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Is it wrong to tell a SO you need more from the relationship before marriage?

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If you want a miserable marriage that will lead to divorce and you having to go through hell over the next few years, sure marry her. You should have been out of this relationship a while ago, you need to stop fearing a lonely future and get some confidence, put your foot down, and move on. Stop letting her bully you into being in a one sided selfish relationship.
 


It's comin'. Dodge it if you can.

LOL
 

Keri

Member
Why does she want to get married so urgently? It's not like I'm rich and can take care of all her problems? Don't you want to "get married" because you finally found someone you love? This feels like a "insert man here" thing to me

I think "marriage" has become a symbol of something larger, at this point. When you tell her you're not ready to get married, she's probably interpreting it as you saying you're done with the relationship or she's interpreting it as an indication you don't think she's worthy of marriage. She's pushing for it, in response to these negative interpretations. If "marriage" means love and respect and not getting married means "I don't really care about you and I'm hoping to find someone better," it's not surprising that she's trying to push you into agreeing to marriage. Definitely don't rush into marriage, but if you want a chance to salvage things, you need to try to talk her out of this idea.
 

Llyranor

Member
Sounds like you're only in the relationship because of the kid, which is an awful reason to stay in a relationship. I feel awful for the kid, but that is not a reason to marry someone.
 
It really is sad. I didn't get married until I was 28, and even then my wife and I lived together for three years before doing so.

Likewise. 27, and lived together 5. Compatibility *needs* to exist. OP's situation, even without the sketchy "marry me NOW" thing, does not demonstrate that.
 

JB1981

Member
OP, I just have to ask, why have you kept going back to her after a dozen or so breakups?

Great question. Even though she has her flaws, she is also a very fun person and we hit it off as soon as we met. We also had a great sex life and I very much cared about her daughter.
 
A couple comments about the comments here:

1- You're never going to be "100% on the same page" as some people are claiming for marriage, absurd idea.
2- Be mentally ready for the massive guilt-trip she's gonna lay on you when you (hopefully) breakup

yup and yup. and its important to understand youre obviously not happy with the relationship, you can be a little selfish here.
 
Great question. Even though she has her flaws, she is also a very fun person and we hit it off as soon as we met. We also had a great sex life and I very much cared about her daughter.

but is this just getting together or are you getting together after addressing the issues that caused you to break up in the first place?

id HOPE if she dumped you cause she needed space and then just said "i dont need space now" you werent just like WELP WELCOME BACK
 

JB1981

Member
I think "marriage" has become a symbol of something larger, at this point. When you tell her you're not ready to get married, she's probably interpreting it as you saying you're done with the relationship or she's interpreting it as an indication you don't think she's worthy of marriage. She's pushing for it, in response to these negative interpretations. If "marriage" means love and respect and not getting married means "I don't really care about you and I'm hoping to find someone better," it's not surprising that she's trying to push you into agreeing to marriage. Definitely don't rush into marriage, but if you want a chance to salvage things, you need to try to talk her out of this idea.

Great insight. Her argument is that I am not ready to get married because she is not good enough for me, and I think there might be something better out there. I will not deny that this has not crossed my mind. At the same time I also feel like the relationship would be salvageable if she would just listen to what some of my needs are. She doesn't want to do that because some of that involves pointing the finger back at herself and she can't bear to face that. She would rather let the relationship go before ever taking a hard look at herself.
 

therapist

Member
sounds like a big no man , red flags everywhere

honestly just from your description i dont see why you've even contemplating this.

How old are you two?
 
Great insight. Her argument is that I am not ready to get married because she is not good enough for me, and I think there might be something better out there. I will not deny that this has not crossed my mind. At the same time I also feel like the relationship would be salvageable if she would just listen to what some of my needs are. She doesn't want to do that because some of that involves pointing the finger back at herself and she can't bear to face that. She would rather let the relationship go before ever taking a hard look at herself.

i mean, bro, i could read this post as someone looking back and reflecting on a relationship they knew wasnt working out and already ended it.

you dont need gaf. you already know what you really want here i think
 

Chorazin

Member
Great insight. Her argument is that I am not ready to get married because she is not good enough for me, and I think there might be something better out there. I will not deny that this has not crossed my mind. At the same time I also feel like the relationship would be salvageable if she would just listen to what some of my needs are. She doesn't want to do that because some of that involves pointing the finger back at herself and she can't bear to face that. She would rather let the relationship go before ever taking a hard look at herself.

A person who can't see their own failings and work on fixing them is not the person you want to be legally tied to for a very long time.
 
Great insight. Her argument is that I am not ready to get married because she is not good enough for me, and I think there might be something better out there. I will not deny that this has not crossed my mind. At the same time I also feel like the relationship would be salvageable if she would just listen to what some of my needs are. She doesn't want to do that because some of that involves pointing the finger back at herself and she can't bear to face that.She would rather let the relationship go before ever taking a hard look at herself.

Sounds like both of you know deep down that marriage should not be on the table. It sucks there's a kid that you've formed an emotional bond with in the mix, but hard decisions will have to be made.
 

JB1981

Member
JB, Reread this sentence, just this sentence, and tell me if it isn't ridiculously clear just how well marrying this woman would work out.

The thing is when I point this out to her it doesn't even register with her. It's like talking to the wall. I get nowhere.

In fairness to her, she did seek therapy and went for a little while but she hasn't taken any of the recommendations she was given. She still drinks all the time. Now she has taken up smoking weed almost daily. She hasnt gotten better, she's actually gotten WORSE despite the meds and the therapy. It's fucking weird
 

Tagyhag

Member
I offered to move in with her and work on building toward marriage, but she will not hear a word of it.
She wants to get married NOW and she has "nothing more to give" in terms of showing her love and affection for me.
We have broken up probably a dozen times, mostly because she never knew what she wanted
Surely a lot of this is my fault for even going back and allowing someone to treat me like a fucking yo-yo
. I suppose after writing this all out that there are a ton of red flags here

Wake THE FUCK up
 

Seirith

Member
The thing is when I point this out to her it doesn't even register with her. It's like talking to the wall. I get nowhere.

In fairness to her, she did seek therapy and went for a little while but she hasn't taken any of the recommendations she was given. She still drinks all the time. Now she has taken up smoking weed almost daily. She has gotten better, she's actually gotten WORSE despite the meds and the therapy. It's fucking weird

DO NOT MARRY HER. She is NOT stable, you may lover her and her child but she is NOT stable enough to be married. Also, she has broken up with you before and then wanted you back, why do you assume she would not want to marry you now and in 2 weeks not want to marry you?
 
Why does she want to get married so urgently? It's not like I'm rich and can take care of all her problems? Don't you want to "get married" because you finally found someone you love? This feels like a "insert man here" thing to me

Personally I think a lot of the time, the desire to get married and/or have kids can stem from the idea that things will be better. It's an irrational feeling, but it's one that many of us probably understand, albeit with different things.

Things will be better when I get that car. Things will be better when I get the promotion. When I get the new Xbox. Things will be better when X and Y, are ways we look forward, and for people who are not certain what they want, or why they are unhappy it can be a powerful behavioral tool.
I have a friend who is clinically depressed, has been unemployed for years, have anxiety and difficulty leaving the house, and he desperately wants a kid because he says that is what he needs and then things will be great. That will be what will whip him into shape.
I've questioned my friend if the lifestyle changes he desires by bringing in a child into the world (which is an enormous responsibility) is the consequence he needs to seek a better life and to fight his demon.
He admitted to me that he didn't want to die alone and since he was 35 and felt he was getting old, and his GF was the same age, this would be the last chance for him to be a father.
We all have ideas from childhood and later in where we have shaped an internal idea of what we desire. Sometimes we forget it when growing into adulthood and subconsciously are responding in seemingly strange ways to move towards that goal, but sometimes that is counter-productive. You see people self-sabotage themselves in their lives because they are afraid of what they really want, or they don't know what they want. / The Notebook-ish "what do you want? What the fuck do you want!?" and she hilariously cannot spill the beans what she wants. Aimless, uncertain and directionless can be a mental torture and make you propelled to do things on the fly. From getting a burger king tattoo on the tip of your dick ("the king") to getting married to getting a pit bull to having a disgusting orgy with 3 insane clown pose members at a handicap toilet at a festival.
When I read this thread I was thinking about those pop songs like Katy Perry Hot'n Cold and perhaps almost all of Taylor Swifts discography. And I don't think this is that uncommon. I don't think manufactured drama is all that rare. I think a massive group of people thrive and live their relationships on drama. the good and the bad times, with expectations feeling up every nook and cranny because of these expectations. This is what I want, this is what I deserve, this is what I expect, and anyone who says otherwise is a red flag wearing son of a bitch who can get fucked and put down behind the barn.


I've never heard of someone asking someone else for more love and then feeling that it has been given. You are not being given love. It's given to you. Involuntarily of you and them. Love is not a valve you turn and off. You don't decide who you are affectious towards.
That is why you see the most amazing people being hopeless in love with people who are objective and quantifyingly undeserving and unappreciative of their love in accordance to what they give back. No relationship is ever 1:1 on what is being given and taken, and if it is, then I'd have to think that people are giving and taking based on what the other person gives and take.
If people love you, they will love you. Look at their actions for how they feel. that's what dictates how they feel about you. Nobody will give you more love in asking for it. It's akin to walking up to a random person and asking them to please fall in love with you. < This is of course talking about romantic love. The brain chemistry induced lust that passes with time.

But being considerate, appreciative, attentive and grateful towards someone else are voluntarily ways of showing love, and everyone can do those. Even towards people they are not in relationship with, and that is something we can all practice more off.


The big problem and cog in the wheel is when people desire the things they cannot have and will seek out people playing hard to get. The game or the secret or some other doctrine or trickery system of inducing a sense of making people chase you by negging them and self-asserting yourself as better, is an effective ego booster for the self but also douchey way to act towards other.
Going back to my original point with feeding on drama, women can also do this, but probably not as men, at least in the desire to get laid, but just to feel wanted, important and validated, having lesser hopeless men kiss your unique snowflaked ass because you're way to good for these beings.
Regardless of the motivation this is not something that is good for relationships where one person is trying to have a honest working relationship. They are just roadkill and being sucked into this toxic vortex of another persons motives. We all come with red flags and we all do our best to not annoy our partners (or anyone else we interact with) but these styles of behavioral patterns are something else.
 

Keri

Member
Great insight. Her argument is that I am not ready to get married because she is not good enough for me, and I think there might be something better out there. I will not deny that this has not crossed my mind. At the same time I also feel like the relationship would be salvageable if she would just listen to what some of my needs are. She doesn't want to do that because some of that involves pointing the finger back at herself and she can't bear to face that. She would rather let the relationship go before ever taking a hard look at herself.

She definitely needs to be able to listen to, understand and respond to your needs, before you should get married. BUT, she's going to have a hard time doing that, because she's reeling from the rejection right now. In her mind, you've told her she's unworthy of a commitment and unloved. She can't see anything beyond that right now and she's pushing you, because she wants you to take it all back, basically. Anything less than marriage, she's probably interpreting as a stall tactic, so you can stay with her for the time being, but keep looking for someone else.

It's a super tricky situation and I'm not sure I have the answer. I think the most you can do is emphasize that you think you do have a future, but that the break-ups have really left you unsure of her feelings towards you and you need time. Since she initiated the break-ups, she has the advantage of knowing exactly what they meant and how important they were. She's obviously decided they didn't mean much and don't reflect her feelings, but you don't have the insight into her motivations that she does. It's actually kind of funny, because you both probably have the same fears: She thinks you don't want to get married, because you want to leave her eventually and aren't really into the relationship. You don't want to get married, because (based on past experiences) you're afraid she's not really into the relationship and will leave you eventually (again).
 
The thing is when I point this out to her it doesn't even register with her. It's like talking to the wall. I get nowhere.

In fairness to her, she did seek therapy and went for a little while but she hasn't taken any of the recommendations she was given. She still drinks all the time. Now she has taken up smoking weed almost daily. She hasnt gotten better, she's actually gotten WORSE despite the meds and the therapy. It's fucking weird

You're writing all this stuff out and you don't see how bad of an idea this all is. This is a disaster waiting to happen you need to bail ASAP or you're going to get dragged down with her
 

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
I'm of the view that a relationship is tested best when you live together.

The very fact that this girl doesn't want to move in but wants to marry would be a concern even without the other red flags. Like others have said, get some relationship counselling but if things don't go well, you will need to consider your future.

Jumping into marriage after an unstable 3 years is a recipe for disaster. No, you're not asking too much by asking for more commitment either.
 

Bread

Banned
some of you are so ridiculous just saying "bail out now!" in every relationship thread. maybe from your unattached point of view this seems easy, but you have no idea how much he cares for this person and how much it would hurt to do.
 

JB1981

Member
I'm of the view that a relationship is tested best when you live together.

The very fact that this girl doesn't want to move in but wants to marry would be a concern even without the other red flags. Like others have said, get some relationship counselling but if things don't go well, you will need to consider your future.

Jumping into marriage after an unstable 3 years is a recipe for disaster. No, you're not asking too much by asking for more commitment either.

Her argument is that the ring is a promise of a future together and if I can't commit to a future with her after being together for 3 years then I will never be ready. She said we don't have to get married right away, we could put it off a year even, but she will not move in with me without a ring. She even offered to pay for the ring with me if I didn't have the money. Fuck, she went to the jewelry store like 3 times already and had the ring picked out.
 

Bildocube

Member
You need to bail out of this relationship - I'm sorry OP.

I was in a similar position as you were with a crazy ex demanding marriage. We broke up right before I was about to propose, bullet dodged. I'm not going to lie to you, first couple of years (2-3) after that were pretty tough and I'm sure those feelings are what you are trying to avoid. It's going to hurt. But you will come out of it, it may take a hell of a lot of time, years even, but you'll get through it. There were times I didn't think I'd get through it, but 5 years later I met a sane girl and we're happily married.

Also need to exercise if you aint doin it already. The stereotypical advice of "hit the gym" works.
 

Khoryos

Member
Great insight. Her argument is that I am not ready to get married because she is not good enough for me, and I think there might be something better out there. I will not deny that this has not crossed my mind. At the same time I also feel like the relationship would be salvageable if she would just listen to what some of my needs are. She doesn't want to do that because some of that involves pointing the finger back at herself and she can't bear to face that. She would rather let the relationship go before ever taking a hard look at herself.

That should be your fucking argument! There is a whole fucking world of "better" out there and you need to tap some of it.
 
Nah, you should totally sign your life and potentially half your stuff away to someone you're nowhere near sure about.

It isn't the 20th century anymore. You don't have to stick with the first gal that gives you the time of day. GET OUT.
 
Her argument is that the ring is a promise of a future together and if I can't commit to a future with her after being together for 3 years then I will never be ready. She said we don't have to get married right away, we could put it off a year even, but she will not move in with me without a ring. She even offered to pay for the ring with me if I didn't have the money. Fuck, she went to the jewelry store like 3 times already and had the ring picked out.

I see that you keep posting more arguments she's made since the initial proposal, and my question is, why OP? Why are you trying to rationalize this? Is it because you guys have been together for so long? Do you find her to be the one, even though she doesn't treat you as well as she should be? Just looking to gain some perspective since it seems, (to me at least), like you're looking for someone to justify you marrying her.
 
Couples counseling or bail out.

You're right, there are red flags everywhere.

This.

You would be a fool to marry this girl. At least for a couple of years.

...and this.

She "has nothing more to give" and you're miserable, you guys constantly break up, and she's giving you a marriage ultimatum?

Say no, let her leave, and be glad you dodged a bullet.

...AND this.

If people love you, they will love you. Look at their actions for how they feel. that's what dictates how they feel about you. Nobody will give you more love in asking for it. It's akin to walking up to a random person and asking them to please fall in love with you. < This is of course talking about romantic love. The brain chemistry induced lust that passes with time.

Then he walks in and drops the mic. Good stuff VW. This was a big thing I had to learn growing up and dating. Everyone shows their love differently and looks for different things.

If there are things lacking in our relationship, is it permissible for me to point those things out and ask her to work on them or am I being totally unfair to her and asking her to be someone she is not. Thanks

I could keep going but I'm already tired of quoting all the stellar advice already given. I personally feel that marrying into a bad relationship is a recipe for a very expensive, and trying lesson. I know you probably love her, but you're right to be apprehensive about marrying this person. Everything you've mentioned sounds troubling.
 

Paracelsus

Member
Her argument is that the ring is a promise of a future together and if I can't commit to a future with her after being together for 3 years then I will never be ready. She said we don't have to get married right away, we could put it off a year even, but she will not move in with me without a ring. She even offered to pay for the ring with me if I didn't have the money. Fuck, she went to the jewelry store like 3 times already and had the ring picked out.

I ctrlfed but I didn't find anything, sorry if it was already asked but, yeah: when was the last break-up?
 

Keri

Member
Her argument is that the ring is a promise of a future together and if I can't commit to a future with her after being together for 3 years then I will never be ready. She said we don't have to get married right away, we could put it off a year even, but she will not move in with me without a ring. She even offered to pay for the ring with me if I didn't have the money. Fuck, she went to the jewelry store like 3 times already and had the ring picked out.

See, the problem is, that's a perfectly rational conclusion for her to draw and, frankly, it's probably how most women would feel, if they were in a 3 year relationship that wasn't heading to marriage. BUT she's ignoring the break-ups (again, probably because they were initiated by her and she's reached her own conclusions about what they meant). So, if you want to work through this, you need to remind her that it isn't a 3-year relationship that's not leading directly to marriage - it's several smaller relationships, broken up by times where she decided she needed space. She needs to see that there are legitimate reasons for you to be uncomfortable that aren't just: "I hate you and want someone better."
 

rugioh

Banned
Her argument is that the ring is a promise of a future together and if I can't commit to a future with her after being together for 3 years then I will never be ready. She said we don't have to get married right away, we could put it off a year even, but she will not move in with me without a ring. She even offered to pay for the ring with me if I didn't have the money. Fuck, she went to the jewelry store like 3 times already and had the ring picked out.

Nah. You really don't want to marry someone unless you know what it is like to live with them first. There is so much that needs to be compromised and discussed and sorted that you never even knew about beforehand it could completely change the way you perceive her and the relationship. I don't think that is negotiable.
 

kavanf1

Member
I almost always say some variation on the same thing when asked for advice about relationships: when the behaviour contradicts the words, ignore the words. Behaviour is what counts. Is her behaviour towards you something you look forward to for the rest of you life on this planet?
 

Woetyler

Member
I was dealing with the same bullshit, but the ultimatum I was given had to do with having a kid. Needless to say, I've been single for a year now.
 
Sounds like her problem is depression op (family history of it too???), and madhouse anxiety.

That's gonna be a hard relationship to be involved in, but you've seen as much and more over the last 3 years.

OP I would compromise on giving her a promise ring, to which you can move in. If you don't get stability over the next year or two, then it is what it is.

So three things are satisfied: promise (nothing very expensive), you move in, no marriage for at least a year to check stability.

As you already know man it's not really about what you do, it's about how she stays sane, controls her demons and etc. You can only support. She sounds like the type to take pain out on the one closest to her irregardless of your support.
 

JB1981

Member
See, the problem is, that's a perfectly rational conclusion for her to draw and, frankly, it's probably how most women would feel, if they were in a 3 year relationship that wasn't heading to marriage. BUT she's ignoring the break-ups (again, probably because they were initiated by her and she's reached her own conclusions about what they meant). So, if you want to work through this, you need to remind her that it isn't a 3-year relationship that's not leading directly to marriage - it's several smaller relationships, broken up by times where she decided she needed space. She needs to see that there are legitimate reasons for you to be uncomfortable that aren't just: "I hate you and want someone better."

She says that I need to move past it, and move forward. She says she went to therapy, she wends on the meds, she has tried to better herself for the sake of our relationship and her good-faith attempts are never good enough. "I alway have to prove myself!" blah blah. "I'm tired of it and can't be constantly reminded of how and why I'm not good enough." She is sorry for what she has done and regrets it but she thinks it's time that we move on and take the leap together or go our separate ways.
 
Just buy her the ring already. Make sure it is all gold because it has a better resale value than diamond, so that she can go with her lover on a nice vacation while you take care of the kid ^_^
 
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