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Is it wrong to tell a SO you need more from the relationship before marriage?

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Sounds like how my 3 year, 6 month relationship went.. I would say to just find somebody else/go single from what you said. It's just not worth going through.

At least for me, after it was over, I started realizing the many things I could have done in that time if it just had ended earlier (for good)
 

Dad

Member
 

mkenyon

Banned
She says that I need to move past it, and move forward. She says she went to therapy, she wends on the meds, she has tried to better herself for the sake of our relationship and her good-faith attempts are never good enough. I alway have to prove myself blah blah. I'm tired of it and can't be constantly reminded of how and why I'm not good enough. She is sorry for what she has done and regrets it but she thinks it's time that we move on and take the leap together or go our separate ways.
Gotta ask yourself if the juice is worth the squeeze.

This one is gonna be a lot of work, and likely won't end well. But people do change, and things can get better. Even then, you're going to have ups and downs, and likely far more downs than the typical couple.

If you love her and want to help her work through everything, as well as help craft what you see as your ideal relationship, then keep at it. Sounds like she's at least open to working on her own self.

I'd still say it sounds like this is a doomed prospect though.
 

Keri

Member
She says that I need to move past it, and move forward. She says she went to therapy, she wends on the meds, she has tried to better herself for the sake of our relationship and her good-faith attempts are never good enough. I alway have to prove myself blah blah. I'm tired of it and can't be constantly reminded of how and why I'm not good enough. She is sorry for what she has done and regrets it but she thinks it's time that we move on and take the leap together or go our separate ways.

Well, how do you feel about all that? If it's true she's been to therapy and is on medication now, it does sound like she's done a lot to try to make things better, but it's obvious that you're still not comfortable. How long has it been since the last break-up? What do you want to see, to feel you're more stable? Is there something else you'd want her to do?
 

brawly

Member
Do want to marry someone? Leave her. Do you not want to marry period/are you happy with how things are now? Tell her that.
 

JB1981

Member
Gotta ask yourself if the juice is worth the squeeze.

This one is gonna be a lot of work, and likely won't end well. But people do change, and things can get better. Even then, you're going to have ups and downs, and likely far more downs than the typical couple.

If you love her and want to help her work through everything, as well as help craft what you see as your ideal relationship, then keep at it. Sounds like she's at least open to working on her own self.

I'd still say it sounds like this is a doomed prospect though.

I do love her and I would like to help her get better but even after her apparent suicide attempt it still hasn't registered for her just how unhealthy some of her habits are. The therapist she was seeing before the suicide attempt later referred her to a substance abuse counseler. She is still drinking wine every night. She now takes hits of weed in the basement pretty much every night before bed. And I can't point any of this out to her because she doesn't want to hear it. She doesn't think it's a big deal.

Instead of continuing to drink to excess (which she does often) and hitting the bowl, she should be exercising, changing her diet, getting a good nights sleep etc. If I say things like this she will basically roll her eyes. She can't hear me say things like this because all she hears from my mouth is I'M A PIECE OF SHIT. I'M A PIECE OF SHIT.
 
Marriage might not be for you. If you expect constant physical attention and overact to intimate-lulls, you're in for a nasty ride.
 
Goddamn, JB1981, is that really you? Thought you would know better than this shit. Bail the fuck out man. Thank me in 6 months or a year or so when you found the person you actually want to marry.

Marrying her isn't going magically fix all of this you know? The only thing that will ensure is that you're going to be stuck in that hell forever.
 

Chorazin

Member
I do love her and I would like to help her get better but even after her apparent suicide attempt it still hasn't registered for her just how unhealthy some of her habits are. The therapist she was seeing before the suicide attempt later referred her to a substance abuse counseler. She is still drinking wine every night. She now takes hits of weed in the basement pretty much every night before bed. And I can't point any of this out to her because she doesn't want to hear it. She doesn't think it's a big deal.

Instead of continuing to drink to excess (which she does often) and hitting the bowl, she should be exercising, changing her diet, getting a good nights sleep etc. If I say things like this she will basically roll her eyes. She can't hear me say things like this because all she hears from my mouth is I'M A PIECE OF SHIT. I'M A PIECE OF SHIT.

Then get the fuck out dude.

GET.

THE.

FUCK.

OUT.
 

Keri

Member
Instead of continuing to drink to excess (which she does often) and hitting the bowl, she should be exercising, changing her diet, getting a good nights sleep etc. If I say things like this she will basically roll her eyes. She can't hear me say things like this because all she hears from my mouth is I'M A PIECE OF SHIT. I'M A PIECE OF SHIT.

Well, if she's not getting help with her substance abuse problems and you've tried talking to her about it, you're at an impasse. All you can do is tell her that you're not ready to get married, while these problems persist and urge her to see the substance abuse counselor she was referred to. If getting married now is a deal breaker for her, then it's time to move on.
 

skynidas

Banned
I do love her and I would like to help her get better but even after her apparent suicide attempt it still hasn't registered for her just how unhealthy some of her habits are. The therapist she was seeing before the suicide attempt later referred her to a substance abuse counseler. She is still drinking wine every night. She now takes hits of weed in the basement pretty much every night before bed. And I can't point any of this out to her because she doesn't want to hear it. She doesn't think it's a big deal.

Instead of continuing to drink to excess (which she does often) and hitting the bowl, she should be exercising, changing her diet, getting a good nights sleep etc. If I say things like this she will basically roll her eyes. She can't hear me say things like this because all she hears from my mouth is I'M A PIECE OF SHIT. I'M A PIECE OF SHIT.

damn. I'm sorry man but that's too much. You should try to get away from that relationship.
 

Seirith

Member
I do love her and I would like to help her get better but even after her apparent suicide attempt it still hasn't registered for her just how unhealthy some of her habits are. The therapist she was seeing before the suicide attempt later referred her to a substance abuse counseler. She is still drinking wine every night. She now takes hits of weed in the basement pretty much every night before bed. And I can't point any of this out to her because she doesn't want to hear it. She doesn't think it's a big deal.

Instead of continuing to drink to excess (which she does often) and hitting the bowl, she should be exercising, changing her diet, getting a good nights sleep etc. If I say things like this she will basically roll her eyes. She can't hear me say things like this because all she hears from my mouth is I'M A PIECE OF SHIT. I'M A PIECE OF SHIT.

This is HER issue not yours. You cannot FIX her issues. If you want to marry this girl and spend the rest of your life with her and her with you, you BOTH should be able to listen to the other person while being rational. It doesn't mean she is going to agree with everything she says but refusing to listen to your SO and just saying i'm a piece of shit is wrong.

She is drinking and doing drugs WITH A SMALL MINOR CHILD IN HER CARE!! She is reckless and irresponsible.
 
Dump anyone that issues an ultimatum. People can express things that matter to them, but as soon as it becomes an ultimatum they're trying to manipulate you out of your freedom and thus aren't seeing you as a person anymore.

Find someone that doesn't have borderline personality disorder and doesn't need to go through years and years of therapy before they can be in a functional interdependent relationship.
 

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
Her argument is that the ring is a promise of a future together and if I can't commit to a future with her after being together for 3 years then I will never be ready. She said we don't have to get married right away, we could put it off a year even, but she will not move in with me without a ring. She even offered to pay for the ring with me if I didn't have the money. Fuck, she went to the jewelry store like 3 times already and had the ring picked out.
Wrong way round I'm afraid.

I've been in a relationship for 3 years and lived together for 2 and a quarter. We will get married at some point but we know that it's nothing that will change our relationship, only confirm it officially.

We have a 4 week old little girl together and while our relationship isn't perfect ( Is anyone's?) we both feel living together has provided the basis for a child together and a long lasting relationship.

A ring changes nothing. Actually getting on, living together and building a relationship through that is the key to a successful relationship in my honest opinion. That is the commitment she needs, even if she doesn't realise it. Take her to relationship counselling and hope that she can see it that way. Getting married won't help either of you.
 
You should break up with her OP.

I went through the same thing with my ex of 7 years and it took a 2 1/2 year break up and 11 months of zero communication for us to be in a place in which we want to give it a shot again. She and I are completely different people now and I am sure that's because of time/ space and dating other people.

If you stay, you will never be certain of where she stands and she will continue to vacillate between wanting to be with you and not. As long as you remain emotionally and physically accessible to her she will never fully appreciate the possibility of losing you forever.
 

Keri

Member
Dump anyone that issues an ultimatum. People can express things that matter to them, but as soon as it becomes an ultimatum they're trying to manipulate you out of your freedom and thus aren't seeing you as a person anymore.

I don't think that last part is true. There's nothing wrong with a person saying: "I need this or I have to move on." You shouldn't give in to an ultimatum, just out of a fear of losing someone, but you can't hold it against them, for expressly stating their needs. Honestly, it's probably best to get deal-breakers out in the open, so everyone can assess their feelings and then part ways, if it can't work.

In this instance, marriage might be the ultimatum offered by the OP's girlfriend, but his ultimatum might be: "Get help for your substance abuse or I have to leave." There's nothing really wrong with either, it's just the way things are.
 

TheBear

Member
JB. What are we doing here buddy? What is it you need from this collection of people here to tell you. To leave? To stay? You already know the answer.

The rest is up to you. I wish you the best of luck.
 
I do love her and I would like to help her get better but even after her apparent suicide attempt it still hasn't registered for her just how unhealthy some of her habits are. The therapist she was seeing before the suicide attempt later referred her to a substance abuse counseler. She is still drinking wine every night. She now takes hits of weed in the basement pretty much every night before bed. And I can't point any of this out to her because she doesn't want to hear it. She doesn't think it's a big deal.

Instead of continuing to drink to excess (which she does often) and hitting the bowl, she should be exercising, changing her diet, getting a good nights sleep etc. If I say things like this she will basically roll her eyes. She can't hear me say things like this because all she hears from my mouth is I'M A PIECE OF SHIT. I'M A PIECE OF SHIT.

Before I was on team "Probably doomed, dont play her games but maybe stick around to see how she reacts when you plant your feet."

Now I'm full on team "Get the fuck out like your ass is on fire."

You're going to be so damn happy you left when you start your next relationship. You're gunna look back and wonder how you managed to stick around as long as you have already. The memory is going to make you feel like an idiot (I know from experience).

You already know this is bad but you dont want to believe it because believing it means hard decisions and uncertainty. Uncertainty is uncomfortable but it's also exciting because it means new opportunities. You have no obligation to stay on this path. It is not your path, it's just a path. Go find a happier one. Your future girlfriend is out there waiting for you to get your shit together.
 

SaganIsGOAT

Junior Member
Don't get married yet. Based on your history give it another 3 years at least to feel it out if you want to stay with this girl. I straight up told my girlfriend don't expect me to want marriage for at least 6 years into our relationship. Marriage is so final in many ways and I think there is nothing wrong with holding off.
 

Seirith

Member
Her argument is that the ring is a promise of a future together and if I can't commit to a future with her after being together for 3 years then I will never be ready. She said we don't have to get married right away, we could put it off a year even, but she will not move in with me without a ring. She even offered to pay for the ring with me if I didn't have the money. Fuck, she went to the jewelry store like 3 times already and had the ring picked out.

A ring is just a piece of jewelry, it does not make you and more or less committed to her and a ring does not mean you will be together forever.

If you had 3 drama free years with no break ups would you be ready to marry her?
 

Tagyhag

Member
some of you are so ridiculous just saying "bail out now!" in every relationship thread. maybe from your unattached point of view this seems easy, but you have no idea how much he cares for this person and how much it would hurt to do.

I do love her and I would like to help her get better but even after her apparent suicide attempt it still hasn't registered for her just how unhealthy some of her habits are. The therapist she was seeing before the suicide attempt later referred her to a substance abuse counseler. She is still drinking wine every night. She now takes hits of weed in the basement pretty much every night before bed. And I can't point any of this out to her because she doesn't want to hear it. She doesn't think it's a big deal.

Instead of continuing to drink to excess (which she does often) and hitting the bowl, she should be exercising, changing her diet, getting a good nights sleep etc. If I say things like this she will basically roll her eyes. She can't hear me say things like this because all she hears from my mouth is I'M A PIECE OF SHIT. I'M A PIECE OF SHIT.

BRUH
 
I don't think that last part is true. There's nothing wrong with a person saying: "I need this or I have to move on." You shouldn't give in to an ultimatum, just out of a fear of losing someone, but you can't hold it against them, for expressly stating their needs. Honestly, it's probably best to get deal-breakers out in the open, so everyone can assess their feelings and then part ways, if it can't work.

In this instance, marriage might be the ultimatum offered by the OP's girlfriend, but his ultimatum might be: "Get help for your substance abuse or I have to leave." There's nothing really wrong with either, it's just the way things are.

I think you can say that you need someone to do something, but I don't think you can impress on them any more than that. When you say "I need you to do this" you don't want them to do it out of fear of losing you, you just want them to see the necessity of it for the right reasons. It's maybe generalizing too much, but I think the added threat not only is unnecessary but undermines the purpose. If someone changes only in response to a threat it is questionable whether the change was sincere. So I see it as mostly a manipulation tactic.
 

JB1981

Member
A ring is just a piece of jewelry, it does not make you and more or less committed to her and a ring does not mean you will be together forever.

If you had 3 drama free years with no break ups would you be ready to marry her?

I believe I would be yea because I want to get married and have kids
 

derder

Member
I think you should move in together before considering proposing. If that doesn't fit your timetable, then you should bail out.
 

Beardz

Member
Couples counseling or bail out.

Why? If it doesn't work, then doesn't work.

What was the last time you needed counseling for fixing your friendship with your best friend?

Marriages don't then to work because we have false expectations about it, and about our partner.

I'ts obvious for the OP that he should bail now.
 
I remember when I ended up in what was an essentially abusive relationship because my partner consistently made allusions towards suicide if things were ever to completely hit the fan.

Getting out of that relationship was the best thing I ever did, and as it turns out it managed to send her on the right track towards a better state of mind too.
 
The memory is going to make you feel like an idiot (I know from experience).

Yes. On the other hand, it's sometimes difficult leaving someone in that state, because you're afraid of what they might do to themselves. Do you have any counseling resources you can speak to to get perspective on how to best manage that?

I had an employee who was suicidal, including ideation, and I'll always remember telling my uncle who was a death row psychologist about it. "The first thing to remember is, it's not your fault."
 

Tater

Member
It's always easy for people on forums to go with "lol, dump that person" since they don't have to deal with the hurt and drama that go along with ending a relationship.

That being said, you've been very fair, and her demand is quite ridiculous.

At best, she's legitimately hopeful that a proposal will give her the motivation she needs to stay committed. At worst, she's setting you up to support her for years.

Depending on your state laws, you could end up supporting her for quite a while if she changes her mind and decides to leave you again. Are you confident enough in your relationship to trust her like that?

I would advise against moving in if you're not sure about her. It's very easy to get caught in the "relationship escalator" when your lives get more and more intertwined, and you let the momentum carry you to marriage, rather than making a choice.

I finished my divorce a little while ago, but I'm still recovering. Even though I did pretty well in the separation, it still took quite a bit of money/time/stress out of my prime that I'll never get back.

Please think long and hard about this choice, and don't let her pressure you into something you don't want to do.
 
She says that I need to move past it, and move forward. She says she went to therapy, she wends on the meds, she has tried to better herself for the sake of our relationship and her good-faith attempts are never good enough. "I alway have to prove myself!" blah blah. "I'm tired of it and can't be constantly reminded of how and why I'm not good enough." She is sorry for what she has done and regrets it but she thinks it's time that we move on and take the leap together or go our separate ways.

Sounds like you know where this is going and you're just hoping for another way. I don't want to jump on the bandwagon and say you should leave immediately but this relationship doesn't sound healthy. I've been there before in a similar situation and even went so far as to get engaged.

I then realised how I had been abused on multiple levels (mainly emotionally) and basically felt forced into getting married. I decided I wasn't going to fuck up my life, I called it off and left her as cruel as that sounds. It was the best decision of my life. I escaped a toxic relationship and since have improved immeasurably as a person. I met the most amazing girl and will soon be getting married to her.
 

bounchfx

Member
just want to chime in to agree with a majority of the posters.

do not fucking do it. don't. It's not even remotely close to a healthy relationship from the sound of it, and future-you does not want the problems that will arise.
 

IISANDERII

Member
The thing is when I point this out to her it doesn't even register with her. It's like talking to the wall. I get nowhere.

In fairness to her, she did seek therapy and went for a little while but she hasn't taken any of the recommendations she was given. She still drinks all the time. Now she has taken up smoking weed almost daily. She hasnt gotten better, she's actually gotten WORSE despite the meds and the therapy. It's fucking weird
No, it isn't weird. She has you under her thumb so she has no reason to change. You talking to her has no value because your words are only words and are not backed up by action.

If they were, you wouldn't ask the questions you're asking.
"need to feel more loved and wanted, and to desire more stability in the relationship"
"is it not fair that I ask my SO to consider what my wants and needs are before marriage"
"Why does she want to get married so urgently"

Asking all the wrong questions. You should be asking yourself some questions, like "What's wrong with me that I tolerate this?", "is my self worth so abysmal that I fear I can do no better than an alcoholic drug addict who can't even get better for her small child?"
 

TDLink

Member
I don't know why this topic is still going. You know what you have to do and only a fool would suggest otherwise.

Do not marry her. Break up with her immediately. 3 years is a long time but not too long to cut your losses. There are plenty of other women out there who are going to be way more stable, not have substance abuse problems or suicidal tendencies, and will actually care about you being happy.

Do you want to be happy? Then listen to literally everyone in this topic.
 

NotBacon

Member
By that I mean, I need to feel more loved and wanted, and to desire more stability in the relationship. Is it wrong to ask someone this and hope that things can get better or should you just not be in such a relationship to begin with.

Long story short, I have been with my girl for about 3 years and our relationship has been very up and down. We have broken up probably a dozen times, mostly because she never knew what she wanted. She was in, she was out, she loved me, she hated me, she wanted space, she wanted me back. Surely a lot of this is my fault for even going back and allowing someone to treat me like a fucking yo-yo but it is what it is and its in the past. Now fast forward to year 3 and after her getting some therapy and an extended break up she tells me that she wants to get married, that's she ready to move the relationship forward. And I told her that I actually was not ready for that, that I need to see some stability long-term before we take that step. I offered to move in with her and work on building toward marriage, but she will not hear a word of it.

She wants to get married NOW and she has "nothing more to give" in terms of showing her love and affection for me. I suppose after writing this all out that there are a ton of red flags here and I do believe that I am representing things fairly accurately. I guess my question to you guys is this, is it not fair that I ask my SO to consider what my wants and needs are before marriage. If there are things lacking in our relationship, is it permissible for me to point those things out and ask her to work on them or am I being totally unfair to her and asking her to be someone she is not. Thanks

lolwut
 

Prologue

Member
You're childless, She has a kid, smokes/drinks every night and is giving you lip about being asked to move in?


You're the one doing her a favor, considering her circumstances. Count your blessings that she's not pregnant and cut your losses. You can do so much better than that. Is that really the best you think you can do?
 

YourMaster

Member
I would personally advise against getting blackmailed into marriage. I would also advise against marriage before living together. And I would also advice against pursuing any long term relationship where there are taboos that cannot be talked about.

If you are currently happy with the situation, you can offer to keep it as it is. If you want to move in together, feel free to do so. If she decides to leave you if you're only happy with these two alternatives, that's on her. That just means she does not value the relationship enough, and is another reason not to get married.
 
Seems real unstable setup and a bad way to enter into a lifetime contract

Especially if you then decide on a divorce you can lose half your income or worse if kids are added to the mix
 
OP, you are in an abusive relationship. Your also hooked on the sunk cost fallacy. Where you think becuase all the things you have done to support her would have been a waste of time if you dont end up "fixing" her. What you are actually doing is enabling her behaviour and what you think was her hitting rock bottom really wasnt as all her enablers came round to fix her problems again

You love her, it will hurt to break up. You know why it hurts? Because its worth it.
 
I listened to every one but myself and rushed into a marriage. It ended in 5 years. You have to have no doubts before jumping the broom. The marriage won't solve it.
 
I couldn't imagine marrying someone I hadn't lived with for at least a year or two. I think you're crazy based on that alone, ignoring the other warning signs you're posting OP.

The heart wants what it wants but try to listen to your head or gut here. Currently she has the power position and is clearly fobbing you off for how she alone wants things to play out. That's not what a marriage is about IMO. If you're fine with that submissive position for the rest of your life then go be happy, if you're not then now is your chance to change the course of things and shift to a balance of power.

If that all blows up in your faces then you've dodged a marriage/mortgage/kids spray of bullets. If you can't stand your ground in a relationship and have your partner respect that neither of you are ready to marry. If it all goes well over the next year or so of living together then best of luck to ya.
 
D

Deleted member 465307

Unconfirmed Member
Edit: Nevermind.

OP, it sounds like you know what you need to do.
 

Azriell

Member
It's corny and cliche as fuck but you have the right to be happy in your relationship, whatever happy means to you within reason. You are being reasonable, and anyone who responds to "I need to feel more loved/secure/wanted/appreciated" by saying "sorry I can't give you any more" is someone who doesn't really give a fuck.

Also, the past definitely predicts the future in relationships. This sort of chaotic behavior isn't going to go away with a lot of willingness to change (and hard work) on her part, and despite what she has said it's clear that she hasn't changed. GTFO OP.
 
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