until it was taken away , and i'm sure i'm not alone. It was just a totally standard feature and i was surprised when it didn't show up in the PS controller.
Seriously - i have no idea how much extra effort it would take a team of this size to add rumble, but i'm guessing that the added effort would be minimal. I think we are at an impass here - i don't believe this for a second, and you believe it totally.
ok, so how about getting bungie and rare to tell us how much better the 360 is than the ps3? :lol
jeez sometimes people do strange things on the internets.....
tell us about the new engine you are working on for rachet insomniac. thats your line of stuff to communicate!
leave the rest to sdf
jeez sometimes people do strange things on the internets.....
tell us about the new engine you are working on for rachet insomniac. thats your line of stuff to communicate!
leave the rest to sdf
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
well , next gen rumble would be fantastic for sure - but most of you guys switch it off anyways because it gives you bad wrists, so it might be wasted on you!
and god forbid the extra development time for those poor developers
- how will they find the time? DCharlie said:well , next gen rumble would be fantastic for sure - but most of you guys switch it off anyways because it gives you bad wrists, so it might be wasted on you!
and god forbid the extra development time for those poor developers
haptic-rumble ...outsourcing FTW? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Eteric Rice
Member
J-Rzez said:
No matter how advanced the technology a system has, it will always be limited by two things.
1. Time
2. Budget
Advanced AI and physics take time, and the more time you use, the more money you burn. So even with all this technology, chances are that most companies won't be able to use it all. Say, for instance, that Rockstar makes a GTA game with a city the size of New York. That alone takes up a lot of time, now try populating that city.
I was actually pondering this the other day. We can keep advancing AI, but how far "should" a developer take it? Can you make an enemy so hard, that it just down right pisses the player off to even play that game? If we keep making game worlds bigger, will they get so big that it's tedius to play them?
Anyway, I think AI wise, the Wii will be fine. I'm not sure about physics, but not all games use them in a major way.
WickedLaharl
Member
shit apparently i f'd up by not expressing my love for rumble publicly. i was part of the problem!
Ploid 3.0
Member
Rumble is ok, on ps2 I turned it off for games that use it a lot. In FFXII pretty much everything annoyed me with the rumble. If all rumbles were soft and low level it wouldn't bother me much. So far none of the people that played fight night on my ps3 mention a lack of rumble. I would have probably turned it off (FN & VF5). I understand the wheel tension is important.
This guy seemed pretty disgusted at the media's behavior towards PS3. There can be no good news concerning it. I'm pretty sure he said his blog entry was to show what he feels are the good things about the console. Things the media fail to bring up for whatever reason.
From reading the forums lately I've noticed that nothing good can be said about ps3 without a group to counter the news. PS3 has HDMI? Where's the HDMI cord? PS3 can play blue ray? Who wants to wach movies (screw 50gig storage. Disable movie playback). Europe launch, It's described as a disaster by most media. Later we find reports of very good sales, and not just in UK.
This guy seemed pretty disgusted at the media's behavior towards PS3. There can be no good news concerning it. I'm pretty sure he said his blog entry was to show what he feels are the good things about the console. Things the media fail to bring up for whatever reason.
From reading the forums lately I've noticed that nothing good can be said about ps3 without a group to counter the news. PS3 has HDMI? Where's the HDMI cord? PS3 can play blue ray? Who wants to wach movies (screw 50gig storage. Disable movie playback). Europe launch, It's described as a disaster by most media. Later we find reports of very good sales, and not just in UK.
WickedAngel
Banned
The thread title should be changed.
"Insomniac Chief Creative Officer Brian Hastings speaks out on the PS3 (...and says exactly what everyone expected him to say.)"
"Insomniac Chief Creative Officer Brian Hastings speaks out on the PS3 (...and says exactly what everyone expected him to say.)"
the thoroughbred
Member
Ok, On another note. I have been playing Resistance lately. Last 2 days straight.
The game looks like shit. There isn't any effort been put into this game what so ever. Or as I like to call it artistic vision. The aliens look shit. The physics are crap (Zelda was way better, probably generation defining). The effects don't look llike anything new. The only thing this game had going for it; was a good story, co-op mode, some relatively large areas. Its the only game my friend bought, and he and I have been playing it for ages. Him being a Sony fan, keeps going on about how its the first batch of games and that they will get better. I don't deny that, but its not the point.
Loading times were terrible, entire snacks were had in these voids of time. Hardware wise, it looks very good, very well made, and quite silent too. Much more silent than the PS2.
I must admit, I have had quite a good time enjoying the co-op mode. But we could have beem much more immersed in another game, had it co-op mode. Someone will undoubtedly ccome along and do this better. And try and make use of some of those cores.
The game looks like shit. There isn't any effort been put into this game what so ever. Or as I like to call it artistic vision. The aliens look shit. The physics are crap (Zelda was way better, probably generation defining). The effects don't look llike anything new. The only thing this game had going for it; was a good story, co-op mode, some relatively large areas. Its the only game my friend bought, and he and I have been playing it for ages. Him being a Sony fan, keeps going on about how its the first batch of games and that they will get better. I don't deny that, but its not the point.
Loading times were terrible, entire snacks were had in these voids of time. Hardware wise, it looks very good, very well made, and quite silent too. Much more silent than the PS2.
I must admit, I have had quite a good time enjoying the co-op mode. But we could have beem much more immersed in another game, had it co-op mode. Someone will undoubtedly ccome along and do this better. And try and make use of some of those cores.
More the case he saying exactly what the PR guys at SCE would like him to say. In fact I bet he sent copy there before it got anywhere near his blog. Really I can't understand why people are making issue out of this, its just PR. And Monk in Europe the PS3 didn't sell out, you can get it easily in most European countries.