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Jim Ryan: "[Microsoft is] a tech giant with a long history of dominating industries, the choices gamers have today will disappear"

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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I'm specifically talking about you focusing on acquiring a "publisher." That is fear mongering. Acquiring a publisher is literally pointless. Most of those people will need to be relocated or will be downsized eventually. MS can already publish anything they want. What they're acquiring is developers and IP. This is especially the case with Activision, who barely publishes anything besides the stuff they make themselves.
The second publisher they are purchasing, the largest and one of the oldest 3rd party publishers, after already purchasing one of the largest prior... and they also made comments that they would not stop.

So... I think it's warranted.
 

buenoblue

Member
I haven't read the source article, what example did he give of MS jumping into industries and dominating them? Certainly not phones, search engines, game consoles, or their Surface business. Which while a few of those may be successful businesses in their own right, are definitely not dominate. Though I know MS has a lot of other things going with defense contracts and things like that. Sony really wants to paint MS as Apple here, where they repeatedly strike gold and reinvent the markets they jump into.
I think he's referring to the 90s and early 2000s when Microsoft were reluctant to put any non Microsoft software into windows. And if I recall they were buying out competing companies and shutting them down so they couldn't compete. They defo faced anti competitive legislation from the government li know that
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
What's the difference between these two pictures?

GettyImages-1362839160-e1652430878291.jpg


gerard-butler-300.jpg


Answer: They're the same picture.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
And neither should gamers care about MS. It goes both ways, bud.


Yeah, I can see that...I get it but I am not ruling out anything. Both are businesses and will do things to make their position stronger. As for the landscape after the acquisition, that will depend on various factors — we have three major console players here (with Nintendo doing their own thing), how A&B performs after the acquisition and the moves MS makes, could make it difficult for developers; the opposite can also happen → someone else could grow to take the position that A&B has had. It is too early to say anything definitively. Getting A&B could make Microsoft's position much stronger (they already have the money) and they might be able to influence things more easily leading them to dominate the way they have with their OS business. We just don't know yet.
I see a lot of people insinuating that Nintendo isn't a factor in this for a lot of reasons, but Nintendo still operates in the console space. Many of the games releasing on PlayStation and Xbox are also releasing on Switch day and date. They're in the same market. Microsoft acquiring Activision will definitely make Microsoft's position stronger in the console market. They've been hanging at number 3 of 3 since Xbox One. Maybe this will move them to number 2. We'll have to see.

The OS market is interesting, especially when you take a step back and look at it holistically. From a commercial perspective Windows definitely leads there, but I'm not sure "dominates" is the right word. They make the most money but they aren't necessarily on the most computers.

There is a tremendous amount of choice on both the desktop and server side. The majority of those choices are completely free, and of the free choices many are functionally equivalent to Windows for most purposes. I have a laptop running Ubuntu that I can use to do 100% of my job and it does most of the things I do faster and better than Windows. My macbook also does better than my Windows laptop. The only area where they aren't on par with Windows or better is gaming. Likewise, on the server side, there are many options that compete with Windows that are a better choice and most of those are completely free, too.

The reason Windows "dominates" on the desktop is because it's what most people want, not because it's their only choice. In 1997, when Microsoft invested $150 million in Apple and pretty much saved them from bankruptcy, they essentially supported creating a legitimate competitive ecosystem for the desktop market.
 

MH3M3D

Member
As much as I love to have CoD free with my Game Pass subscription, I'm pretty sure MS steadily becoming a monopoly is not good for gamers in the long term.
 

hyperbertha

Member
neither of these two corporate dogs care about gaming or 'choice'. Its sad that most on gaf would rather side with whatever plastic they happened to buy rather than see the bigger picture.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
The second publisher they are purchasing, the largest and one of the oldest 3rd party publishers, after already purchasing one of the largest prior... and they also made comments that they would not stop.

So... I think it's warranted.
I just don't agree. This is literally the type of fear mongering I'm talking about. Activision as a publisher is literally almost totally irrelevant. No one gives a shit that they're old. That's just added to make it scary. They don't hardly publish anything outside of their own internal studios, and MS has zero interest in acquiring redundant publishing capability.

The only publishing capability they're interested in is King.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I just don't agree. This is literally the type of fear mongering I'm talking about. Activision as a publisher is literally almost totally irrelevant. No one gives a shit that they're old. That's just added to make it scary. They don't hardly publish anything outside of their own internal studios, and MS has zero interest in acquiring redundant publishing capability.

The only publishing capability they're interested in is King.
That right there in the bolded is a farce.

If it's only "about King," have them operate independent and still remain fully 3rd party.

crickets GIF
 
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I just don't agree. This is literally the type of fear mongering I'm talking about. Activision as a publisher is literally almost totally irrelevant. No one gives a shit that they're old. That's just added to make it scary. They don't hardly publish anything outside of their own internal studios, and MS has zero interest in acquiring redundant publishing capability.

The only publishing capability they're interested in is King.

Calling actibliz irrelevant is certainly a take
 

Topher

Gold Member
I just don't agree. This is literally the type of fear mongering I'm talking about. Activision as a publisher is literally almost totally irrelevant. No one gives a shit that they're old. That's just added to make it scary. They don't hardly publish anything outside of their own internal studios, and MS has zero interest in acquiring redundant publishing capability.

The only publishing capability they're interested in is King.

Microsoft has plenty of interest in AB as a publisher. If they did not then they would simply merge AB studios into XGS, but they are not going to do that. Just like that isn't what they did with Zenimax.
 

Ozriel

M$FT

Your proof is a lawsuit that was ended nearly a quarter of a century ago?

The second publisher they are purchasing, the largest and one of the oldest 3rd party publishers, after already purchasing one of the largest prior... and they also made comments that they would not stop.

So... I think it's warranted.

The only party that’s not getting involved in acquisitions is Nintendo.
Both Sony and MS have stated that they aren’t stopping. Why are we supposed to be afraid of just one of them?
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Microsoft has plenty of interest in AB as a publisher. If they did not then they would simply merge AB studios into XGS, but they are not going to do that. Just like that isn't what they did with Zenimax.
Activision's publishing capability is irrelevant in this acquisition. Their entire publishing arm of the company could be laid off after its acquired and change nothing. MS can publish anything they want. Focusing on acquiring "a large publisher" is fear mongering to make it sound scary. In addition, the publishing loss to everyone else is pretty minimal. Activision publishes almost zero games outside of their own content. The change to the overall market in terms of publishing if they are acquired is next to nothing. The only reason they are being acquired is for their developers and IP. The only part of the company with valuable publishing capability is King, since MS has no publishing experience or infrastructure on mobile.

AB studios and developers will remain independent to help keep the successful company culture they have developed. Over time though, their entire publishing wing of the company is literally not needed and will probably be downsized.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
At one point in time Microsoft was a closed door operating system in a garage and they played their way into gaming.
 
Oh yes I have all the systems excuse therefor my opinion is more valid. Did you also finish Returnal and Demon Souls bro?
If you had a brain cell you'd have seen my earlier post criticising Jim Ryan and the missteps Sony have took.

If you criticized Jim for his obvious hypocrisy then we are in agreement? Why are you dragging this off topic?

Owning all the systems does not make my opinion more valid but it sure as shit shows I’m not some unhinged fanboy. Kinda goes without saying.

Why you decided to go after me I don’t know. It’s unclear what stupid point you are trying to make.
 

gothmog

Gold Member
I just don't agree. This is literally the type of fear mongering I'm talking about. Activision as a publisher is literally almost totally irrelevant. No one gives a shit that they're old. That's just added to make it scary. They don't hardly publish anything outside of their own internal studios, and MS has zero interest in acquiring redundant publishing capability.

The only publishing capability they're interested in is King.
I think you're getting hung up on the wrong usage of certain words. In general I think when people are saying publisher they mean a gaming company with many development studios. We say Bethesda but what they really bought was Zenimax which had multiple major studios under their brand (Bethesda, id, and Arkane).

King has developed some of the most popular mobile games and has a strong brand presence. That's what they want.

Microsoft has almost zero interest in the publishing capabilities of any of these companies.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
I think you're getting hung up on the wrong usage of certain words. In general I think when people are saying publisher they mean a gaming company with many development studios. We say Bethesda but what they really bought was Zenimax which had multiple major studios under their brand (Bethesda, id, and Arkane).

King has developed some of the most popular mobile games and has a strong brand presence. That's what they want.

Microsoft has almost zero interest in the publishing capabilities of any of these companies.
Exactly. Thank you.
 

AJUMP23

Member
The Irony of Ryan on this is funny too, because Sony has used their position to influence media standards for things like Blu-Ray (and others) in order to ensure the receive royalties.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Right, so you were just arguing some wierd semantics?
If you followed the conversation that is literally what I criticized is people focusing on using the words "large publisher" to enhance the fear mongering, when that aspect of the acquisition is literally irrelevant. It's semantics, but I didn't think it was THAT weird.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
If you followed the conversation that is literally what I criticized is people focusing on using the words "large publisher" to enhance the fear mongering, when that aspect of the acquisition is literally irrelevant. It's semantics, but I didn't think it was THAT weird.
Large publisher is used because it's easier to say than long form naming all the developers... which actually would seem worse for fear mongering, IMO.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Activision's publishing capability is irrelevant in this acquisition. Their entire publishing arm of the company could be laid off after its acquired and change nothing. MS can publish anything they want. Focusing on acquiring "a large publisher" is fear mongering to make it sound scary. In addition, the publishing loss to everyone else is pretty minimal. Activision publishes almost zero games outside of their own content. The change to the overall market in terms of publishing if they are acquired is next to nothing. The only reason they are being acquired is for their developers and IP. The only part of the company with valuable publishing capability is King, since MS has no publishing experience or infrastructure on mobile.

AB studios and developers will remain independent to help keep the successful company culture they have developed. Over time though, their entire publishing wing of the company is literally not needed and will probably be downsized.

Ok....if your point is Microsoft doesn't need actual publishing capabilities then sure. AB being a "large publisher" means more than just having the ability to publish games. They have a significant number of studios and IPs that they are publishing. That is all part of being a "large publisher". Pointing that out is not "fear mongering" and not irrelevant.
 
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Punished Miku

Gold Member
Large publisher is used because it's easier to say than long form naming all the developers... which actually would seem worse for fear mongering, IMO.
Large development group. I just figured when people talk about publishing, they actually wanted to talk about publishing. My mistake for taking people literally I guess.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Large development group. I just figured when people talk about publishing, they actually wanted to talk about publishing. My mistake for taking people literally I guess.
Nah, when it's brought up, it is referring to all those development houses and their storied IPs that have been 3rd party for decades.
 
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Lol blood thought he got something 🤣

Yeah ignore the Bethesda, ninja theory,

Which makes
Franchises like

Hellblade
Psychonauts
Starfield
Elder scrolls
Tew
Doom
Fuck ton other not available on ps

Get out of here 🤡

I’m still here.

The fanboy in you is strong. It’s almost impressive.

Jim Ryan made the comments. That is what we are addressing.

Jim’s comments are hypocritical in the face of Sonys past practices… right? You are close my man. I’ll bet you can’t reply without mentioning Microsoft? Stop being in denial. I know you love Sony and would suck off Jim if it meant finding out what Naughty Dogs next game will be a day early. Try and set your bias aside.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
You're criticising people for using an accurate term to distuingish the scale between buying a developer vs a publisher

Pretty weak
No I'm not. Who would deny the scale is large? Never even implied that. Literally just explained that their ability to publish is irrelevant. Sometimes I feel like you guys can't read, or rush too much.
 
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SoraNoKuni

Member
And he is right, I don't really get how most people from USA just dgaf about deals like that(on the contrary there is some weird fanatism and pride when someone buys something of great value, like it's you guys that actually make the acquisition), there is nothing of value for the consumers with this acquisition, just nothing, only bragging rights for your favorite brand.

I am not judging the mindset but it really is a different outlook on acquisitions and corpocracy compared to the rest of the world, I totally don't want MS, APPLE, AMAZON going out and buying everything, they have money to build something from the ground up if they just try to be competent for once.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Is this seriously your argument?

That the company with by far the bigger marketshare, larger gaming revenue, bigger brand recognition and first party IP + a well established penchant for securing exclusivity is higher on the ‘dominant’ scale?

Yes. That’s my argument. I think it compares favorably to “well, this company once drove Netscape out of business a quarter century ago”.

This was Sony’s analysis of the market in May 2021 AFTER the Bethesda deal closed.

PpSE20a.jpg


Despite the Bethesda purchase, Sony essentially predicts an increase in revenue from 45% from the PS4 era to 50%. With COD remaining multiplatform, it would help if you could break down how you expect Microsoft to suddenly dominate the industry. Clearly, not even Jim Ryan believes this.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Sorry but I seriously doubt any of the people arguing that buying exclusivity deals on single projects, even single developers is the same as buying entire large publishers actually believe that to be the case.

You'd have to be extremely mentally deficient to think that, and yet its trotted out over and over again.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
That the company with by far the bigger marketshare, larger gaming revenue, bigger brand recognition and first party IP + a well established penchant for securing exclusivity is higher on the ‘dominant’ scale?

Yes. That’s my argument. I think it compares favorably to “well, this company once drove Netscape out of business a quarter century ago”.

This was Sony’s analysis of the market in May 2021 AFTER the Bethesda deal closed.

PpSE20a.jpg


Despite the Bethesda purchase, Sony essentially predicts an increase in revenue from 45% from the PS4 era to 50%. With COD remaining multiplatform, it would help if you could break down how you expect Microsoft to suddenly dominate the industry. Clearly, not even Jim Ryan believes this.
Stop shifting, lol. Go back to your original point. That was deliciously funny.

Sony builds up an amazing 1st party investing heavily internally and expanding their talent, MS fails to do so for well over a decade, so that's a negative on Sony and thus MS should be open season in buying up all these third parties and making them first for their own failures?

Hedgehog Keep Going GIF by MOODMAN
 
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fybyfyby

Member


Jim Ryan issues a statement today in response to a NYT query.

This time it seems Jim went a bit more aggressive, but also kept it short. Still within that short response he alluded to Microsofts previous history in the past of dominating industries through monopolistic practices, and that the choices games have today will disappear if Microsoft accomplishes their goal.

While it has been some times since Microsoft was in a position to monopolize anything, I would say Jim had a point if Sony did not engage in similar policies in the consoles space from 1994-?

With that said, it's still a question on whether gamers lose choice.

One one hand, if Sony is excluded by MS puts games and makes them easier to access across smartphones, PC, Tablets, Xbox, and TVs, thagt would technically me more choice.

But on the other hand, it does exclude Sony's userbase, which means that they will not be able to participate, and that can be seen as sacrificing one for all, instead of all for one and one for all.

But jims call out to Microsofts history in the past shows that he's getting a bit unhinged now. Even after he reportedly accepted a signed 10 year deal from Phil Spencer (rumored). This means that Jim is very concerned and possibly angry about this issue to a personal level, and probably the numerous calls for contact by the press about it didn't help either.

But then again we have to ask ourselves the question, is buying exclusive away from platforms choice? Because Sony engages with in that with the PS5 and PS4 recently for years and years from Final Fantasy, to several other games that missed Xbox One and now X. Is that much different that Microsoft? Where do we draw the line? If it's allowed than there really shouldn't be such controversy over it. If the issue is how much PS consoles sales are connected, Jim can end this whole thing right now by showing documentation revealing how much PS sales will be impacted. Otherwise this seems overblown.
I dont like it. I simply dont like the way MS does it. Buy companies and put them on game pass. Its not good. It will backfire in future.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Why does he need to give examples? Microsoft has a rich history of litigation around their practices. They have even been fined for breaking the terms of agreement multiple times so even when they lose they still do what they want.

Microsoft has spent billions acquiring companies like Nokia to try and force their way into markets, so they are no strangers around trying to dominate other industries. They are just not that good at it which is not a defense.

I've said it in another thread but Microsoft only likes to "compete" from a position of strength where you really have no choice but to use their stuff. Which really isn't competition at all. That's the kinda things Jim is talking about.

Whatever your opinions of MS, the fact is that MS does not have a history of buying itself into dominate positions. With the only dominate positions they hold coming organically from within (Office and Windows). Most of the litigation regarding Windows has been bogus anyway, IMO. The idea that MS shouldn't bundle their own browser with the OS was always beyond dumb, especially when Apple was also bundling a browser and other software. The argument that users were so hapless that they wanted another browser but couldn't be bothered to go download it themselves was lunacy. MS never blocked users from installing third-party browsers.

The only legitimate complaint I've seen levied at them was when they were using their windows licensing to control what OEMs could factory install on systems, that did push the line a bit.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
Stop shifting, lol. Go back to your original point. That was deliciously funny.

Sony builds up an amazing 3rd party investing heavily internally and expanding their talent, MS fails to do so for well over a decade, so that's a negative on Sony and thus MS should be open season in buying up all these third parties and making them first for their own failures?

Hedgehog Keep Going GIF by MOODMAN

Lmao. Thanks for clearly highlighting the lack of substance behind your arguments.

Discussion was about industry dominance. Your “Sony invested in over a decade bla bla” bit is an irrelevant derail. It’s like Apple arguing how they built the App Store from scratch when regulators finally force them to open up the iPhone.

Again, facts don’t lie. The party with by far the biggest vantage point in the dominance scale is still Sony, and clearly Jim Ryan feels the same way since he was forecasting 50% of all console revenue this generation.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Lmao. Thanks for clearly highlighting the lack of substance behind your arguments.

Discussion was about industry dominance. Your “Sony invested in over a decade bla bla” bit is an irrelevant derail. It’s like Apple arguing how they built the App Store from scratch when regulators finally force them to open up the iPhone.

Again, facts don’t lie. The party with by far the biggest vantage point in the dominance scale is still Sony, and clearly Jim Ryan feels the same way since he was forecasting 50% of all console revenue this generation.
Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live
 

Flutta

Banned
I'm specifically talking about you focusing on acquiring a "publisher." That is fear mongering. Acquiring a publisher is literally pointless. Most of those people will need to be relocated or will be downsized eventually. MS can already publish anything they want. What they're acquiring is developers and IP. This is especially the case with Activision, who barely publishes anything besides the stuff they make themselves.
So much wrong in one messy post. Do you get some type of a hard on protecting little poor MS? Is renting games that important to you?
 
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